dietary controversy

Ketoacidosis versus Ketosis

Some doctors and other medical professionals confuse ketoacidosis, an extremely abnormal form of ketosis, with the normal benign dietary ketosis associated with ketogenic diets and fasting states in the body.

They will then tell you that ketosis is dangerous.

The difference between the two conditions is a matter of volume and flow rate*:

•Benign dietary ketosis is a controlled, insulin regulated process which results in a mild release of fatty acids and ketone body production in response to low carbohydrate intake, and higher fat consumption.

•Ketoacidosis is a condition in which abnormal quantities of ketones are produced in an unregulated biochemical situation. In order to reach a state of ketoacidosis, the body has to be in a state of not producing enough insulin to regulate the flow of fatty acids and the creation of ketone bodies..

Here's a table with actual numbers to help show the differences in magnitude:

Body ConditionQuantity of Ketones Being Produced

After a meal: 0.1 mmol/L

Overnight Fast:0.3 mmol/L

Ketogenic Diet (Nutritional ketosis):1-8 mmol/L

>20 Days Fasting:10 mmol/L

Uncontrolled Diabetes (Ketoacidosis): >20 mmol/L

Here's a more detailed explanation:

Fact 1: Every human body maintains the blood and cellular fluids within a very narrow range between being too acidic (low pH) and too basic (high pH). If the blood pH gets out of the normal range, either too low or too high, big problems happen.

Fact 2: The human pancreas is an organ which secretes insulin, a hormone that helps the body manage blood sugar and fat storage. Without insulin, the body cannot utilize glucose for fuel in the cells, AND cannot store fat in the fat cells.

This is why one of the symptoms of Type 1 diabetes is unexplained weight loss. Type 1 diabetics have pancreatic damage which results in a complete lack of insulin production, and as a consequence, their fat cells have no insulin message telling them to "hold on to those fatty acids".

Without that message from insulin, large quantities of fatty acids flow out of the fat cells and are broken down in the liver into a ketone body called acetoacetic acid which is then converted to two other circulation ketone bodies, Beta-hydroxybutyrate and acetone.

This is ketosis, but an unrestrained, abnormally excessive ketosis.

The danger of keto-acidosis is in the amounts of the ketone bodies being released. Because ketone bodies are slightly acidic in nature, and so many are released at once in a ketoacidosis situation, they build up in the bloodstream.

The sheer volume quickly overwhelms the delicate acid-base buffering system of the blood, and the blood pH drops to become more acidic than normal.

It is this low pH, acidic condition known as acidosis which is dangerous, not the ketones themselves.

Acidosis symptoms include fruity breath (from the acetone), nausea, hyperventilation, (deep, rapid breathing) dehydration and low blood pressure, as the body tries to rid itself of the abnormal amounts of ketones through the lungs and urine.

If left untreated, ketogenic acidosis can result in a coma and death. Treatment includes the administration of insulin to slow the ketosis and fluid replacement.

Diabetics can develop diabetic ketoacidosis if they don't inject enough insulin to compensate for activity and food intake.

45 Replies

  • I had posted few days back the implications of damage to kidneys and other matters which invited a furious debate bordering on abusing one or the other by bloggers which was distressing to me .The above moderates our view which is balanced and educating ourselves on a topic of our interest.

  • @ ragivrao : Pl keep up the good work.Your write up on Ketosis and ketoacidocis is excellent . Do not get dis-heartened .I would like to quote Mother Theresa : People are often unreasonable and selfish , forgive them any way .... for you see , in the end, it is bet' you and God .It was never bet' you and them any way

  • this should settle controversy on the topic raised earlier by some in this forum

  • DKA is dangerous state and NK is not, this is known to all fellow low carbers. Controversies sometimes happen because some who do not like the idea of LCHF, don't even know and aren't even ready to update about what NK is, just because it doesn't appear in some textbooks or websites of their choice.

  • Does Nk work even if there is no insulin in the body.How do we know that d2 have some amount of insulin to control generation of ketosis? Any way to test this?

  • Ketostix strips.

    DKA is primarily a Type 1 phenomenon, though can happen in Type 2 on just insulin and nothing else.

  • what do I understand by" just insulin" Do I take it as ""meagre or scanty" .In such a situation D1 D2 both get into DKA? and difference gets blurred

  • Just insulin means beta cells in pancreas all defunct/burnt out so sulphonyl urea drugs also don't work. It takes quite a lot of body abuse on drugs and wrong diet to reach that state. DKA in type 2 is technically possible in that event.

