Can someone explain to me the tie-in between why rebounding is helpful to CLL patients? What are the exact mechanisms that rebounding(basically jumping up and down on a mini- trampoline ) will orchestrate that affect a CLLer's well being? I can see that jogging has helped me immensely,but are there CLL doctors who recommend the use of rebounders? If so why? Thanks, that's the kind of data I am looking for. Has anyone read specifically an article written by a CLL doctor that explained how rebounding helped a CLL patient? This came up recently at a CLL support group meeting and I simply could not answer the individual asking the question. From a total body perspective I would guess that anything that promotes better lymph movement in our body is good. Any thoughts and especially any examples of CLL docs who are advocates of using a rebounder would be helpful.
ARE there doctor written CLL articles that st... - CLL Support
ARE there doctor written CLL articles that stress the importance of USING REBOUNDERS to get the lymph moving?
I can't point to any specific medical CLL related articles relating to the benefits of rebounding jettyguy but there's a great deal around describing the physical benefits on the immune system generally. These links seem to cover many of the physiological mechanics at play that you asked for the explanation of, though I'm not advocating any exercise routines or therapies that haven't been approved by your doctor or suggesting miracle cures. Others may know of CLL medics who are particularly supportive of rebounding. As a fitness regime, it seems hard to criticise.
chrisbeatcancer.com/rebound...
wellbeingjournal.com/reboun...
Newdawn
Not sure about moving B cells.. they are pretty well secured in the lymph nodes ... takes something like Imbruvica (ibrutinib) to get them out into the blood stream, where they can't return and so eventually die...
Rebounding is good exercise, but sticking with it appears to be more difficult from my experience back in the rebounding fad days of the 1980s...
I prefer to grab a camera and take nice brisk walk... shutter therapy.
~chris
Hey Jettyguy1
I am 18 months into watch and wait CLL with significant lymph activity. I have been seeing an excellent Oncologist and also went to alternative treatment in Mexico 1 year ago that helped put me on a clean regiment that has made a difference. Any alternative doctor and Holistic healing site addressing CLL will recommend a rebounder for several reasons: 1- The lymph system does not pump and flow like your bloodstream. As the nasty mutant lymphocytes build up in lymph nodes, swell, and refuse to die off, you are looking at alternative methods to help shake them out of there. rebounding gently on a small trampoline helps shake some of them loose to flush out of your system, after all they are all waste. 2- gently dry brushing your visible lymph nodes may also help shake and cleanse some that are built up in your lymph nodes.
I have been doing this for a year, it is not a cure, but certainly a method that can help.
Thanks for the well thought out reply. There's a medical doctor named Morton Walker who believes in everything that you just stated. But it would be nice to see a medical doc also recommend rebounding specifically for we CLlers .Not as a curative,but perhaps as an adjunct to having a better functioning lymph system.
That is with the theory that we CLLers could benefit from that. So I know that there are countless holistic sites that recommend rebounding,but i was looking for some definite CLL tie in that showed a correlation between a CLLer and the benefits of rebounding.
I spoke to my Oncologist about it, an he basically said "it can't hurt". I do not think you will find many of the traditional medical professionals embracing this, as many do not even encourage healthy, low cal diets, supplements, budwig protocol, etc. as they are completely unfamiliar with it. They tend to stick to the traditional treatments with drugs.
Our lymphatic system relies on muscle contractions to move lymph fluid through it, so any exercise will improve lymphatic circulation. From the introduction of : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lymph... 'The lymph is then moved along the lymphatic vessel network by either intrinsic contractions of the lymphatic passages or by extrinsic compression of the lymphatic vessels via external tissue forces (e.g., the contractions of skeletal muscles)'.
With a quick Internet search, I couldn't find any references of actual scientific studies on the effect of rebounding on CLL, though I've heard of it being recommended by some CLL patients. Also a question was previously posted about it to this community here: healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo... ). Perhaps you can supply some references?
As Chris/ Cllcanada noted, CLL cells engage in signalling to control their micro-environment within lymph nodes and bone marrow, which is where they proliferate, not in the lymph vessels or blood stream: cll.ucsd.edu/biorepository_...
How CLL cells do that is still being determined, per these papers, for example: esciencecentral.org/journal...
bci.qmul.ac.uk/news/publica...
We know that CLL cells do die from studies conducted with heavy water and the progression of CLL is determined by the degree of which replacement exceeds apoptosis, with this study correlating this with known prognostic markers: meetinglibrary.asco.org/con...
BTK inhibitors like Ibrutinib disrupt the signalling that CLL cells use to stay in proliferation centres, so they then move into the blood stream, where they are more susceptible to apoptosis, given they are in an exhausted state. Dr Sharman discusses this here: healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...
