about the obesity paradox mentioned in the science daily article-http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150504182245.htm

about the obesity paradox mentioned in the science daily


what is the fate of a scientific research?

when scientific people go for a study and come out with

a result .

it comes first in a medical juornal .

then scientists round the world repeat this experiment.

if found correct by them,

it becomes accepted and become a medical principle and the national institutes make a

recomendation for public.

it also begin appearing in text

books and professors begin teaching it.

otherwise it is forgotten ,discarded into the dustbin of


many researches get this fate.

therefore it will be a risk if any one just begin practicing

such result within months of some one producing an


you see for instance the obesity paradox as presented in

science daily




May 4, 2015


American College of Physicians.

"The overweight and obese patients had an increased risk

for cardiovascular events, but those who were overweight

had better survival rates compared to those who were

underweight or normal-"

what does this sentance mean?

overweight causes more cardiovascular events.

but once an attack comes the slimmer persons have a

less chance of survival.note carefully-

it is survival chance.

naturally longer living may be more with those are not slim


this does not mean we should keep over weight.

because overweight also causes many other problems.

"Excessive body weight has been shown to predispose to

various diseases, particularly cardiovascular diseases,

diabetes mellitus type 2, sleep apnea, and osteoarthritis."

the article it self points to this .

"Second, patients with type 2 diabetes and a low BMI

might have higher tobacco and alcohol consumption,

contributing to both the development of diabetes and a

lower BMI. "

"Finally, obese patients may be more likely to be checked

for diabetes, leading to earlier diagnosis. "

this means the study just presents statistical conclusions

and do not go into the reason as to why such result is



such half digested researches must be for other

researchers to discern and common people

just discard it

untill the vast majority of the world medical

bodies opinionate.

who knows this research will not be discarded by them?

the rest of what some one talks about bmi is half learning.

bmi is a technique towards finding body fat.

it has nothing to do with anybody's health.

health professionals make use of it by giving a range

which they may further fine tune..till that we use the present recommended range only.

that is the fact.

good luck

35 Replies

  • Indiacratus, a very well written post. It has put things in proper prospective. It is appreciated very much.

  • dear patliputra,

    it does not look that this sentance

    "Carrying a little extra weight decreases mortality from type 2 diabetes"

    is part of the original research.

    it was added by article editor[?]

    on the whole

    it is better to reject this sentance unless some competent medical body like the scientists of

    the national insttitue recomend such a thing.

    one thing i will agree .

    fat people

    if they fall they get less bones broken.some cushion effect.

    good luck.

  • The real confusion is in comparing 1) obese persons acquiring induced diabetes and developing complications specially cardio vascular diseases. 2) Those smokers and alcoholics developing cardiovascular disease who are diabetes for heredity reasons not necessarily obese but lean.

    BmiI helps to assess the weight due to accumulation of fat due to wrong eating habits or the persons have higher bone and muscular weight. In the first case by changing food habits one loses weight and in the second case he will not lose weight by changing food habits

    In any case the news of longer life etc., is a conclusion drawn between persons of category 1 and 2.which is basically wrong and misleading.

  • dear ragivji.

    it is an incomplete

    research it looks.

    good luck

  • Indiacratus

    What I meant was if the researcher sets a hypothesis not taking the other reasons to hasten death but just tries to test a hypothesis of death between overwight people and slim people he will reach wrong conclusions.

    obesity is a disease and cardiovascular disease is a consequence of obesity. Let us understand clearly that we should not feel happy with such lopsided research and advocate overweight is better than slim as some people are trying to say here..

  • agreed.

  • Patients should not be discouraged to adopt healthy life style.

    Those concluding lines says every thing ,and that is the final verdict.

  • yes. agreed. that is the point.

  • Fat Head the movie disclosed that the USA Center for Disease Control held statistics to show that the longest life expectancy for Americans was for a BMI slightly in the overweight category. It could be argued that the healthy BMI range needs redefining to 23 - 27.

    However, different ethnicities may have different life-expectancies at different BMIs.

    The most important factor to consider may be 'healthy life-expectancy', rather than keep patching people up for an unhealthy existence.

