DIABETES and Heart Attack: Hello every one... - Diabetes India

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DIABETES and Heart Attack

Fatbuddy
Fatbuddy
β€’66 Replies

Hello every one -- I hope no one ever experience a heart attack - - I did.

For details, please read my reply to Get Well Soon Fatbuddy --

I have Type 2 Diabetes for over 23 years -- I have been reading books and researching - a lot for last 10 years - about Diabetes -- and trying to find answers

to why or what causes Heart Attack - for a person with Diabetes. Everything else is normal- NO BP, No Cholesterol problem.

What causes a Plaque Buildup ?

Like to Open this question for discussion here -

66 Replies
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Fatbuddy

***** Following Comments from my other post --

StillConcernedin reply to Fatbuddy -- 31 minutes ago -- September 29, 2019

Excess insulin causes the deposition of harmful VLDL and visceral fat. It also has a sibling hormone, insulin-like growth factor (IGF-1), that in excess causes abnormal growth of the endothelial linings, effectively narrowing arteries.

***** Fatbuddy -- Fatbuddyin reply to StillConcerned

Okay --but my A1C was below 7.5 last few years and below 7.0 for many years --

I thought Plaque is made up of 20 % calcium and 80 % fat - unoxidized LDL

My VLDL - were below limits too- I do regular checkups - including Cardio IQ --blood test - vertical lipid - includes VLDL and platelet counts - all normal

Is there any Blood Test to determine - Plaque Build up ??

--- *****************************************************************************

StillConcernedin reply to Fatbuddy

HbA1c should be below 5.8% with normal insulin levels. For a type 2 that means carbohydrate intake needs to be low enough not to require any insulin-affecting medication.

High insulin levels also cause hormonal miscommunication. Ron Rosedale proposes that the calcium that should be used for bone remodelling is laid down in the vascular system.

Interestingly, the vast majority of lipids in atherosclerotic plaque are unsaturated. They are a symptom of a failing repair system; a never healing ulcer, again resulting from insulin-resistance.

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StillConcerned
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Fatbuddy

Did NOT like answer - NOT satisfied. Please read below comments to your reply.

ALSO like to hear from more members - who has Diabetes and have had Heart attack

Like to see - literature, clinical trials, reference articles in Medical Journal etc

so that we can inform our members to have preventive actions.

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Fatbuddy
Fatbuddy
in reply to Fatbuddy

Okay - that is all well said as poer theroies - but does NOT expalin how Plaque is Build up -in main arteries near the heart. I do NOT eat Saturated Fat for over 25 years -- TG and LDL below limits for long time. First time I had high TG ( Triglycerides ) of 400 was in 1984. Since then - I quit eating rice and potatoes -- and my TG down below 200 and then below 150 -- lsat month it was only 66.

What is purpose of Diabetic Medicine like Metformin ? how come A1C goes down with medicine ? Is that not mean insulin ( excess ) in blood is under control -- then how does it damage artery ?

Yes - we all know that Calcium should be used for bone building --but most people do NOT know and do not take adequate Vitamin D3, Vitamin K ( MK7 ) and magnesium - for

calcium to work proeprly for bon building. Thus excess calcium is converted to calcium carbonate and deposited in areteries -- however, plaque is made up of only 20 % calcium/

Where is the relation of Insulin Resistance to Calcium or Plaque build up.

If all you said is true -- what blood tests will tell us ---that artery is damaged ?

NOT narrowed -- since have no BP issues. My blood pressure always stays low,

as compare to my age.

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StillConcerned

Insulin is the hormone that instructs the body to store fat. It is not the ingested saturated fat you've avoided for 25 years that blocks arteries, but the fat from de novo lipogenesis with insulin-resistance.

Not that I'm likening people to animals, gorillas in captivity typically used to get heart disease, despite remaining vegan. That was because their gut is designed to have lots of fibrous vegetation which is then turned to fat by bacteria in the hind gut, and they were being fed such as bananas instead.

Not only does your HbA1c need to be lower, but normalising insulin levels has to be achieved too. The ACCORD study established that even excellent blood glucose levels resulted in poorer mortality if they were achieved with high levels of medication and/or insulin. That's because, as outlined earlier, excess insulin promotes insulin-resistance, de novo lipogenesis and problems of its own.

The golden rule is never to eat more carbohydrate than is necessary phcuk.org/nice to prevent glycogen becoming exhausted.

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StillConcerned

Let me explain the relationship between blood glucose and insulin. Imagine a railway platform full of passengers. You open a carriage door on the train and let passengers on. It reaches a stage where people are resisting other people getting on, so you deploy more guards to push people onto the train.

The more people there are, the harder it will be for the guards to force them into the carriage. Deploying more guards may seem to work in the short-term, but in the long term the safest answer is to limit the number of passengers going onto the platform.

