beware of health damaging advises from forums.forums are not to be chosen for a primary can only be used for certain type ---

of doubts not available immediately from a text book level web article.

people giving testimony in a discussion are not to trusted with out scrutiny.

one has to sympathize with those who take a primary learning from

unauthentic web sites , forums--

in my opinion

either accept the learning of the learned scientists

which is depicted in articles of the ADA, mayo clinic, the Joslin institute ,the Harvard medical school,

and for any change from the us based institutions if any. etc.kindly look in

NHS choices UK,THE NIN Hyderabad for nutrition , the WHO, the EASD

[these institutions have a text book status and more .]


i do not mean people should not go through isolated research papers.

quite often they can be research just published for a promotion in professional service -where a phd and published papers are a must.

recently in Cochin university[it was in news paper]

a research scholar could not explain his own thesis when asked about ,

by the

assessing committee--obviously it was cooked up by somebody else.

the progress of a discovery is like this:

from time immemorial:

first it appears in a science journal or university paper.

it goes round the world.

then if other people are in agreement, they repeat the experiment

and if found correct it is accepted in course of time and becomes a piece of scientific knowledge. then it appears in text books .

otherwise it goes into oblivion , the waste bin of history.many researches 'at the threshold of a phenomenon' suffer from this.

for example if some one finds high cholesterol in blood

causes atherosclerosis[arterial wall sticking of lipids]

it leads to reduced blood flow--damages obviously.

but this may not happen to everybody in the same degree of deposition

at the walls of blood vessels.

but how to give general advice to people ?

the advice:

keep dietary cholesterol down to the minimum .

since cholesterol if the body wants it can synthesize is not necessary in diet.

the advice cannot be :

eat any amount of cholesterol but keep an eye on atherosclerosis--that is scanning the arteries every week by special methods .

advice is tailored with a principle-"to be on the safer side'.

i mean :learning from the forum is OK but don't get intoxicated with it.

leave it to the scrutiny of the sage as and when opportunity arises..the sages of science are from the laboratories of the universities.and those web pages are the text book level web pages.

otherwise get health damaged by some richardson or parkinson telling--

carbohydrate is carcinogenic,

and insulin is enemy of a diabetic.

all cells require glucose even cancer cells, otherwise how can it get atp and undergo the rapid mitosis ;

deprive it of glucose , mitosis also will be stopped.

set the house on fire to kill the rat.great wisdom.!!

good luck

33 Replies

  • EASD means - European Association for the Study of Diabetes.

    this association and the ADA have a consensus committee also to study and settle the differences in recommendations.

    we in india generally go for WHO recommendations.[?]

    good luck

  • yes.Forums have become considerably notorious for half baked un supported opinions without responsibility or merit .Many a times thee opinions are speculative .

  • When science cannot be understood, it becomes speculative for some. ADA's science is full of speculations as it hasn't helped reduce diabetes even by 0.000000001% and they force diabetics to feel happy with A1C of 7+ and all complications of maintaining such high A1C is passed on to a generic (and WRONG) statement -- diabetes is a progressive disorder.

    And for some, repeatedly quoting ADA/AMA/AHA is science.

    Aim for A1C of 5.6 or lower and diabetes is not a progressive disorder. These associations want it to be progressive so that truckload of drugs can sell.

    Don't know why guys and gals from healthcare industry or their spokespersons feel so insecure at success of LCHF diet globally. Instead of providing solutions and following up on their suggestions they shoot the messenger. :)

    I am sure people who come to forums have the intelligence to differentiate. That's why 12 and 19 followers in three years for shooting the messnger as against 147 in less than a year for helping 600+ diabetics with great numbers on lower drugs and the LCHF clan keeps growing now :)

  • Sir some peoples have the tendency to tell," your hare have two horns only, but mine have four horns"

  • Some here seek just attention.If that can come by abusing and insulting ladies also, they won't mind doing that. Even if that means speak lies they won't mind doing that.

    Some have desperately been trying since 2013 to influence diabetics here to not switch to LCHF, but aren't succeeding.

