is glycemic index of a food item something absolute?independent of time of eating.can anyone confirm or contradict the following explanation

I will make a controversial

statement.i am not sure if i am right

in the following explanation.

suppose a person requires 400

calories for a meal(part of a 1800

calorie per day).

part of it goes to present use and

the rest goes to liver as glycogen.

but if the liver ( and muscles)is

loaded full already ,

then glucose accumulates in blood

and the rate of accumulation is


ie, above 400 calories the situation

is different with respect to low gi

food and high gi foods.

one can say in mathematics terms :

the rate of arrival of glucose into

blood is more significant when

if the rate of disposal from blood is


white rice is quicker in releasing the

glucose compared to brown rice.

i am not sure of the above the

explanation. that is why i said

controversial.the above given is

only 'an' explanation.

but one thing ... the split meal

always works.i do practice split


my results:

ppbs near 180 with full meal.

ppbs with half meal 115.

the summary:

when we begin overeating bs rise is

more profound .

kindly criticize.

good luck.

34 Replies

  • From the master himself on Glycemic Index

    Listen to what he says in early part of the video WRT diabetics and Glycemic Index.

  • India cratus

    GI and GL has to be taken into account independent of time. But white rice or brown rice, there is not much different in GI, the only difference between different rices are it's nutrient composition and fiber content because of germ. Somehow, if you are taking less portion, i.e. if you exercise portion control in high GI foods, total carbs load would be less but blood sugar spike would be same. So, if you say, if you eat above 400 calories, blood sugar spike might be different, then you may not be right in that case.

    I ate boiled moong and dhokla (made out of 1/3 arhar daal and 2/3 rice flour) last week, and my PPBS after 2 hours of Breakfast was 190! And I decided not to eat rice even with daal now since some people argue that if you eat high GI food like rice with a low GI food like daal, overall the GI effect of rice would be less since total meal you are taking is fat and protein (oil or ghee used in tadka of daal) which would delay absorption of carbs you are eating. But this argument is totally takes certain time to digest, dissolve, assimilate and convert into glucose but high GI foods will have an effect considerably on your PPBS blood sugar irrespective of that. High GI foods has nothing to do with no. of calories you take or other low GI foods you take with high GI food as I explained above.

    Better to avoid high GI foods no matter what! This is however, my opinion.

    Measuring carbohydrate effects can help glucose management

    FOOD Glycemic index (glucose = 100)Serving size (grams)

    Quick cooking white basmati 63 150

    Brown rice, average 68 150

    Parboiled Converted white rice (Uncle Ben's®) 38 150

    Whole wheat kernels, average 45 50

  • dear ashka9 ,

    thanks for response.

    ok i will come back later to your full reply.

    but with respect to your first paragraph--

    how will you explain a split meal then .it is universally recommended.

    ie with half the glycemic load.

    bs reduction is disproportionate i mean.

    i will give figures for convenience.

    for a person

    for 400 calories ppbs is 180 ,say.

    his premeal say 110


    he consumes half the meal

    expected rise =145..=.110+35

    my observation and explanation:

    it will be much less than 145.

    those who are aware of the term nonlinear ,

    what i mean is

    bs rise is nonlinear and rises rapidly towards more glycemic load.and thus the advice --do not over eat.

    good luck

  • indiacratus

    I agree with you, whatever you say is true....half the glycemic load will have lesser effect on BS than full glycemic load as you explained. But blood sugar spike might be the same! We are measuring PPBS after 2 hours, so if we take full meal of 400 calories, PPBS may be half or disproportionate in case we take half of it..half the meal as you say...but when you measure it after 1 hour of eating...both half meal and full meal as you take it as an example, there may not be much difference in BS level...because spike of high GI food will remain more or less the same no matter what...I am referring here about blood sugar spike and not total or half glycemic load.

    Irrespective of what I say about blood sugar spike in particular, portion control always helps. Less glycemic load, less BS level ...i.e. very well understood irrespective of High or Low GI food. For e.g. if we take more (say 100g) of even low GI food like chana daal, it will have higher BS level than we take half the amount (50g) of it.

    So, my point is low GI food or high GI food, proportionate or non-proportionate, blood sugar spike of high GI food like rice and potato will be always higher as expected irrespective of total glycemic (carb) load.

