Is there any scientific basis [rational or experimental] in the following belief ?

Is there any scientific basis [rational or experimental] in the following belief ?

As far as possible we should go for life style adjustments, like diet and exercise, .we should not go for medicine in the beginning itself, in case of a disease.

Though seemingly glamorous, this statement is highly conditional and in general dangerous.

Let us be analytical and find conditions under which it can be accepted or rejected.

1] suppose a child is bitten by a mad dog .no waiting can be recommended

Give anti rabies

Injections immediately.

2] A child develops diarrhea.

Never wait , give anti biotics immediately.

3] Encephalitis

an un known fever. flu-like symptoms

severe headache, as well as confused thinking, seizures,

rare but can be life-threatening in a few days .

some people may contend:

all these examples are are from microbial diseases.

But let us see.

If it is asthma , auto immune diseases like type 1 diabetes. If we wait for long, thinking that let our body develop its own ‘resistance power’

Fatal results will ensue.

If it is a thyroid problem and doctor prescribe thyroxin for life time. Take medicine through out life .no other go.

Suppose a person has depression or psychotic problems. Take medicines, near perfect survival available.

If you don’t take medicine . either he will kill himself or kill others ,

or some one else will kill him.

again medicine is the savior.God sent.

Cancer , heart problems,blood clotting innumerable cases are there –waiting is a great blunder.

I know two cases personally.

One woman had gynecological symptoms which she did not take seriously.

Finally the oncologist said :

surgical removal of uterus is of no use. The cancer is spreading to the kidney area. we can try radiation .

she survived by luck and science-that was my sister in law.

Another case the woman had some discomfort in the back bone area –

those people and her husband were persons who treat themselves with medicated oil massage ,and some herbals. do not much listen to the advice of others.

Finally she was hurried to the surgeon who removed the uterus. Cancer.

In all cases it is most advisable that we go to an English medicine doctor who can check up with his X ray , MRI, endoscope and the lab results to diagnose what the disease is.

In some few cases then, like old age arthritis. we can resort to self experiments like diet, exercise and so on.

Let us see another set of cases.

In some cases like hyper tension some improvement can be obtained by reduced salt intake.if excess salt was the reason.

If a child has stomach ache and that was due to ill treatment by the step mother , no medicine is required. Remove the child from her .the stomach ache vanishes.

Another group of diseases which originates by our moving away from a natural path can be cured by purely returning to the natural environmental poisoning in water , atmosphere etc

But how many diseases are there like that. ?

We consider diabetes now

Type 2 with 90/95 percent is hereditary,

but some life style component is there.

Life style can help reducing blood sugar level to some extent.

But if diabetes has advanced to a higher level, medicine is necessary and unavoidable..

Type one is auto immune, with a lower degree of hereditary causes.

Delaying medicine will be fatal.

I had some time back used a term :

The perfections of modern medicine.


I will give two examples.

With a microscope and chemistry we study a bacterium .

A structure is found in bacterium, but not in the host[ that is man].

We find a chemical that can destroy the structure in the bacterium .the structure

being absent in man ,it becomes a medicine for us.

Another example.

This is a very classical one.

We all have heard of sulphonamides.

The thing in septran tabs -bactrim,

How does it work ?


•Certain microbes require p-aminobenzoic acid (PABA).

•Sulfonamides,are chemicals similar to (PABA)[ molecular appearance] . when we eat it , it gets into bacteria for making folic acid.. Bacteria now cannot grow as it got the wrong food. what it got was not paba but only like paba

• All cells require folic acid for growth.

•Folic acid (as a vitamin in food) can be transported into human cells. However, folic acid cannot cross bacterial cell walls. For this reason bacteria must synthesize its own folic acid from paba.

Man knows how to absorb folic acid . no problem for him.

you see the great mechanism of the is not just poison killing all bacterial and human cells.

Where as in olden days we eat a herb for cure . it may or may not work.its mechanism or side effects in the long run, are unknown to us.i am not criticizing our forefathers ,the ancients,.they had only that much science at that time. So what?


------Another technique is to disturb the bacterial cell wall synthesis !!!

I have just given only a microscopically small amount of knowledge in this field.

Next time if someone is interested, in a large book shop or university library just open a book on biochemistry and scan .you will be astonished to find the great many mechanisms like the one I described .

This is why I said some time earlier, the ‘perfections of modern medicine’.

People with out any of this knowledge , like a blind man turns anti medical, with the hang over of classical medicines.

In case of human INSULIN.

See it is exactly the same as ,what inside our body we produce.


