I just joined this group a few minutes ago but would love the help. I was in a car accident in November and the pain was horrible after having two airbags hit me, but realizing 4 months later I’m still completely worn out by doing normal everyday things like working or playing with the dogs, when it shouldn’t be so exhausting. Since I’m so young a lot of people kind of move over the fact I may have this condition and believe it’ll just stop and I shouldn’t be letting it effect my life. I have been dealing with depression, anxiety, ptsd, and back pain for years, and having constant pain everywhere makes me worry about what’s wrong with my body. It’s so hard to explain (seems like everyone sees it that way) having pain in my hips and ribs on and off all day and nothing helps. Started realizing a month ago my hands and feet were randomly going numb and tingly so I decide to see a chiropractor... apparently I have fibro and have many more blood tests to see what’s going on. After the Chiropractor appt I felt like I was hit with a bus, every part of my body he put little pressure on(pressure that shouldn’t cause discomfort or pain) it was the most painful thing I’ve ever experienced. With all my anxiety I constantly worry if I’m dying, like if the hip pain is really my appendix and it’s gunna burst, or my lower ribs hurt and I think I have liver damage, or if my chest hurts I may be having a stroke or heart attack and everything turns into the worst. Plus being so young and not really understanding how to deal with all this stress and crying over pain almost everyday I decide to drink to make the pain go away...now I’m in this hole of drinking whenever I can to make the pain go away or at least not think about it. Which drinking and the pain both cause me to be so isolated and not wanting to talk to anyone or I’ll start crying about it.
I’m Sorry about going on a rant but would really love if anyone feels the same way and how they deal with it or how to help yourself to think more positive. Thank you!
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Lilly1491
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Hi I was diagnosed with fibro quite young and yes it is painful and tiring especially at first but overtime you will learn to pace yourself and push through each day :-). You need to see your GP as the only true way of diagnosing fibro is to eliminate everything else! You might get referred to a rheumatologist or pain management centre. You will have blood tests, xrays, mris etc until they have ruled everything out and then they will give diagnosis. It’s a long road to diagnosis but keep going and you will get there x
Sounds bad but I was drinking every weekend for a little while with some breaks but after the car accidents and my meds were gone I’ve been doing it every time I’m at home or don’t have to work, seems like with all the muscle relaxers and pain medications it’s the only thing to help the pain and my depression go away. At the time anyway.
It doesn't sound bad. I hope you don't mind me saying but if it's in excess do you think you need to see gp as this is very damaging for your liver. Thinking of you. Love and hugs Lynne xxxx
I feel that way a lot, I’ve just been feeling silly because I’ve been to the doctor so many times for multiple things and a lot of them are real, but seeing as my bf does it all the same and has been doing it in the past I wonder how it could really effect me that way. Thank you, approached it all❤️
How it could effect my liver, I obviously know it can but I only ever started drinking a year ago and not till now it’s kinda been binging. But I guess I’m more afraid that if it is I’ll have to suffer with the fibro my own way. Kinda just everything is jambled in my head now
If you've been drinking heavily it can still effect your liver even though it's only for a year, on the liver health unlocked site the British liver trust days binging us the worst. I have compensated cirrhosis which started as fatty liver caused by meds from my drs over the years, then Nash (non alcoholic steatohepitis) and now cirrhosis. Like Zoonie said it will help your fibro if you stop now. Sorry, if I've upset you. Love and hugs Lynne xxxx
Thank you, I know I’m in the beginning just feels such a long time to wait for answers. Thank you for the help and knowing it’ll eventually get better...
You don’t want to be diagnosed with fibromyalgia. I would suggest doing some research into it. There are lots of research articles explaining that it is not an actual illness. The fact that the treatment for it is antidepressants and cognitive therapy tells you that it is due to psychological issues. You see it a lot in mental health patients. I would suggest some counselling. Try not to go down the route of getting diagnosed with fibromyalgia otherwise you might get caught up in it and end up a victim for the rest of your life.
