Re: Vaccine efficacy : Hello, I have no... - British Liver Trust

British Liver Trust

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Re: Vaccine efficacy

Jay986 profile image

Hello, I have no intention of this post becoming a debate. Yesterday I saw a post regarding vaccine hesitancy and I had some information I wanted to share however the comments had been turned off. There is someone at my work who received an organ transplant and was advised not to get the vaccine as it would not matter because they were on immunosuppressants. I do not know how true this is however my understanding is this individual is still unvaccinated based on what their doctor told them.

I wanted to share that to people in my life are on immuno suppressants, not due to transplant, but rheumatoid arthritis, one of them is in a John Hopkins study and has her antibody count measured monthly (it remains acceptably high). Food for thought, y’all take care :)

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32 Replies

Hi I know people whom have to stop there autoimmune supressasants for 2 weeks before vaccine I also read need to stop alcohol or vaccine won't work 🤗

Was the doctor in question an actual Physician? Somehow I doubt that a medically qualified practitioner would give this advice? Both my Consultant Heptologist’s are delighted that I have been triple Covid vaccinated, post transplant, along with flu and pneumococcal vaccines.

Unvaccinated people are at greater risk of being hospitalised, slowing down treatments that other people require, as well as spreading the virus wider and allowing further mutations to develop.

Jay986 profile image
Jay986 in reply to TT-2018

Right, that’s the frustrating part is I believe it was his primary care.

My husband has PMR (polymyalgia rhumatica ) for which he takes methotrexate, an immunosuppressant. He was considered at risk if he caught covid so was vaccinated early and had his booster last month. Too many people seem to be looking for a way out of having the vaccination. I don't recall any other historic vaccines being questioned in the way the covid ones have been apart from the MMR about 20 years ago which was caused by a crackpot scientist scaremongering with no evidence to back his theory. GET THE JAB PEOPLE 👍

nutrimar profile image
nutrimar in reply to Positive001

People with genuine concerns aren't looking for a way out of having the covid vax. No other vaccines have been questioned because all of them have been through years of rigorous testing before being made available to the public.

Some people will have religious reasons not to be vaxxed (testing on aborted foetus cells), some medical reasons (contraindications with prescribed meds). Some want the vax but have been advised by their clinicians not to.

Maybe we all need to calm down and take a step back and accept the fact that we're all different. And, please don't put overbearing pressure on others to join the club, it just generates division.

Positive001 profile image
Positive001 in reply to nutrimar

The reason the vaccine was rolled out so quickly and efficiently is because the vaccine itself was already there, as has been widely explained, the scientists had to find the correct combination of ingredients to make it effective, which they did successfully by working round the clock and rewarded for on Pride of Britain. I fail to see the difference between using aborted foetus' in a lifesaving vaccine and transplanting organs from dead donors, from which many people on here have benefitted greatly and are enormously grateful for. It's all about saving lives isn't it ?

Rachel299 profile image
Rachel299 in reply to nutrimar

One of the few sensible things I’ve read on here. Sadly too many are allowing the media and government to get in their heads about all of this and it’s causing divisiveness when all anyone wants is to be healthy and safe. As with anything in life what works for some won’t be right for others, as you pointed out. Everyone seems so concerned with other peoples health and choices when the best thing anyone can do is focus on our own health. Make healthier choices in life , you can’t inject health, it’s important to actually eat and live healthy. Fear has done such crazy things to people sadly. Fear does not stop death it stops life and it’s worth remembering that.

Unfortunately no amount of healthy eating and healthy living will prevent catching or spreading covid. Don't forget it's the internet and the media creating and feeding negativity causing protests about the vaccine. Thankfully the majority of world population know it makes sense to have the vaccine and have done just that. Just like diphtheria, smallpox, polio, whooping cough and many many more deadly diseases which could have wiped us out if it weren't for vaccination.