The belief that

“As far as possible we should go for life style adjustments, like diet and exercise, we should not go for medicine in the beginning itself, in case of a disease”.

This belief Has originated from the days when medicine had many side effects.

But now most medicines have negligible side effects.

some medicines like insulin are just perfect.

Though it is inconvenient to administer.

Taking pros and cons on either side -anti medicine is just a blunder, has no rational or experimental basis.

Therefore people who claim that I am successful with out medicine in controlling my blood sugar must have a rethinking.

rethinking as to whether they are at a loss of nutrients and other consequences.

many in this group are already taking tablets or far so good. who is opposed to it?

good luck

25 Replies

  • Few fallacies if you are trying to equate everything with Type 2 diabetics switching over to LCHF to get far better numbers at far less or NIL drugs:

    (1) Type 1 cannot live without Insulin. So that removes the topic from your defense for drug use across the board for things like normal flu etc. However, even TYPE 1 diabetics can attain far better control on less insulin hen they switch to LOW CARB HIGH FAT DIET. Dr Bernstein is a living example of Type surviving on 30 grams carbs per day -- a near ketogenic diet.

    (2) Any disease related to Auto Immune Disorder again needs drugs and drugs only to alleviate the symptoms and not CURE. Even Asthama please refer to Dr Butyeko's method. Some claim that he as eliminated at behest of Pharma industry as he was causing much harm to their interest.

    (3) On Vaccines. A notorious company like Baxter is said to have released strains of Live Virus to 19 countries just to make the bird flu vaccine sell.

    This is also said for Tami Flu where the manufacturing company had a political big wig -- Donald Rumsfeld -- hold lot of shares and he became rich by more than 15 million dollars overnight as a result of sudden surge in sales Tami Flue vaccines --

    Was it a part of Biological warfare research?

    (4) Same Donald Rumsfeld was also involved in hastening the process of pushing Aspartame through FDA. Aspartame already has a lot of negative press. Go through history of Aspartame and how it was pushed through FDA.

    Just a small reference for you.

    FYI, i don't believe in any peer reviewed studies funded by the perpetrators of the crime themselves. You can keep believing in them to justify your stand. Afterall, even AVANDIA was called a SAFE drug and still it killed huge DIABETIC population with heart attacks for which as usual they kept ranting about FAT and diabetic complications blah blah. Finally GSK settled for a $ 3 billion litigation to silence everything.

    (5) As for epileptic seizures, certain class are completely drug resistant. That has been managed through an extreme case of Ketogenic diet alone and this is SUPER High Fat and it is indeed a drastic change in lifestyle which is both glamorous and have proved to be safe even for cases where DRUGS FAILED:

    (6) The imperfections of modern medicine:

    The mercury base used as preservative in vaccines is said to cause AUTISM. No wonder Autism is on the rise with forced vaccinations.

    However, DEVIL will sponsor bunch of studies to prove everything is FALSE and then money is spent on network of websites that push the same lie repeatedly over and over again in order to make it sound true. Its money that's talking and not facts.

    You can only debate if you take a broader view and not just restricted to drug centric approach of yours.

    TYPE 2 Diabetics : If not more, at least 50% can survive without drugs or minimal drugs and even eliminate the need for insulin during their long lifespan and yet achieve far better numbers. LOW CARB HIGH FAT Diet is the answer. Millions are doing it across the globe. They aren't falling dead with CVD/CHD. They have better sugar control, better LIPIDS control etc etc. Kore you defend indiscriminate use of drugs for everything , the more I will counter your claims. Don't ask for reference form websites that are run on "soft donations" from the Big Food and Big Pharma.

    Here's what the corrupt establishment does to hide the failures:

    Hey if drugs are the answer, why don't you stop living off just mushrooms (you claimed so in one of your posts) and start eating everything and cover the same with Drugs? Drug perfection should work for you too if they were perfect ;)

    For last one week I am having upper back pain on right part. Son brought the drug and it is still lying on the table. 90% of pain is gone and I am sure balance would be out of the door in another three days. If i believed you, i should have popped 400mg Brufen or Fenak Plus for three days.I haven't. I hate popping a pill and I avoid as long as i can avoid.

  • if possible, just go through the book " WHAT YOUR DOCTOR DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT NUTRITIONAL MEDICINE MAY BE KILLING YOU" by Ray D, Strand, M.D. I read it in tamil translation published by Manjul Publishing House Pvt. Lt. email: manjul@ you may/will get supporting evidences.