  • thanks raoji

  • Thanks Indiacratus for this post. Very thoughtful and informative! I feel that the health forums are a very good platform for people suffering from similar ailments and conditions to interact with one another, learn from other's experience, provide and seek emotional support, etc. However, these forums should not be looked at as a replacement to the doctor's advice. A human's body is extremely complex!! What may work for you, might not work for me, even if we are suffering from the same ailment. Maybe by blindly taking medical advice through these forums or other's experiences, one might end up harming oneself more!!

    I am from the Healthcare industry and I feel that one should not try to address medical conditions casually as there might not be any shortcuts in such cases.

  • Science has no business in telling what to eat. It's science which has ruined human health after FUDGED study of Ancel Keys. Sydney diet heart study lauding PUFA (to favor their industrial vegetable oil industry) through a study which was later found to be FUDGED.

    Yes, I have heard this argument often that everyone is different. But, diet recommended is same to all. I have seen diet charts of cancer, diabetics, organ transplant patients from 5 star Ambani hospital in Mumbai. All look same as if they are computer generated.

    If everyone is different then why the SAME DIET and same drugs to all for same issue? Diet should have been different too. No? Why the same old crap 60% CARBS to all?

  • Hi Anup - we understand where you are coming from, but diet is just a part of so many pieces of information getting exchanged. For all we know, even a particular diet can also have certain kind of side-effects on one's body, but lets avoid that debate.

    The worry is when members start advising one another on medicines, procedures to be taken or not. The idea of this post is to make people aware that every advice received / given should be weighed carefully before one start practicing it. This has to be looked into a more holistic manner than just debating over drugs and diets.

  • BTW who is this "WE". Are you part of some group operating in tandem here?

    And why do you think that holistic (or whatever) approach can only be understood by going to classrooms and passing exams? Science is not just about doing what pleases the drug industry.

    Also, we on LCHF diet love to be told what is wrong where instead of subjective opinions. If We have diabetics from drug industry who are the ones who train field staff to educate doctors on a given drug, why should their knowledge and experience not be used if available instead of running to clinic every time? After all they are the ones who EDUCATE doctors too on DRUGS.

    Yes, when we on LCHF talk diet, we are talking at holistic level because human body is not to be treated as dumping ground for drugs just because few pharma funded associations around the world want it so.

    And, most surprising part here is, those who have been dishing out these advises of ignoring forums, never want to discuss the MEDICAL REPORTS which are presented as SCIENCE. They just believe in the same ol' scaremongering based on NO SCIENCE but OPINIONS or FUDGED Studies funded by the industry:

    " It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgement of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine. "

    Dr Marcia Angell

    I am sure no science can cure the greed for more money.

  • yes.thanks dear ravleen and mr. rao ,

    i am happy to note you have grasped the essence and purpose of my post

    good luck.

  • your name is shown as hidden can you send me a personal message?

  • Hidden means Account deleted. So no more PM possible now :)

  • One team member less apparently.

  • The forum is only for sharing the knowledge from one another about diabetics or HBP or any other diseases. Each member has to post his opinion is good the question of misguiding is not considered . The mostly members maybe more than 25 years and most of them may more than 50 also. They must thinking capacity and taken their own way to control the guidance.

    Any member if he guides his experience with blood test report which seen satisfactory and his dietsystem if any one agrred he may followed noobjection by the other members .

    In this forum ADA/WHO and other guidlines followed persons and also LCHF and also LW mash diet followers have and they controled their diabetic in their own way

    So there is no restriction to be binded to any perwson whatever he like in the interest of other persons and forum is good and it should not be resricted .

    Onlyto be restricted is some ofthe members have used this forum as sales of their products by the name of Ayurvedic medicine. They have not share any detail of the medicine name content and cost and how it work out ?

    the members must care about these persons. In Ayurveda has very good medicine but the followed members must seen the good company product and if they want to it they may followed with guidance of Doctors .

    The fake members who will became member and post it and some time they have closed their accounts also

    The forum member may be careful about these advetrtise posts.

  • And, there are some who for three years have not disclosed their diet and spent all thei time just abusing and insulting diabetics on LCHF diet. Not once have the disclosed what they eat and how they control their diabetes. Wonder if some of them are even non diabetic pretending to be diabetic.

