Gut bacteria

[Dap1948]

I have screen shot this short article from wddy.com

It’s not a new idea that Parkinson’s develops from gut problems but the article suggests a specific bacteria.

We all need to populate our gut with good bacteria.

[reedboat2]

Daphne can you post a link to the article? Thanks- JG

[Dap1948 in reply to reedboat2]

You may not be able to get it if you don’t subscribe. I screenshot all there was...

wddty.com/news/gut-worm-cou...

[reedboat2 in reply to Dap1948]

Thanks Daphne

[faridaro in reply to Dap1948]

Here is also a link for more information regarding this UF study:genengnews.com/news/specifi...

[Dap1948 in reply to faridaro]

Well found - thanks

[MBAnderson]

Do you know what some of the good bacteria are?

[JayPwP in reply to MBAnderson]

Standard 16 strain blend. A few strains and CFU may differ slightly

[MBAnderson in reply to JayPwP]

Thanx Jay. That's a probiotic supplement label. What is the name of the probiotic?

[JayPwP in reply to MBAnderson]

This was elements life sciences which I didn't order. I looked at different probiotics, including Bio Kult. Most of the strains are common across. Bio Kult additionally contains B. Subtilis.

Currently I am using the below due to no fillers, binders, additives

amazon.in/dp/B08N1DBF6J/ref...

[eljimmy in reply to JayPwP]

bacilus subtilis ......is the good bacteria who can destroy alphasinulein add .. this bacteria have a proteinn call proteasa ............curemoselparkinson.org/arti...

[JayPwP in reply to eljimmy]

That is based on a roundworm study which used PXN21 strain from Protexin.

This was discussed in another thread on this forum

[Turnipbarrow in reply to eljimmy]

Do you know if there is a translation of this article?

[eljimmy in reply to Turnipbarrow]

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/319...

[MBAnderson in reply to JayPwP]

599 Chinese Yuan = $93.23. Is this what you're paying?

[JayPwP in reply to MBAnderson]

569 Indian Rupees. Thats around 7.75 USD for 90 days

[Resano in reply to MBAnderson]

Once again, thiamine seems to help. 60 years back, Matsukawa and Sato in Japan found that eating garlic allows gut bacteria to produce thiamine on their own.

[Resano in reply to MBAnderson]

Let us not forget Mannitol:

"Mannitol therefore supports GOOD GUT BACTERIA and healthy elimination, helping with the chronic digestive problems and the severe microbiome (gut flora) imbalances which are now strongly implicated in PD, e.g...."

outthinkingparkinsons.com/a...

[ladya2020]

This is a study of bacilus subtilis done on worms but may have application for Parkinson's. Its found in BoKult's probiotic MIND sold on Amazon. parkinsonsnewstoday.com/202...

[Hidden]

have not tried this, but may be one option:

solaceprobiotic.com/pages/p...

[chartist]

It seems like it would be simple enough to test their theory as silver nanoparticles (AgNPs) can destroy C. elegans at very low doses that are considered non toxic to normal human cells. AgNPs are not only compatible with antibiotics, but are also synergistic with them and can even help reduce resistance to some antibiotics which are no longer effective due to resistance issues.

Possibly alternating the AgNPs with the proper bacteria to repopulate the gut microbiome with better bacteria for humans would be a basic strategy to test the theory very quickly. Of importance is the fact that AgNPs have a better safety profile than any current antibiotics at the dose required to destroy C. elegans. Dose makes the difference between medicine and toxicity with most treatments and AgNPs are not an exception. Too high of a dose will have toxic effects in humans, but such a dose is not needed to kill C. elegans.

wbg.wormbook.org/2017/01/17...

Art

[WinnieThePoo in reply to chartist]

The worm isn't the problem. It was the "test tube" used by the experiment.

[chartist in reply to WinnieThePoo]

The first and third paragraphs said they think the cause could be the worm, C. elegans that is the cause. Is there another link I missed to another article that says the problem is related to the test tube?

Art

[WinnieThePoo in reply to chartist]

The article was mistaken and badly written..

[chartist in reply to WinnieThePoo]

Okay, I found Faridaro's link where they are using C. elegans model of PD, but this puts us right back to gut bacteria imbalance between good gut bacteria and pathogenic bacteria. This is where the whole idea for FMTs got started as well as use of bacteria that is known from previous studies to be deficient in PwP. Probiotics, synbiotics, prebiotics and fermented food where we have been about a thousand times. The use of butyrate producing bacteria to replace the deficient butyrate producing bacteria for which the main problem is that the few probiotics that offer one or possibly two butyrate producing bacteria only do so in amounts to small to be effective anywhere but a test tube and they are expensive. This is why I feel that mannitol does not work for some people because although mannitol can produce more butyrate in abundance, it requires that the gut has enough bacteria capable of producing butyrate and many PwP simply don't have enough of these bacteria for the mannitol to help this bacteria thrive and produce enough butyrate.

