Anyone else in my position or similar? 38.1st failed ICSI attempt. Never been a mum before.

[Jessy1280]

Finding it tough to find anyone in my situation.

I know I've posted LOADS but I find this site such tremendous support. I feel so out of my depth with ivf and I'm a bit of a novice by all accounts.

I'm 38, naturally high AMH with no underlying issues. Most of the stories I see on here are low AMH, PCOS etc.

There's literally nothing wrong with me. I haven't been diagnosed with unexplained infertility or anything. My OH merely has low motility following successful VR last September which we've told will improve with time. His count is totally normal the has fathered two children prior to his vasectomy.

Starting to wonder if there is actually something wrong with me.

My AMH is 45.2

Estrogen 274 (Told anything below 100 is menopause)

FSH 4.4 (told anything is teens is anovulation)

Progesterone 32 (GP says anything below 28 is bad).

Not sure what other tests I can have?

Starting to wonder if my progesterone is too low or if I've blocked tubes.

My periods and regular and I don't have PCOS or endometriosis.

I had 4ab fet and it failed which I just can't seem to accept. I have literally nobody to talk to except you guys. I don't understand how it failed. I know people say it's Russian roulette but I suppose I could understand more if there was something wrong with me and have a niggling feeling it's why I've never been pregnant.

Our motility issue is bypassed with ICSI. What the hell is wrong with me? Feeling hopeless. 😔 😢 💔

[Lolepops]

Hi I have nothing wrong with me but my first round of icsi didn’t work . My partner has an extremely low count ( approx 2 million). There is sometimes no reason that it doesn’t work . My embryo that were put back on the first round were good quality ( and I had two put back) . I was 38 at the time exactly the same as you . I felt exactly the same as you - why didn’t it work ? Why will it work next time if it didn’t this time ? The sperm might not have done the job once the embryo has been put back? I think embryos can look good quality but no one knows what will happen once they are put back . You have some frozen don’t you ? I didn’t have any frozen from my first round so had to start again . It’s great that you can just crack on with a frozen round . Don’t give up . Majority of ivf doesn’t work the first round but you have to try and stay positive . Maybe it worth seeing if your clinic offers any counselling just to help you talk it over so you can get into the right mindset for your next try . I can tell how much you are struggling ( totally understandably) as I’ve seen many of your posts x x

[Jessy1280 in reply to Lolepops]

Thank you so much Lolepops. I feel like I'm 'poor me' all the time but it's simply because I'm not coping. Like many others, I think I'm most probably depressed. I'm scared ill never see the day where I get my bfp.

I do have 2 frozen but I'm starting a fresh cycle as my 3 cycle package has to be used by march.

I'm changing my diet and starting to take inofolic as well in the hope that I can yield more at day 5 and better quality. Which clinic are you with? I wish I had your strength. Congrats on your little one. Shows that dreams can come true xx

[Lolepops in reply to Jessy1280]

You are coping brilliantly !!! It absolutely breaks you - it really does . I was in bits just like you . It was constantly on my mind and I felt so negative like it would never work - but it does - many ladies have proved it does in this group . I can’t believe you have a timescale on using your package up ! That seems odd to me as it all depends on the frozen you get ? I assume you can use them at a later date ? I wanted to do something different on second round just to feel

It could alter the outcome . When I went to the clinic I asked about having a scratch but the doctor ( who has a super reputation and has been in the game for many years ) told me that there is no evidence to support that it makes any difference. He advise we use an embryoscope - this is where the embryo are put into a machine that videos how they developing rather than them being taken out and checked manually . Our outcome was much better - however my partner and I both gave us alcohol about 6 weeks prior to treatment - not sure if you or your partner drink ? Anyway I have recently found out the sample was much better . Oh he also started taking Q10 co enzyme . Not really sure what made the difference but maybe worth a try . You are doing amazing so don’t think you aren’t . It is a heartbreaking process x x x

[Jessy1280 in reply to Lolepops]

Thank you. I don't really drink and stopped for weeks during last cycle. I've started taking q10 again. Last time I only took it for a month. Not sure what I was thinking. My partner point blank refuses to take his supplements. He thinks he's fine and has done his bit by having the VR. also think he's in denial that there's nothing wrong with him and that it's all down to me now. It's very stressful because he won't.