  • So in short BMI 19.5 to 20 what is always pushed here by someone is dangerous :)

  • The ideal body weight for different body builds are roughly as below

    body type height ideal weight bmi

    dwarfs 4'6" 37 kg 20

    short 5'0" 52kg 22.51

    medium 5'6" 68kg 24.00

    tall 6.'00" 83kg 25.00

    One can work out if he is over weight or not with this info

    BML of 20 is for very short persons probably certain races such as Japanese Chinese etc.,

  • dear raoji,

    there are two things

    1]one thing is how much fat a person is.how to express it?

    2] the second thing is how much fat one can be?this second one is a medical question .

    the bmi answers the first problem.

    the people who in this forum ,going on telling BMI is useless do not have a proper understanding of its genesis.

    the body mass index is a way of expressing the fat content of the body.

    it was developed by the belgian astronomer mathematician quetelet.it was developed by him to find the average man.somewhat outside the scope our considerations.

    i will give a simple example .

    why is pi a constant?

    The number pi is constant, the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter.

    so he might have argued the body develops both sidewise and along the length and there must be a constant to describe it.just as a circle varies while pi is retained constant.

    he also took into consideration of the total skin area.

    i do not know the exact arguments by him.

    but one thing is clear.

    he describes the average man and

    it has given us a way of expressing the average mass and volume.

    which in turn tells the average fat.

    the mass divided by the square of the height also combines thus:

    the two variables height and weight into one single number.

    many other idexes[indices] exist. but this one is the only one used universally.

    people with a non normal body frame or structural anomalies like the dwarf ,as you pointed out, has to be considered as deviations as we say 'conditions apply".

    now comming to the second case as i had given as a medical problem.

    it was solved statistically by observing the healthy people who fall within the 18.5 to 25 group.

    this being a wide range the recommendations do not probably take seriously the frame issue or the dwarf case.

    i often suggest the mid point of the range 18.5 to 25

    21/22 bmi

    because in my bmi calculations of youngsters i found that this 22/21 in statistically of highest distribution and cosmetically the best.

    more over it is just the average. of 18.5 and 25.

    but being within the range advised by the larger medical bodies i felt myself conformal at 22/21 bmi. it has no other implications...

    ignore the people who say bmi is useless .

    they don't have a proper understanding or source to quote except some stray dot coms which are constantly false propagandists.

    good luck.

  • Indiacratus

    I agree with your analysis. Bmi is an index just inch,meter kilometre etc.,. It is an indication of ideal body weight.

  • Hi indiacratus,

    I had a thinking which is very much in agreement with "... but those who were overweight

    had better survival rates compared to those who were

    underweight or normal-" for logic of my own :-)

  • Yes, latest studies all point to the fact that overweight (not obese) have longer life compared to underweight or normal.

  • that is only after an attack.

    in other words people who have a cardio vascular event the thinner one has a lower chance of survival..

    not that over weight people have a better life span.

    overweight is bad. normal weight is good.

    which study contradicts it?

    good luck.

  • Hi ultraduo,

    What I felt is that when the flesh/fat is more, the heart & all maintenance systems of the body will have to work more to keep away decaying. This over-work will be a superior substitute to exercises. We know that exercises are good for health/longevity.

    Hence the theorem :-) .

  • that is a technique by some to get their half digested knowledge cleared.

    .that is hit the professor:

    he will explain again.

    here the professor is the forum.

    most knowledgeable members of the forum drooped out.nobody replying now.and hence not the theorem

    and meet the fate.

  • Thank you indiacratis.

  • Hi George,

    I go by latest research (and not just restrict my knowledge to three or four websites) and most point to one thing. Overweight (not obese) is far better than aiming for lower end of the BMI. BMI is just and escape route for a criminal diet. Of course ADA and Mayo will still keep harping about the same as that is the easiest way to put the blame onto diabetic instead of their silly dietary advises.

    As for followers of LCHF, LCHF increases metabolic rate so they can cut down on unnecessary walking. Remember i said "unnecessary walking. Eating 300 grams carbs and then hitting the track for a 10 mile walk is unnecessary as we cut down 200 grams carb and eliminate 6 km walk. Pure science, no hearsay.

  • This is a convincing explanation, ultraduo.