I expect rebounding or other exercise will have limited effects on the CLL tumour burden unless the CLL signalling keeping the cells where they can proliferate is blocked somehow, e.g. by Ibrutinib.
Also note that vigorous exercise can cause a temporary increase in neutrophil count, as that triggers a release of additional neutrophils from where they are stored in the spleen. But then they need to be replaced from newly made ones in the bone marrow, which may have constrained capacity due to CLL infiltration or treatment.
Neil
Thanks for all that effort. If I find anything related to some doc drawing a correlation to exactly why rebounding would benefit cllers, I'LL BE SURE TO POST IT HERE! I guess the actual benefit could be that anything that improves the lymphatic system's functionality might somehow benefit the way our liver and spleen performs...so perhaps a plus? Pure conjecture on my part. But it does raise a good question,if we CLLers have the bad CLL B cells resting/hiding in our lymph nodes,does this mean that our lymphatic system no longer does it's job properly or to its fullest capacity? That must be the case,right?
Any exercise has a wide range of health benefits.
There's a whole range of B-cell malignancies, developing at different stages in the B-cell lifestyle and with the size of the cell varying too. CLL cells are very small and do not impact circulation. Circulation impairment caused by cellular hyperviscosity and leukostasis, particularly in fine capillaries can be seen in some other B-cell malignancies, but is rare in CLL and requires extremely high lymphocyte counts: healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo... If our lymphatic system circulation is impaired, a painful and unsightly condition called lymphedema develops: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lymph... develops. This condition is not related to CLL.
Lymph nodes swell as B-cells multiply then shrink in response to infections. CLL just results in permanently swollen nodes. Lymphatic tissue and nodes are strategically placed at key infection entry points to prevent infections spreading more widely, e.g. throat/neck, groin. The spleen is considered a specialised large lymph node. Pathogens are trapped in lymph nodes where B and T-cells interact in a process which trains an unmutated IGVH gene B-lymphocyte to develop a unique B cell receptor incorporating an immunoglobulin and during which the IGVH gene becomes mutated, so the cell and all its offspring via cell division have the identical immunoglobulin. When the B-cell matures into a plasma cell, these churn out billions of immunoglobulins into the blood which lock onto the pathogen, marking it for destruction by our immune system. (Vaccinations simply use this process to protect us against infections we haven't been exposed to, generally by exposing us to dead or crippled (live) pathogens.) CLL cells protect themselves from being killed by messaging T-cells to make them less effective - which is why we are more susceptible to secondary cancers and don't respond that well to vaccinations. So with CLL, it's not that our lymphatic system doesn't do its job to its fullest capacity, (e.g. by impairing the flow of lymph) - it's because our lymph node function is impaired.
Neil
Neil,not to be the dunce of the universe here,but i want to at least understand this. Does it make sense to say that all things considered,with regard to CLL,that rebounding,walking and perhaps jogging does to a certain extent actually increase the functionality of our lymphatic system? And even though our nodes are compromised to a certain extent,it still makes perfect sense to try to maximize the efficiency of our lymphocytic system ,through exercising? Thats really what I was asked at my support group.
I'm not aware of any studies indicating any reduction of performance of our lymphatic system drainage with CLL. As I mentioned above, our primary issue is how our CLL cripples our immunity, more specifically our humoral immunity response, which involves the genesis of new B-lymphoctyes specific to a new pathogen in lymph nodes en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humor...
I'd say that the majority of us can improve our fitness, which provides a wide range of health benefits - provided we don't overdo it.
I have one and think it can be the same as jogging only on a soft surface for us 'more mature' people. Easier on the knees. I feel it also helps drain my sinuses. Good cardio exercise. Can do low intensity or really work up a sweat with arms or use light weights. It's becoming very popular at gyms also. Like it much more than treadmill for inside exercise.
Patti
Hunted around and found a couple of links, which turned out to be the same as Newdawn had already posted.
All CLL consultations have brushed on the topic of general health and exersise and all consultants comment positively on my healthy routine of walking and cycling. Not one has commented on rebounding.
I guess its cheap to buy, requires no training and is as intensive as you want it to be. It can be done in the privacy of your own home, and when you've had enough, you're already home !!
Mike
I have read that the last minute of your shower should be cold water that shrinks lymph nodes to help cleanse the lymphatic system.
--Dennis, 70, 17p, Ibrutinib
I'd want proof before I tried that one. Wouldn't want to ruin the comfort of a warm shower for nothing.
If rebounding possibly helps would using a vibroplate also do so?
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