Pycnogenol and Tinnitus

[bridgeit]

I am looking into alternatives for the aspirin I now need to take daily. One of the products I've come across is pycnogenol. I am looking for a blood anti-coagulant but found some very interesting stuff about pycnogenol and tinnitus that I thought it might be good to share on the forum. It seems that many T sufferers have found pycnogenol helps to relieve T...…………. it would be a double-whammy for me if it does!

What I've found is summarized at: pycnogenol.com/applications... but there are other reports too.

Pycnogenol isn't cheap and one has to take care to get a good product produced only from French maritime pine bark and pure. 40mg-60mg is recommended for daily long term use. Healthspan's product seems pretty good.

Pycnogenol is mainly used for its properties as an anti-clotting agent, so be wary if you're already on stuff like warfarin or apixaban (inc. aspirin/clopidogrel); probably best avoided in which case. I suggest speaking with GP or pharmacist before taking the plunge if already on meds.

If I do start taking pycnogenol (assuming I get the OK from GP and appropriate blood checks in place) I'll provide feedback about its impact (if any) on my T in due course.

A manageable New Year to one and all!

[Mary-intussuception]

Is your Aspipirin prescribed by your GP or Consultant?

ENT Consultant changed my husband's daily 75mg Aspirin to Clopidogrel.

Haven't heard of what you mentioned.

[bridgeit in reply to Mary-intussuception]

Hi Mary, aspirin has been prescribed for me by my consultant for the foreseeable future. I don't want to take aspirin long term, so have been researching into alternatives which allegedly offer fewer unwanted side effects. I've found two that I like the sound of so far: policosanol and pycnogenol. It was while I was looking into these that I read that some people taking pycnogenol have found relief from tinnitus. This seems to be a common theme.

I think it extremely unlikely that any GP would prescribe either of these supplements, but I'm hoping they'll support my choice with a couple of blood tests to ensure that the one I choose is having the desired effect, i.e. slowing the clotting time.

[Mary-intussuception in reply to bridgeit]

The Aspirin had been prescribed for Arterial Disease.

The ENT Consultant thought the Aspirin might be causing / contributing to the Tinnitus which is why he changed it to Clopidogrel.

[bridgeit in reply to Mary-intussuception]

I think that's a wise move. I've read that aspirin is a known tinnitus aggravator. My reasons for wanting to swap away from aspirin are more about how it adversely affects my stomach. My system is not reacting well to it now, let alone in 10yrs time, hence my search for an alternative that will not upset my digestive system.

[Ravi1000 in reply to bridgeit]

Hi

What did you end up doing. I am looking for options too and have come across both of those before but doctors know nothing about them. How are you planning to test their effectiveness?

[bridgeit in reply to Ravi1000]

Hi Ravi, well, my GP's support was predictable and lacking. Couldn't (or wouldn't) offer blood clotting tests to help determine the efficacy of a short-term trial of an aspirin alternative. My consultant was interested in my views about pycnogenol, policosanol and nattokinase as alternatives to aspirin, but wasn't willing to take me off the aspirin.

I didn't give up immediately. I paid for private blood tests and thought I might try to run my own trial to see how pycnogenol affected clotting compared with aspirin. However, the doctor providing the test results was so genuinely worried about the impact of me switching off the aspirin for a non-evidence-based alternative that I decided to abandon the attempt.

Bear in mind that my issues are with the side effects of aspirin on my stomach and not T. I went down another route. I did a lot of investigating and found a product called L-Glutamine which is an amino acid that helps the stomach and GI tract coat with mucous. It is thought to be able to mend a leaky gut and protect the gut from damage. The trick is to take enough of it and in solution form. I took 5g of powder twice daily in water (10g total) for one month, then reduced to 5g in water once a day, always on an empty stomach. It works for me. No more stomach irritation from aspirin and no nasty side effects that come with omeprazole (which also aggravates T) which is usually prescribed to protect the stomach while on long term aspirin. It won't, of course, protect other organs that long-term aspirin use can damage e.g. kidneys and liver.

Finally, evidence indicates that pycnogenol, nattokinase and policosanol do not work as substitutes for heavy-duty blood thinners such as warfarin, apixaban, plavix or similar. The advice I've read is never, ever to attempt a switch from any of those.

I hope this is helpful!

[Ravi1000 in reply to bridgeit]

Hi Bridgeit

Thankyou that was very useful. I am interested in pursuing some form of alternative since I to must take aspirin for secondary prevention after my HA 5 years ago. I am currently taking baby aspirin every other day as agreed by my cardiologist. However I to have issues with gas , pulsatile tinnitus and skin issues now which I believe are related to the aspirin. Maybe a trial whereby a very low dose of aspirin is maintained e.g 40mg .

I am interested to know what Stomach issues you have?

[bridgeit in reply to Ravi1000]

Hi Ravi,

I noticed pain under my left rib cage within a few days of starting the aspirin, which my GP identified immediately as a bad reaction to the aspirin from within my stomach. If left untreated, the adverse reaction could have resulted in a bleed.

Re pulsatile T: my understanding is that aspirin, which is ototoxic, causes T, but not of the pulsatile variety. Pulsatile is more likely to be a vascular issue, which seems plausible if there's a history of HA.

Re gas: could be diet related, especially if diet has radically changed owing to HA. Our systems need time to adjust to dietary change.

Re skin problems: dairy products can cause skin problems. They do not affect everyone in the same way, but milk, butter, yogurt and cheese can be very difficult to digest and cause a bad reaction in the gut as well as the skin. Chemicals added to processed foods can cause a problem too.

One other thing, I never take aspirin on an empty stomach. The L-Glutamine, yes, completely empty stomach. I take aspirin in the middle of a meal, usually breakfast, and it is fully dissolved in 20ml cold water first.

I hope that's helpful!