Zinc has some anti-viral properties (it is also toxic in large doses) and green tea has two chemicals that make zinc more available to the body (quercetin and EGCG). So, since I already drink green tea and take EGCG pills each morning , I'm going to start taking a low dose (25 mg) zinc pill each morning while the COVID-19 epidemic lasts. The 25 mg zinc pills I ordered from Amazon a week ago are scheduled to arrive on Sunday.
Zinc with Green Tea?: Zinc has some anti-viral... - CLL Support
Zinc with Green Tea?
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HowardR
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MsLockYourPostsPassed Volunteer
Howard - Please provide links to reputable research for the information you are suggesting about zinc and green tea, as you are presenting them as fact.
Here's one:
researchgate.net/publicatio...
"To prove this hypothesis, herein we have demonstrated the capacity of quercetin and epigallocatechin-gallate to rapidly increase labile zinc in mouse hepatocarcinoma Hepa 1-6 cells as well as, for the first time, in liposomes."
I would want more than a mouse model before trying this!
AussieNeilAdministrator
Hi Howard,
Where are you sourcing your information regarding zinc absorption?
This 2011 report on the Bioactive Dietary Polyphenols on Zinc Transport across the Intestinal Caco-2 Cell Monolayers in humans reported that EGCG and Green Tea Extract "did not alter zinc absorption".
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
I did find support for quercetin and EGCG improving absorption in a mouse model study however.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/250...
This just goes to prove that animal studies are not reliable predictors of the effect in humans!
While there was early interest in zinc helping to reduce symptom severity and the duration of a COVID-19 illness, I haven't seen any updates beyond this:-
Does Zinc protect you from Covid-19 or boost immune system?
(Medically reviewed and last updated on 31-March-2020)
drugs.com/medical-answers/z...
- Theoretically, sucking zinc lozenges during the early stages of COVID-19 may reduce symptom severity and the duration of the illness, but this has not been proven
- Zinc supplements should not be taken at too high a dose or for long periods as they can cause toxicity. (As you noted)
Be extremely careful before you consider taking any supplements and look for evidence from reputable sources, NOT from the supplier or reseller. In my research experience, the flimsiest of evidence is used to market the hope that buying and taking supplements will improve various health conditions. You really need to look for evidence of in vivo trials in humans, ideally double blind, NOT cell studies in vitro with animal or human cells, or animal in vivo studies. THIS is what can happen when you don't do human clinical trials:
Neil
Thanks for your post and the researchgate link, Howard. I find it very interesting.
I still take zinc here and there. Not everyday though. I saw a dietician (cuz I'm fat) and mentioned I sometimes take zinc. She said one reason to be careful is because it can interfere with the level of copper in your body. Apparently, they compete with one another for absorbtion.
"Zinc induced copper deficiency."
Looks like cytopenias can be related to this condition.
Dried Seaweed,
From what I've read, the 25mg daily dose that I'll be taking is pretty safe. In fact, a daily dose of 100mg is usually considered to be safe. Also, if a copper deficiency happens, you can remedy it by stop taking the zinc.
Again, providing a reference is desirable, because taking anything comes with the risk of side effects considerably beyond just developing a copper deficiency. Of relevance to our community, who are more likely to require antibiotics, taking a zinc supplement can end up "inhibiting the absorption of both zinc and the antibiotic". There are also other potential interactions with some medications.
ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Z...
Note also that taking it intranasally is not recommended and that vegetarians/vegans should be more aware of zinc sources in their diet, because "The bioavailability of zinc from vegetarian diets is lower than from non-vegetarian diets because vegetarians do not eat meat, which is high in bioavailable zinc and may enhance zinc absorption. In addition, vegetarians typically eat high levels of legumes and whole grains, which contain phytates that bind zinc and inhibit its absorption."
Neil
AussieNeal,
Thank you for thinking about the possible bad interactions between zinc and antibiotics. As always, if you are taking medications, consult your doctor before adding any supplements to your diet.