TT-2018 profile image
TT-2018 in reply to Rachel299

Sadly the internet has given the misguided and dispossessed people a voice via social media.

Do we really want a return to smallpox, children in iron lungs on polio wards or leprosy etc, err no? Vaccines have improved our health immeasurably.

Rachel299 profile image
Rachel299 in reply to TT-2018

Small pox has a mortality of approx 30% it’s completely different disease covid has mortality less than 1%. But if you wish to use that as a comparison then get it into perspective: small pox vaccine stops spread, we’ve been told various different things regarding covid vax and now it’s clear as Boris Johnson said himself it does not stop you catching it or spreading it. Our scientific officers and world leaders are completely ignoring natural immunity which studies have shown to be the gold standard. From the start Chris Whitty and Johnson both reiterated that this is low risk to most, the great majority have little to no symptoms. All of the above leaves very little case for forcing people to have this, it’s free choice, if ive had this vaccine it makes no difference to anyone else if they have had theirs. In my case the vaccine poses far greater risks to me due to several factors and my mum has been badly injured by it, as well as blood clots in two of my friends and a neighbour. My dad is vulnerable and he has said himself he wouldn’t expect anyone to have any medical treatment to protect him, this vax doesn’t even work like that anyway but common sense has gone in some people, risks are part of life and for some the risk from covid is very low compared to risking a vaccine that they don’t need especially if they have natural immunity from recovering from it already as many of my friends and family have. If it did stop you catching and spreading then I’d at least see the rational for people being called selfish etc but it doesn’t and it’s not anti vax not to choose to have one vaccine. Bodily autonomy is an inalienable right and it’s vital that people make the right choice for them. You want tha vaccine fine but there is no way people should be loosing their jobs and being excluded from society because they choose differently.

TT-2018 profile image
TT-2018 in reply to Rachel299

Thank you 🙏 for so accurately clarifying my point.

Rachel299 profile image
Rachel299 in reply to TT-2018

Which point was that? Misguided dispossessed people? I notice you haven’t actually come back on any of the facts I’ve stated because they are all valid points.

Theres no issue with traditional vaccines for any of the things listed and I have no issue with anyone choosing to take the covid vaccines, that’s exactly my point, I’ve had all other vaccines, and the only thing that’s misguided are the people saying everyone is an antivaxxer for not taking this one. It’s a choice end of story.

They have always said there are risks of side effects from this vaccine but the risks of dieing from covid or suffering severely from long covid far outweigh those of the vaccine. But sure if you choose not to have it that's up to you but anyone who hasn't had it won't be welcome in my house. No the vaccine may not prevent us from catching covid but it will keep us out of hospital, ICU or dieing from it. Funny numbers of cases are still rising in this Country , circulated by those who refuse the vaccine and government allowing free movement of people and large gathering crowds. I wonder how many protesters outside the COP will get it and spread it about. Still, wouldn't it be mean to enforce a law to take a vaccine for a killer disease like wearing seat belts in cars, and crash helmets on motorbikes to saves lives.

BlueAster profile image
BlueAster in reply to Rachel299

Hi, just picking up on something you said about people shouldn’t be losing their jobs because of not accepting the vaccine. I’m guessing that you were referring to NHS workers and professional care workers?

I can see where a big issue with not having the vaccine comes from, rightly or wrongly:- NHS workers now, have the knowledge of who has Covid and then will wear the appropriate PPE when treating that patient. They will have been risk assessed as to whether they are at substantial risk by treating that patient and be moved elsewhere if they are (that’s how it’s supposed to work, doesn’t always!). They can also, leave an area, go outside, stand by the window etc on breaks. This is not to minimise that to do their jobs, they have accepted enormous risks for many hours, day in and day out, just by being there.

The patient however, has no option of wearing PPE and often cannot change physical location, and in effect becomes a sitting duck to exposure, if it’s present, on top of the other complications associated with an inpatient stay. Statistics aside, if there is any chance of transmission reduction, it needs to be considered seriously by those treating others in a vulnerable position, which is all patients. Just by virtue of needing inpatient care, they are vulnerable.