  • My question was whether without some amount of insulin in our body controlled mild release of ketones is possible to make it safe? ketostix detects

    ketones only after the process has started to release the ketones by the body into urine. Is it that we have no means to check if d2 have some amount of insulin before getting into the process of the ketogenic state of burning fat for energy requirement? Is it necessary that the dietary process requires to be undertaken under medical supervision or any one can start blindly ?I wish to take up the issue of drug and diet misuse as a separate issue. and not mix up to avoid confusion.and help focussing on the body response.

  • Check what your fasting insulin levels are without a dose of insulin. If you are on insulin, then just like Dr Bernstein has been living for around 4+ decades as a type 1, then anyone on insulin can.

    Living off ketogenic diet will not be easy as it is too late to switch now.

  • I have no means to know how the doctor was checking his fasting insulin level.Can you describe the procedure if you have knowledge.

  • Repeated lab tests to come to an average values over a period of time for a near fixed diet is the usual procedure.

  • too vague for any practical understanding and use by I check bl sugar on my instrument and go only for annual lab check up

  • @ragvirao Indeed a very relevant and educative post.In fact you have encouraged me to study the subject in detail.Thank you,sir.

  • Mr venkataramana

    yes if you can, it will help better understanding for our mutual benefit. If this forum is properly focussed on health issues of diabetics it serves as an information source independent of depending on medical profession.

  • dear ragiv ji,

    as your profile goes -age--

    you are very energetic and correctly reasoning ,congrats..

    the post you have given sounds like the dissident doctors of the internet.

    they are men like dr volec, bernstein ,mercola, mendosa, apple a day, eating academy -- diet doctor and so on.

    they are not doctors of the second level even.[ please see the note given at bottom]

    what have they invented? nothing-

    just practicing doctors.

    to make statement such as '

    "some doctors ----- confuse------"

    one should be above just a professional doctor..

    these people are not inventors or discoverers--

    to the best of my knowledge,

    only dr bernstein in the group ,

    has to his credit a certain hydrochloric acid test for gerd

    [ that is a minor advice , of course i do not discredit any one].

    how can they talk over and above the level 2 and 3 medical men

    who are the men who created modern medicine..

    it was dr Volec who coined the term nutritional ketosis[dietary ketosis]

    if that was anything significant or to be reckoned with,

    why the scientists of the world do not agree with it?

    nutritional ketosis or DIETARY KETOSIS or LCHF are not available in any encyclopedia or university level text book or website.

    they are just some low level opinions circulating and recirculating in the net.

    junk knowledge.that is it.

    from people who made success in getting money from dot com business or a book .

    because weak minded people are often drawn to slogans or titles such as-

    what the doctor does not tell you,

    scientists are liars,

    carbohydrate causes cancer!!-etc

    all the level two and level three scientists recommend a balanced and calorie limited food

    with saturated fats limited to 7 percent of calories eaten =ada,

    and european union restricts to 10 percent.

    the fundamental comparison is to be made between the folowing 2 categories.

    1] the diabetic who is on balanced and calorie limited food

    2] the one who follows high fat eating.

    no one recomends the second for diabetics. ada recommends it for obese people who fail otherwise, that too 130 grams.per day.

    this type of fat experiments

    they will not permit among the westerners' diet.

    so they come to experiment among the poor Indians.

    see the ferocity of their insults and the foul language =ADA and WHO, all are NONSENSE.they are paid it looks by some sources in maintaining websites for this purpose

    by the way,

    i will give the true scientific picture.

    from fats we have ketones and ketone can give energy .this is a normal process .otherwise how can we eat ground nuts? but eating grounds nuts only----- !!!

    if the rate of production of ketones are more than the rate of its absorption from blood [for energy ]

    then ketones accumulate in blood.common sense.

    ketosis=keto+osis[ osis meaning disease or similar condition- eg -tuberculosis, leptospirosis etc]

    too much of ketones in blood causes a phenomenon

    called acidosis

    in which a proton gets seperated.[that is hydrogen ion] by this process the blood become acidc =a dangerous condition.

    that is how the word keto+ acid+osis.[ there is also some thing called lacto acidosis which i think the forerunner of metformin was


    even in pre degree biology the citric acid cycle is taught.