  • I do take two antioxidants -- Alpha Lipoic Acid and CoQ10 besides lemon in Tulsi + Green tea and coconut oil in black coffee. Nutritional advise from government and Pharma sponsored bodies have ruined human health. Diabetes and obesity increase by over 300% and 700%, respectively, since the advent of LOW FAT Nonsense is a glaring example.

    Despite this ADA / AMA / AHA is considered to be manned by supe-humans sent directly by God, by many.

  • And for Type 2 and LCHF, there's a lot of scientific evidence to it. However, since those evidence will HURT the Pharma industry and ADA/AMA/AHA (or their equivalents in any country) very badly,

    everyone is busy turning the LIES of Pharma industry into gospel truth:

  • Does that translate in to :

    "Medicines, the necessary evil of Modern times".


  • mr. Recyan,

    i have given a reply to madhulmrao

    just above in the questions.

    regarding insulin dose.

    can you read it and make any corrections in it?if necessary.

    i make small mistakes when lot of works and tricky numbers come is plain reasoning will not require any further information.

    in insulin dosing there should be no mistakes.

    today from morning till night i was on the run for many private work loads.

    thanks in advance and

    good luck'

  • @indiacratus,

    you are jumping to conclusion about both, my gender & knowledge. :-D :-D :-D .

    My knowledge about insulin is nil & I have a psychological fear about needles & syringes. Am trying to avoid Insulin as long as I can.

    All the same, I have put across my thoughts in the other thread.


  • ok.

    thanks for the message.

    a persons gender is easily predictable from the way he/she reacts to a situation.

    but i am very poor in judging it.

    may be i am always engrossed in a certain context my wife told her sister once:

    "indiacratus does not know how to insult anyone.he always picks up a quarrel!!".

    good luck

  • Really? You do not know to insult? You called me terrorist once. I am sure it wasn't a compliment for sure! You have called names to few others also who talk LCHF here.

  • if possible, just go through the book " WHAT YOUR DOCTOR DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT NUTRITIONAL MEDICINE MAY BE KILLING YOU" by Ray D, Strand, M.D. I read it in tamil translation published by Manjul Publishing House Pvt. Lt. email: manjul@ you will have clear idea of your above claim.

  • that will be only just one man's opinion.

    as great nehru told about maulana abdul kalams freedom at midnight.

    if you can give the essence of the argument in the book ,i can go through it.

    "don't teach god what to play"

    it was Niels Bohr who said this,.,

    Niels Bohr initiated the process that we all know 'the sustained chain reaction' in atomic physics [Fermi] ,which is the basis of atomic energy plants..

    to whom he told you know?you will be astonished to hear the name!!!!

    so let us not tell some books and author names.

    good luck

  • What is God? Have you got any evidence (I am asking as you only talk of evidence fom scientists whom you consider great). Has Harvard published any evidence about GOD?

    It's Modi era now. Nehru is history and no point delving into history. If you want to then start with history the start with relevant fact. Obesity and diabetes has gown by 300 and 700% after LOW FAT Nonsense. Even on healthy diet of High Carb Low fat nonsense, a thing like CONSTIPATION is a $3 billion industry in USA alone. Why is it so in a county which is FORCED to follow the dietary guidelines and despite that America is most obese nation on earth. It all started with LOW FAT nonsense!

    Books are OUTDATED. The real doctors are the ones who are fighting the corrupt establishment.

  • if you write a book by name

    "the creators of the modern world "

    among the first ten, certainly there will be these two names.

    issac newton,one, for instance?even Watson and Crick will not be there among the ten.then this author you quote?

  • Irrelevant at best as far as this forum is concerned. Here we talk Diabetes, Diet, Doctors and Drugs -- the four D's of a diabetic's life :)

  • it is not the option sir, but experience. it is most of the common people's experience. if really you want to know more go through the book referred above. i request you give your opinion in which you are expertise like insulin dosage etc medicine.

  • mr. medfree,

    i never read your responses. why waste time.

    good luck

  • The fact that you replied means you READ and you read. I will keep countering your DRUG centric approach. You can again call me a terrorist like you did sometime back. Many times you stray from the topic. Why do you just live on Mushrooms (you said it). Eat drugs and eat the diet that you recommend to others.

    I will keep countering your irrationally rational statements which you make against LCHF as a "SPECTATOR" and do not believe in actual followers of LCHF when they post their numbers. You will need to STEP Out of outdated textbooks to talk about LCHF.

    When I talk about LCHF, i preach what I practice. I am pretty open about it and i even post my meals, my numbers. medical reports to counter all FALSE claims against SATURATED fat. I post reference links also but just for defending your outdated line of thinking you prefer to stick to what Harvard and ADA talks. I do not believe in any research/study funded by Big Food and Big Pharma. Surprisingly guys like you have no comments to offer when i post my LIPIDS and other reports. You just keep ranting against LCHF, like many who cannot switch to LCHF.