In other cases such as the flu vaccine, those staff who choose not to have it, despite requests to do so, are not exempt from treating flu patients as this is their choice and they have to accept the risk, and not expect only those who have been vaccinated to be exposed to what can be a risky disease for a few. The good thing about flu, is that you generally feel so terrible that you wouldn’t come to work. With Covid, you may feel fine, with no outwardly obvious symptoms and therefore go unnoticed as you contaminate the locker room, staffroom, every phone and keyboard you touch, the sterile areas, the resus trolley, the patients table, knife and fork, bed, clothes, toothbrush etc. Someone along that chain of infection, will be seriously affected.

We are then getting into a whole messy area of should someone who has refused the vaccine for a variety of totally valid reasons, whether cultural, religious, health concerns orientated, risk related and so on, have to treat a covid patient, just as they would with the flu? They also become more vulnerable than those who have been vaccinated and then additionally may spread it further. I just can’t reconcile it either way in my mind, it’s a lose- lose situation, creating mistrust, low resilience to this situation, hostility and disparities in risk.

I don’t know the answer but even though covid seriously affects very few statistically, the impact on health and social care, goes far beyond the initial virus.

Positive001 It’s not a traditional vaccine thats why it’s a novel messenger rna vaccine which in simple terms provides part of the genetic code of the spike protein using messenger rna so that the cells in your body use this information to manufacture the spike protein inside your body. It’s not your place to tell anyone to GET THE JAB, just like it’s not anyone else’s to say not to get it. It’s personal choice and there are risks for some.

Of course there are risks for some and their doctor will advise if the vaccine is not safe for them to take.

chrisw740 profile image
chrisw740 in reply to Rachel299

Many people have had the astrazeneca vaccine which is similar to age old vaccine technologies such as the inactivated polio vaccine, or most flu vaccines. They trigger a person’s immune system to respond to that disease immediately. In other vaccines, such as the hepatitis B vaccine, an individual protein made by that organism is injected instead to trigger a fairly similar response.

And yes, mRNA vaccines are newer and trick the body into making the viral protein itself which, in turn, triggers an immune response.

Although the COVID-19 vaccines made by Pfizer/BioNTech are the first mRNA vaccines to complete all clinical trial stages and be licensed for use, the technology has actually been around for a quite some time.

Human trials of cancer vaccines using the same mRNA technology have been taking place since at least 2011.

Because the technology can be deployed extremely rapidly, and clinical trials have been so successful, what's really exciting is that mRNA technologies will be an important means of preparing for future epidemics.

The concern that some have had about the mRNA vaccines has been that they could change people’s DNA. But that idea is completely false and has no scientific basis. The (vaccine) mRNA will not enter the nucleus of the cells, where our DNA is.

Once the injected mRNA enters a human cell, it degrades quickly and only stays in the body for a couple of days. This is why people need two injections to develop the best immune response, he says.

All vaccines save lives and this platform should not be hijacked by anti vaxers. The vulnerable need and should take vaccinations as tiny risks outweigh much bigger risks every time. It's about the individual's protection and a civil responsibility to protect others too.

Healthy debate and natural anxiety will never be the same as scaremongering

Trust1 profile image
Trust1Partner

Hi Jay,

Thank you for your thoughts.

We note you are US based. This is a UK site and our COVID information is from the Department of Health and the JCVI.

We would signpost again to this for forum members in the UK;

britishlivertrust.org.uk/up...

Best wishes.

Jay986 profile image
Jay986 in reply to Trust1

Dang… someone’s still salty about 1776 😂😅 jk

I just wanted to share the story in case it might be helpful to anyone. I think the vaccine is a good step in the right direction to us all getting our lives back.