  • You keep repeating this, forgetting that you are also part of the forum. So, by your logic, why should anyone even follow your advise. Just because you quote the drug lobby associations and bodies? I think there are three or four similar posts from you in the past and it didn't gain traction?

    How much donations does ADA get from Drug companies and WHY?

    If they get BILLIONS from DRUG companies whose interest will they protect?

    Merely quoting ADA / AMA / AHA et al makes no sense. We know where they get their money from and whose interest they protect.

    How much diabetes has ADA reduced with their recommendations? Even 0.0000000001%?

    I know some guys are terribly upset with the success of LCHF diet and that's hurting the diabetic drug sales :)

    LOL on cholesterol. Even Ancel Keys agreed (unwillingly) that dietary cholesterol has no relation with serum cholesterol. So, same old Cholesterol scare being used to CONFUSE rather than CONVINCE.

    As they say, when you can't CONVINCE them, CONFUSE them. But guys are intelligent. Even a MD doctor in Mysore is managing her Type 1 10 year old daughter on LCHF and she has all praises now. Why are these associations needed when one spends 5.5 years in training. Is their any ombudsman who overlooks for corruption in these associations? In engineering we don't follow any associations so why for medicine when all associations survive on HUGE donations from drug industry.

    We believe in CONVINCING through DATA and not CONFUSING through OPINIONS. I am sure people who come to forums have the intelligence to differentiate. That's why 12 and 19 followers in three years for shooting the messenger as against 147 in less than a year for helping 600+ diabetics with great numbers on lower drugs and the LCHF clan keeps growing now.

    Millions are not fools to have ditched ADA advise and are healthier on far less drugs. Where is the HEALTH DAMAGE? Any data? Or Just an OPINION. Pl, discuss with DATA, if you have one. I know deaths is US due to prescription drugs is more than car accident and murder deaths taken together. :)

    Have you checked ADA Community forum?

  • If everyone follows the mainstream recommend diet then this forum is not needed. Just follow the advise

    However if some contrary view exists then we can consider it.

    I am from the industry selling Cardiac medications incl statins.

    I know a few medical practitioners who don't recommend statins as they believe that high cholesterol is good.

    Can anyone believe this?

  • Sometimes I wonder how many people on this forum are fronting for drug industry by pretending to be diabetic as they haven't disclosed their diet in three years+ time. All they have done is bashed something that has now helped over 600+ Indian diabetics that you and me know of.

    Some don't talk anything except EAT Drugs, Eat More Drugs and then more drugs. :)

    Smoking in the US declined through cold turkey method. But, ever since nicorette (or their cousins) arrived on scene, it isn't declining with same pace. But, some guys here will say take more nicorette and increase the chances of suicidal tendency and then take a drug to neutralize the suicidal tendency. Why? Just because some Association that promotes drugs says it. Pathetic!

  • Shashikantiyengar Sir,

    Yoor opinion that some drs' support high cholesterol is interesting reading.

  • Read book on Cholesterol SCAM by Uffe Ravenskov, the doctor credited for introducing the albumin/creatinine clearance ratio as a more accurate way to measure proteinuria:

    He is not just some guy with a degree round the corner :)

    Incidentally, he is also practiced in Sweden, the country from where LCHF movement in its current form started and we follow and preach the stricter version -- 20% CARBS -- of that.

    Alternatively, you can also go thru book of Dr Malcom Kendrick -- the Great Cholesterol Con. We believe such doctors more than anyone else and read their work closely as they are not getting "grants" from the drug industry to "doctor" data :)

  • LCHF is not Atkins diet or Paleo diet where a lot of non veg is recommended

    In LCHF even a vegetarian like me is comfortable

    I can give a lot of menus for Breakfast and other meals.

    What I take.!!

  • Those who don't know LCHF, mix it up with Atkins :)

    When that fails to hold ground, some start saying that we are not eating LCHF. We have just reduced carbs by 50% (from NIN's level of 80) and increased some protein and fat. They ignore when we quote 20% CARBS as number.