The analogy is of course that the carriage is a body cell, the platform is the bloodstream, the passengers are the glucose, and the guards are the insulin.

I hope you can see that blood glucose can be lowered by using too much force/insulin, and that it isn't desirable?

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sandybrown

Your analogy, is an open system where as blood flow is a closed system !

In Japan they manage the open system very well, but in UK, H&S will be in the way.

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StillConcerned

We put more glucose into the system by digesting carobhydrate; we open the system by opening our mouths.

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Fatbuddy

Sorry NOT true - I quit 0- reduced my CARBS in 1984 -- long before I was diagnosed for Diabetes Type 2. Quit Rice and Potatoes in 1984. Still NOT eating rice and potatoes -- No more ice cream, beer, whiskey etc -- no chips or bread --

NO sugar or spenda - only Stevia for tea

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Haldin21
Haldin21
in reply to Fatbuddy

It could be due to stevia. I used to ingest quite a lot of stevia - adding it to drinks and what not and then read that one should only consume it in mg, and not grams. I noticed that the herb would congest the heart and when I stopped consuming it, the congestion would stop. I've yet to read anything about this observed correlation or even causation in the literature. What I read in the literature is its link with peripheral neuropathy; diabetics should therefore be esp. careful when consuming the botanical. Here's an extract about the issue :

Peripheral Nervous System Effects

"Stevia contains beta-caryophyllene and caryophyllene oxide, compounds that may depress the activity of your central nervous system. Beta-caryophyllene epoxides may depress central nervous system activity by crossing the blood-brain barrier and binding to cellular receptors that regulate neurological impulses within your brain. More research is needed to determine the long-term effects of stevia on both brain and spinal cord... Long-term stevia use may have adverse effects on your peripheral nervous system, which is comprised of sensory nerves that send and receive messages to and from your spinal cord and brain. Stevia may affect the transmission of nerve impulses to and from your central nervous system and may slow down nerve conduction velocity. Overdosing with stevia may lead to tingling or numbness in your hands and feet, similar to the feeling of neuropathy, as well as a temporary loss in motor control."

Source: livestrong.com/article/4777...

I've also experienced similar heart congestion when drinking water from the Panasonic gadget that produces alkaline water... and later, I read that Japanese medical researchers discovered that artificially-produced alkaline water can cause heart lesions ... that ended my drinking of artificially-produced alkaline water.

Perhaps you could put this to the test : stop stevia for a month or more and see what happens and do tell us about your experiences, if any.

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Fatbuddy
Fatbuddy
in reply to Haldin21

My friend - I use Stevia only for tea in morning --only 1 packet -- which has 2g carbs --

--but sweetness is equivalent to about two teaspoons of sugar. It is natural plant based -- derived from extract.

It can NOT have much effect. Also for last three years I did NOT drink tea --so no stevia taken. It is much better substitute for sugar than spenda.

We all supposed to control - eat less carbs in diet if Diabetic. I have NOT ahd a coke or any soft drink, ice cream, pizza etc for last five years. Once you disciplined your self--you don't get urge for those poisons -- just plain water -- is fine.

To try for a month -- and how do you test ?? what test do you need ?

**** Alkaline water causes Heart Lesions ?? news to me -- usually we do it with lemon and orange slices -- soak in water bottle. How does it explain Plaque Build up --my main question

**** Peripheral Nervous System Effects ****

This happens only when blood sugar is high - over 200 % of before meal - and stays high for extended periods of time ( 2 to hours ) and more frequently.

All nerves are damaged or affected -- for some people it is PAD, for some it is kidney or eyes and for some it is heart.

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Haldin21
Haldin21
in reply to Fatbuddy

What I wrote was "ARTIFICIAL-produced alkaline water" - produced with the help of a [Japanese] gadget, and not alkaline water per se. Nothing to do with lemons or oranges or any fruit that you can think of. So do read carefully before you retort.

What I did was state the results of medical research re ARTIFICIALLY produced AW and this also includes the overdosage of stevia which was found to be linked to neuropathy. Whether you accept the research findings or not is up to you and if you do not agree with the findings, you can always write or approach the publishers and researchers and give THEM a piece of your mind. Elsewhere the stress is on the LONG TERM use of stevia and not just the dosage so there is at least an additional parameter.

In my case, it appears to be overdosage of stevia and possibly personal sensitivity to the herb. I am only sharing what I personally experienced. Whether this has affected you or not, you yourself can judge that. "Wear the hat that fits you" was what one of teachers used to tell us. But your last statement admits of the neuropathy and heart link, doesn't it? Now, if has already been found from research that stevia is linked to neuropathy, then by deductive reasoning, stevia can affect the heart via neuropathy.

