I gave up for 2 weeks in January and felt ok but more stressed and I got so bored. I have 3 kids, work full time running a business from home and I can run a few miles, with or without wine, the night before. I eat more or work all night when I don't drink wine. I'm a very healthy weight, slim and look and feel well. It relaxes me to have a drink. Saying that I worry because I know that I'm drinking in excess of the recommended limit. My parents were / are alcoholics so I'm determined to never end up that way but I guess something is playing on my mind. I am of the mindset that so many loved ones have passed away (most very healthy vegetarian non drinkers) that I think why not live life to the full and as long as my kids / hubby are happy then so am I. Welcome your advice please? How easy is it for a liver problem to creep up on me!?
I'm 37 and drink about half a bottle o... - British Liver Trust
I'm 37 and drink about half a bottle of wine a day with perhaps one night off a week. I drank a mixture in my early 20's.
Hi,
I think for a woman, the recommended limit equates to 2 bottles of wine a week, to be honest (I am not a doctor) I reckon that if you have 3 bottles of wine a week, it aint excessive.
After having been diagnosed with fatty liver after many years of drinking way way more than you are, I have come to take stock and haven't drunk much since January when I was diagnosed. I am very well and am realising there is a lot to life other than stella artois. My wife probably isn't far off what you drink.
My advice would be to try and make the 1 night off to 2,
Hope this helps...
Keith
Cheers Keith.
Hiya, Well I thought i'dwarn you how easy it is to develop cirrhosis. I was diagnosed not too long ago.I'm only 33. I know I am a recovering alcoholic of the worst kind (really had a serious problem) but it can creep up on you so easily. For health and fulfillment of your life, I honestly would quit alcohol all together. If I were you. It will be hard but the key is ' meaningful occupation. Eg finding other things daily to keep you busy. Reading, watching dvds shopping for more rewarding things than alcohol etc.anything you are interested besides drinking. Keepbusy. I am 7 months sober now and having the best time of my life. If I can stop ANYONE can. I'm on Antabuse from the GP. If I drank I would have a serious reaction. Horrible I can tell you. It's a good way of keeping off it, it helps me a lot.speak to your GP for some advice. I wish you every success and everlasting happiness, you CAN do it before you end up like I did. Quit while you can, before your constantly shaking with the dt's and fitting when quitting like I was......Love Emma.x.The
Hi, can't answer your questions I'm afraid but perhaps you would like to look at my previous posts, from what you have said you don't have any symptoms? Everyone on here will tell you that you are drinking too much as you know but u have to decide like I do what's more important to you, your health or the wine.
Hi. Well I was diagnosed jan of this year with liver disease due to excessive alcohol. Did it creep up on me, no I just ignored the signs, what the doctor was saying and it will never happen to me quote. Opps it did with vengeance. .
I too have/had live life to the full and enjoy, but you just got to be aware of the risks that can lead too, I did and carried on. I used to drink wine in excess and in later days started drink in the morning. Now not touch alcohol for nearly 3 months.
So to be simplistic, it can hit you any day, read the blogs on here. Most members with this condition would admit they ignored the signs. I will not be self righteous, but if you are concerned ask for a liver function test, but this will start the balls rolling and questions ringing asked by the doctor. Or ignore any signs and carry on enjoying and drinking. Basically it's your call, you can enjoy life without drinking, god Would have shotmyself if I said that 4 months ago.
Plea keep in contact
Andy
Dear TipplyT,
It's good that you're taking responsibility for your actions and looking at your alcohol consumption.
You've been given some good advice from the above 'posts', and you've certainly got a lot to keep fit and healthy for.
I don't know if you've had any recent blood tests, but I would like to suggest that you pop along to see your GP to discuss your overall health, and whether they think it would be a good idea to check your Liver Function.
Liver disease is what they call a 'silent' disease, and people with some liver damage may not have any symptoms until the liver has become seriously damaged.
Many people will develop a fatty liver, and this can be caused by a number of factors, including some medications, alcohol, lack of exercise and an unhealthy diet.
There are a huge amount of triglycerides in alcohol (wine and beer especially), and it is these that are the main cause for the development of fatty infiltraions in the liver.
A fatty liver can return to a healthy liver, IF the causes are identified and are able to be addressed.
Here at the Trust we 'ideally' recommend 3 consecutive 'alcohol free' days within a week, and then on the remaining days to keep well within the guidelines.
I would be more than happy to have a chat with you on our Helpline (0800 652 7330), so please don't hesitate in giving me a call.
All good wishes to you,
Kind regards,
Sarah Tattersall
Patient Enquiry Officer
British Liver Trust
This just seems extreme. a safer than sorry scenario which is what doctors often due to cover their ass. The guidelines have zero scientific basis whatsoever. Every person is different period! Studies for fatty liver have been done and what they have found is that there is no correlation. Some people who binge drank and drank excessively had healthier livers than people who did not drink very often. She needs to find out what she is comfortable with. Obvious she is not comfortable with the recommendations. Yes of course drinking ridiculous amounts of alcohol everyday for more than 10 years would lead to alcoholism and liver problems most likely.There are so many other lifestyle decisions to consider and it is irresponsible to recommend anything without further exploration whether you are a physician or not. Physicians often make wrong recommendations based on blood work because they do not do their due diligence as far as the latest research. She should get a liver test.
