I was reading through some posts and answers and got thinking. Is the saying ‘once an alcoholic always an alcoholic’, really true. I certainly had a problem with alcohol. I drunk far too much of it and it became far too big a part of my life. To a point where I got very unwell. I was terrified during my admission to hospital, got diagnosed with cirrhosis, and then knocked alcohol on the head. I didn’t want to drink it. There were no cravings for it. I associated alcohol not with pleasure anymore but pain and distress. I haven’t touched a drop in over a year now and have been in situations where I could easily have joined in and got drunk. I was even at a family wedding last year when my aunt went off to the loo and handed me her glass of champagne to hold. I haven’t seen my cousin run so fast in a long time thinking I had succumbed to the temptation of free champagne, only for her mother to return and take her untouched glass back! Howls of laughter followed. So am I still an alcoholic? Was I ever an alcoholic, or did I just drink too much. I certainly had a problem with drink...I know that for sure as it crept in and took over my life. I held down a responsible job for years though. My cirrhosis is well compensated, I feel well and still work doing less challenging stuff. That’s more to do with wanting more ‘me’ time than anything else. I’ve come to notice other people’s drinking more...mainly because I’m sober now. I’ve noticed how much people drink, how they drink every night, how alcohol is firmly part of their routines and how social events always revolve around alcohol. I’ve also noticed how alcohol is advertised and how pervasive it is in society. Do we really need 4 rows of supermarket shelves filled with alcohol of every type?! I just wanted to kick off a discussion. Lots of us post on here because our liver disease is caused by alcohol. Many have stopped drinking, some haven’t but want to, others are trying to cut down. So what do people think.
Relationship with alcohol: I was reading... - British Liver Trust
Relationship with alcohol
Hi I am doing a course (totally private) at the minute which is run by 'The Sober Club' for ladies trying to give up drink. I currently havent said my position because I didnt want to focus to be on Cirrhosis, but the more why I decided to drink. Thats this weeks sessions!! But she has covered on the 'A' word and I wont quote but put in my take away thoughts from it. Are there really 'Normal' drinkers? Normal to Alcoholic? or is an Alcoholic the label we get when there is an issue - or stopped drinking. So whats in between?When someone stops smoking - people say well done you. When someone stops drinking they must of had/have a problem.
My further was labelled an alcoholic - gave up for 4 years but it was always on the top of the list when taken into hospital for chest infections (He also had COPD). When I went to the doctor last year and said this he was very matter of fact - It will be on you record unless you give up for at least 10 years (not sure you ever loose it).
He also gave me the 'A' - Although after coming out of hospital I contacted Spectrum - a part of Changegrowlive and they just said we cant help you as you are no longer drinking. All of you questions thoughts are covered in the course so its common - yes I also now notice advertising more and know people who drink every night.
Not sure there are any questions here but to add to your thoughts
Sx
Thankyou. I was curious as to how the term was used. I too have been questioning why I drunk so much. I think the simple answer is I liked the way I felt after a few drinks. To continue to achieve that meant more alcohol and then it became a regular feature in my life. It was normal to have a tough day, unscrew a bottle of red wine, make supper and then have a few more. The odd G&T made an appearance and sometimes a brandy to finish off supper. Then it was the weekend and after all the chores were done, a bbq with friends and beer, wine and Prosecco. Or in the winter rugby internationals. Then Sunday lunch in the pub and more wine. I’m sure that’s not an unfamiliar story. If alcohol was a class A drug then that would be abnormal. The fact alcohol can have exactly the same effect and that it’s advertised on TV makes it somehow ok.
Yep agree…. If alcohol was new to market now I sam pretty sure it would classed the same as class A drugs. Just now see are where we are and too much money is made from it !
I doubt it would even be allowed and there in lies the question....
