Keto and protein : Hey all. I decided I... - Cure Parkinson's

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Keto and protein

jeeves19
jeeves19

Hey all. I decided I wanted to give the ketogenic another try. I tried it about 5 years ago when first dxed but I suspect I didn’t give it long enough. Anyway, protein appears to be a major feature of this diet and as with many others, I find that this adversely affects my medication performance. I’m encouraged by the Kiwi Study of 2018 but just can’t see how a protein rich diet can be compatible with our medication. If anybody’s trying it or has tried and has any observations I’d be happy to hear from you. Thanks in advance

36 Replies

Keto is fat rich not necessarily protein rich. Dr. Perlmutter is a good resource for info on keto that is brain healthy.

jeeves19
jeeves19 in reply to cclemonade

CC I ‘see’ that you asked a similar question a month ago. Are you doing ketogenic currently?

cclemonade
cclemonade in reply to jeeves19

No but my husband and I are working towards it. He gets in to ketosis easier than I do. I’m still just no gluten, no added sugar, no fruit other than berries and apple skins, no dairy other than butter once a week for the butyrate. I recommend those changes as a starting point.

We have two kids who eat pizza, pasta, etc so this has been a real exercise in self discipline.

Last night my husband and children were eating pizza while I watched. It is the pits but it can be done.

What is leading you to try this? When you say the Kiwi study I assume it’s a NZ study? Would you mind linking it?

And are you still fasting? How is fasting 48 hours working? I’ve never done that but maybe I should.

jeeves19
jeeves19 in reply to cclemonade

youtube.com/watch?v=AaiyJjK...

Hope this works! The 48 hours wasn’t great for me unfortunately. I used to manage it easy when I was healthy but PD seems to have sapped my energy and the fasting seemed to accentuate this. If that link doesn’t work, just Google’Kiwi Parkinson’s Ketogenic Study’. I’m sure you’ll find it. Best wishes 😀

jeeves19
jeeves19 in reply to cclemonade

The guy who offers a talk on YouTube is Dr Matthew Phillips and I’m sure that typing this name into YouTube and the word Ketogenic will bring up his presentation

PDGal4
PDGal4 in reply to jeeves19

That link works, thank you. I have been gluten-free for the most part, although occasionally fall off that wagon. I used to strive for eating nothing with added sugar although the past covid-housebound year has created a weakness for chocolate (dark) and sometimes ice cream. I eat cheese and butter, either organic or from the farm, but otherwise little dairy (lactose intolerant). I am convinced of the merit of diet.

cclemonade
cclemonade in reply to jeeves19

Good videos Thank you

I’m not into keto but love protein. I can eat protein in morning 1-1 -/2 hours after first dose. Seems ok. Try to eat 2-21/2 hours after mid dose. Only eat 2 meals a day so normally eat dinner 2-3 and IF till next morning

If I eat sooner after 2nd dose c/l is in effective.

if you are very sensitive to protein I presume you eat most of your protein after your last dose and mostly carbs & fat before that, and then you will not be in ketosis most of the time (ie, as you suggest it’s incompatible with a ketogenic diet).

Protein like carbs raises your insulin level and too much protein isnot a good idea in Keto diet.

jeeves19
jeeves19 in reply to Kia17

Technically yes Kia, but let’s look at the essential ingredients: meat, veg, nuts, cheese, cream, fish, eggs. Despite the avowed ratios of fats/protein and carbs, it seems that lots of protein is somewhat unavoidable? Thanks for posting though. Hope you’re well.

Kia17
Kia17 in reply to jeeves19

I totally understand your points, and I think that’s why keto diet isn’t a workable option for long time.There are plenty of foods however with low protein but high fat content. I am very well thank you and hope you’re keeping well too.

cclemonade
cclemonade in reply to jeeves19

There are vegetarians that do keto. As previously stated, keto is not necessarily high protein. The whole principle is based on fat.

I take ropinirole last thing at night so that I’m only nauseous whilst I sleep! And I take Sinemet about an hour before I have breakfast. I’m on a full carnivore diet which enables me to get by on only one or two Sinemet a day :-) I only take Sinemet either an hour before a meal or 90 minutes afterwards. Best regards, Phil 2bats

jeeves19
jeeves19 in reply to 2bats

Thanks Phil. Good to hear from you. Hope you’re still playing squash! 😀

2bats
2bats in reply to jeeves19

Had to drop the Squash/Racketball - too slow! I’ve taken up croquet which is excellent. :-)

jeeves19
jeeves19 in reply to 2bats

That’s the English side of you coming out mate 😆

Try to work eating around doses not doses around eating. In other words, only eat when the last dose is working, and that means meal times might vary slightly. Biggest gains in my book is to cut out sugar, desserts, snacks etc. It’s hard but should get good results. Harder to then remove starchy foods like rice pasta potatoes bread, but do in stages. Recommend interesting salads with a bit of protein for lunches. Also recommend B complex for energy. Good luck!

jeeves19
jeeves19 in reply to Buckholt

Thanks very much Buckholt. Your input is really appreciated.