TT-2018 profile image
TT-2018 in reply to Jay986

Well, George III actually had a liver disease, most likely Porphyria. This led to some poor decision making in the years prior to 1776.

Jay986 profile image
Jay986 in reply to TT-2018

Oh my gosh, I had no idea 😂😂

Yesterday booked Me & my Mom in for our 3rd Booster 👍

Not to sure why we would be salty regarding 1776. The British took the decision to walk away due to having bigger fish to fry, that being France. USA haven’t won a single battle to date ( Vietnam , Afghanistan being prime examples of just many, so not to sure what the point of that remark was. The crown still owns the USA by the way …. Google it.

Jan_Noack profile image
Jan_Noack in reply to Sadie9876

LOL

I can see the concern Ask your specialist. He (and the entire household) may hav rto gide for a while from the world for protection.. but when youe specialist says it's ok.. It may not work very well and often not at all giving a false sence of security if on immunosuppressanrts and it's usually best to wait for a while but the specialist will know. that said I am wondeing if those on the liver forum had "difficulty" with any vaccinws as I had a bad reactoi to my first Pfizer . I've been reading taht cell death can 9and has been observed under microscope) allow loose spikes to get into the blood stream.. but the liver cleans these up, so usually not a lot of damage ...but what if liver is damaged?

I am an antifaxer.

I only use email now!

Positive001 profile image
Positive001 in reply to Roy1955

🤣🤣🤣🤣

I’m not sure. I thought I heard that they won’t even do a transplant unless you’re vaccinated? I can’t say as luckily I don’t need a transplant. I have had both shots(Pfizer) and my Dr. said due to my liver fibrosis and me having very bad asthma that I should get the booster(which I plan to) but I have to wait 6 months from my last one.

A year ago September I ended up with shingles(thankfully not bad as was caught VERY early) and I was shocked as I thought only old people got it so I need to get that one too but I think I’ll wait until the new year for that one as shingles isn’t deadly.

Just before panic sets in amongst members who may have chosen for whatever reason not to have the vaccination at this time it will NOT debar you from transplant. There are stories from the USA that some centres had rejected people based on lack of vaccination but there was a statement put out in the UK that this is not the case here. I shall go in search of the press release and post it up if I find it.

Katie

Oh absolutely, I only heard about it in the U.S. and Canada. Doctors should know all the rules and guide patients accordingly.

AyrshireK profile image
AyrshireK in reply to AyrshireK

Found it - from the Organ Donation / NHS Page organdonation.nhs.uk/get-in...

Does the Covid-19 vaccine affect organ donation and transplantation?

You can receive a transplant whether you have had the Covid-19 vaccination or not, as long as you are eligible.

Being on the active waiting-list for a transplant is dependent, not on vaccination status, but a range of clinical factors.

When it comes to donation, you can also be an organ donor regardless of whether you have received the vaccine.

We would always advise people to have the vaccination if possible, as it gives people the best chance of protection against the most severe consequences of Covid.

As transplantation requires a patient to be immunosuppressed, in some cases it may be safer for some patients to hold off or wait for a transplant, rather than undergo the transplant if it will increase their risk of contracting or dying from Covid.

The risks versus benefits of transplantation are always discussed in detail with the patient and kept under regular review.

Thank you for trying. It’s a shame that unfortunately you can’t share advice or personal experience where this vaccine is concerned. I’ve never known anything to be censored like this before. People don’t seem to want any debate or any information (except that it’s safe effective and EVERYONE MUST have it) the fact is it’s not safe for everyone sadly and I have several personal stories I could share to this effect but it causes too much agro. My mums been badly injured by it and no one wants to listen or help. We are reaching a very concerning stage where censorship is preventing truth coming out and anyone daring to mention an adverse reaction gets shut down because it triggers people. As an adult I feel like it’s important to know all sides and be aware of these things, opposing views and different experiences and perspectives are part of life and in medicine there used to be informed consent where you are told the risks but anyway I’ll leave it at that. Take care

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