Yes I’m hoping I don’t so I can try and fix the chemical imbalance or issue that’s going on in my body. I’ve been in therapy and seeing psychiatrists for about 5 years just seems it’s more the pain
The physical pain is coming from the psychological pain. It’s hard but you can overcome it. Sometimes it does take years of therapy to get there, especially if you haven’t found the right therapist yet. I would suggest a humanistic therapist if you haven’t already tried that. Hormones can play a major part too. Good luck!
in reply to
Hi look I'm not trying to start some major debate but it's not just psychological it's physical to I believe mines from trauma but that's not every ones case it's not understood fully some people are so desperate to get diagnosed so to say u don't want to be diagnosed with it is not really a fair statement and people with it are survivors not victims we survive every day with this condition and if your a mental health nurse u do have to try and watch what you say in regards to your statements I can't wait to get a name for my condition I wish it was all in my head but it's not Its wide spread chronic pain every day x
in reply to
I’m sorry you’re in pain. Different professionals have different opinions on it. That’s not going to change unless some radical discovery is made.
in reply to
Totally agree hope a cure is found one day until then we need to soldier on in this bAttle xxxxx
With respect JMKaz, I would suggest you do some research into it too! It worries me that you may be passing this old fashioned view of fibromyalgia onto patients.
Just because it has a psychological cause doesn’t mean the pain isn’t real. The treatment for it is often antidepressants and talking therapies. What does that tell you?
But there’s no physical treatment because there’s not a physical cause. I don’t see why a strangers comments should be affecting your mental health unless you already have poor mental health to begin with.
Ok, enough now, you have nothing helpful to contribute so best not comment at all
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Wow how rude are you?? Wouldn't want to be one of your patients! Your comments are enough to put a caring profession to shame! We're all here to support each other not to insult people who are already struggling every day😠
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I’ve not insulted anyone. I’ve just put forward a view that is held by many medical professionals. As I’ve said, the pain may be real but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a psychological cause. There is research out there to support what I’ve said if you care to take a look.
in reply to
Ok I'll look😊and if you care to look further into this forum you'll find at least one example of someone who was breezing through life no psychological problems or trauma and they're fibro most definitely began after a physical accident! A couple of the comments that you have made here have certainly been insulting if you care to look back on them.
Hidden, huni, you are way out of your depth here! When did you train? A lot has been discovered with regards to FM, even in the past year. New studies have shown all sorts of triggers for FM. It is NOT understood why it occurs. As a mental health nurse, maybe you should open your mind to the fact there has been new developments in finding the triggers since you trained or went on a "training course". I agree that you will see a lot of people who suffer from it, buy try to consider this as the tip of the iceberg. There's lots of people who suffer in silence, some of which are not even diagnosed. I think if you asked how many people on here attend CBT or any other mental health therapy, you will find it is nowhere near half. I am a nurse but I am no expert. My understanding of this condition is it cam be triggered by mental or physical trauma. And, that the pain is caused by chemical signals from the brain incorrectly functioning. I know the mind is a wonderful thing and cause chemical imbalance, but to say that it causes all chemical imbalances is ridiculous. That's like saying, your depression has caused your epilepsy.
Just have an open mind until it has been properly understood by the right people, instead of psychologists and psychiatrists thinking they can make everything come down to the mind.
“We’re beginning to understand that fibromyalgia is a disease of pain processing” Benjamin Abraham, MD - Pain Management Expert
Wow - you really need to update your information because you're WAY behind! You need to familiarise yourself with *current* research and thinking rather than out-dated, ungrounded theories.
You might start by asking yourself why the specialised fibromyalgia clinics in the UK like at Guys/St Thomas' and Bath are run by rheumatologists rather than psychologists. And for current information there are many, many sources you can access - here are just three of them.
NHS:
"What causes fibromyalgia?
The exact cause of fibromyalgia is unknown, but it's thought to be related to abnormal levels of certain chemicals in the brain and changes in the way the central nervous system (the brain, spinal cord and nerves) processes pain messages carried around the body.
It's also suggested that some people are more likely to develop fibromyalgia because of genes inherited from their parents."