So I'm changing our diet instead to the Mediterranean diet. I can't control what he eats during the day but I can ensure our evening meal is top notch.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your reply and input. Speaking to others definitely lifts you from your lowest ebb x

[Lolepops in reply to Jessy1280]

Bloody men hey !!! Try not to get too hung up on it all as I think it can create more stress . Here anytime you need to sound off x x

[Lolepops]

Ps I’m manchester based so I was at Manchester fertility who are absolutely amazing x x

[Hidden]

Hi, I having nothing wrong with me and my OH has very little wrong with him. We are early 40s never had kids and no one can tell us why we can't get pregnant and sustain a pregnancy. We've had 3 rounds of IVF (including ICSI) and had one BFP that we lost.. that was our second round and we sort of hoped that would mean our third round would work, but it didn't.

I know you hate the Russian roulette thing but it really is true, and just because round one didnt work it doesnt mean round two won't... or round three, four etc.

Its all really raw after your first failed round, it took me ages to deal with it, in fact I am not sure I ever did I just had to start again because that was the only thing that kept me sane - feeling like I was doing SOMETHING towards having a family.

You really really aren't alone. It does get 1000000 times easier I promise, its all still so raw and early for you but the WORST thing you can do is sort of give up or assume round two won't work.. you HAVE to be positive once you have taken some time to grieve what might have been.

Have you got counselling at your clinic? if you have take it xx

[Jessy1280]

Thanks so much ladies. They offer one session of counselling at my clinic. Too scared to do it in case they think I'm unhinged. Also I feel talking to someone won't take away my heartbreak or desperation or change how I feel.

I feel like I need answers from my clinic. Why did it fail, will it fail again, what went wrong, why were my meds changed by nurses against what the doc advised which is why I developed OHSS. Why did I lose 10 of 13 fertilised eggs? Why can't I have 2 transferred, why can't I have imsi when they do it for free, why can't i have endo scratch? Feel like I've been through the wringer and it's only the 1st cycle. Xxx

[Bistbee in reply to Jessy1280]

Book the counselling appointment right now!! I promise you will not regret it and what have you got to lose!?! Either it makes you feel exactly the same as you do now (meh), or (and am i’m 100% sure this will be the case) you will walk out thinking ‘finally someone gets it hallelujah!’

I’ve had full on breakdowns, ugly crying, can’t speak through the snot, you name it, in front of my counsellor - she is brilliant and takes it all in her stride and there is nothing I can’t talk to her about, even things I wouldn’t want to discuss with my husband about this process. She doesn’t flinch but gives me space to feel heard and not judged in any way. You have to go into it with a completely open heart in order to get the most out of it, but just having someone listen to you face to face and giving you the permission you need to feel all of these things and that there is some hope that there can be a way through it - it’s 100% worth it!

[emiliajj]

Hi Jessy, I’m 30 nothing wrong with me. Failed ICSI last April and failed Natural FET June now currently on medicated protocol of FET.

I’ve listen to podcast Miracle Happens really helps me a lot to pull my self together after the 2nd BFN.

You’re not alone. I can’t understand things happen this way too after my clinic said everything is okay, quality embryo 4AA etc. We will get our happy ending hang in there. Do you have embryo left? Good luck and all the best to you xxx

[Jessy1280 in reply to emiliajj]

Thank you. May just watch that! Finding it incredibly tough daily, struggling to even go to work which is not me at all. I have 2x left. 1X4-5BA hatching and 1X4BB. Starting 2nd cycle just to bank more and hopefully more in quality and quantity. Just don't know how to get through the next 7-8 weeks til I can start again. I'm just frightened it's never going to happen and split me and my OH up. He refuses to take supplements and that stresses me out too x

[Hidden]

It really is a numbers game, unfortunately.

I really feel your frustration. I am in a similar situation - high AMH, 36 years old, no issues that haven’t been dealt with - yet two failed rounds of ICSI. I just don’t understand either.

But, there are a few tests/ things I have learned:

- there is always one “dominant” egg every cycle so the fact you have frozen blastocysts is a great sign. I am sure one of them will be your baby ❤️

- you can always do a sperm fragmentation test, even if sperm looks good it might be fragmented that impacts embryo development

- a HSG can test if your tubes are blocked. I had no idea mine was blocked, thank goodness I did a test - as if I hadn’t, I would have wasted good embryos. If you have painful periods or have brown blood instead of red blood during your period then I would do the test.

You said it yourself - there is no reason for this not to work. So it will.

Looking forwards to your next transfer will really help.