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Fatbuddy
Fatbuddy
in reply to Haldin21

Thank you dear -- No problem. Very few people in the world knows about machine - Artificially Produced alkaline water -- or drink that water. I know benefits of alkaline water and in USA - many Indians and young Indians - drink - with lemon slices in

water bottle.

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kkmworldno1

Off the track...though... when i was reading the anology i just remembered Japan trains situation... hahaha....

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Praveen55
Praveen55Moderator
in reply to StillConcerned

StillConcerned

Not all T2D have fat storage problem because of high serum insulin. For example,in Fatbuddy 's case TG has been low, he has not been overweight, his BMI has been towards the low end of normal ( around 19). I guess in such cases of T2D, beta cells start dying gradually because of some genetic disorder resulting in insufficient insulin production to regulate blood glucose. Low carb dietary approach will still be beneficial because that will utilize the available insulin most efficiently.

Your analogy is good for overweight/obese and highly insulin resistant people but is not applicable in all cases. And certainly, it seems highly unlikely to be applicable in @Fatbuddy's case.

I do not know if @Fatbuddy has his serum insulin tested periodically, both fasting and pp. That may give some indication of the insulin issues - too much or too less.

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Fatbuddy
Fatbuddy
in reply to Praveen55

Yes-- I have feelings that severe heart attack has havoked my pancreas -- just guessing - beta cells may have died and NOW I am on insulin -- probably for rest of my life.

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Fatbuddy
Fatbuddy
in reply to Praveen55

**** I do not know if @Fatbuddy has his serum insulin tested periodically, both fasting and pp. That may give some indication of the insulin issues - too much or too less.****

No - never tested -- One time - two years ago - reading from some comments here - I had asked doctor to test for insulin -- she laughed - NO need - for Diabetics.

My question to you-- How will it help identify cause of Plaque Build Up in Heart's main arteries ?

Excess serum in Insulin-- will be circulating in entire body - how does it form a Plaque in heart artery only ?

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Praveen55
Praveen55Moderator
in reply to Fatbuddy

Fatbuddy

Plaque formation or Atherosclerosis:

The exact cause of atherosclerosis isn't known. However, studies show that atherosclerosis is a slow, complex disease that may start in childhood. It develops faster as you age.

Atherosclerosis may start when certain factors damage the inner layers of the arteries. These factors include:

Smoking

High amounts of certain fats and cholesterol in the blood

High blood pressure

High amounts of sugar in the blood due to insulin resistance or diabetes

Plaque may begin to build up where the arteries are damaged. Over time, plaque hardens and narrows the arteries. Eventually, an area of plaque can rupture (break open).

When this happens, blood cell fragments called platelets (PLATE-lets) stick to the site of the injury. They may clump together to form blood clots. Clots narrow the arteries even more, limiting the flow of oxygen-rich blood to your body.

Depending on which arteries are affected, blood clots can worsen angina (chest pain) or cause a heart attack or stroke.

Researchers continue to look for the causes of atherosclerosis. They hope to find answers to questions such as:

Why and how do the arteries become damaged?

How does plaque develop and change over time?

Why does plaque rupture and lead to blood clots?

Ref: National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute.

Recent studies have shown Insulin Resistance to be the root cause of several diseases including CVD. There is strong link between high IR and inflammation.

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Fatbuddy
Fatbuddy
in reply to Praveen55

I have raed -- all these - theories and articles.

No inflammation - hsCRP test normal

No high BP, NO High Cholesterol

Just a mystery in my case

Plaque does NOT start in child hood. My calcium score was 250 - five years ago. My wife tested few months ago - and score is Zero. She is 71 \.

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kkmworldno1

Though easy to say for me or for anyone... you do research for finding the reason for plaque build-up, no problem... BUT.. stop worrying about it. The more you worry the more your mind adds to the problem.. in parallel to all such efforts... do ... PRANAYAMA everyday empty stomach at least 30 mins.. (if not started before start with 5 mins per day increase 2 mins each two days and reach 30 mins and stay with it.) Many other problem be RELIEVED, for sure, if not CURED.

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Fatbuddy

There is No research - that will explain my problem.

I am NOT worrying - never have - all my life I am a happy person - dont belive in god - just humanity --love to help people- do volunteer work - and be happy

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kkmworldno1

good. No god elsewhere. doing good to people and volunteering itself called as 'god' whatever within all. Enjoy.

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Fatbuddy
Fatbuddy
in reply to Praveen55

****** I do not know if @Fatbuddy has his serum insulin tested periodically, both fasting and pp. That may give some indication of the insulin issues - too much or too less. ******

Is there any home kit available in USA for this ?

I will ask my Endo - to prescribe in March 2020.

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Praveen55
Praveen55Moderator
in reply to Fatbuddy

No, currently it is a lab test.

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Fatbuddy

I know about this analogy --read in book 5 years ago. Does NOT explain Plaque build up- even when A1C was normal.

