CLL apricot kernels and green tea extract.

[Curling123]

I am newly diagnosed. White cells were 3.2L. In Ontario top of range is 2.9. I hope it is decided I am wait and see for now. I am taking for now two dried bitter apricot kernels. Read in many posts from US that they reduce white cells, plus green tea extract 750mg. Anyone else familiar with this or taking them?

[PlanetaryKim]

The term "white cells" is a little vague, since there are multiple types of white blood cells that form part of the immune system. In CLL, the particular white cells to keep an eye on are in your lab results are absolute lymphocyte count and absolute neutrophil count. Lymphocytes are the white cells that harbour the CLL, and they tend to be high when CLL is progressing (although mine weren't). And neutrophils are a type of white cell that tends to drop - often dangerously - when CLL progresses. Neutrophils protect us from bacterial and fungal infection, So we are at risk for these infections when we become neutropenic.

So my point is you don't want to just randomly lower white cells because that could mean lowering neutrophils. If apricot kernels can selectively lower lymphocytes without lowering neutrophils... then that might be useful. I haven't read up on apricot kernels so I don't know.

good luck!

kim

[Curling123 in reply to PlanetaryKim]

Thanks Kim. Lymphocytes are 3.2, in Canada means 3,200. I am waiting to see oncologist, just diagnosed last week. neutrophils are good right now, but must research if apricot kernels can reduce neutrophils while reducing lymphocytes as well. So much to learn, such a hit and miss with natural remedies from reading posts. Luckily we have posts to share and learn. Too bad doctors don’t read these posts and respond. Might clarify some things.

[PlanetaryKim in reply to Curling123]

In Canada (at my lab at least) 3.2 does mean 3.2, and that's in the normal range for lymphocytes, which is 1.0-4.0. So it sounds like your lymphocytes are fine for the moment.

[Cllcanada Top Poster CURE Hero in reply to PlanetaryKim]

Depends on the reference ranges,

In CLL lymphocytes are usually 10th to the 9th power, per litre. 10^9/L

cllsupport.org.uk/cll-sll/s...

~chris 🇨🇦

[Curling123 in reply to PlanetaryKim]

That’s what I thought too that it wasn’t high, but lab standards saw differently. I had biopsy of one node that suggested unusual cells, so not sure at this point what is going on except doc said possible CLL. Thanks for your input Kim. Wasn’t sure if the 3.2 meant 3,200 as many posting refer to their counts in the thousands.

[Newdawn Administrator]

I’m pretty wary of the claims made about apricot kernels to be honest and recall reading the advice from the highly respected U.K. Macmillan Cancer Care on this. Unfortunately the link is now broken but this is what they say on the subject;

‘Amygdalin is a compound found in bitter almonds, and in peach and apricot stones. A synthetic form of it is marketed as Laetrile®. It is also sometimes called vitamin B17, although it isn’t actually a vitamin.

Laetrile has been marketed since the 1970s. Many websites that sell it claim it can slow or stop the growth of cancer. They sometimes also claim that Laetrile is able to selectively poison cancer cells without damaging normal cells and tissues. But there’s no evidence to support the theory this is based on. A review of studies looking at the outcomes for people with cancer taking Laetrile found no evidence that it can control or cure cancer.’

Not something I’d be keen to use.

Regards,

Newdawn

[Curling123 in reply to Newdawn]

Yes, that is what I read too. I was just going by the posts I found about it from those taking the seeds and it seems to be working for them.

[Newdawn Administrator in reply to Curling123]

I understand Curling but to be honest I’ve lost track of the wild and wonderful quack suggestions I’ve read over the years to cure this condition! 😳 Some are just downright scary but sadly, there’s always endorsements somewhere.

Best wishes,

Newdawn

[PlanetaryKim]

Well - you got me looking this up - haha! Because, while I have heard of apricots seeds, and their compound laetrile, touted as an anti-cancer remedy, I had not heard specifically of it lowering white blood cells. Here is a research presentation from 2018 that says the contrary:

"Laetrile can promote polyhydroxyalkanoates induced human T lymphocytes proliferation and increase blood lymphocytes motivated by polyhydroxyalkanoates which secret IL-2 and Interferon and prevent TGF-β1 thus enhancing immune response."

researchgate.net/profile/Dr...

Now in our case with CLL, the cancer is in the B-cell lymphocytes, not the T-cell lymphocytes. Still... I would be very cautious about something known to increase T-cell lymphocytes because what if it also has that effect on B-cell lymphocytes (our cancer)??

kim

[Curling123 in reply to PlanetaryKim]

I went on some forums, mostly people from the US with CLL and their lymphocytes were reducing. I don’t think one should take more than 6 per day, but some are taking 10 or more with a 20% reduction. I have read too that they can be toxic and are only toxic to the cancer cells, not anywhere else in the body. I plan on researching more about it. For now I will continue with the 750mg of green tea twice a day and turmeric until I see the specialist and what blood results are, then go back to the bitter almonds, blood tests and see what happens. Seems many are taking them in the states with good results on the posts.