    then how can someone say -some doctors confuse and advise---.

    and for mbbs they learn at least two hundred pages of biochemistry.

    and this half a paragraph they do not know? wonderful.

    even a level zero person like india cratus can grasp it . what is the big complication in it.

    these things ,

    who should advice us ?

    such as ketosis- is ok

    or ketosis is a starvation situation to be avoided-

    whom should we follow?

    the men who invented these particles and the phenomenon?

    or someone who did nothing towards a discovery.

    great scientists and doctors constitute committees [of scientists of discovery level ]

    to advise the people--

    what they give is called the guide lines..

    in the USA it is NIH.the national institutes of health .

    and in UK it is NHS.the national health service

    in india it is the indian diabetes association.

    that is why i wrote an article

    how to acquire knowledge about diabetes from the net.

    it will be a wastage of time to go to random websites and pick up un authorized knowledge

    and then try to get it corrected.

    good luck



    Suppose we classify medicine men into

    Various levels--

    Level one

    All mbbs md like practicing doctors and other medical people like nurses biochemists , pharmacologists etc

    Level two

    men who invented medicines or medical methods

    for example

    the scientist who suggested hba1c molecule can be used as a glucometer and

    the scientist for whom this glycosylation was a headache—

    I mean he was doing some


    experiment on a1c molecules- the one who first found out glycosylation

    level three

    nobel prize and near nobel prize scientists

    level zero

    people like indiacratus and others.

  • (1) What have you invented?

    (2) What is your qualification?

    (3) Are you a diabetic? If yes, what's your diet, drugs, lipids. Your profile says nothing so asking this.

    (4) Why did obesity, diabetes, cancer, cvd, chd increase after USDA Food pyramid.?

    Remember, knowledge =/= Passing exams because exams can be passed by mugging also.

  • indiacratus

    Thanks for your reaction.

    I am nether a doctor nor a biologist or for that matter a dissident to the profession of doctors. I have tried to understand merits or demerits of a particular diet primarily with a view to benefit my self who is a long time diabetic who has controlled diabetes merely on carbohydrate diet (being a vegetarian) so far.

    When so many people who claim benefits of a particular diet, i t is not easy to brush aside their experience as diabetic patients and not dispassionately look into their claim.

    Other things you mention, I feel I am not competent to discuss as my interest is confined and limited to look if any new system has any long term impact on health or not. and whether it benefits me to live a few more years or not. Presently I have my own reservations on the diet issue and have no plan to change my diet..

  • indiacratus

    further to my reply I understand that there is almost unanimity in respect to low corbo hydrate diet but there is still lot of debate on high fat .Further I understand ADA has loosened on lchf but still not on long term effect.It appears they advise restrict to one year as a weight lose protocol. Kindly throw some light on this as you appear to know more

  • in terms of percentage it works to 23.5+23.5+53.and not 20+20+60.Suppose we adopt 30+30+40 does it make a dangerous mixture?

  • ragiv ji,

    who says ada has loosened?

    they never advocated high fat eating as a method in diabetes.

    they say it can be used as weight control measure,if other methods fail.

    actually it was doctor Annika of sweden who brought this high fat eating for weight reduction.

    it was a treatment strategy in the 19th centiry.

    i will add


    good luck

  • "it was a treatment strategy in the 19th centiry."

    And Obesity (and all the diseases that follow with obesity) is a 20th century strategy through High Carb Low Fat (so called balanced diet) BROKEN and FAILED USDA Food Pyramid. It is replaced by PLATE, which will fail again in next 10 years but by then few trillions will be made from selling DRUGS to cover a BROKEN Diet.

  • indiacrats

    I read in a nutrition magazine and saved the article. If you feel you wish to read I can post it for your reading Unfortunately I do not recollect the name of the magazine.

  • I saw it in a nutrition magazine under heading :low carb research". website is

  • Raoji,

    "When so many people who claim benefits of a particular diet, i t is not easy to brush aside their experience as diabetic patients and not dispassionately look into their claim. "

    excellent logic.really.have you copied this style from indiacratus himsef=compliment.

    to this i may not give exhaustive response:

    long typing please.