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StillConcerned

I'm sorry that you had a heart attack Fatbuddy. I can't imagine the fear and frustration you are feeling.

There's nothing to be gained by my standing toe to toe and disagreeing with you.

What I'm saying is that there is no good relying on HbA1c levels if they are above 5.8% , and/or attained with high insulin levels.

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sandybrown
sandybrown
in reply to Fatbuddy

"What is the purpose of diabetic medication"? I asked the same question to my GP and my diabetic nurse.

The answer is to take the medication to bring the HbA1c number to below 48mmol/mol.

In my case I have refused medication for TYPE2 and cholesterol. It is in my computer records, happy to write a prescription for medication but has refused medication, the same comments for the last 6 years.

"what blood tests will tell us ---that artery is damaged ? ", There are many video clips, many pdf's, so far I have not found and answer.

Thank you for all your response to both posts.

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Fatbuddy
Fatbuddy
in reply to sandybrown

Thats great - as long as your A1c is below 6.5 --No medications required and also you control carbs and do some activities.

Problem is many peopel - specially youngsters - dont py attention and do not take medicine -- either they dont have good insurance to pay for or just ignore it.

I was same way - even though - mature - belived more in natural therapy- still I was taking medicine at early stage - 1994 - to 2004 - Metformin only 500 regular.

However, not knowing enough about Diabetes at that time- did NOT check sugar every day - A1C was okay - then later in life - 1o years ago, had vision problem during driving and checked with eye doctor. I was developing Catarct and needed surgery. During eye check up- doctor noticed my Retina was swollen and leaking blood.

That was RETINOPATHY - caused by uncontrolled sugar - Diabetes - it was too late - I

I have taken 9 injections in my left eye - to control - retina damage.

Point --is most peopel ignore minor symtomps and try to avoid seeing doctor for early detection and / or ignore taking medicines.

*************************************************************************

**** "what blood tests will tell us ---that artery is damaged ? ", There are many video clips, many pdf's, so far I have not found and answer. ***

Please send links or references of these - here or in private message.

Like to read - research and expand my know ledge --

I beleive Calcium Score or actual ultra sound - will tell --if artery is blocked.

Several years ago - had doen Life Line screening test - and found that I had 20 % blockage in Coretoid Artries - in neck.

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sandybrown
sandybrown
in reply to Fatbuddy

In UK, NHS is good, they write a letter once a year for blood check, foot check and eye screening, for some people blood test is done every 6 months, just the basic test.

Thank you for your full account of your story.

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Fatbuddy
Fatbuddy
in reply to sandybrown

For Diabetic patients - blood test - A!C should be done every 3 months. Here in USA - to get prescription, we need A1c also and insurance will NOT cover - pay for medicine - if NOT done.

**** Here --healt insurance pays for all tests - we do annual physical check up --which includes basic blood chemistry, comprehensive, lipid profile as well as A1c ..

From reading different info- many times I have requested extra tests --

Such as Vitamin B12 and d3 -- Most diabetics need to check that - -

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Lakshmanan1954

I too had your own experience. I

Am diabetic for more than 25 years.about 5 years back I too experienced heart attack although my hba1 c and collastral tests are normal.Periodical test and regular medication didn't work.asking the doctor he replied simply because of diabetic. Kindly clarify when we take medicine to reduce glucose level it also get reduced but what happened to the excess glucose.

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Fatbuddy

****** Kindly clarify when we take medicine to reduce glucose level it also get reduced but what happened to the excess glucose. *****

A Ask your doctor

B Ask a Dietician or Digestive system doctor

C Read more - some where -I read - it is digested and used as energy --

It does NOT spike --means --must have been used in body for energy- as normal

may be some other experts will answer here --

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sandybrown
sandybrown
in reply to Fatbuddy

Another interesting question:

WE eat less and avoid sugary drinks there is no wait gain.

But slowly the weight come down as well.

The question is what happens to the excess weight?

When people are sick and they loos weight, what is the reason for it?

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StillConcerned

I'm sorry for your misfortune.

It doesn't help when the international eating advice still focusses on reducing saturated fat intake, as you have, when if carb intake was limited to about 25% (people with type 2 diabetes may need to go lower) of maintenance energy (protein 10 to 15%), insulin resistance would be virtually eliminated.

Of course, cutting the fat from meat or removing the fat from dairy has exacerbated the problem.

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Fatbuddy

You seem confused ... You the one said about Saturated fat in plaque. I did NOT say anything about International advise --

Also Protein- not by % --but weight of body -- 1 gram protein per kg of bodyweight.

What I have read before is carbs minimum - as low as possible - even Type 1 has benefited with LCHF diet -- some Americans eat less than 25 grams crabs per day and have controlled diabetes problems. I eat less than 100 grams carbs on most days.