We've been through this many times. I wrote a very long post on this issue with mannitol and butyrate producing bacteria.

Art

[WinnieThePoo in reply to chartist]

See my post below

[chartist in reply to WinnieThePoo]

Ricardo,

Okay, I read it. I feel that their statement about finding the good bacteria is like finding a needle in a haystack, I disagree with. They already know what a good gut biome should look like. They already know that PwP are deficient in specific bacteria and over abundant in other bacteria that healthy guts are not. If they combine this information, they know what bacteria needs to be replaced or over replaced in order to make the PwP gut biome look like a normal biome, so I am in disagreement with what they said regarding a needle in a haystack. With what is already known there should be no need for Fecal Microbiome Transplants (FMTs). Simply making a liquid synbiotic with higher concentrations of the bacteria that are lacking in PwP in an effort to overrun the pathogenic bacteria and include the butyrate producing prebiotics like mannitol or xylitol, should answer many questions and give many important answers and avoid the potential for FMTs to cause the problems they have already shown to cause. A good study using this approach could show just exactly if the microbiome can be corrected in this way, but this could potentially reverse the disease process if it works and when you consider how much money is spent annually on a myriad of PD drugs, there is a lot of big money that would like to make sure such a study never happens or if it does, it will fail miserably!

I wrote about this over 3 years ago here :

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

Okay, I am officially a cynic!!! But I had to vent!!!

Art

[WinnieThePoo in reply to chartist]

Art

You didn't read my post

We're broadly singing off the same hymn sheet

Richard

[chartist in reply to WinnieThePoo]

I read it and I thought my reply reflected it, but I guess I was not clear. I could have replied better, but I am typing faster than what is comfortable for me because it is well past my bedtime. I'm sorry I messed up my reply. Richard, I wouldn't tell you I read what you wrote if I hadn't actually read it. I'm not that guy and I'm kind of saddened by your reply.

Art

[WinnieThePoo in reply to chartist]

Art

No worries. I was confused because you referenced "their article" and your responses seemed to fit that article better than my comment to the effect "plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose"

I apologise for any unintended offence

R

[chartist in reply to WinnieThePoo]

Ricardo,

As they used to say years ago, it's kewl.

Art

[Somic67 in reply to chartist]

can you address me to your post on mannitol and butyrate producing bacteria (if it is easy for you and you don't mind)?

[chartist in reply to Somic67]

No problem Somic67,

Here is a link to it :

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

You will have to read the replies also as that is how I updated the opening post as new studies came out.

Art

[Somic67 in reply to chartist]

thank you Art

[chartist in reply to Somic67]

S67,

I am going to put up a new post in a minute that I think might be of interest to you!

Art

[Somic67 in reply to chartist]

sorry, i don't understand this

[chartist in reply to Somic67]

Somic67,

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

[Somic67 in reply to chartist]

Thank you 1.000 (times)

(letteral translation of an Italian expression)

[jeffreyn]

From the screen shot:

"have singled out a translucent worm, C. Elegans, as the most-likely culprit."

This is nonsense. The intestines of the C. Elegans worm is the model they used to do their experiments.

"bacteria such as C. Elegans"

Same nonsense. C. Elegans are not bacteria, they are worms.

The link that faridaro found is a much better source of information.

[WinnieThePoo]

In a way this is nothing new. There has been plenty of research in the last few years linking the microbiome to PD. My first posts on this forum were about research which showed that the microbiome of pwp was not just different from the rest of the world but in a way that was effectively a diagnostic tool because pwp have common imbalance in their microbiomeEqually the whole point of probiotics, particularly "natural" like kimchi or yoghurt, is that the good guys are mostly transients with beneficial effects. They don't colonise the bowel but do things like change the pH and produce specific antibiotics which target the bad guys. That, and manufacture good stuff like butyrate

For all the headline claims to have identified the bacteria which causes PD in this worm test tube, I didn't notice it being named

[KBGfightsback]

I feel I am showing positive changes by eating a high fiber diet, doing acupuncture and daily qigong. In just a matter of weeks, my sense of smell and taste are coming back, my rosacea (inflammation on my face) is noticeably better, and my tremor and rigidity are significantly less after qigong practice and/or acupuncture. Theory - The vagus nerve connecting an unhealthy gut to a chronic stressed state (stuck in "flight or fright mode - parasympathetic system) creates a cyclical storm ripe for decreased immunity and increased vulnerability to toxins. Healing the mind and gut might just help others as it seems to be working so far for me. 10/2020 Article on Acupuncture and gut dysbiosis in those with PD: sciencedirect.com/science/a...

[WilsonFP]

Thank you for all the comments on the observation of the possible role of the gut microbiome as a ca