  • In addition, at the end of the day, one needs same amount of insulin, irrespective of how many times one eats in a day, if one is not changing the total quantity of carbs eaten in a day. How do I know that? Well let a Type 1 (or a type 2 all dependent on insulin) eat 300 grams carbs split in 10 equal meals of 30 grams carbs each. He has to cover for spike of 120 each meal.

    A software professional (I know one) who has to spend 4 hrs a day travelling and 9 hrs a day in office with just 30 min lunch break, just cannot be eating 8 times a day:

  • Anup, Indiacratus

    But point here is the insulin release with half the portion of the meal might be lesser than full portion of the meal. So, eating the SAME no. of calories in day in less portions divided into 4 meals is always better than eating more portions in just 2 meals a day to avoid more blood sugar spikes (due to high glycemic load at one time) and resulting into less insulin less load to pancreas all at a time! Also, better for keeping metabolism and also blood sugar level in steady gear. Eating just two meals a day will cause insulin to release all at once after a big meal say 1200 calories all at a time than eating just 600 calories in one meal!

  • So when does the sugar levels get time to fall if one keeps eating every 3 hrs and sugar levels keep see-sawing throughout the day. Load for insulin requirement is dependent on total carbs processed in a day. So day's load will still remain the same.

    Eating 50 grams carbs twice a day meals will keep everything in control. Rest comes through proteins (15%-20%) and balance fat. Why eat 1200 calories of something that spikes hard and a diabetic cannot tolerate? Beats all logic. Do we treat an alcoholic by telling to him drink more? So why should a diabetic be treated by telling him to eat something that he cannot tolerate?

    Eating 10 times a day is good for retired people.

  • Anup

    You always exaggerate the point everytime.

    Point No. 1 - I am not talking of total insulin load of a day rather I am talking of insulin release when a protein or carbs is eaten. No food item contains only fat not to release insulin at all! Now, whenever we eat any food item consisting of carbs/protein/fat insulin release will be more with high GI foods than low GI foods because sugar spikes are higher with high GI food than low GI food. Also, if we eat 1200 calories all at a time, ofcourse glucose levels are going to be higher than if we eat 600 calories! No doubt in that? If yes, you measure BS after eating 1200 calories and 600 calories first within your diet ratio of 60% fat, 20% protein and 20% carb. Now, lower the glucose level, more chances of it coming it to steady level faster! It is as simple as that.

    Point No. 2- I am not telling to eat 10 times a day which is not possible...and even people don't feel hungry every hour they are awake. But eating 3-4 times as per hungry is always better than eating just 2 times a day which will be naturally more total calories at a time which would raise blood sugar level (I am talking about blood sugar spikes) higher than if eating 3-4 times a day.

  • 50 grams carbs twice a day, 30 grams proteins twice a day, balance fat. Works well. There's science to show the advantage of fasting that accompanies twice a day eating, specially wrt IGF-1 which vegans take a defense of while talking against what we talk in favor of -- dairy fats.

    Someone just going of expensive Invokana (51 bucks/pill) within 7 days reducing carbs to levels that are tolerated well. Incidentally, he is a hypothyroid patient too.

    Next in firing line for the same person is Janumet, which will be replaced with MF, so more money saved. That will cover the cost of VCO and good food to great extent :)

    This is yet another fact, not an exaggeration.

    Ashka, issue is I don't believe in ADA diet and any workarounds to live on that diet. So, perhaps my posts may sound exaggeration. Small meals or large meals, 300 grams carbs (ie 60% Carbs diet) will need same insulin for the day.

  • And practically ...what about feeling hungry all the time , if you eat this less quantity of food ...all the time thinking about food only:O ... who can work ??:)

  • karch

    Two meals a day, eating during 8 to 10 hr time window is great from all round perspective.

  • feel free rest of the time ...:) once ready psychologically :) ...

    Its better not to mention the name (hyperlinked) shows the 2 alerts for the same reply :)

  • feel free rest of the time ...:) once ready psychologically

    Best is even stomach feels happy to get long rest.

  • Anup, Karch

    We don't think about food all the time the way you scream about your eating habits and LCHF diet here. We don't have enough time to argue with you regarding the same thing everyday and in all posts. We read extensively regarding our health problems, experiment and follow what suits us and not what might be suiting you.

    One size doesn't fit all, so what is appropriate for you IN YOUR OWN MIND ONLY, may not be suited for us.