  • that is a misunderstanding mr. george.,

    that is only after an attack.

    in other words people who have a cardio vascular event the thinner one has a lower chance of survival..

    not that over weight people have a better life span.

    overweight is bad. normal weight is good.

    which study contradicts it?

    it is like this.

    overweight and high cholesterol increases the risk of a cardiovascular event like coronary thrombosis..

    but if a statistics of those who survived the event ,then the thinner people had lower survival chance.

    that means hit a person hard, then give him some water.

    good luck.

  • the misunderstanding arises because of

    the false knowledge that coronary thrombosis is due to cholesterol and overweight.

    it was known in the 20th century or even earlier that a heart attack is due [or stroke] is due to multiple reasons forming a clot .the thinner orifice of an artery is only an assistant.survival past an attack is something different from a risk for an attack.

    good luck.

  • B M I formula applies only persons on normal category .

    1 Athleics W W F persons Boxers have heavy wt as per BMI they are more. But they eat heavy food sand also work hard .So there is no problem for those ?

    2 Genaraly BMI is one of the tools which is used for persons healthy range . But it was not only consider but also other tools also.

    3 For diabetic it has noticed both of the persons B M I 18 to 28 or more also?

    4 For diabetic Wt reduction is one of the factor for consideration. But most of high B M I and more obesity persons have not noticed diabeties or HBP or any other diseases.

    5 Some of them, says fat persons suffer more heart problems B P and diabeties . But slim persons also have the same problems

    6 One thing is noticed recently most of the non veg person consuming more meat and chicken have more over wt and obesity and also they have attacking heart problems it was recently found from survey of 3 major hospitals I have not much idea about the actual source of this information.

    7 Obesity and over wt only not problems for persons health In fat persons the other fats sub contruck fat and visceral fat may be the role of these diseases ?

    Can u please clarify ?

  • i just go by the world standards.

    18.5 to 25 bmi is what the entire world advices.

    some rare cases are there no doubt.

  • Hi Nataraj

    BMI and Sedentary lifestyle are best escape routes for covering a faulty dietary advise. This way they can shirk off all their responsibilities and concentrate on studying how to make more drugs sell and keep blaming the diabetic for their woes. That's why we simply don't care what world bodies say, because we are convinced that their job is to somehow make sure that drugs sell. For example, if by changing diet, insulin sales decreases by 500 crores per year in India then the companies will spend 50 crores to fund junk studies to be published on so called best websites of world.

    On Visceral fat YES. But, why does visceral fat go up? Whya re even marathon runners and atheletes becoming diabetic? Oh wait, Mayo will come up with some gene theory. Looks like human genes are changing fast after being forced to live on a dangerous diet called High Carb Low fat.

    Anything that cannot be accounted for on High Carb Low fat diet is called Paradox. 15 out of 22 countries in Ancel Keys study that set the pace for ruining human health is a case of PARADOX? Only naive will believe in that. A bigger number countries' data which did not agree to Ancel Keys study cannot be a PARADOX.

  • Ultraduo, Yes your comment good

    1 B M I is one of the tools to measure the healthy person But it was not only considered for all purposes

    2 Only below the range or higher range of the person not fully depend upon his health

    3 Every blog ADA mayo or Diet doctor or Dr. mercoala or diabetes science daily are the searches and magzines they force their opinion to public some of them may attract their things and may be followed

    .4 Some of the searches inform some thing about health tips and maintain their products to sell and giving advertises the diabetic recpie books belly fat reduces and wt loss programe and also Reduction of blood pressure reduce books for money purposes

    5 Drugs using by the healthy persons a or diabetic persons it was their own decision Any one cannot force to any body . Above said magzines advertise to push their recpie books and their products of wt loss programe Only non knowledge person were stick on these blogs and give to some others to give the link to propaganda of the products .

    6 Diet is the main key theory to maintain good health for all persons

    7 The habit of junk food and packedfood is the main reason but the peoples now depending on these foods it causes the diseases .

    8 if any person found the Docor mis guide and push heavy drugs if he noticed he must change the Doctor for 2nd or3 rd opinion.