Medical News Today:
"The exact cause of fibromyalgia is unclear. However, current thinking in the field of Rheumatology suggests that fibromyalgia is a problem with central pain processing in the brain, where there may be an increased sensitivity or perception of pain to a given trigger.
There is a range of likely risk factors, including:
a stressful, traumatic physical or emotional event, such as a car accident
repetitive injuries
rheumatoid arthritis or other autoimmune diseases, such as lupus
central nervous system (CNS) problems
the way our genes regulate how we process painful stimuli
Fibromyalgia may also be hereditary. Females who have a close relative with fibromyalgia have a higher risk of experiencing it themselves.
People with rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, or spinal arthritis, known ankylosing spondylitis, have a higher risk of developing fibromyalgia, as do patients with some other rheumatic diseases."
The Cleveland Clinic:
"Experts still have a lot to learn about the cause of the disease. But scientists are finding evidence that points to a likely suspect: neuroinflammation, or inflammation in the brain.
“We still don’t fully understand what causes fibromyalgia. But brain scans of patients with fibromyalgia show this neuroinflammation,” says pain management expert Benjamin Abraham, MD. “We can see that the pain nerves are inflamed and irritated. ............More and more, research hints that the problem lies in the pain processing systems within the brain.
People with a fibromyalgia diagnosis seem to have a pain-sensing system that’s out of whack. They have a bigger-than-normal reaction to painful sensations. And they often feel pain in response to sensations (like heat or cold) that other people don’t find painful at all.
“We’re beginning to understand that fibromyalgia is a disease of pain processing,” Dr. Abraham says."
I totally agree.
Hey, you are a young 68, definitely better with technology than me!!!
I’m a mental health nurse and it’s a diagnosis I’ve comes across countless times in patients. It’s hard to hear, especially when you’re in physical pain but trauma can cause all sorts of issues for people that they may not be consciously aware of.
I totally disagree. I was also a mental health nurse for 28 years. I can assure you the pain is not from a psychological place & we are not all victims.
I do unfortunately. Some days are worse than others but I try to remain positive. I’ve worked through some of my trauma but I know I’ve a way to go. I also had a back injury which I had to have surgery for which still affects me now.
in reply to
I agree with Bobbybobb, I don't think that you should be handing out such advice so casually when you it doesn't really sound like you know how you could make people feel!
Wow!! No wonder I can't keep up with you!! Hubby and sons are great, but me? Not a chance!!
Because there’s no medical reason for the pain. You can’t see fibromyalgia on any scans, any blood work etc. Anyone can get a diagnosis of it if they know what to say.
I must disagree with some of the comments regarding fibromyalgia as a psychological condition. Yes there are links to both psychological and physical trauma but in many cases there is not. My rheumatologist gave me a diagnosis of fibromyalgia but stated if I was to saw a psychologist I would get a diagnosis of PTSD and if I had seen a neurologist a diagnosis of MS. My history of military service and events in my life would warrant all three and so would my symptoms. If you go onto the NHS, CDC, W.H.O websites to name a few. Each states that the cause of fibromyalgia is unknown but as been linked or associated with both physical and psychological events. It as also been associated with some conditions. For example both Lupus and PSA have high numbers with fibromyalgia. Basically the cause of fibromyalgia is unknown . If was a psychological condition why is it diagnosed by neurologists in the U.S.A and rheumatologists in the U.K. This is a quote from the Mayo Clinic.
Doctors don't know what causes fibromyalgia, but it most likely involves a variety of factors working together. These may include:
Genetics. Because fibromyalgia tends to run in families, there may be certain genetic mutations that may make you more susceptible to developing the disorder.
Infections. Some illnesses appear to trigger or aggravate fibromyalgia.
Physical or emotional trauma. Fibromyalgia can sometimes be triggered by a physical trauma, such as a car accident. Psychological stress may also trigger the condition
Please if the rest of the world does not know the cause. How can you.
If there was a physical cause, we would know about it because physical causes are much easier to spot. The same can’t be said for psychological causes. There’s no test for fibromyalgia. There is research out there into if you look which will tell you all you need to know.
if you have a look at Clauw or Yunnus latest papers that summarise where fibro research is at you may have a better understanding. Also the idea that we cannot find the cause so therefore it is psychological is the same argument over many conditions that females have historically been maltreated for by a male dominated medical institution. e.g. Hysteria having its origins in the uterus.