  • Ashka9

    If one has to eat 6 times in 16 hrs, one has to keep thinking of food every ~2.5 hrs. It's definitely more that we talk of what we talk every day. It's not about perception. It's all about simple maths 16/6 = 2.667 hrs and if digestion of the so called healthy and balanced "split meal" is over in 2 hrs, just 0.667 hrs respite for the system. And every 2.667 hrs one is thinking just about food.

    No one screams more than people who talk against what we have been talking and not just talking but backing it up with huge number of successes.

    We just share the repeated and reproducible successes even on diabetics with Hypothyroid problems, including those with elevated TPO.

    Do not get upset if you cannot follow something that works, because using words like SCREAMING doesn't befit an educated person.

    However, If I borrow the same style from you, your Liver report is screaming troubles on your diet that you were living "happily" on based on advise from the mainstream I am very sure. Yes, I have heard this ONE SIZE DOESN'T FIT ALL being screamed every other day, but yet no one answers why ADA pushes the same diet to all.

    BTW, it's not just appropriate in "OUR OWN MIND ONLY" as the number of successes globally prove it and specifically in India proves it.

    BTW, Who is this "WE"?

  • Anup

    I am tired of your responses, Anup to be frank enough. We don't want to see your repeated and reproducible successes as you have already shown us enough.

    Don't worry about my thyroid, pancreas or liver, I will take care of it.

    If I can't follow the diet suggested by you for any reason, it is none of your business to advise me the same thing again and again

    WE meaning others on this forum all of whom has got tired of you and your team's responses which are nonetheless REPEATED multiple times.

    Sorry, I am very straightforward person to tell you directly what I feel. Just a month and really enough and enough from you. I understood your diet and everything you suggest and advise but if I am not willing to follow if it doesn't suit me then please leave me alone.

    thanks for yr co-operation.

  • Ashka9

    Can we not stick to the topic instead of getting into this jibes?

    Doesn't eating every 2.667 hrs amount to thinking about food all the time? That was the core. I didn't even advise you anything in my last reply.

    If people use words like SCREAMING in their replies, I think I can respond not just with opinions but with some simple maths.

    I am not forcing anyone here into anything. But, just as everyone else produces a contrarian view to what I talk, even I have the right to present a contrarian view, without getting hysterical. There's no team talking. Talking as an individual and not SCREAMING as it is alleged.

    There are many posts which have been repeated many times not just in replies but even as independent threads by many people. So, everyone has been doing it and I don't post repeated threads about the same topic, so that's why just have 94 threads whereas many have crossed 200+ threads.

  • all the time thinking about food only:O ... who can work ??


  • खाण्या साठी जन्म आपुला .....

  • अन्न हे परब्रह्म आहे.... आणि त्या ब्रह्मा बद्दल अखंड चिंतन असणे हे योगी माणसाचे लक्षण आहे असे नाही का वाटत आपल्याला ???shrisamarth

  • खरा योगी अन्नाकडे डोळे लाऊन बसलेला नसतो. :)

  • चरायचे सदा सर्वदा :D

  • चरणे /movement हे सजीवांचे प्रमुख लक्षण आहे....

  • इथे जे अपेक्षित आहे (on thread) ते योग्य नाही. दिवसातून ५-६ वेळा खाणे.

  • अरे बाबा जाऊ द्या ना... कोणाला नसेल पटत तर का जुलमाचा राम राम ???

  • मी कुणाच्याच मागे लागलेलो नाही त्यासाठी. :)

  • मागे लागणे :d

  • :D

  • Ashka9

    You are very right. There are different systems for digestion of carbohydrates, proteins and fats. So once the food we eat liquifies in chyme the digestive juices act on food. And absorption starts. Carbs are easily digested and absorbed. Raising bs.

  • Indiacratus

    Yes, I understand linear and non-linear equations for that matter....since I am a science student and a Pharmacy graduate as well.

    GI (Glycemic Index) tells about how FAST a particular food converts into sugar and GL (glycemic load) is a total amount of carbohydrate in a given serving. And you have to take into account both GI and GL while choosing foods because for e.g. Water melon has a high GI index of 72 but total GL of only 7.2 for 150 g (1 cup) of serving. Since GI of <55 is the best and GL <10 is the best for diabetics, I do eat watermelon in season of summer though it's high GI. Eat mangoes even...which has low GI of 51 and moderate GL of 12.8 for 1 cup i.e 150 g. Even if you overeat watermelon a bit or mangoes sometimes, it won't totally rise your above the range recommended for PPBS.