I take supplements sometimes. Mostly I am consistent with vitamin D. I had been taking nicotinamide but have been lazy lately.
Just be careful if in the US. It is not regulated so who knows if we are ingesting what the bottle says. I ended up ordering some from Australia since it is regulated there. Exchange rate at time of purchase made it not expensive. Only had to wait a little longer.
One reason I take zinc less frequently now is that I noticed it was already in my diet. Especially fortified cereal.
Maybe we will get lucky and an antiviral will be designed for people like us to protect against covid19. I have a hard time imagining it isn't here to stay.
Dried Seaweed,
COVID-19 will eventually get defeated by a vaccine. It will become as rare as smallpox and polio. The Chinese vaccine is on the fast-track, so it will be out in a few months if it works. There are three U.S. vaccines and a British vaccine in clinical trials (or about to start them this month). I keep track of COVID-19 vaccine progress at this website:
raps.org/news-and-articles/...
So why isn't the flu as rare as smallox as we have vaccines? I love your optimism but I think premature. How about shutting down Chinese wet markets where 3 or 4 pabdemics started from China including the great 1300 AD plague? Let the world send them a bill for 10 Trillion $. Poor animals. I've been there. Yes I do believe in absolute morality...stuffing 10 dogs/cats etc. in a cage is immoral and heartless. Let's educate the Chinese on humane treatment of animals.
Even worse now there is a lot of evidence to suggest the coronavirus came from a virology research lab close to the wet market
Ehh. We will see... I like the theory because it is like a fiction book. I remember reading Rainbow Six by Tom Clancy in middle school which involved scientists creating something I think called the Shiva virus.
The Chinese communist party is certainly not helping the situation by banning research on virus origin. Draws suspicion...
I've got Rainbow Supply on order right now (from the online audio collection of my local library). It's about the only Jack Ryan book that I haven't either read or listened to. Thanks for the heads-up. Now I'm really looking forward to listening to it!
When the terrorist planes hit the World Trade Center, I wasn't as surprised as most people because I had already read Debt of Honor which ends with an anti-American pilot flying a commercial 747 into the Capitol Building during the State of the Union Address.
Fingers crossed we can beat it!
Miss going to book stores, shopping for food myself, and weekend excursions..
I think the science for zinc and green tea is similar to eye of newt and toe of frog. :).
Sorry Howard, I got the coped up covid blues and just poking fun. Everyone is in control over their own body and if you think green tea and zinc is good, go for it. Where we have to be careful is promoting it to others without any support from mainstream science. For me, support from mainstream science usually means a number of clinical trials run by recognized professionals from reputable establishments.
The purpose of this post was to help people plan when, during the day, they would take zinc supplements *if* they, like me, decided to take zinc supplements for their anti-viral properties during this viral epidemic.
In an earlier posting on this website, I discussed research about which supplements complement each other if taken at the same time and which conflict with each other. For example, EGCG (from green tea) and Curcumin (from turmeric) are antagonists and so should be taken at least 4 hours apart. See:
healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...
The point of this post was that EGCG and zinc are synergists, and so should be taken at the same time. I will take zinc during the morning with my EGCG instead of in the afternoon with my Curcumin.
Link? Zinc was the "in" cure for everything years ago. I hadn't seen it mentioned again until the Coronavirus.
I haven't read any of the research myself. I'm relying on secondary sources. See, for example:
mayoclinic.org/diseases-con...
Howard, I believe you believe these supplements, and others you have pushed like pomegranate, are helpful to you and would be to the community as well. I did not mean to be rude with my response.
I am open to any natural remedy. As you must know from prior discussions on here, any time you recommend a supplement for use without citing some medical support for it, some people, including administrators on the site, will ask for your source study.
The Mayo article you reference now as a “secondary” source, comes far short of recommending zinc for anything. I do think zinc has been proven to me a valuable mineral in our diet. But zinc insufficiency is rare. We get enough zinc from natural foods.
