Just wondering if anyone has any advice. We have done 4 rounds of ICSI without success. I have LOADS of eggs, in fact I’m usually over stimulated, good fertilisation but almost all embryos stop developing after day 3.
I’ve had 76 eggs retrieved and have transferred 10 average quality embryos in total, one chemical pregnancy and the rest were negative.
I’m on Clexane to thin blood and steroids for NKCs. My doc says it’s an issue with egg quality but I’m not 100% convinced as I’m only 34.
Looking for any advice or wisdom before we decide on donors. Looking into sperm dna fragmentation so if you have any knowledge about that, fill me in!
Kirsty
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My husband had sperm DNA fragmentation done, because of his age (mid 50’s) but we had that done before our first cycle started
His sperm was fine apart from the morphology was slightly down, so some had two heads or two tails.
We completed two rounds with my eggs, out of those two rounds one implanted and died before the viability scan
We collected 21 and 12 eggs respectively
I’m now 41 yrs old, the consultant said we could try again with my eggs as I have a good store, and we might get lucky. We decided that was a pointless exercise and a waste of money
So my younger sister stepped in who is 30, and she donated - I’ve currently got one on board waiting to test, and two frozen - this will be our last go so hopefully it will work
Fingers crossed for you. The 2ww is the longest 2 weeks of your life isn’t it?!I did consider that option myself but my sister is 6 years older than me.
Have you had the same protocol of stim meds every time? The fact that you're usually overstimulated is making me wonder a little about the effect of meds on your egg quality. I've had one round when my egg quality was bad and it was the round when I was on a higher dose of stims, they do much better on a medium dose. I definitely think you should get another opinion before going to donor eggs.
My husband does have extremely severe DNA fragmentation and our embryos do drop off after day 3 but we also have a low fertilisation rate, around 35-40% of our eggs fertilise after ICSI/IMSI.
My doc changes things up every time. My first cycle I only got 10 eggs and then he upped the dosage by 50 and I produced 31! We are getting a second opinion like you said.
Hi, for your age and numbers of eggs. It is more likely the simulation protocol and the lab environment. My Aussie friend has compliant about the lab couldn’t manage to the blastocysts stage and she went to overseas and had much better results. Personally I had both cycles in France public and UK private. Older age but better results in UK so the clinic skills and environment counts!!!!! You can check my profile to see what I have been through and I regret I didn’t choose top clinic at the beginning.
Also, I think you are too early to think of DE because my cycles around 34 couldn’t even make to day5. But cycle at 37 had 3 PGS tested embryos. Take your hubby for DFI test first.
I was told that my embryos stopping developing was a sign of poor egg quality x
I'm in the exact same position. 4 cycles, 69 eggs and only 6 blasts. I typically get 19 eggs per cycle. Last cycle I got 19 eggs again and nothing to transfer let alone freeze. I'm now contemplating a 5th cycle with metformin or jumping to DE. You are the first person I've found in my position. However im now 40. We started out with just MFI but now looking like egg quality.
Thanks so much for your reply and sorry to hear you’ve been on a similar journey. It’s so bloody tough! Do you have PCOS? I don’t think I can do a 5th cycle without changing something up. I can’t go through that disappointment again of ‘none made it to the freezer’.
I have PCO but not the syndrome (not pcos) so I can still produce high egg numbers aged 40. I've tried low stims, we tried tese sperm instead last cycle in the hope of lowering chances of dna frag. I've tried it all. Money has prevented me from doing more thorough investigations. I'm really torn between OE and DE now.I'm keen to revisit doing long protocol and metformin as it was the only time I ever had anything to freeze. That's probably my last shot before DE tbh. X
Have you had a second opinion from another clinic?
I was 34 when I did my last round last year, also my fourth. I’d done three rounds of ICSI at one clinic and we struggled to get anything to day 5 (always had early transfers and nothing to freeze) and I was starting to come to terms with the fact my eggs were just rubbish. We decided to speak to another clinic, really liked their change of approach and suggestions. We changed from long to short with completely different drugs. We got three perfect day 5 blasts, all testing PGS normal. The first transfer gave me my daughter
Not all clinics, labs and embryologist are created equal. I would definitely look for a second opinion xxxx
Not only that but each embryologist grades their blastocyst differently, so what I mean by that is one could look at it and say it’s a 5AB and another say it’s a 5BB - it’s all down to opinion
We are seeing a new doctor next week for a second opinion. 🤞🏻So glad you had success! I’m currently in that black hole of thinking it’s never going to happen.