Hikoi
Hikoi in reply to jeeves19

Just for your interest Matt is my neurologist and I know some who took part in the trial (none appear to have continued). When I tried the diet for 2 months I got very constipated. Havent seen Matt to discuss yet. I started through a pay site deborahmurtagh.com

Deborah was the Nutritionist for the Waikato study.

I think there is another site called Dr Keto.

jeeves19
jeeves19 in reply to Hikoi

Thanks very much Hikoi. Hope you’re well, it’s been a while. Would you know why none kept it up? Seems odd if it was achieving things.

I tried the Atkin's Diet years ago. It caused severe constipation. SEVERE. The body uses protein to repair itself. What's left over is de-aminated and turned into a carb. I ran a 50 mile race while in ketosis. It was a horrible night.

Strange the timing of your post. exactly what I was looking for.

My back is the source of debilitating pain that prevents exercise so I am gaining weight which exacerbates the back problem. I am headed for a wheel chair if I do not loose weight.

I only ever knew one person who lost weight following a diet. The diet was fatty meat (mostly steak) apples and Canadian rye whiskey, that is all. He lost 45 pounds over a summer and did not gain it back for several years.

I think that the trouble with diets ( including Keto) is that I have to wonder how sustainable they are. I’m thinking of diverting to low carb ( ie no bread, pasta, spuds etc) but leaving the door open to fruit. Berries are the only fruit available on Keto and the idea of never eating an apple, banana, melon or kiwi 🥝, doesn’t really float my boat!

Annieartist
Annieartist in reply to jeeves19

Let us know how you get on - thinking about it myself- was doing fairly well last year but rubbish this year. I don’t know if I’ll ever be in ketosis - I eat huge amounts of nuts if I cut out carbs

Good luck

Hey jeeves19, I recently tried a 4 week trial of keto. It's quite a boring diet. Haha. Initially, it really messed with my meds due to the increased levels of proteins but eventually it settled down. Since I've come off it, I feel like I'm better than before I started it which is kinda a weird outcome. On it, I slept better and more energy. Be careful with weight loss. It's almost impossible to not loss weight it on it. My goal was not to and I ate an insane amount but I still lost 2kgs.

Yes like I said to Gymbag, is it sustainable long term?

Personally I don't believe so but doing it on and off may work. But if I got really good results maybe I'd have a different opinion

The Kiwi Keto study noticed significant improvement mostly by the 8 week stage. I tried it way back when I was first dxed in 2015, but like you only went for 4 weeks. I think that low carb might be the way ahead as - like I said to Gymbag- I really struggle with the thought of not eating fruit. 😞

Ya, it was fruit I missed the most too. Despite what people say, keto can't be healthy long term. Surely there's cholesterol and heart issues awaiting?

No I don’t think it works like that. It really is one of the odd things about that diet. You ingest lots of fat but burn it up as you’re denying your system sugar. You said yourself that you lost lots of weight. Fat is being taken from all over including your internal organs. I need to be careful that I don’t talk myself back onto it here as it’s beginning to seem very attractive despite its obstacles 😂

I think for the Keto diet to be a success, you must reach ketosis . The only people that I have personaly known who reached ketosis used a pill. I dont think I want to go there.

I reached it after 5 days. My girlfriend after 2 days. Its quite easy to do with a strict diet.

Yes it requires real attention and permanent self discipline 😕

It's easy to reach ketosis but difficult to stay in ketosis. The body stores about 3000 calories as glycogen in muscles and liver. When you stop carbs the body uses the stored carbs then has to break down fats into fatty acids. In the early stages ketones are released into urine. But ketones are an energy source and the body develops enzymes to make ketones useable. In early days urinalysis strips will tell you if you're in ketosis. In later days the ketones don't make in into urine and you get frustrated thinking you're not in ketosis.

kaypeeoh
kaypeeoh in reply to kaypeeoh

You have to use up the stored carbs before the body can burn fat. When walking slowly you're burning 90% fats, 10% carbs. When you're sprinting as fast as possible you're burning 90% carbs, 10% fats. Heart rate ca key. Low rates means fat burning, high rate means carb burning. Anything that gets your heart racing is burning carbs. Even sitting in a sauna. So you don't have to be exercising hard to get into ketosis. Fast for 24 hour and you'll approach ketosis.

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