Hi Aotea I can totally relate to all of the above. I like your self held down a very good good job didn't wake up of morning thinking omg I need a drink. I didn't have the classical nails, yellow skin or eyes, didn't need the support of alcohol services to stay off alcohol, my near death experience was enough to do that. I personally don't think I'm in recovery or fighting an addiction. I certainly drank over the Government guidelines and most definitely binged at parties , holidays etc. I find it now harder to explain why I don't want a drink when socializing, as people persistently one won't hurt , I'm not afraid of slipping into old habits because I've arrived at a platform where I choose not to drink. How people define an alcoholic is so broad, I don't feel I am an alcoholic in recovery, I am choosing not to drink for my own health reasons.Supermarkets and advertising should be limited,I say alcohol is as harmful as drug addiction and it's legal,
Yes it’s interesting other people’s reactions to me not drinking. To be honest, I find that harder than not drinking itself! I’ve learnt to get a glass of lemonade and have ice and lemon in it, people assume it’s got alcohol in it. I’ve also found a drop of apple juice in sparkling water in a champagne glass works too!
What are the "classical nails"?
Hi Tia and Aotea. Thanks for the discussion. I feel the same way. A few glasses of wine after work making dinner or on a plane traveling for work….maybe a beer or Bloody Mary occasionally on the weekend at lunch or brunch. A few beers golfing. More wine on the weekend at parties or get togethers.
I never got sick or missed work I never knew that it wasn’t ok to have to few drinks each day. I’m kind of angry that this wasn’t properly made aware to society. I am educated and consider myself health conscious. Covid made things even worse here in the US making alcohol available to go…??? I thought you couldn’t drink and drive and now you’re selling sippy cups to go?
The kicker is that now I don’t drink and all of my friends still do. It’s put me in a bit of a disadvantage and made me somewhat an outsider. I had a friend of a friend rudely make comments that I wasn’t drinking when I went out to hear some music at a pub on multiple occasions. Some friends talk about going to a winery.,, It has really put me in a weird situation and I have been reevaluating my circle of friends. I don’t feel I should have to explain to people why I don’t want to drink.
The whole thing is messed up. Does anyone have suggestions? I was tempted to ask the woman why does she drink alcohol since she was giving me hard time to not drink…… but I don’t want to stoop to her level.
I don’t feel I’m an alcoholic either. It was part of society and I was not dependent on it. It’s more cultural. I’m doing this for health reasons. I guess that is the honest truth of it. I don’t need to explain further. It is a known carcinogen.
Alcoholic is a broad name for an addiction to alcohol, sadly the saying has come from experience of doctors. I haven’t drunk alcohol for 5.5 years, but still the gremlins jump into my head. While I was ill and I was trying to repair the damage I had no cravings, now my liver function is normal the “ one won’t hurt “ is back so please don’t become complacent. I now know I can never ever drink alcohol. Good luck
Thankyou. I’m not complacent. I think my hospital stay was so deeply traumatic for me, on all sorts of levels, that I’ll find it hard, however well I feel, to forget it. One drink isn’t worth a repeat performance. I do understand the risks though down the line. My consultant often reminds me too!
Hi Aotea2012 I haven’t drunk for nearly 19 years now but maybe I’m old fashioned I don’t know I’m older 67 now but if you have read any of my replies I call myself an alcoholic with my head held high because I believe it is a illness and a habit of life style. It also helps me remember the bad times and the damage it caused, I never went to any of the groups to help you stop but I know a few people that I have helped have gone to the groups, mainly AA and have found them fantastic. I think what I’m trying to say is it’s all a personal choice what works best for you, but the one thing that I will say like Cat-b never become complacent with it because it creeps up on you and before you know it it’s got you. (That’s how mine started). So good luck to everyone who has beaten it or continues to fight it I wish you all the best of luck 👍😀. Stay Safe All
Dogbot 🐶🌈Dave
Thankyou. Yes complacency is the enemy of success. I’m quite a simple soul and find the black and white of drinking or not drinking an easier rule to follow. My liver has done a great job of getting back to normal (or as normal as is possible!) I’m not keen on letting it down now.
Yes once I had to stop, I found I could. I did try to cut back, successfully for a while, but it always crept back up. My consumption levels were abnormal but to me it felt normal because I didn’t really fit the stereotypes. I feel 100% better now I don’t drink. My skin and eyes are crystal clear. My mind much more focused.
The word "Alcoholic" is outdated. I am not nor ever have been physically addicted to Alcohol, but I am certainly an abuser of it. Sometimes I would not drink for weeks or months but generally would drink in a couple of binges to 30-40 units a week. I know loads that would drink that for breakfast. Family and friends were looking at me weird when I said I think I have a problem and need to stop for a while. I stopped for 3 years completely, but lock down got me back into it, very shortly I was back to binging a couple of times a week again.