"triglycerides in alcohol" this is incorrect. There are calories in alcoholic drinks that if unused are converted to triglycerides/ fat. But the calories of alcohol are metabolized first and so any other food you eat will be stored as fat as well as the sugars in the drink unless you need them on the dance floor. How ethanol is metabolized in the liver and what this does to fat metabolism in the liver is quite complicated actually but it is certainly not because of triglycerides in wine or beer because there aren't any. Its sugar and ethanol to be simplistic. But really not that much sugar because its removed during fermentation. look at these stats for comparison. notice calories and fat.
Food for thought
We take half a bottle of wine and find its equivalent in food:
Half bottle of wine (375ml) = 280 calories/1170 kilojoules/no fat
1 Chokito bar (60g) = 275 cal/1150kj/10g fat
1 Cadbury Dream bar (50g) = 280 cal/1170kj/18g fat
1 Cadbury Fruit and Nut bar (55g) = 280 cal/1170kj/15g fat
Apple crumble (200g) = 280 cal/1170 kj/12 g fat
Sara Lee apple pie (100g) = 285 cal/1190kj/13g fat
1 vanilla slice (130g) = 275 cal/1150kj/12g fat
1 McDonald's strawberry sundae = 280 cal/1175kj/7g fat
Subway six-inch ham, roast beef sub = 282 cal/1180kj/4.5g fat
And ...
1 bottle of wine = 560 cal/2340kj/no fat
1 McDonald's McOz Burger = 566 cal/2370kj/26g fat
Source: Allan Borushek's Pocket Calorie and Fat Counter, Family Health Publications, 2003
Note: 375 mls = 3.75 standard drinks. A standard drink is calculated as 100ml by the National Health and Medical Research Council. Its recommended safe drinking limits are two standard drinks daily for women and four for men.
Counting calories
Champagne (150ml) = 125 calories/525 kilojoules
Red wine (150ml) = 120 calories/502 kilojoules
Riesling, chardonnay (150ml) = 127 calories/533 kilojoules
Sauternes (150ml) = 135 calories/563 kilojoules
Sweet white (150ml) = 151 calories/630 kilojoules
Port (55ml) = 86 calories/361 kilojoules
Dry sherry (55ml) = 72 calories/303 kilojoules
Source: The Australian Calorie Counter, Penguin Books, 2001
I think your parents' plight may be the source of your concern: and rightly so. My experience of alcohol was that (ab)use can creep up on you because it can feel to be symptom free due to the body's capacity to accommodate.
I gave up in January 2010 after a number of previous periods both with and without alcohol. During my drinking periods, I would progressively drink more until I was well over the safe limit. Looking back, it is difficult to understand why I would start again, other than it being a combination of stressful circumstances combined with opportunity (family gatherings etc).
Like you, I work from home and this can create special pressures (your working all night is a potential stressor that you might feel the need to reward from time to time) which you need to manage, so you don't need to drink to "relax": there are other ways to do that, just as it is possible to organise your life so that you don't have to work all night.
Best of luck in managing this. I am pleased that you are alert to the potential risks.
Mike
why shouldn't people use alcohol to "relax". That is a benefit of alcohol both physically and mentally to a physiological point. This is a well known fact. If you mean people say they want to "relax" in order to abuse alcohol (which sound like what you went through) then that would make sense but it doesn't negate the fact that alcohol relaxes you in moderation and can be a fun hobby tasting different wines or beers or drinks . Just because something can be dangerous doesn't mean everyone should quit. Probably people would do far better cutting their carbohydrates than moderate alcohol use even if that use is above the "recommended" limits. Not even sure she should have posted on this site since it seems to be mostly severe alcoholics in recovery.
TipplyT
2/3 days is a good start and one to be congratulated. Without stating the obvisious it's now to decide either make it 4/5/6 days or go on a path of controlled reduction.
I understand that day to day events are easily used as a reason for a quick calming drink, but is that just an excuse? Not preaching been there done it.
I had my conselling session yesterday, this type of session might help as well to understand what triggers you to want a drink. Mine was habit, break that habit by substituting with something else and then the need reduces.
But think you need to understand your health status and a LFT test will give you that starting point.
Keep at it and the benefits will come later.