    1] most of them were over eating people who do not know anything about carbo hydrate counting which is advised by the world bodies.

    they reduced their over eating and got some benefits.

    more over,

    who says reduced carbs will not reduce glucose in blood.

    that is how the indiacratus' mockery came long ago:

    "i closed the tap, see the water level in the bucket does not rise. wonderful! "

    the water from tap is the dietary glucose.

    if you can read my second article in this context you can get the idea more easily.

    glucose reduction is not the only issue in question.

    as you say

    low carb is agreable but high fat is the question.

    if you can go through my article =it is not agreed like that.many many rasons.

    there i had asked a question : where does the over eaten fat go? no answer was given.

    i had even suggested an LCCf in that article to surmount the situation..

    low carb causes problems for the body--

    one for instance.

    the institutions within the body for energy,

    most of it is for catered for carbohydrate- the most natural food of man , homoerectus, anthropoids and monkeys.

    all these instruments will will go idle. if carbs are avoided.

    if low carb does not cause any problem why atkins diet is not recommended by the world bodies.?everybody in europe and usa , india all under drug mafia?where has gone the fat mafia [and protein].

    the world bodies recommend only the balanced diet.

    2] another thing is the nutritional crisis

    there is no plant food[ even from the fungus kingdom] with out carbs.

    so limiting carbs will limit nutrients..

    men like dr bernstein may be taking all sorts of plant originated supplements such as fiber vitamin c etc behind the curtain.he is a well earning new york can a poor Indian afford to his diet?

    3]damages to organs like kidney and liver -through the unnatural high fat eating:

    through longer steps in 'fat route to atp'.

    from carbs to atp, body has smaller number of steps to atp.

    organ work overload! this cannot come out in an LFT= liver function test for a long term affair.

    4] how do we know that

    high fat is better than=

    carbs and insulin[medicine]

    the superstition that anything non medicinal is better than medicine[ any medicine]

    who says insulin is a medicine?

    it is a supplement.the body does not produce it in enough quantities, give it from outside= perfect logic.probably i am the first person in this world to say insulin is not a medicine.

    5] carbs and diabetes medicines are time tested.

    high fat diets are not time tested.

    6] atherosclerosis?if the fats eaten go, even a spoon, more than the required amount.where will it go?ketones in urine ?

    in the carb context it will be just stored because insulin is the escort.

    the list is never ending

    no responsible science body on earth recommends high fat eating.

    your last paragraph .really perfect description . congrats.

    but high fat eating was universally advised in the 19th century,

    but disappeared with insulin arriving in 1922.

    thanks for patient listening. come often .

    the forum wants people like you.

    good luck


  • indiacratus.

    I did not mean to irritate you. I apologise if I have caused any thing offensive. With this kind of reply do you still feel I should come often to this site.

  • raoji,

    what irritation? dont remember.

    are you talking about the post on todays dietition?

    that is the opinion of one person. a diabetes educator. they are not even doctors or scientists.

    suppose we are in a laboratory-

    some junior person points out something and his own explanation.

    are we going to shut our eyes and just swallow it?

    are we not curious to find out what the professor or senior scientists has to tell about it?

    the men who discovered /invented along that line/context.

    they advice balanced and calorie limited food.

    it may be easy ,if i can give a hypothetical percentage picture.

    considering the various pros and cons the great men give

    90 marks for insulin [medicines] and balanced food.

    they give ,say 75 marks for high fat eating

    and warns --

    it is not to be tried,

    unless you are over weight /obese and failed the standard methods to reduce weight.

    .that too short term only. 130 grams carbs per day.moderately low carb=ada recommends'

    restrict saturated fats etc etc.transfats -no.

    which has to be accepted?

    please come often .a person like you cannot offend me.

    everybody is free to hold an opinion. you hold on o what you think right. so what.

    many people in my family was over eating salt before my cousin brought the news to the upper family that

    salt extra is unnecessary-

    what is in the food, vegitables ,,... is enough.anyway take a minimum.

    in my branch of the family i just removed the salt tray from the dining table. father did not object.

    but many of them lived upto 90 , 85 and 75 ,90, 92

    so nothing may happen if you increase your fat intake some 10 percent and reduce the corresponding amount from carbs.

    and carbs they prescribe with wide margin 45 to 65 percent for the healthy man.

    that is why in my LCCF suggestion [ low carb and compensatory fat]

    i had pointed out that ;

    if you are so adamant on low carb

    then go for 40-45 carbs so that,

    you are within recommendations and still low carb.[ this was in my first article on the subject].

    more over for some persons with out kidney disease they recommend -one can go upto 30 percent proteins.

    all this dietary gymnastics for what?

    for a psychological satisfaction!