[Cllcanada Top Poster CURE Hero in reply to Curling123]

An apricot kernel is the seed of an apricot, and is often called a "stone". It is known for containing amygdalin, a poisonous compound. Together with the related synthetic compound laetrile, amygdalin has been marketed as an alternative cancer treatment.

However, studies have found the compounds to be ineffective in the treatment of cancer, as well as potentially toxic or lethal when taken by mouth, due to cyanide poisoning.[1]

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apr...

Green tea purchased over the counter is no longer recommended for CLL.. by the Mayo study Dr. Neil Kay... we know more now than in 2008, about CLL and how it progresses. Dosing is very important and you need to have your liver tested regularly.

patientpower.info/video/ask...

[MsLockYourPosts Passed Volunteer in reply to Curling123]

I’m curious to know which sites you are on where people are reporting positive results with apricot kernels. I would like to take a look. In 17 years dealing with CLL, I have never seen a reputable reference about them being effective in killing cancer cells in general, or specifically for CLL, and I have been involved with several US based sites. The operative word, when looking at sites, is reputable.

When I was new a friend (now former friend) was pushing Noni Juice. It would cure me, it would cure my pets of any ailments they might have, and my doctors were just trying to kill me. I was very ill at the time. I passed on the Noni Juice, and put my trust in my doctors. I’m still here, thanks to them.

[AussieNeil Administrator in reply to Curling123]

I'm as equally curious as MsLockYourPosts , because your post prompted me to Google "apricot kernels CLL" as I too have never heard of any reputable evidence for apricot kernels helping with cancer, let alone CLL specifically. In fact, a friend who tried them to help with his prostate cancer sadly succumbed to his cancer. I didn't find any related search hits, let alone mention of drops in white blood cells. As has been previously mentioned, with any proposed treatment, you need to also ensure it is lymphocytes that are being reduced, or you are increasing your risk of infection!

I often find claims of 20% lymphocyte reduction very misleading for several reasons. People trying something new and getting positive results like to talk about it and usually the reason for trying something new is because of an increase in their cancer. What's known as "Regression towards the mean" explains a lot of these anecdotal cures, because when a reading that varies is quite high, the next reading is more than likely to be lower: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regre... Hence people trying something to improve their cancer can be mislead. (They also often later neglect to mention when their cancer again becomes worse). I've been tracking my lymphocyte count for the 10 years I've been in watch and wait and I've seen far greater than 20% changes up and down in adjacent results. Finally, the lymphocyte count only measures the tumour burden in the blood. There's no easy way to determine whether changes are due to the CLL lymphocytes actually dying or just moving into the spleen and lymph nodes.

You also mentioned green tea extract. There were phase I and II studies done by Mayo Clinic which found that high quantities of EGCG extract from green tea (4 grams a day of EGCG, which is a lot and can cause liver damage), significantly reduced by the lymphocyte count and lymph node size in the majority of early stage patients with CLL. As Cllcanada mentioned, one of the study authors doesn't recommend taking over the counter EGCG. That's because the EGCG used in the study was pharmaceutical grade and due to lax regulations of supplements in the USA (and most countries), you can't be sure what you are actually getting.

Neil

[DriedSeaweed in reply to AussieNeil]

If there were meaningful benefits to apricot seeds or green tea extract I am sure a drug company would develop the pill form and our doctors would send us to the pharmacy for it. Scientists are always looking for ways to help us and companies to make money. You can bet at least one heard about apricot seeds and green tea extract and gave the molecular structure some thought. There would not be laziness or a conspiracy to hide if there was an opportunity to make a lot of money and help lots of people. (If they do not care they can package it as a supplement instead of a pharmaceutical and make any claim they want).

[Cllcanada Top Poster CURE Hero]

Here is a good patient guide, this is from the U,S. and while it generally applies elsewhere, some things are done differently in Ontario, and not all treatments are available to us...

NCCN Patient Guide

nccn.org/patients/guideline...

More to do with treatment market size than healthcare differences. We require a rather length process for drug funding recommendations, so we lag the U.S. about 18 months or more.

~chris 🇨🇦

[Hoffy]

I drink a whole lot of high-quality Japanese green tea.

I have posted on the subject before feel free to see my old post.

You can also reference the original phase 1 and phase 2 study papers from Mayo clinic .

If you want to do high doses of green tea you need to do it with a doctor to supervise your liver function

Be well,

Hoffy

[ivy39]

If I recall correcly the actor Steve McQueen opted for treatment in Mexico, which I believe was based on the notion that apricot stones can effect a cancer cure. Sadly, in his case, he disproved that idea.