That aside you have mentioned CBT and it only being for a psychological conditions rather than those aspects of a condition that can be treated by a psychological treatment to help aspects of a physical condition.
From the NHS website:
"CBT is also sometimes used to treat people with long-term health conditions, such as:
irritable bowel syndrome (IBS)
chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS)
fibromyalgia
Although CBT cannot cure the physical symptoms of these conditions, it can help people cope better with their symptoms."
There is a lot of research that has shown the physiological signs of our condition like substance P, PET scans of increased activity, and lately possible signs of cytokines playing a part. There are two tests with a 3rd on the way that could prove to be a useful medical test that would diagnose fibro, Unfortunately they are at early stages and require trials to replicate and validate results.
As a mental health nurse you say there is research out there but surely as a professional you should be qualifying that as there are multiple schools of thought about where this condition comes from and perhaps quantifying your opinion accordingly.
There are many with fibro that take antidepressants and a lot of them that are doses where they are not producing a therapeutic effect as an antidepressant. But there are so many more that do not have them as part of their treatment regime and have little or no need of them.
You also say elsewhere that "everyone in the medical profession knows that it is psychological but some are more tactful than others" which really concerns me. I am presuming you skipped your ethics class during training? On the contrary, I speak to doctors and researchers all the time and they have a completely different view than you are reporting. I am in no doubt that a lot of doctors share your opinion but education and aging out is helping with that.
I did appreciate that you are saying the pain is real and I would concede that when you are looking at a fibro patient there can be psychosocial factors at play that need to be recognised. And that CBT can help with these but this is part of treating the patient holistically and not being judgmental about them and their condition. If you would like to discuss further and share the research you were mentioning then please email on des.quinn@fmauk.org and I could possibly put you in touch with someone from our medical advisory board to perhaps give you a different view.
JMKaz - Are you a troll? Why are you here on this supportive forum?
If not a troll, then your ignorance is astounding, unprofessional and is perhaps biased from your perspective of working only within the mental health field.
In addition to others' valid and helpful comments, facts and links to research, I would like to add the following.
You say "The fact that the treatment for it is antidepressants and cognitive therapy tells you that it is due to psychological issues. You see it a lot in mental health patients."
Well it's likely that as in the rest of the population, some people with a mental health condition will also have fibromyalgia, or any other health condition. Also some people may, not surprisingly, develop a mental health condition such as depression after years of pain, exhaustion and many other symptoms.
You state as a "fact" that the treatment is therapy and antidepressants. It is NOT a fact. This is untrue as many people with fibromyalgia do not get treated with therapy or antidepressants.
I am not being treated with either antidepressants or CBT. Neither would help me as I do not have depression or any other mental health disorders.
My condition began many years ago, following several physical, evidenced based illnesses, when I did not recover my health or energy levels. I have fought my way, without any support, to manage my health most of the time. I use exercise, as do some other people. However I do get a flare up from time to time - like now - which makes it impossible to work full time, exercise and look after myself in the way I usually do when my fibromyalgia is under control.
I don't know for sure what set it off this time, although possibly a virus at Christmas time.
This exhaustion is very real. I had 4 children in my 20s and I went for many years without a full night's sleep, so I know how it feels to be tired! My current exhaustion is on a completely different level.
I accept that as you say "Anyone can get a diagnosis of it if they know what to say" - however this is also true of other conditions, for example back pain. We hear stories of people claiming that back pain prevents them from working, so they get benefits. Then they are seen doing all sorts of things that someone with genuine back pain would not be able to do. This does not lead to the conclusion that everyone with back pain is faking it, just because the occasional person is!
You also state "But there’s no physical treatment because there’s not a physical cause" which is also untrue. My pain is managed with exercise - which is physical, along with visits to the chiropractor - which is physical, and for myself and many others, physiotherapy - which is physical.
In conclusion, you are unhelpful, unprofessional and wrong but unlikely to admit it.