    " i am not on any medicine."i am medicine free.

    to me it is just preposterous.i am on the side of the world medical bodies- not the insignificant minority of dissident doctors and people.

    but if people are going to die on carbo hydrate i also may even go to a manthravadi[=magic medical man.]EXAGGERATION PLEASE

    good luck

  • Indiacratus

    I felt your reply showed that you were feeling antagonised when I said we should dispassionately look into the experience.

    With my long diabetic suffering I could imagine different approaches to health problems. I respect your views and do not wish to say anything except to say I am learning.

    I could not locate the articles mentioned by you. Probably I missed them as I did not visit the site for a long time.

    I am happy if you say you are not irritated. It is good that you have seen the comments in the website on ADA approach to diet

    I take note of what you say about my contortion to visit the site.

  • dear raoji,

    i think the four articles i mentioned are

    are given below.

    also by clicking on my name you can get many articles written by me --all of them 66 posts and above 600 responses=

    only to one purpose:

    in the western world Europe and America a diabetic is given a diabetes education program.

    we have to import the same to our citizens.

    many people came out to give me a supporting hand- significant among them are patliputra and rksharmakumar. some people opposed the project.

    in the end what happened to my arguments with them?as you said "so you have realised the futility of argument"

    i just dropped out of them.because of impolite and illogical remarks .these remarks you will not get now because,

    the diabetes india administrators dismissed them from the forum.but they returned in diferent names.

    good luck ,take care.

  • india cratus

    thanks for high lighting the specific posts .I will study all these and come back to you for more info if necessary.

    Meetu77 has not yet replied to my latest question .I am waiting.

    In any case the difference in approach as to how much carbohydrate to eat control BSL appears to be a minor issue and can be analysed if we avoid contentious language and debate intelligently and upto the point without irritating rhetoric.

  • Mr Indiacratus

    I have studied the four posts and appreciate the logic and cogency with which you have explained.

    1.It would appear that you have accepted that lower carbohydrate consumption helps in controlling the blood sugar which is the primary objective of following any dietary procedure by diabetics as against indiscriminately eating .The dispute appears to be how much carbohydrate and how to work out the best composition of the three main components viz carb, protein and fat

    As per your understanding the 60:20:40 (ADAStandard)ratio has to be on total calorie intake as may be advised by the doctor You have also said that the ratio can be altered to 45:20:35 in case of obese diabetes but applied to total calorie intake. Is my understanding correct

    2Those who advocate LCHF diet as per your understanding of their blog,the total carbohydrate should be limited to 100 grams per day and balance food should come from protein and fat. Further they advocate there is no harm in eating fat till satisfying their hunger although they also advocate lilmiting proteins to maximum 20%. In other words the ratio can go down to 20:20:60 if applied to calorie intake.and in extreme cases to 5:15:80 on total calories: Is this your understanding ?

    I would like to be educated correctly on the matter

    3.The100 grams limit is it is related to weight of unkood food or cooked food? Does it refer to total food intake per day or only carbohydrate intake..In your computation of fat ,you have assumed total food as 100 grams and apportioned further into carb protein and fat based on calories .

    It would greatly help if you can at your leisure reply to my doubts.

  • dear ragivji,

    1]"It would appear that you have accepted that lower

    carbohydrate --------"



    but before that one general remark.

    all my understanding is the same thing as just what


    learn in the medical college. the mbbs MD students-


    university knowledge.

    i rarely make an opinion of my own

    except in some philosophical issues like ethics and

    sometimes science philosophy.

    by reducing or not taking carbo hydrates at all

    the body will turn to

    glucose production from proteins [of its own destroyed

    muscles] or from dietary protein. from fats no glucose

    can be bloood glucose will reach near

    starvation levels.