Good fat - mono saturated - will give enough energy.

With too much protein - you also ahve to check Ketones and possibility of Ketoacidosis or uric acid in urine.

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ThreeSmiles
ThreeSmilesStar
in reply to Fatbuddy

My target is 130 πŸ‘

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Fatbuddy

Are you vegetarian ?? in USA ?

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Fatbuddy

target of 130 grams carbohydrates per day is too high - for T2 person -- should be less than 100 - and is doable -if have discipline -

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ThreeSmiles
ThreeSmilesStar
in reply to Fatbuddy

No it isn’t too high. It was advised on the NHS XPert Diabetes course. It’s got me off Metformin in about 4 months!!

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kkmworldno1

i too stopped medication... mostly doing long fasting periods... and then eating what i wanted.. may not be good. but not testing now... just started doing some exercise at least once every 2 days.. hope all is well.

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Fatbuddy

okay for now-- long term not good --you amy be still too young -- you will feel the results as you get old

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ThreeSmiles
ThreeSmilesStar
in reply to kkmworldno1

Pretty similar to me kkm. Works fine for me and I’m 65.

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HOBIEONE

One of my very good mates was a T2 & got OFF all his t2 meds. He was one of the longest living heart transplant patients. A really good fella.

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diptasu

I also had it . I am also Diabetic for 31 Years. Diabetes itself can be a reason

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sandybrown
sandybrown
in reply to diptasu

When did you have your heart problem and what procedure did you have, what medication are you on?

Answer to these questions may help other members!

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diptasu

I had the MI in 2016, Angiogram shown 2 blocks, but stent could not be put as the LED pipe was less than 1.5mm. I am on Clopidogrel,Aspirin,Rosuvastadin, Beta Blocker with other medicines for Diabetes

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sandybrown
sandybrown
in reply to diptasu

Thank you.

Do you think that the diabetic medication (side effect) caused your MI?

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Fatbuddy
Fatbuddy
in reply to sandybrown

No my friend - I was only taking Metformin and glimpiride for last 10 years -- before that Metformin only - Have NOT seen any study --indicating that tehse medicines will deveop Plaque in heart arteries

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Fatbuddy
Fatbuddy
in reply to diptasu

LED -- clear opening 1.5 mm ?? Doctor did NOT suggest BYPASS ??

I have heard Vitamin C - high dose can clear artery plaque -- also EDA Therapy works well in USA.

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diptasu

Not at all. Plaques are formed from diet only . You are required to take medicine for BP and Cholestrol also if you have diabetes. Diabetes has an effect of lack of insulin , which affects the whole endocrine system of the body .Anything can happen .

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Fatbuddy
Fatbuddy
in reply to diptasu

Disagree-- "" Required to take BP and cholesterol medicine --if Diabetic. ""

Yes - my doctor suggested BP medicine - Lisinopril 10 years ago - purpose was to protect Kideny - BUT I never took it and had NO problems. Also my Cholesterol were under --below limits -- never took statins. NO need - Find me Reference - material sources of your comment.

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diptasu
diptasu
in reply to Fatbuddy

ADA says so

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Fatbuddy
Fatbuddy
in reply to diptasu

Sorry to say - that ADA --is subsidized by US Pharma companies -- many articles are wrong in their magazines- Diabetis Management "" - if you check BP and eGFR regularly - and within or below limits - you dont need Medicines.

Also- Diabetes -- is one of the Risk factor for heart problems -- BUT not allways.

My question is - How diabetes causes Plaque Build Up -- if cholesterol is below limits.

Please read my questions --

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namaha
namahaModerator

Dear Fatbuddy

Good to see you back into action!

After going through your story and the conversation, I believe your intuition may be correct ... and it is a food for thought for all of us...I thought I must give my comments without undermining what others have said.... All nutritional science..... Not debating at all the basic science ...

(1) But still, We, as diabete , carry major CV risk and it is highly debatable if it is due to LDL, HDL , TG, or high insulin level...Low insulin level.....

It is a fact that it is due to plaque formation and your basic question is why plaque formation takes place and as you rightly felt Ca is one of the main constituent which gets deposited in the arteries along with other fats.( Ca with fat/ cholesterol is a good combo for plaque- Fat is oily and Ca would be a hardening agent and both are complementary to each other and both keep circulating in arteries 24x7)

(2) The basic diagnosis to prevent a Stroke, heart attack, CV event is to undergo a scan to assess Artery calcium score ( CAC)...at least once a year...

(3) I strongly feel that for diabetes , the plaque formation is because of two basic reasons (1) Diabetic Arteries remain in a Inflammatory conditions and it is natural for the liver to keep producing cholesterol in response to the body inflammation and the cholesterol along with Ca in blood gets deposited in arteries walls as a protective measure wherever there is reddish patch/inflammation inside artery walls..... Fortunately you can measure your body inflammation by hsCRP... If it is more than 1, you must investigate and take action - medication if required to keep it under 1.