Back pain used to be faked a lot but there is no one claiming benefits from having back pain anymore unless there is an actual diagnosis. Back issues can be confirmed by scans etc, unlike fibromyalgia. Exercise benefits most people so of course it may help with chronic pain but there are no medical treatments to deal with it. People throw around the term ‘troll’ every time someone disagrees with them and it’s very unhelpful. We can agree to disagree.
I believe the term troll is being used as you have come onto a forum for people with fibro and have made statements that cast into doubt the validity of their diagnosis and possibly suggest that some are faking by implication.
This is troll behaviour even if you may not be one. I wonder what you actual motivation is. You have said elsewhere that you accept that their are different professional opinions bt you are unequivocal on other posts about the origin of fibro.
MRIs and other scans have differentiated fibro patients from controls but we do need a simple diagnostic test to help professionals and suffers alike. But your approach is not helping IMO.
you may also want to read some articles like this one mdpi.com/1422-0067/21/4/149... from the International Journal of Molecular Sciences not only for its proposition of biomarkers which will require more research but for the references to other aspects like cytokines etc.
For others this is recent research and requires further validation, repetition and understanding. But hopefully people can take the fact that there is research going on constantly on all medical approaches to this condition. Psychosocial, Psychobiological, as well as biological, economic and aspects like service delivery. All research is good and we need to do the best with what we have right now for people with this condition and not just play hold the bus until we get a validated test that makes the doubters in the medical community take notice when it rings their particular bell.
Just want to clarify one thing. Just because fibro does not have a psychological cause does not mean that CBT will not help some people. Some people have veered away from the likes of amitriptyline or CBT due to their use within mental health but they can be of use and no therapy should be out of reach due to stigma.
Desquinn - thanks for clarifying. Apologies if I have implied that amitriptyline and CBT are of no use in fibro, as that was not my intention.
I was challenging the incorrect assertion made twice by JMKaz that is is a "fact" that the treatment is cognitive therapy and antidepressants - with no mention of any other treatments whatsoever being offered, used or helpful or that some people with fibro are not treated with CBT or antidepressants.
As we know, different people find different treatments to be of benefit, or not. Some people find various painkillers to be helpful others don't.
That's what I like about this forum, we are different and may not always agree, in terms of our experiences and what we have found helpful, but we are supportive of each other.
Incidentally, it seems that the stigma of mental health difficulties and associated use of antidepressants, is not such a problem for many people nowadays, especially the younger generations. A relative in his 20s was recently diagnosed with depression and is on medication and seeing a (non-NHS) counsellor. He has had only positive comments and support from his boss, colleagues and friends. He commented that he's glad he has depression nowadays rather than years ago, because he feels there has been a shift and there is no longer the stigma of the past - so that is a good thing.
Iwas not wanting to pick you up as I suspected it was your personal experience but just wanted to clarify for others.
Thankfully through some high profile negative events mental health is moving towards a more acceptable condition and topic to discuss. Moving towards being as controversial as a broken leg
Your answers are very typical psych "professionals" answers. The answer for everything you can see by a scan or microscope must be in the mind? Get a grip! This is a very ignorant approach to anatomy and physiology.
I’m sorry you are in pain. As I said before the pain you have is valid. It’s just not being caused by a physical illness. Hope you get better and come to realise the truth.
There is a physical cause, it’s pain receptors and nerves being stuck in a constant of sending pain signals. Instead of calming down after a trauma they just keep going hence not psychological. I didn’t actually suffer a trauma that caused mine my nerves just decided they didn’t wAnt to function properly!