  • If carbohydrates raise blood Glucose does that mean that as a diabetic,you should stay away from them,The low carbs diets that are popular today would make you think that they are ideal for diabetics.The fact is that current scientific knowledge does not support the long term use of low carbs diets specially in Type 2 diabetes.Carbohydrates from fruits,vegetables,whole grains,and low fat diary foods are a part of healthy diet. What about sugar- In the past peoples with diabetes were told to hold the sugar,current scientific literature has found little truth in the notion that sugar raises blood glucose more than other carbohydrates.The most important factor in controlling sugar is the amount of carbohydrates eaten in a meal and not the type.What that means is not that you can eat sugar and sweets liberally,but that an occasional sweet treat may be ok as long as you make adjustment on the total amount carbohydrates eaten in the meal.How many carbs am i allowed to eat-Most men need about 4-5 carbs(60-75gms.)at each meal.Most women generally need 3-4 carbs(45-60)at each meal.If you eat snacks 1-2 choices(15-30g)is adequate.What is carbohydrates counting.A carbohydrates choice is a serving of food which contains 15gms of carbs.Look at the food label and measure how much you will be eating.there are 3 things to locate on the food label,the serving size,the number of grams of carbohydrate per serving and number of carbohydrates choices in the amount you are eating.Look at the food label if you were to eat 2 cups of cereal,which means you had two servings,you will be consuming double the total carbohydrates listed which would come up up to 86gms of carbohydrates.What about Protein and Fats--foods in that category do not affect blood sugar directly.Foods in this category include meat,polutary,eggs,peanut,butter,cheese and fats such as margarine and oils..That does not mean you can eat as much fat or Protein as you like.Keep in mind that most adults need only 60gms of meat or meat alternatives.Make heart healthy choices whenever possible.Healthy eating involves more that just carbohydrates mountings.You have to make the right choices.

  • You are on wrong track. Refer the study link that I posted on your earlier comment.

    SAFA is heart healthy on LOW CARBS.

    BTW, protein doe spike sugar. Ask a diabetic to eat PASTA and test :)

    Healthy eating involves counting total grams of carbs, restricting them to 100grams/day, restricting proteins to max of 1 gam/kg body weight and rest is FAT.

    150+ diabetics are doing it here right on this forum. Also,

    4(C+P) + 9F == total kcal

    If 2000kcal is needed and carb+protien is restricted to max 180grams than 1280kcal has to come from FAT

    == 135+ grams FAT/day is needed.

    SAFA is good for heart on Low Carbs. Millions have proved it around the world but corrupt pharma driven medicare business turns a blind eye so as to secure their profits. As for current scientific knowledge, they are BLIND to LCHF as once they support LCHF the DRUG Industry will collapse. So, they will keep funding studies like DEVIL to Prove DEVIL is more powerful than GOD.

    margarine the more solid it is the more trans fat it is. margarine is never recommended to anyone. So keep margarine out from your list. Don't equate margarine the more solid it is the more trans fat it is. margarine is never recommended to anyone. So keep margarine out from your list. with SAFA just like you would not equate VODKA with WATER based on color. 14 grams margarine contains 2.1 g Trans fat. It is this FAT which causes CVD/CHD/blah blah and not SAFA.

    Answer to your question in opening sentence: YES a diabetic should restrict CARBS and not only restrict but switch to LOW CARB HIGH FAT DIET unless he/she suffers from FH. If he/she suffers from FH then no option but to keep munching CARBS and keep injecting insulin for life, because all sugar control drugs will fail so insulin will be needed.

  • my life was horrible before lchf diet. Every hour to get in the night and eat roti or buna channa. I was fed up of life. and my flaunting high bp with severe head-ache. No specialist could help my situation. even they did test on my stomak .. endoscopy. finally the doctor give me psychological and sleeping medicine. i eat that also. but situation the same. diabetics was not my major problem at all. My life was so horrible. dizziness. palpitation. With in one day of starting low carb high protine diet i had a peaceful sleep. can any body believe that. i swear on god. When i swich to lchf diet my fasting came below 100 without insuline injuction. I don't take any more gulvus,glimipride,vobit,pioglitazone any more. just 1gm of metformin SR. I got a new lease of life from lchf. LCHF is god to me and you web people and dr.richard bernastin are the messengers of god. Believe it or not believe it LCHF works.