(2) Why always there is Ca in blood???? Whatever you eat , it has adequate Ca... Ca is supposed to be credited in bones and teeth...but remains in blood and does not seem to go to bones and teeth where it is required badly...why ??

Most of us are deficient in Vitamin D and vitamin K ( MK7+ MK4). Calcium without D and K is just like a vehicle running on road without a driver and of course without any destination...Ca keep circulating in arteries and then gets deposited in artery walls..

.Vitamin K would lead the way and direct the Ca towards the bone and teeth where it is required..Vitamin D would help mineralisation of Ca in bones with the help of Magnesium...without vitamin D and K, Magnesium.... the calcium gets deposited in Soft tissues ....and artery walls....unfortunately people take Calcium supplement with vitamin D ...without vitamin K2 ..it is deadly...Ca may not go to bones in absense of K2...and in stead may get deposited in arteries !

Why take Ca supplements- when you get enough from dairy, meat, leafy veg, nuts seeds?? . Mg is also plenty in vegetable and nuts and seeds ....excess Ca from supplements may get deposited in arteries .. you don't need calcium carbonate - chalk powder ...

In fact in Japan , there were a good number of studies on people with arteries clogged with plaque ( proven with Ca score) were successfully treated with Vitamin MK4 with 15mg 3 times daily along with D ( in case of deficiency) and the plaque vanished/ reduced significantly within 6 months. In Japan vitamin Mk4 is a standard treatment where CV risk is high....

My personal experience .... one year back i had highly sensitive teeth, dental plaque..was afraid to go to a dentist since i can not tolerate the scaling due to sensitivity... there was a tooth decay....Then my Dexa score indicated a begining of Osteopenia....which could lead to osteoporosis.... dr said it is lack of Ca....but i was taking more than required Calcium by eating yoghurt, cheese, almonds, seeds leafy vegetables.... Where is it going then.... Did a lot of research ... and discovered MK7 and MK4.... Dietary sources are hard to get the required quantity.... studied the Japanese study...Researched about the top brand of MK4 and MK7 in the world and got it imported (from USA )..

It is last one year since i took MK4 plus MK7 along with vit D and my sensitive teeth is completely recovered....now Ca seems to be reaching my teeth and my teeth getting minerilized with Ca ..... went to my dentist and he was surprised by seeing that now i have zero plaque in my teeth...zero sensitivity..and that no scaling required even after one year. ..i am due to check for my Dexa and i think i should also check for Ca score by Dec , though i had never checked before...but i am sure my BMD must have improved a lot going by the significant improvement in the health of my teeth....

To clarify, Dental plaque & Artery plaque are different in the sense dental plaque/ sensitive teeth, teeth decay is due Ca not reaching teeth.... Artery plaque is due to deposition of Ca in arterial wall...

Disclaimer : i am not a medical expert. My views are based upon my own research . Please consult your physician and do your own research before undertaking any major treatments..

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Fatbuddy
Fatbuddy
in reply to namaha

Nice to meet you Namaha -- excellent reply --

1} *** Plaque has only 20 % calcium and 80 % fat - mostly oxidized LDL. I had no issues

with LDL. Yes Calcium score was little high ( 450 )and I did NOT pay attention few

years ago.

Keep circulating in arteries - 2 / 7 -- --But in entire body - why settled in main Heart

arteries -- that causes heart attack / failure ?

2) **** For stroke prevention - Carotid Arteris need to be checked - ultra sound of Neck

arteries -- Calcium score only detects blockage in hearts main arteries.

3) -- Thanks - I forgot to mention that too. I have read lot in past and try to take preventive

actions. As part of Cardio IQ blood test -- have had done VLDl and hsCRP -- which

were both below limits. So inflammation of arteries is NOT there.

) - Yes , I mentioned that too.. Many people take calcium supplements after age 4 0 --but that

is too much -- can fracture bones and broken teeth. Must take Vitamin D ( d3 ) and Mk7. In

USA, it is available as supplement capsules. One supplement from famous doctor - is for

improving Bone Density --to prevent fractures at old age.

I STILL DOD NOT GET SATISFACTORY ANSWER TO MY QUESTION.

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namaha
namahaModerator
in reply to Fatbuddy

Dear Fatbuddy

Thanks for your response!

(1) Our community members are too happy if somehow they are able to control blood Sugar with Diet &/ or some form of medical treatment ..... Ayurvedic / allopathy/ Homeopathy.

(2) Yes, blood sugar control should be our primary Goal to minimise some of the known diabetic complications.

(3) But Unfortunately - all studies indicates that CV events continue to be a major risk factor for a diabete irrespective of the blood sugar control- there seems to be no consensus view among the medical fraternity and nutritionists on the mechanism as to how and why CV/ Heart issue on diabete??