Here is what the Mayo article said:
“But the recent analysis stopped short of recommending zinc. None of the studies analyzed had enough participants to meet a high standard of proof. Also, the studies used different zinc dosages and preparations (lozenges or syrup) for different lengths of time. As a result, it's not clear what the effective dose and treatment schedule would be.
Zinc — especially in lozenge form — also has side effects, including nausea or a bad taste in the mouth. Many people who used zinc nasal sprays suffered a permanent loss of smell. For this reason, Mayo Clinic doctors caution against using such sprays.
In addition, large amounts of zinc are toxic and can cause copper deficiency, anemia and damage to the nervous system.
For now, the safest course is to talk to your doctor before considering the use of zinc to prevent or reduce the length of colds.”
The article makes it clear that studies with zinc have been of questionable value. Supplements you buy in stores are also often unregulated and you can’t be sure of their purity.
The Mayo article said zinc should only be taken on your doctors advice. Did your doctor advise you to take zinc? Have you tested for zinc insufficiency?
I guess we read into medical articles what we want to read into them. I don’t see your Mayo article suggesting people take zinc supplements with green tea.
I think if chicken, chick peas, asparagus, salmon and most nuts as being natural sources of zinc that get us all the zinc we need without taking extra in supplements.
While not a fan of supplements, I read every post suggesting them with an open mind and with the same criteria. Show me the study supporting it and show me where mainstream doctors prescribe them.
You are ignoring two parts of the Mayo Clinic article:
1. "There's been a lot of talk about taking zinc for colds ever since a 1984 study showed that zinc supplements kept people from getting as sick."
2. "Recently an analysis of several studies showed that zinc lozenges or syrup reduced the length of a cold by one day, especially when taken within 24 hours of the first signs and symptoms of a cold."
Quote number 2 is important: A review of several studies concluded that zinc, when taken early, is at least slightly effective at fighting some viruses.
Howard I read the article. It said some studies, that do not meet a high standard of proof, suggest that if you feel a cold coming on and take zinc you might reduce your symptoms by one day. The article concluded to do so only on doctors advice.
What you are doing and implicitly recommending to others is to take daily zinc supplements.
Nothing your cite suggest that be done, And I am going to go out on a limb and suggest you are doing this on your own, not upon the advice of a doctor as the article you cite too recommends.
Has your doctor suggested you take daily zinc supplements? Do you have some zinc insufficiency you have been tested for? Who recommended daily zinc to you?
The article you reference just says if you take zinc within a day of getting cold symptoms, it might help.
cajunjeff,
I just noticed that you wrote that salmon is a good source of zinc. I already eat about three 5 oz. cans worth of pink salmon each week because I like the way it tastes and it is:
1. High in vitamin D.
2. High in available Omega 3s.
3. Low in mercury (compared to other fish).
I would add a fourth reason for eating salmon, except that the amount of zinc in a 5 oz. can is slightly less than 1 mg. The supplement that I'm going to start taking tomorrow will give me 25 mg each day.
Hello HowardR
I would talk to your CLL doctor first before trying this. I have heard same thing about zinc, but at this point it is more rumor. Blessings.
I am at the "wait and see" stage with CLL. When I meet with her and tell her what I am taking, she doesn't object. Although she probably doesn't think that any of the supplements that I take are at all effective, she, no doubt, has read the research which shows that placebos work.
Hi there. I see a functional medicine specialist along with my oncologist. She deals with my autoimmune/thyroid function (or lack thereof). I had been taking zinc consistently and she warned against doing that long term. I apologize that I don't have documentation/research on that. She has a nutritionist/supplement specialist that went over all my meds and supplements and he echoed that. I do take a multi with a bit of zinc in it and that is enough for now. Sorry to be so vague, just wanted you to double check to make sure you're in the clear to proceed with it.
I have been simply eating more foods rich in zinc. Panz 🙏💕☘️😍
Extra zinc helps me at times to avoid colds. Green tea is also excellent. Too much zinc can pull copper from body so common sense is needed as with everything else in life. The day we need to rely on on clinical trials to determine our approach to health and nutrition is when we have failed as a society.
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