  • dear atma ,

    believe it or not a reduced food ,

    to reduce your weight also would have worked.

    you came down from 85 to 74, and i had calculated your 'should be weight' at 21 bmi as 63.please come down to 63.

    you will still be more happy and will be able to control your bs values.

    this is what i had asked you earlier.

    did you make any carbohydrate counting before you switched to lchf.

    just as you walked with out shoes and got

    pain on legs ,


    you believed that

    acupressure will work for you.

    now again the belief is lchf.

    do you know why i asked you to do carb counting.

    you reduce your weight by another 10 kg, to 63.

    you start counting carbohydrates .

    you will be able to take normal food and get all nutrients.but remember , you have to limit carbs. the carb counting.

    consider the two cases

    a]all nutrients and some amount of medicine

    b]unknown amount of nutrients and

    no medicine and unknown consequences in the long run

    'a -is better than 'b' .

    with out carb counting how do you know you are on lchf?

    you are probably doing not on lchf but doing what i had said .limited carbs.

    good luck.

  • Read his full story.

    He is counting carbs to 100grams.

    Taking coconut oil and desi ghee, 40 almonds, nuts etc etc, So he is on LCHF.

    He was on 4-5 drugs. Even drugs to control hunger, migrane, palpitation, BP and no drugs worked. He had been to 10 different "MD" doctors. All failed. Someone even returned his money.

    LCHF worked. At the end of the day that's the only thing that works. Rest is all BEATING AROUND THE BUSH. No DRUGS is always better. People who have been diabetic for 25 years have also seen the magic of LCHF on sugar, on LIPIDS, on BP ... on just about everything.

  • Dear indiacrates,

    >this is what i had asked you earlier.

    >did you make any carbohydrate counting before you switched to lchf.

    Before i was not knowing properly what is lchf diet. the did not teach me. I was avoiding carbs but i was taking full soya. Even with this my hunger subsided. that was my major suicidal problem. Then i learned the the exact calculation i take carb to 100grams. i count everything in my excel sheet what i eat. also i published here for the benefit of others.

    yes my 4 year old foot pain not gone. but i walk daily around 2 hours. plus 15mts of weight training i do. i am 49 running . but i was like 98 year OLD MAN. now i feel i at at my twenties. lot of energy and enthusiasm. i just got from my lchf.

    before if i eat more than 5 badam i get pipmples on my back.(becasue of hot). now here at 46degree i eat 40 almonds. before i cannot touch oil because of my bp and heart palpiation. now i use 4 tbl of coconut oils an 1.5 tbl of ghee. plus i put salt in my dishes. please tell me the reason. the FAT or THE HIGH CARB made my problem. when LCHF people said to add cheese and nut and oil. i thought it was impossible. but i start with low carb hight proptin. then lchf.

    when in carb diet my food was at all digested. gas and constipation. now i don't know all these diseases. it is not coincidence for me. l learned other people's experience from web. then followed it. i have at least no doubt.

    my problem is not reaching on 63 . but i want maintain in 63. not to go below that.!!!!

  • medfree,i had not mentioned anywhere regarding either medicens or insulin in my post,it seems you are habitual in twisting the facts mentioned in any post .You only know FOUR words namely LCHF.You are not concerned with how long he is diabtic,what is his age, what is his/her BMIetc.whether he is already under oral/Insulin.

  • Diabetics with history of 25 years as a diabetic has improved. I guess i have done more reading in three years than you may have done in your whole life, so definitely know more than you do know. BMI, drugs, etc are like beating around the bush. LCHF is getting to the core and not beating around the bush. Beating around the bush has lead to increasing dose of drugs, increasing cocktail of drugs and still no respite for majority. Problem with guys like you is that you know nothing beyond what AMA/ADA says. I on the other hand know both side of the story. And, one side of the story is as being a diabetic on LCHF. I will keep posting about LCHF on any thread that intends to take a JAB at LCHF with their limited one-sided knowledge based on those outdated guidelines. I would be happy to be proved wrong but not on basis of OUTDATED and FAILED Hypothesis like the LIPIDS theory :)

    People on insulin and Janumet have also gone off the same by following LCHF, right here on this forum. One of the first adopters of LCHF on this forum posted his reasons for cheer y'day. He has A1C of 5.4 ... ADA says it is dangerous to aim for these numbers. What a joke really.

    80 year old gentleman with history of 28 years as a diabetic and a heart patient and on INSULIN and BAD sugar control switched to LCHF and he also has posted his experience. Better sugar control, less drugs, less insulin neuropathy improved like hell, heart beating healthy. So, opponents of LCHF have to come out of denial.

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