(4) However , there seems to be one consensus - plaque formation in arteries..leading to narrowing...what is plaque ?? As you rightly said, It is a mix of Ca and oxidised LDL.... We know the source from where Ca comes and where it is supposed to go?? ....and what could lead to LDL getting oxidised.....

If LDL is getting oxidised inside the arteries , we seem to be lacking

anti-oxidants activity inside it....

Which could cause inflammation - which perhaps need to be checked quite often along with our routine blood sugar checking - somedays, you may not have .. and some days you may have ... Some medicines known to supress the inflammation temporarily.....

inflammation should not be a chronic one...

To answer your question why only plaque in arteries near heart???

It is not only Near heart - plaque could happen everywhere , where the artery goes. ... If it is near Heart , normally it is called CAD ( Coronary Heart Disease) and if it happens else where - normally towards the leg , it is called PAD ( Peripheral Artery Disease) .

Most diabetes have blood circulation issue towards leg resulting in to all kind of leg issues leading to leg amputation...

(1) While we give a lot of emphasis on Macro's to control blood sugar , most of us seem to ignore the most important Micro's ...

Which help us in natural ways to sustain anti-oxidant property and fight inflammation inside our arteries and ensure that we get adequate anti-oxidants and other phyto-nutrients / Bio-flavonoids/ Micro-nutrients from all kind of Berry's -Strawberry's/ Blue berrys, Cherry, Citrus fruits, Tomatoes , rich in vit C , foods rich in vitamin E such as Almonds, Leafy Greens such as Spinach, Green Black Tea, and Some typical spices such as Ginger, Garlic, Onion, Turmeric , Cinnamon, Cayenne Peppers, Capsicum....These all help stronger anti- oxidant activity such as Vit C/,Vit E, Glutathione, Lutein, Astaxanthin, Zeoxanthin, Tocotrionols, Resveratrol......

(2) Argenine helps Nitric oxide formation....which has a strong anti oxidant property and fights inflammation........

unfortunately, we all take lysine dominant food and lack Argenine which is known as anti- aging food. The Argenine to Lysine ratio plays a major role in arteries to sustain antioxidants activity inside arteries......such foods are all nuts and seeds.....

(3) There are a lot of food stuff containing natural blood thinners- Fish oil, Full range Tocopherols- (vit E),

or else diabetes can take a low dose Aspirin Daily...which has both anti inflammatory and blood thinning property ....

(4) You have rightly figured out, one should not be deficient in Vitamin K- MK4/ MK7 and Vitamin D...or else Ca does not go to the bone and teeth where it is needed... the best way is to get your Dexa done ....Ca metabolism - a double edged sword-- BMD on one side and Plaque on the other side....

(5) Physical activity with emphasis on Cardio accompanied with resistance Training and relaxing Yoga and Pranayama would go a long way to help avoid CV events.

Some of our members achieve their Blood glucose control over LCHF diet and tend to give lesser importance to physical exercise...

10000 brisk steps per day is a must.. whether it is in one instalment or two or three. .it is as per WHO recommendation.. to avoid CV event .....a lot of good things happen when you do physical exercise!

Reply
namaha
namahaModerator
in reply to namaha

Dear Fatbuddy

This is further to my message above.

By seeing your situation, I was thinking of doing a CAC Score (Coronary Arteries Calcium) which is also popularly known as Heart Scan or CT scan of Heart,.......though I am a non Smoker.....no family history of Diabetes or Heart attack .... Thin built body with a Low BMI...Not even taken a single drop of alcohol in my life....

My Doctor too had never suggested me to do this.... once i had requested him if he could advice. He said " You don't need it" .

But since i had never done a CAC before, i thought if it makes since to do it once, since it is non-invasive...

However, while trying to find out where it can be done, i came across one reputed Hospital website about CAC....and also an article from Harvard Health ..... Both are very intersting and relevant for all of us...

The articles say :

(1) CAC could definitely indicate the extent of Ca deposit in coronary arteries... a marker of plaque / atherosclerosis.....the plaque consists of Ca+Cholesterol (LDL oxidised)+ Fat...

(2) Plaque formation is due to damage to artery walls which is due chronic inflammation...

(3) once again i see divided views on the heart risk if the CAC score is moderately high..one may or may not carry a Heart failure due to a higher than normal CAC score....such a person may carry just 10-20 % more risk during next 15 years. .

(4) The article says even if there is a high CAC score, there is nothing much can be done to reverse it through known medical treatment.... ( Though there are several test trials done in Japan with high dose MK4 reversing atherosclerosis plaque)

The article discourages people to go for this test unless adivised by a specialist. it is still not advised as a standard test for people... The test being very expensive and you get exposure to X -Ray.