    "------out the best composition of the three main

    components viz carb, protein and fat

    As per your understanding the 60:20:40"


    in the 19th century before insulin,

    high fat and starvation diets were tried.

    but they all disappeared with the arrival of insulin.

    but a certain diet for a diabetic continued to linger on

    till the mid 1990s.[ because probably the human insulin

    available from 1980s only

    .formerly side effects from animal insulin prompted

    people to keep away or minimize insulin .

    modern recombinant insulin = human insulin is with practically zero side


    so in the mid 1990s they began telling :

    whatever diet is good for a healthy man = non diabetic ,

    is the diet of the diabetic.but the low gi advice continues.

    i can explain it , later, a bit .

    so excluding some small things like low gi foods

    the diabetic and non diabetic eats the same healthy


    then the question arises:

    what is the diet prescribed for a healthy man?

    it was given by nutritionists and not by diabetologists.

    that is why i often said ,there is no such thing as ADA diet.

    they say you go for healthy diet.

    this diet of the healthy man is 45 to 65 percent of total calories as carbs

    and a maximum of 10 to 20 percent from proteins and the

    rest from fats.

    that is how i suggested 45[ or the doctor joslin

    40]percent ,

    a diabetic can choose and remain within

    recommendations and yet remain at low carb[45 of

    the 45-65] this wide range they gave is with respect to

    the physical activity of the person concerned i think .of course

    mine is only my suggestion and what they say,

    is you sit with

    doctor and decide -work out-the diet individually-..

    [the total calories are calculated from a long equation

    called harris benedict-- which is contracted to REE and

    later by multiplying with a factor based on physical



    "As per your understanding the 60:20:40

    (ADAStandard)ratio has to be on total calorie intake as



    that is not ada standard. that is what the

    nutritionists standard for the healthy man.which of

    course ada and european union consensus committee


    and literally for arguments sake one can say ada diet.


    "......45:20:35 in case of obese diabetes but applied to

    total calorie intake. Is my understanding correct"


    yes , but the obese has to go temporarily go down even

    below that[ total calories ] till his weight reaches the

    bmi below 25 region.



    "2]2Those who advocate LCHF diet as per your

    understanding of their blog,the total carbohydrate

    should be limited to 100 grams per day and balance

    food should come from protein and fat. "


    LCHF is not found anywhere except in stray forum

    talkers-- as such we can say lchf of this forum,.

    this 100 grams again ,

    is the physiologists prescription that the human brain

    requires a minimum of 100 grams of carbs per

    day.below that people begin feeling hypoglycemic



    "the total carbohydrate should be limited to 100 grams

    per day and balance food should come from protein

    and fat. "


    no. this advice is for "low carb diets , slightly diferent

    from lchf as some people say in this forum.


    "In other words the ratio can go down to 20:20:60 if ...."


    as lchf itself is not a term accepted by the world

    medical bodies ,

    one can only say 'some people go on preaching----'

    this is what i said the dissident opinion of some

    doctors and getting circulated and recirculated in the

    web/net.and these medical persons-none of them in the

    level 2 and 3 medical men as i clssified earlier.

    your understanding of me ,

    rather your understanding of my understanding of them

    is perfect..


    3]100 grams carbohydrates per day:

    cooking does not alter the carb contents of a food

    though it changes the glycemic indx =gi of a food.

    100 gms of carbs per day is the absolute minimum

    prescribed by the nutritionists for the brain .because

    this amount at least

    for its direct absorption

    [ through 'non GLUT 4' route


    the brain is not to be kept waiting for the protein route

    glucose or fat rout ketones.


    "In your computation of fat ,you have assumed total

    food as 100 grams and apportioned further into carb

    protein and fat based on calories ."


    no ,there must be some mistake some where:

    total food is 1600 i assumed.

    i would not have committed such a mistake. if so kindly

    point out which article , where?

    may be that:

    if a person is adamant on not taking medicine and

    wants low carb diet ,


    then the 100 grams of carbs constituting 400 calories

    for brain

    and then the rest of the calories has to be devided

    between proteins and fats [here the assumption is ,he

    is on 1600 kilocals--first article. ]

    protein again having fixed to 240 giving a total of 640

    for prtein and carbs alone together.]

    i have no difficulty is replying you because i read only

    standard web sites ,and as i often request every body

    to read the essential minimum knowledge from the

    university or equivalent links, before they go for

    research papers or stray websites,

    so that we dont have to correct ourselves.

    many forum members -what they do? they go to any

    forum and collect information from non standard


    then they look upon a problem from the back ground of

    those knowledge=thus constituting an yellow glass for


    they find the world naturally yellow as

    the old philosophical relativity , saying, goes.

    one of them answered : we have a yellow glass at least.

    you are blind.your glass is black.

    i returned: cheap lower court lawyer's talk for talk.

    this is a pernicious consequence of people cluster

    together about some idea.

    like a ragging group in a college.

    no such a thing i ever found in a serious science corner.

    how to get rid of such tendencies and make the

    forum matter of fact?

    thanks for patient listening= it is easy to answer you,

    because you are really a person with relevant points.


    hold on to whatever opinion you consider right, but

    come often .the forum needs people like you.

    good luck and take care

  • iiacratus

    I am now clear.No further clarification required.