Andy
yes with you on this. I did give up during week for a couple of months but I found that at weekends and or nights out I would binge drink instead - this is even worse! All of this is really helpful. I feel that I have a reason to really fight this through. I'm going to try and not drink during week at all and drive on night's out - hope it lasts - will help me with running as well - I don't ever want to end up being like my parents- very selfish people - my kids come first x
hi,
well I have 20 years on you and haven't been diagnosed with anything. Drank wine heavily for years though and enjoyed it-it became a habit. however-had a random blood test last year which showed high GGts which is an indicator of liver damage-pretty much drank nothing for the last 6 months and things are looking better. I look forward to having only one glass of wine! if you're worried get a liver panel test done privately which will show anything out of range-if all normal then you're ok but I echo what everyone else says-2-3 days a week off and you'll be ok
but again what triggers people to want a piece of cake? it has no nutritional value but people don't talk about it being dangerous. why is any indulgence different than alcohol. People watch too much tv or surf the net too much as well. we can nickle and dime our way to a miserable existence. i believe the attitudes toward alcohol are cultural as well. Maybe we need to examine why our culture is so negative toward alcohol. This amount of alcohol is doing nothing to her liver I can almost guarantee it. Its a lot like what doctors say concerning cholesterol- good and bad. Its all bullshit scientifically and over simplistic. Its just a guideline and should be adjusted for each person. Many Asians don't have the gene to digest alcohol appropriately.
Who are you trying to persuade? I love the "guarantee" that alcohol is doing her no harm. Does it come with small print excusing you for bad advice? Are you in the pay of the distilleries?
There is a significant body of scientific evidence about the dangers associated with alcohol and loads of anecdotal experience - have a look t the Soberistas site - and that should be enough to make you at least consider giving up. Mike
I said "almost guarantee" read it again.There's your small print. You just have to b able to read or did you have a few too many or not enough? My advice is valid considering the facts if you don't like it don't take it. I have actually read the studies.
Is there significant evidence that shows that a half bottle of wine 6 days a week is dangerous? Show me the evidence that says everyone who drinks a half bottle of wine 6 days a week will have health problems. Anecdotal evidence is not scientific. Then you point me to a site that advocates being sober? You think they will be objective?
Yes there are dangers of consuming alcohol in extreme measures, more than 60 grams of alcohol daily will lead to a fatty liver for most if not all. She is drinking half that. You should actually read the studies instead of simply trusting general guidelines.
There are many anecdotal cases of people drinking a hell of a lot more than she is with no ill effects or no more than a piece of cake. Anecdotes make for good stories at the bar but that is all they are good for. I certainly cannot trust people who have a history of alcohol abuse that were drinking double and triple what she does. One person was saying wine has triglycerides in it! People need to understand that alcohol is not the enemy its just a drink.
The point is it is a case by case basis depending on the person and their other lifestyle choices. There is nothing evil in alcohol. If you can't control yourself whether it be alcohol or any other enjoyable pleasure quit, but to give someone advice based on your lack of control or your drunk father's, it is irrelevant.
In her case 6 nights a week half a bottle, exercises, not over weight mid 30's she is probably fine and should simply get her blood tested if she is that worried.
But the reason she is worried is mostly because of over-simplistic guidelines that actually are different in every country as to how many grams of alcohol are allowed per week and day. That in itself should tell you it is not based on science but a guestimate.
You clearly have an agenda. Maybe you should look for somewhere else to play.
agenda? why because you disagree? yes everyone is conspiring to make you drink. If I hear myths and false information concerning the dangers of alcohol or anything else I feel its my right to call people out on their own agendas and bullshit. I believe your agenda is to project your own lack of self control onto others and prevent them form enjoying alcohol. please troll somewhere else next time. good luck on your sobriety.
TIPPLYT
Its good that you are thinking of what you drink and how it can affect health.
One of the issues I am finding is that now I don't drink other than a glass of wine with Sunday Dinner I am beginning to look critically at everyone who drinks. I drunk what I can describe as silly amounts, never straight after getting up in the morning or even in the day until around 4 or 5. My issue was that I used to drink far too much from early evening until going to bed 6 out of 7 nights a week, a mix of premium lager, wine and whisky. This was mostly at home but if I was going out to the pub I would have a 'couple' to get me going first.
As I am monitored regularly for blood pressure and have yearly check ups and blood tests including LFT's, I always thought ' once my liver starts to say I have had enough, the LFT's will highlight this and I will act then'. My fatty liver was diagnosed after an ultrasound scan for potential gall bladder issues, my LFT's had always been fine. Confusingly, now my Doc is monitoring my condition on LFT's which I am not 100% sure it rings true.
Anyway, the advice you are getting on here is very much against drinking again, I would say from my experience that sensible controlled drinking is where you need to be, head the advice about nights off, don't binge and make sure you keep a tally of what you have had so that you can monitor it, its very easy to say and not easy to do but as most of the stories on here say, damage to your liver creeps up mostly without warning which is the scary thing.
One issue you will have is if you like your wine, I have not discovered (yet) any non alcoholic wines that are worth having, I now drink non alcoholic beers of which there are many now in the supermarkets (some pubs are still sadly backward on this), the beers are really good and I still get the taste without the alcohol.
Also, just keep thinking about the good things in life you have (partner, family etc), that is what focused me a bit and my kids have learnt from my experience. One of my nightmares when I was told I had liver issues was how is my wife going to get my camper back together if I am unwell, seeing as its in bits on my garage floor, a bit daft but it gave me a reason!
Take care and keep well!
Keith
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