Its a fascinating subject. Some of us Alcohol affects more and in a different way to others. If a person does get to the stage where they are physically dependant, its a huge problem. Alcohol rewires the brain and its VERY hard to stop, the reward for the brain when you drink it is nearly impossible to resist, your brain wants it so badly, people literally are in love with getting drunk. You have to retrain your brain and always be aware one glass will likely lead to a binge. These affects also run in family's more often than not. My Uncle has drunk 2 bottles of wine a day since he "slowed down" for 10 years and I dread to think what he was drinking before then, he is 61 now and his Liver blood tests are normal. Maybe a Fibroscan will show some damage, but I am baffled how he is still alive to be honest on 120+ units a week for 40 odd years! Interestingly his wife was pretty much the same, but she died of bladder cancer about 4 years ago, hmm I thought, could it be that all those years of Alcohol passing through her bladder caused the cancer ?
Obviously your boozing has caused you health problems and that was a wake up call. When I declared I had a problem and went to the Drs they were not very worried about Liver damage. They kind of laughed at my fears on 30-40 units, with the Dr saying he pretty much done that for 40 years and is ok. Well, they were correct, not even any signs of inflammation and I then got a Fibroscan and it was 4.2kpa and again the Dr who did the scan just went "pffft, you have been on google haven't you" and laughed at my 40 units when I told him I was concerned that my boozing may have screwed my Liver. Yes, I agree with you, booze is thrown at us from every angle and Alcohol abuse glorified. I didn't think I had a problem for decades because of the way society views booze. I have known boozers to be against drugs and drink beer all day all their lives and they just cant seem to see that they are infact a "druggie" that they look down on, they are addicted to it but because its just "booze" they cant be of course ! The village I grew up in was populated with a vast amount of what I now know to be Alcoholics and alcohol abusers and I joined in on that thinking it was "cool" and harmless at the time. I look back at my 1-2 binges a week and feel bad about how many weekends I wasted being hung over from a Friday binge, just because it was Friday etc. Years of my life wasted feeling like crap, who would do that and think its not an issue? Just who in their right mind ?
Wow, 120 units a week and still going! I suspect at some point it’ll catch up with him. Thanks for your reply.
I am almost exactly the same as you nearly 3 years havent touched a drop. Well except for the usual Cirrhosis stuff low platelets etc. Dont think I was an alcoholic. Maybe alcohol dependent using it to block out bad stuff. I feel that labels dont help and I get people assuming I will drink again at the least problem. It annoys me especially when they get drunk and say it. Well done credit to you
Food for thought.The illness of being an alcoholic is not caused by booze.
The "illness" only surfaces when your sober.
While your drinking you don't have a problem, the problems only surface when your NOT drinking.
Deal with the sober problems first and the drink problems become easier to solve.
I can't do the God thing but the words of the serenity prayer are very good guidance for the newly sober.
To accept the things I cannot change; Courage to change the things I can; And wisdom to know the difference.
I relapsed last week after 5 years sober, drunk a bottle of Vodka over 3 days.
There was an excuse, not a reason.
Did I spoil my recovery? Only if I let it. 1840 days to me, 3 to alcohol.
Thankyou. Don’t let 3 days and a bottle of vodka undo 5 years of being sober. It’s one hell of an achievement. Nip off to the bottle bank and drop the empty in the clear glass container and then walk away vowing never to be back again with anything other than the jam jars!
I can't completely agree with this saying/statement. It depends on a few factors and definitions. Example - I have my F3-F4 from alcohol misuse as it was determined. While I admit I was overdoing, I maintained my f/t job as a financial auditor and my career path was the way I wanted it to be; no problems with family either. The impression is - it is not the quantity that I was consuming but the pattern of drinking and the duration. Also, I was drinking only particular brand of beer and only the particular % strength. In other words, if there was no supply of this particular beer I wouldn't drink anything else instead of it even the beer of the same brand. I drank to help get rid of pain and stress. I have stopped drinking overnight over a year ago once diagnosed and I have no cravings so far. My husband drinks on Friday evenings, we go to beer store together, I am fine with this. Thinking over, I do not regret of anything, I was doing everything I thought was good to keep me going at that point of time, no need to stress out about the past.