    As regards other matters, it may not be pleasant to see impertinence but advisable to ignore as of no consequence to the information sought or be clarified. There is still lot of ifs and buts to the diet propounded as safe for our body. It has a great deal of tolerance but when it fails it will be so sudden that there will be no time to even regret what we did to its failure.

  • thanks and


  • indiacratus

    I tried to compute total weight of food intake per day which works out as below based on 1600kcal.

    As per 60:20:20:-240gr:80gr::36gr-total356gr/day

    As per20:20:60:80gr:80gr:100gr-260gr

    In any case it is anywhere between !/4kgto !/3kg

    Do we really need so much quantity or there is some mistake.

    You can reply at your leisure.

  • dear ragivji,

    how this mistake comes is not clear.

    i will repeat rather.

    i took 1600 calories arbitrarily for convenience of

    percentage calculations.per day.

    if the carb -protein- fat ,percentages are chosen as

    60,20,20 then

    60 percent of 1600=960 kcals from carbs.

    ---------------------carbohydrate one gram gives 4 kcals

    ----------------------so 960 devided by 4=240 grams of carbs

    20 percent from protein will work out to 320 kcals.

    -----------------------320 devided by 4=80 grams protin

    as protein also 4 cals from a gram.

    20 percent fats=320 kcals

    but 9 kcals per one gram of fat.

    so 320 by 9=35.55 grams of fat

    so we get a total of

    240+80+35.55=355.55 grams

    your 356 is correct only

    these are dry grams and considering

    50 percent water in food after cooking will work out


    700 grams of basics and some roughage food from will not go beyond 1.5 cooked food per day.

    kindly do not hesitate to put questions.

    we have to catch up with westerners by giving the right

    diabetic education to people.

    thanks for response and

    good luck

  • Interms of percentage it works 23.5:23.:53.and not 20:20:60.

    will it make any difference if it is changed to 30:30:40.Can it be still LCHF or HCLF And will it be dangerous leading to KDA

  • is it cooked food or uncooked food?when you say 60% rest 40%?

  • If hclf can cause dka by supplementing insulin externally can it not be avoided?

    1 what is the reason why you do not prefer 30:%

    2 60% fat you love equals how many grams of food?

  • Which Textbook talks LCCF?

    Why not design a diet, get some followers, watch their medical reports for 5 years and then preach the same like we on LCHF do.?

  • I think it is already there in the last years blogs

  • Too much of anything is bad by definition. Too much ingested fat may be stored as fat. However, body fat is stored as triglyceride, which requires a carbohydrate backbone to combine three fatty acids. Insulin is then required to release lipoprotein-lipase to promote fat storage. Since fat is the least likely to stimulate insulin release, it is easier to store excess carbohydrate or protein than ingested fat.

    Carbohydrates provide vitamin B complex, and vitamin C. These are quite adequately provided by vegetables.

    Fat provides vitamins A, D, E, and K. The body has great difficulty in synthesising these from a vegan diet.

    So that the same scrutiny is applied, where is the evidence that a high fat diet causes damage to the kidneys and liver? There is concrete evidence that high amounts of carbohydrate cause fatty-liver; that is why the French feed ducks/geese with corn to make foie-gras.

    Fructose particularly causes fatty-liver. Digested fructose has to go to the liver, because it is the only place it can be synthesised for use.

    We know excess insulin is worse than hyperglycaemia for chronic health from the ACCORD study.

    Everybody ate a hunter-gatherer diet before agriculture was introduced - 'time tested'!

    VLDL is raised by carbohydrate consumption.

    Your questions are answerable; it's easier to tackle them just one or two at a time.

  • dear concerned ,

    i have given a reply to rajiv rao, can you kindly go through?

    thanks for your response to my long sermon.

    good luck

  • No matter what you say, they will only believe ADA. Sometimes makes me wonder if they represent the drug industry so get upset when LCHF reduces sales of drugs.

  • If 60:20:20: ADA standard as you suspect this is to encourage drug mafia, I wish to understand what is your objection if it is altered to 30%:20%50% Will it make any difference?

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