  • dear ashka,

    yours is sound reasoning consistent with the experimental results on gi.

    but there are two points i like to point out.

    1]it is not the peak levels of bs that matters.

    it is the area under the curve [AUC].that matters in diabetes.

    auc will collapse rapidly if the glycemic load is halved.

    [now here is a point from mathematics again...

    in many experiments scientific people omit or discard an isolated peak before an integration or summation .]

    if auc is not the basic issue then a1c cannot signify the complications in diabetes.but a1c is placed as the first test in around 2012

    so [by contra positive ]auc alone is significant.

    2)secondly--the total integral representing the area under the curve is not at all related to the spikes.

    it is mainly related to the curvature or slope of the curve ---

    in other words how quickly the glucose time curve fly down towards the -X axis.

    3]i have seen and my memory is sharp about it--

    the insulin graph follows closely to the glucose curve.

    but this is in a healthy man...

    this is not the case in a diabetic

    here we come close to the point i raised.

    glucose disposal from blood is impaired but glucose arrival is not impaired in a diabetic .

    if we deliberately impair[=reduce] it by taking less food.

    diabetes now [=insufficient insulin] is unable to tide over and reach

    a gulf between the two aucs.

    in common sense parkour

    the diabetic has less maximum insulin arrival rate and we have arranged less auc for glucose curve.

    hope i have not confused you.

    mine was only a proposition.that below the calorie limit the two aucs walk together!!

    i am a man from the maths physics scheme and i am only happy to be corrected.

    good luck.

  • dear ashka9 ,

    i will add another point .

    f the sum of the two aucs in the two half meal period is equal to the auc in full meal period ,

    then the world advice to have many small meals is just ridiculous.

    hence the basis of my hypothesis and the

    post. some where i lost track it looks ,though i attempt a perfect chain reasoning in general..

    good luck

  • Indiacratus.

    In the quoted example of calorie limited food, split meals do help in controlling blood sugar spikes within the normal range as long as the carb portion of the diet also gets splits simultaneously. There are four factors influencing this phenomenon

    1.Glycemic Index. It refers and catogarises different food groups based on their carb portion per gram of this food.

    2.Glycemic load: It is a measure of total amount of carbs in a particular quantity of food eaten per serving i.e., Gly index multiplied by number of grams per serving.

    3 Insulin index: It refers to the body’s reaction to the carb portion of the food to release insulin to control the blood sugar to keep it within the range.

    4. Satiety index: It is total quantity of food eaten in terms of number of grams to satisfy the needs of hunger .irrespective of whether it is carb only or includes other non carb food.

    In the case of quoted example of 400 kcl ,if one sticks to 60c:20P;20F, you split the meal into half you automatically split the carb portion into half and hence half of blood sugar of ingested food.

    The only controversy is how the body responds whether it also reduces the production of insulin to half or it helps to neutralize this totally.

    The other controversy is what happens to other non carb portion whether it also produces blood sugar or not whether one can eat without reference to calorie limit of 400kcl and feel it has no effect on blood sugar spike..

  • dear ragivrao ji and ashka9 ,

    in splitting meals ,

    automatically carbs also get split.

    if it is the breakfast,

    it is better to take the protein portion first and push the carbs for the second half of break fast ----

    so that we get the advantages of what they call the ' second meal effect '

    'The only controversy is how the body responds whether it also reduces the production of insulin to half or it helps to neutralize this totally.'


    the body does not react to anything other than glucose as far as insulin production is concerned.cells in pancreatic surface monitor glucose level in blood and open some gates in beta cells to let insulin out.everything else intact.

    'whether one can eat without reference to calorie limit of 400kcl and feel it has no effect on blood sugar spike.'.


    blood sugar can rise via protein very slowly ..

    within normal amounts ... protein does not count at all for glucose in blood---

    beyond normal requirements of protein

    some how it has to be thrown out of body, because it cannot be stored inside .

    so its nitrogen part is removed and thrown out through the urine.

    the nitrogen free carbon skeleton now converted to glycogen.

    [and not glucose , because the process now is taking place here right inside liver..this is result i read in a twentieth century research paper ---no idea as to latest biochemistry,.]

    good luck

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