Sending love and strength ❤️❤️

[Bistbee]

Jessy, I’m no doctor but one failed cycle is in no way indicative of something being wrong with you. Please please stop beating yourself up about this having not worked first time around, it is not your fault in any way. Like anything in life, even when you line things up perfectly, they might still not work the way you expect and you just have to try again, maybe adapt a little bit, but you will get there with perseverance and some luck.

The sad fact is that most embryos created (whether naturally or via icsi) are genetically abnormal - that’s not because of an underlying problem with either of the parents, but a fact of nature. I’ve read some studies that estimate this number is as high as 70% of embryos being abnormal, and a failure to implant is the first step in nature trying to prevent an abnormal embryo developing any further. We’re one of the most useless species at live birth rates per conception rate, when compared to most other animals on the planet.

With IVF, the difficult part to get your head around is that you know an embryo has been created. Couples who are TTC naturally have no way to tell this because if an embryo fails to implant chances are the women just experiences a normal (ish) period and would never even know the embryo was there at all. You only ever hear about the ‘successes’, i.e. pregnancy or births, because there’s no possible way of knowing about all the failures when even the women doesn’t know it herself. This focus on the ‘successes’ gives us a totally disproportionate expectation that every conception (whether natural or ivf) results in a pregnancy. It’s not true but it’s what we’ve been conditioned to believe.

IVF shines a light on an aspect of pregnancy that no one knows about otherwise - the creation of the embryo. It feels totally crazy when it doesn’t implant because we all think that’s the easy bit once an embryo is there and just needs to snuggle in, but the biological processes involved in implantation are sooo complex

that’s it’s a wonder any of them are able

to stick around at all!!! There is nothing you can do about making a genetically abnormal embryo stick and, realistically, you wouldn’t want it too because of the chance of something awful happening later on down the line, however cruel that may sound.

I’m 34 and have the same background as you in terms of my tests & levels, as well as using frozen sperm so it’s immobile, hence why we’re having ICSI. Knowing the biological facts of course doesn’t make the pain of a cycle not working any easier at all but at least you can try and focus on the facts, rather than sending yourself mad

speculating about whether something is wrong, when you don’t know whether that is the case.

Have you been able to see your consultant to go through your treatment in detail and ask questions, and get some reassurance from them that it is just a case of trying again? If that’s the doctors opinion then you have to trust they know what they are doing - they will have seen people in your situation many times before and if they are telling you to keep trying then it’s because they’ve seen a positive result come out of that advice.

Also, do you have access to counselling ?? I can not recommend it highly enough, even if the thought of it feels awkward or not something you’d usually do. I don’t know anyone going through IVF who hasn’t found counselling extremely helpful and,

again, it’s gives you the chance to talk to someone who will have seen others in your situation so many times before so they can talk to you with actual experience about how best to deal with all the thoughts you’re having about this and how to get strong again for your next round.

Absolutely agree that forums like this are so helpful in being able to vent and ask questions BUT our advice is not based on seeing multiple people going through this, only on our own individual experiences, which are similar but different in equal

measures. None of us will have the depth of experience that a professional has, nor can we easily take a step back and look at the bigger picture. It’s SO easy to get completely bogged down in negative thoughts, constantly questioning your judgment and decisions - trust me, I have been there a couple of times now and it’s a horrid scary place. But trusting the professionals and getting that support is a huge part of getting yourself out of that.

One thing I am going to explore if our FET doesn’t work is whether our doctor thinks PGS is worth pursuing. We’d have to do a fresh round and have a couple of embryos out of it to make it worthwhile but I can’t bear the thought of just transferring embryo after embryo knowing that more often than not they will be abnormal. That’s the only way of knowing for sure the embryo is viable so it might be something to consider in the future. We are not planning on doing this until we’ve had 3 transfers however because most couples have success after doing 3 transfers. If we end up not falling into that category then I think it might be worth pursuing PGS so we can understand whether any of our embryos are genetically normal, and if not then at least we know what we’re working with and we can make an informed decision about whether to continue with IVF or whether to pursue parenthood a different way (there are always other options of course but personally we want to reach the end of the road with IVF before we think about those).

Sorry again for the long post and I’m really not trying to preach or make out like I have all the answers because I absolutely don’t! But if feel like we’re in a similar boat and I’m just a cycle ahead so hopefully my experience of this process and how I’ve been able to cope so far is useful in some way. If I was nearer I’d give you a massive hug!!!! Instead I’ll be sending lots of positive feel good vibes your way 🍍🌈🌟