    9 Only criticising the Doctors and drug companies any problem may not solvable. if the series conditions of the person is on COMA OR URGENT KIDNEY DIALYSIS TO BE DONE OR HEART PROBLEMS WITHOUT DOCTORS AND MEDICINES WHAT CANWE DO ?

    of course now some of the blog avilable in googal searches and they maybe given for diabetic but what about cancer patients and T B patients and bed ridden patients . For all disease Lchf is not suitable Without Doctors and medicines now these diseases cannot cure and control

    10 For diabetic persons Lchf is good . Carbohydrate rich foods spikes BS immediately

    11 some of the link says that VISCERAL FAT SUB CONTANEOUS FAT SKELETLE MUSCLE AND BODY FAT are above the normal value diabetes and heart problems and HBP is common and not curable What is your opinion about ths

  • Nataraj -

    Yes few or most alternative therapists sell something. Well, i will not blame them because through ADA/AMA/AHA/FDA, the drug companies eliminate competition from alternative routes only to sell something.

    But, most forums that take the alternative route, don't do it for money.

    Belly Fat (Visceral) is most dangerous. So focus should be to get that down.

  • Agreed Belly fat and visceral fat should be controlled without proper excercise only diet is not possible ?

    that is why sedentary life helps to person became over wt or obesity . these persons have chances of diabetic heart problems HBP and artharites problems when comparing to BMI normal persons . These persons if they reduce their BMI then these chances will reduced . That is why I am stated that BMI in one of the tool for health diagnoise.

    Can u explain about visceral fat subcontaneous fat and body fat how it effect diabetes either here orby separate discussion

    My opinion if we doing excercise with proper healthy diet then over wt or obesity chances is very very less and our body became flexible and it gives good health. Someof the Lchf followers also says this in previous discussion.

  • Nataraj

    If being non sedentary could help a diabetic wrt CVD/CHD then a 12 year high carb low fat diet with exercise should have reduced CVD/CHD in diabetics. The study got silently terminated because it didn't help even a bit.


    Daily routine work should be enough

  • Daily routine work is sufficient if u work hard or satisfactorily for daily doing work In olden days men and women or not going walking or excercise because they wake up early morning and doing their duty independently and women also doing house hold work cleaning houses washing cooked vesseles and wash the cloths they can appoint for labourer for these works men going to do all his duties and house duties going their own leg and not using two whelers or 4 whelers.

    Now most of person going even 10 meters by two wheler or by 4 wheler Every work by labourer machinery use. That is walking or excercise is necessary to consume the food

    most of lchf system adopted persons also doing excercises and walking and they also flexibility as their figure is shared by 2 or 3 members in this forum

    Further what we to do or not to do it is left to persons

  • Diabetes is on the rise among poor hard working laborers also, who don't even manage full diet in terms of calories and macronutrients. How come?

  • dear george,

    the theory is like this:

    saturated fats ,[excess , above 7 percent , not allowed]

    will raise circulating cholesterol.proved [individually]

    that is a risk for atherosclerosis.

    now -so far we have a smaller orifice

    in the artery by way of this .

    this is not a cause for heart attack.[ it was known in 20th or even 19th century]

    but if a dis lodged clot begins to move towards this region it clearly has to block the artery further ahead by geometry,[ by necessity.as the artery has to branch and reduce the orifice].then

    coronary thrombosis and death.[ if it happens in the coronary artery.]if in the brain it is stroke.

    this we call heart attach [or cvd.]

    ignore the person

    who goes on copy pasting

    safa-- no one proved -- cvd ,.

    he has no understanding of the mechanism so far proved

    by the great men of physiology.

    good luck.

  • A meta-analysis of prospective epidemiologic studies showed that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD. More data are needed to elucidate whether CVD risks are likely to be influenced by the specific nutrients used to replace saturated fat.

    Source: ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009.27725.short

    No wise person would ever be able ignore this.

    Also, worth reading as it comes from Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee, USA ;)


    In 35 years they realized cholesterol theory that they have been talking of is wrong/baseless/useless wrt cvd/chd

    In another 35 years they will realize SFA theory is also wrong. Wrongs have to be undone and it's the internet and free thinking groups of individuals which will even force the bodies to rethink. This is because forums of diabetics on LCHF prove them wrong.

  • indiacratus,

    Thank you for the explanation but at this point of time I am not planning to study more about fat related matters. Thank you once again for the clarification.

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