Hi lilly I'm exactly the same when I get stabbing pains I think it's my hear but apparently it's muscles not heart related I some times feel like I've got kidney disease cause my lower back hurts so much but all bloods are normal I get severe anxiety and panic attacks to there are so many horrible Symtoms at first I called abulances because I felt like I had a terrible illness killing me and it gave me the worst painic attacks ever but I take meds and am slowly getting there anxiety and depression come hand in hand with fibromyalgia there's lovely people on this group u can reach out to your not dying it's fibromyalgia it can't kill you just makes u feel like you are dying but now you no what it is do as much reaserching as u can and a pain management plan will help x
Thank you I’m glad someone else feels the same!! I know I’m completely anxiety ridden but feel so silly for it. I appreciate your comment a lot!! Just going through the slow process! Xo
Yeah I no it's hard u will eventually get used to the pains now your diagnosed when u get then pains tell your self it's ok it's fibromyalgia and breath xxxx if your depressed alcohol won't help it's a depressant so they next day ur feel worse so try no k it on head and just take pain killers and antidepressants if you need them xx
I don’t recommend chiropractors, although some on here do use them. Have you thought that a lot of this pain could be as a direct result of your accident? I would find a complementary therapist who does fascial release/positional release to treat the effects of the physical and mental trauma of the accident. As a therapist (Body Realignment (not taking any more clients)) I can say that there is a strong emotional side to injury and this needs to be dealt with as well as the physical manifestations, once this happens the results can be amazing and quick. My mantra is: Be Kind to Yourself.
Yes I’m seeing the chiropractor for my back and neck pain, but have been seeing a therapist regularly for years and also have been seeing a massage therapist(same time I started the chiro). Just started this process so hoping there will be more I can find that’ll help!!
A friend say that her back surgeon father operates on 50% of his patients because of chiropractic work.
What type of therapist are you seeing? I seldom have to treat any client more than once, the most has been three times to get rid of pain, with a maintenance session every 6-12 months. Two massage sessions on a foot prevented amputations and three treatments on whiplash removed the need for surgery. I would not expect a client to have to return regularly for years unless, like me (I won’t give up gardening) they persist in activities which cause damage. I saw a client who had been visiting a chiropractor every week for a eighteen months and was still in constant pain (I used to see her waddling round our village) but Body Realignment straightened her up and removed the pain after one, two-hour session. There aren’t many people who do Body Realignment in this country but you could ask Jan Trewartha for a list of people or search on myofascial release and positional release.
Okay thank you! I’m seeing a therapist for mental health help through all this but I’m still trying to understand all of what can help! But that sounds amazing what you do and how much it helps, I’ll have to look for people on my area!
Possibly! Can we leave you the main man to look into it? 😁
Lily, huni, please stop drinking! The drink will only exacerbate your anxiety (thinking you are dying). I have suffered terribly from this myself. Speak to your GP, book a long duration appointment and say you want him to check you over for the following conditions, liver function, appendicitis, cardiovascular conditions. Explain how your anxiety makes you think you have all these and you want a full MOT to put your mind at rest. If you have a good doctor he/she will go through all these things with you and put your mind at rest. I am a nurse and used to worry about all of the above plus many more. I started taking a glass of wine to calm me, which turned into a bottle every night. This only makes it worse though. Believe me.
I was never addicted to alcohol, but I did drink a bottle of wine, sometimes 2, every night for nearly 2years. I think the only reason I stopped is because I met my partner. His sister died very young from alcohol abuse. Now I don't drink at all. After a month my anxiety started easing. I stopped thinking I was dying, and started living.
Once you understand why you have pain, you can deal with it in the right way. You can also get medication for anxiety. A lot of the antidepressants are amazing for anxiety. It's a case of trying out different kinds until you find the right one for you. It takes time hun, but you will get there. Just please stop drinking.
Yes, thank you that helps a lot! At least I’m not alone. I’ve been seeing therapists and psychiatrists for about 5 years and different medications, but the one I’m on now, really helps but even if I miss a a few hours or a whole day I go into complete depression. And it’s so hard to know what’s the fibro causing and if I need to help my anxiety
That's brilliant you are seeing someone for this and meds are helping. It could be that fibro is causing most of your symptoms. I don't know for sure hun, I'm in the same boat as you, I have just been diagnosed, and for me it was like the penny dropping. Fibro explains a lot for me and how I'm feeling with regards to feeling down. The low production of the feel good hormones could be the answer. My next step is to have my hormones checked and seek appropriate treatment. Exercising is difficult for me but I am going to try to build slowly to try get some of these hormones running again.
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