So glad you’re talking to another doctor, really hope it gives you some renewed hope 😊
I have been where you are right now. It’s ok to feel like that and it’s ok to start trying to process those feelings but I promise you, whatever happens with your fertility journey, you will get out of that black hole. I’m always here to chat if you need to talk. Feel free to drop me a dm xx
Hey ladies,Just wanted to let you know, I took your advice, changed docs and clinics for round 5, added the growth hormone and just found out I’m pregnant from our first FET! And 2 more good quality blasts in the freezer!! 🎉
Thank you so much for your wonderful advice. ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜
Hi, Sorry to hear that your rounds were not successful. This could be your time! You should stay positive! Unfortunately no success stories from me yet but I’m hopeful one day to have a successful one. We are hoping to start our 2nd frozen transfer cycle in the next few weeks after a horrible mmc and a BFN. These will be our last frozen embryos from this cycle both graded C. I plan to transfer both together before moving on to a new fresh round if unsuccessful. As for transferring 2 I think it depends on your age, prognosis and the grading of your embryos. Also if you are funded I think some areas only allow single transfers. Also have you considered counselling to talk through your feelings? I’ve just booked my first session in a few weeks time. Wishing you lots of luck and sending lots of love and positivity 😊💕🤞🏼🙏🏻 xx
Hi lovely, just saw this post and wanted to chime in.
A large majority of our embryos stopped developing at day 3 and our doctor said that that indicates a sperm issue. Husband got a sperm DNA fragmentation test done and to our surprise (because his standard sperm analysis was normal), it came back with very high fragmentation. So I'd say def get a dna fragmentation test done before doing anything else.
Also, have your doctors considered that you might have insulin resistance or PCOS? The fact that you're always over-stimulated is a bit suspect and either IR or PCOS could be a contributing factor. If you're not already, I would start taking myo-inositol as it improves egg quality and also helps regulate blood sugar in case that is an issue for you... best of luck xx
Thanks for your reply. We’re actually having the DNA fragmentation test done today. We’ve been for a second opinion and thinking about changing clinics for cycle number 5. We’ll wait to get these dna results before making any decisions.Have you managed to have success? Did your doc suggest taking sperm directly from the testicles to reduce fragmentation?
I asked my doc about the overstimulation in my last appointment and he said he was deliberately over stimulating me to try and get as many eggs as possible to increase our chances of success. 🤷🏼♀️ I have mixed feelings about this!
Oh excellent, glad you're having the dna fragmentation test done.
We haven't yet had success but we only found at about husband's issue at the end of last year. Our recent timeline has been:
-We had a failed round in Sept/ Oct.
-Found out about my husband's dna frag in Nov, he started taking an antioxidant supplement to bring down fragmentation numbers and also started 5:2 intermittent fasting.
-Did some more tests in Dec to find out the cause of the fragmentation and found a viral infection. Had a scrotal ultrasound to check for varicocele but everything was normal.
-He completed a course of anti-virals in January, and also switched out the antioxidant supplement for Impryl.
We're just now coming up on 3 months since he completed the course of anti-virals, so we'll probably do another dna fragmentation test in a month or two to see how things have changed. We haven't yet discussed surgical sperm retrieval as an option...I guess we'll see how husband's follow-up test goes before we get to that.
Hope getting a second opinion was helpful. It still seems a bit weird to me that your doc would intentionally over-stimulate you. But I'm no doctor! 🙃 xx
You are doing ICSI,right?So you've got MFI.On day 3,sperm dna gets activated or sth,can't remember the right word for it,so any losses after that is on the sperm.Check DNA fragmentation and FISH for aneuploidies.Do them somewhere else,not your clinic.They sound pretty weird,telling a young woman with so many eggs that she needs a donor.Are you thinking of continuing there?
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