Sooo, I am not sure if an "abuser" is always the same as an "alcoholic" going back to the saying you were asking about. It's maybe more like fibrosis-cirrhosis relation: fibrosis is not always cirrhosis but cirrhosis is always fibrosis. Hard to say - I have heard that some people stopped drinking for a few years and then got back into it full force, some continued to t-total. It is in the best interest not to try yourself and attempt to drink in moderation as many failed to do so, person shouldn't assume he is an exemption. I had no problem with quitting and I guess I am lucky to jump off it completely effortlessly based on what I read people are going through trying to get rid of this addiction. However, despite this fact of easy quitting for me, I am not resuming with this habit in any amounts. My liver was very forgiving for me and it was the right time to start paying back with some good stuff. 😍
Thankyou for your reply. Yes, I’ve no intention of returning to drinking alcohol. I have cirrhosis so the health consequences would be severe. To be honest, I feel so much better now that alcohol isn’t in my system that I’d not continue drinking even if cirrhosis wasn’t present.
For me, drinking to get drunk is alcoholic behaviour, if you can have one or two and stop you are lucky. Using alcohol to either heighten feelings or smother them is also alcoholic behaviour.
Thankyou for your reply. Reading the replies has been interesting. Everyone’s relationship with alcohol is slightly different. For me I liked the sensation that alcohol created. I use the past tense. I now associate it with pain and distress...because for me that’s what it went on to create. It was my go to for every emotion. Sadness, joy; elation, miserable; success, failure; celebration, commiseration. Having stopped drinking I now deal with these emotions without alcohol and find that I’m far better without it.
Aotea I’m pretty similar to you. I quit and it was easy and don’t miss it. Not sure why I didn’t sooner to be honest. I don’t consider myself an alcoholic at all. I certainly drank more than I should have but that’s hindsight. The question is at what point is someone considered an alcoholic and by what method is that determined.
Anyone who regularly drinks to excess is considered to be an alcoholic. However, it's a horrible label because of the stigma associated with it. Until those of us who are psychologically or physically dependent on alcohol accept that they are alcoholic, no progress can be made in convincing society that behind the label is an illness called addiction.
Call me alcoholic, retard or a guy with addiction issues but my relationship with alcohol was BAD!
My husband won't accept the title alcoholic. However he struggled to work because of his drinking 5 yrs ago he retired at 55. Obviously that gave him more time and the alcohol soon crept up to around 30 bottles of Budweiser per day.He drinks excessively every day. If he doesn't drink enough he has terrible withdrawels.
I don't confess to understand why ,but my guess is he drinks for the physical and emotional reasons.
There are no restrictions to buying alcohol so I believe it's a harder addiction to quit. All his friends are drinkers too.
I no longer drink at home unless it's an occasion because that encourages him to drink more.
Dear Diamondbabe, 30 bottles of beer a day is absolutely way too much. Per week that would be too much. I hope someone on here has some good advice on how to help.
If not anything else, it would make him healthier and hence feel better. That would bring more happiness. That is the best reason to stop or cut back. Liver disease makes you feel ill.
The quicker this is changed, the more likely a better outcome.
He has cut it down a little. Now on 15-20 per day.Still way too much.
But the risk of reducing it more without a medical detox could be dangerous for him now.
He has been offered this several times by our docter but he says; I just like a drink,it isn't a problem;
Clearly it is, now he has alcohol amnesia, liver, kidney damage and his bones are poor. Currently 4 spinal fractures, arthritis in his knees and necrosis in his hips.
I'm very similar in that associate alcohol with illness , pain and death now. To temption or craving I only used alcohol as a means of self medication after my marriage broke down.. I drank to numb what I was feeling not to enjoy.
To your question and this is the hard part.. are you always an alcoholic:
Years early I had a marriage split and again turn to alcohol, didn't get any health issues as I got arrested drink driving (disgusting I know). From that day for many years I didn't touch alcohol at all (so I that point thought I'm not an alcoholic) BUT when my marriage ended first thing I did was give up n turn to drink (so definitely something underlining)
Finally get to the point hospitalised and diagnosed with cirrhosis and back to hate alcohol and only want to be healthy, basically scared me so much.
Now the question is, if I got told I'm was going to die 8n a week and that couldn't be charged, would I just go out qith q bang alcohol wise.
I hope never to be that situation but it does raise your question some validity
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