    BTW, I am surprised how NIN says that Indians are eating 80% CARBS as quoted by someone. To eat 80% carbs one will have to eat rice with sugar or glucose water and not daal :)

  • Thank you Shree Shashikantiyengar, for your support for a vegetatrian/vegan trying to follow LCHF diet.

    thank you all in this forum trying to help me cope with my diet and my health.

    Being a south Indian, I know lot of veg dishes. I donot have a problem in follow this diet, but I am now afraid to include too much of high fat (butter,ghee,too much of coconut oil or fresh coconut) in my diet, due to this sudden increase in my trig and LDL level.

    Till evening around 4 P.M, I am able to follow a good control of my hunger, but after that, I am very hungry. I tend to eat alot. mostly not good food. i have to work around that urge. any help? please. what to do?

    Morning I have a cup of Veg juice as MRA 13 from dlife hs suggested,

    later after 2 hrs I have a breakfast of a scoop of LW with lots of veg curry, salad and legume. with a cup of black coffee.

    For lunch at 1P.M, I have a small scoop of bamboo rice with veg ,legume, salad, curd thick.

    since Jan 2016, I take 1/2 glycipage per doctor's recommendation, when i told him about my extreme hunger after 4 P.M. Since, I am now a stay home person, i have a small siesta in the afternoon. Later around 3 or 3.30 I have a cup of back coffee/tea. then my bing eating starts upto 7 P.M.

    I met the Dr last week with the latest results, for bing eating he reccommended Glucerna SR in the evening to control hunger.I donot know how this works. Any idea. ? any feed back is appreciated.

  • Your high triglycerides (i remember from values that you posted somewhere) show that you are on High Carb. Fear against FAT is one thing that needs to go. Else, half hearted attempts will not work and can be problematic.

    If CARBS are 20%, FAT has to be 60%. No other way out. One cannot call PASTA a LCHF meal just by pouring Coconut Oil over it.

  • Anupji, as I have stated earlier, my intake of carb is, I think within the limit. 3 times, BF, lunch, and dinner only a small scoop of either LW or bamboo rice. rest is lots of veg, made using cocnut oil and coconut ground. legume curry, a cup of curd and salad. But taking ghee and butter is holding me back. I take less carb. When it comes to 3 times meal, my consumption of carb is less. i a poor eater at these time. trig was 200, and LDL was 81. but eve snacking is the problem I need to be out of the house to stop this bing eating. Then I am ok. If I stay at home, it causes this problem.

  • Sir ji.

    (1) How many grams of carbs, proteins and fats are you eating in a day?

    (2) @atma had this problem of binge eating before he switched to LCHF. He even was put on 5 drugs but nothing worked. He did manage to get off that problem on LCHF diet.

    (3) You have your LIPIDS now. Switch to LCHF for six months and repeat LIPIDS again. There's no science better than "Science Of Medical Reports" Opinions etc become irrelevant.

  • he he ..."PASTA a LCHF meal just by pouring Coconut Oil over it." :) :) interesting and then one i remember "because of lots of cheese on Pizza they call it unhealthy " LOL :D :D

    LCHF is in you blood I would say :)

  • On a serious note, Joslin laced bun with butter and then conducted a trial on High fat diet on 7 (or 11) Type 1 diabetics to demonize Butter. They concluded that butter increases Insulin consumption in Type 1.

    In reality ask any Type 1 on a keto/lchf diet and he/she will show data to the contrary, because they don't lace a bun with butter and eat :)

    This is how "experts against fat" design experiments because bun industry funds it most probably :)

  • Your hunger may be real & cause may be INSUFFICIENT FOOD INTAKE. Your diet may be causing real deprivation & not artificial.

  • Anup Sir, Sorry for replying late. My laptop has a problem. hence didnot have access to my fav forum for a couple of days. Today, I borrowed my son's laptop. I will read through your recommended books sooner. Thank you.

  • Same applies to this suggestion. :D

  • It is felt knowledge and common should work against all odds and oddities of all sciences,Vested interests are to be taken care of. Nobody is a fool !!!

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