πŸ‘πŸ‘πŸ‘Good to see such an article from a Hospital who is there to make business out of CAC score test!

fortishealthcare.com/india/...

health.harvard.edu/newslett...

Reply
Fatbuddy
Fatbuddy
in reply to namaha

Thanks for reply and info -- I knew about this more than 10 years ago.

Original author- researcher doctor from Miami, Florida - suggested.

Ca Score of 400 or more is NOT good,. There are NO medical treatments recommended by Doctors - they want to install stent - later -

But there is an EDTA treatment , Also there is a doctor in California -does nutritional treatment -

**** One doctor in Atlanta - suggest to take Vitamin C - up to 5000 gram for 30 days to clean - arteries - -- he suggest that - take in small doses - like 2000 grams per day for a week, increase to 3000 or 4000 -- grams per day until you get diarrhea - then take 80 % of that max dose for 30 days --

*** As far as Test is concerned - most Insurance will not cover. It is NOT expensive - Now a days many Cardiologists perform the test - Calcium Score Test for only $ 100.

In Atlanta - we have a company - they advertise on raas part of awareness and heart attack prevention and have saved many lives over the years. They offer special discounts to seniors - over age 65.

I had done first one at the Hospital ( well known in Atlanta ) and paid out of pocket

$ 100.

Also I know about Inflammation of arteries - and that's why I had done hsCRP test - as part of Cardio IQ blood test - and it was normal.

So In my case --total at Random - one in 500 million -- NO scientific ( medical ) reason to have Plaque in main arteries and have Heart Failure.

Reply
diptasu

Bypass was discussed if pain happened for long. Was not required. Probably % of block decided that

Reply
Fatbuddy
Fatbuddy
in reply to diptasu

Thanks --that is probably true--you just mentions LED 1.5 mm --thats why I thought it was too narrow -- but, yes --if medicines help and doctor says its okay - we have no choice. No one wants Heart Surgery - willingly. With known conditions --best to get second opinion and

check regularly to avoid Emergency Surgery.

Just an example --one of my friend - had gone for check up and found irregularity -- doctor sent him to Cardiologist and tests reveled he had blockages and was performed bypass next day. He is out now and doing rehab.

Preventive actions and Early Detection saves life.

Reply
Fatbuddy

Also- I am NOT sure why or how I got diabetes - at early age -- 49 -- except Genetics

My Father and Mother has Diabetes - they both died at age 86 --

One of my Uncle had Diabetes and eye problems -- he died at age 92.

No one had heart attack.

Reply
gangadharan_nair

About 68% of diabetic patients will get heart attack and another 15% will get stroke. Heart attack is caused by coronary artery disease. Stroke may happen due arrhythmias (atrial fibrillation) or due to carotid artery disease.

Links:-

medlineplus.gov/coronaryart...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coron...

medlineplus.gov/ency/articl...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carot...

Reply
Fatbuddy

Nice to see you after long time - my friend.

What you sias is studies - theory - I know all - -

That does NOT answer my question.

Reply
Fatbuddy

Thank you every one - for responses - comments and references to some articles.

I have read most of the information f-or past 10 years and have done best to take preventive actions - including special blood tests, calcium score tests , walking 5 miles a day - quitting

meat, sugar , ice cream, soft drinks, pizza, rice potatoes etc over 5 years -- still it happened.

I did NOT get satisfactory answer and never will. Just a random case --

I may or may NOT reply to all comments - you can send response --if there is NEW info - related to why or how plaque buildup -in may case - with NO cholesterol, BP or inflammation issues.

Today is October 03, 2019

Reply
kkmworldno1

hi

No Offence, please.

Seems you are well researched many things before coming to here for answer. I am not sure you will get satisfied with the answers by the members, as it seems already knew all those referred by others.

If you really want to dig out the reason, what i suggest is (just in case you have curiosity) - again if you not already done- consider all that diet regime, your usual habits upto very minute details to that period, when you were not diagnosed diabetic. and then correlate to any such potential reason that has even remote possibility of the origin of such plaque formation.

This MIGHT give the reason or clue..

All the best.

wanted to write more.. but running out of time now.. need rush for a research project..

Reply
Fatbuddy

Thank you again - YES - I have been reading books, articles and participated --read two main websites - before I joined here -- and I was just curious - why it happened to me --

I am originally from India - and have been paying attention to diet as well -

I have mentioned above - before - in 1984 - I had high TG of 400 and right away - I stopped eating Rice and Potatoes and dropped to 150 -- NO medicines -

Then in 199 - diagnosed with T2 -- and I was taking only Metformin 500 mg - regular

I check my blood --routinely and have perfomed special Cardio IQ blood test and was normal.

NO good reason to forma Plaque from diet. I was also takingadequate supplements - anti oxidents - Vitamin A, E and C.

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