Is increased flatulence a bad sign of ... - British Liver Trust

British Liver Trust

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Is increased flatulence a bad sign of my chirrosis getting worse?

Flang profile image
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Hi everyone, I'm new here. I have chirrosis and am doing everything I can to try to improve it. I've given up smoking but vape instead haven't drunk anything since September of last year. I'm now on a vegan diet. Walk like crazy every day. Have weined myself off Venaflaxine but still take Martazipine. My lower legs are swollen but do not seem to get any bigger but I have been getting increased flatulence and burping. Is this a bad sign of my liver getting worse?

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more likely to be the Vegan diet. My step sons is dire.

Flang profile image
Flang in reply to

Thanks so much for your response yes thats what my doctor said but I've been vegan since January and this wind, both ways came on suddenly about a week ago? I've ordered some charcoal to take to see if that helps?

in reply to Flang

If you have cirrhosis DO NOT take any suppliments which are not regulated or prescribed by your doctor. Protein however is essential for your liver so there is no need to elliminate lean meat and fresh fish from your diet. You've done the best thing in giving up booze and cigarettes so at least still enjoy some proper food which won't create so much flatulence 🤭

Richard-Allen profile image
Richard-Allen

I'd like to issue a word of caution here. But in doing so I think I should point out that I'm not medically trained, but have gained a reasonable amount of knowledge over the years. So these are just a few of my personal thoughts.

Everything that finds its way into the body, is at some point processed and metabolised by the liver. This includes any creams and lotions rubbed into the skin, or even eye drops. Everything at some point will end up in the liver.

Some medication can be toxic and damaging for the liver. But, the liver is a tough organ and can take a lot of punishment. However, because the liver doesn't have any pain receptors, it can't tell you when it's being damaged. So, we can just go on living our lives as normal and not give our livers a second thought.

Alcohol as we know is toxic for the liver, and can over time cause serious damage. But what if the liver was being damaged on more than two fronts?

I see you mentioned that you are presently taking Mirtazapine for depression. I understand that Mirtazapine can be dangerous for some people and cause liver problems (here is an interesting case study): sciencedirect.com/science/a...

So, if a person was to be taking Mirtazapine, and drinking alcohol, the liver is being damaged on two fronts. If then you were to start adding other things to this mix like certain pain killers, Ibuprofen can be damaging, and large doses of Paracetamol or even stronger pain killers. Then on top of this, we added any supplements and concoction brought online, Then your liver might understandably be really struggling.

If you then consider that you were to stop drinking, the liver normally would be able to fully repair itself in around 6 - 8 weeks. But, if in your case Mirtazapine was also a contributing factor, then the liver will most like still struggle to repair itself as it's still being damaged by a concoction of other toxic chemicals.

You’ve mentioned in another post on here that you are now a type-2 diabetic. Have you been told the cause of this? You don’t say what type of blood test you’ve been having. I suspect it is the basic Liver Function test.

There is another test I would recommend you ask your doctor about. This is called an ELF (Enhanced Liver Fibrosis) test. A normal liver function test is a snapshot of how the liver is performing at that moment in time. However, and person can have liver fibrosis or even liver cirrhosis and still have near-normal blood test results.

The ELF test will show if the liver has any fibrotic scarring or if there’s a fatty liver. This will also give a doctor a better understanding of what might be going on.

Finally, I personally am nosy, I like to understand what is going on. Like I’ve mentioned before, if you can understand what is going on, you can get a certain amount closer, and once you’ve understood and accepted it, it becomes one less thing to have to worry about.

Now, this is for information only so don’t go worrying about this. When a liver becomes really damaged and is heavily scarred it can become insulin resistant.

The liver is like a sugar factory. It stores and processes sugars and turns them into glucose so our muscles have food when they need it. The muscles burn off glucose when they work. When these muscles need more energy, like when you have to run to catch a bus, The liver is instructed to dump more glucose into the bloodstream because the muscles need more fuel.

Once you’ve caught the bus and sit down catching your breath, the pancreas sends out insulin into the bloodstream. It is believed that insulin is the signal that tells the liver to stop dumping glucose. But, if the liver has become heavily scarred, then this insulin signal can’t get through, so the liver keeps on dumping more sugar because it hasn’t been told to stop. The liver has now become insulin resistant.

This may not be what’s happening in your case so don’t start panicking. I have a habit of always asking questions, so don’t be afraid to speak out and ask. When I was diagnosed with having type 2 diabetes, I asked a diabetes nurse why after all these years I should develop diabetes? “It’s your pancreas not producing enough insulin”. That didn’t make sense to me, as I knew I had end-stage liver disease, so the liver becoming insulin resistant sounded a lot more feasible rather than blaming the poor old pancreas.

I hope some of this is of help. I would certainly stop buying and using any supplements or other so-called liver detox remedies, These can do more harm than good. Finally, avoid looking for answers online, but if you do, then stick to safer sites like the NHS or the British Liver Trust.

Good luck

Richard

Flang profile image
Flang in reply to Richard-Allen

Thank you Richard for your very thorough reply . I will definitely ask to have the EFL test as deep down I know I have damaged my liver probably beyond repair. I have now come off Venaflaxine completely and am stopping Martazipine. I knew as soon as they told me I was diabetic it was not good news. Everyone fobs it off with different conclusions but I know really why I am. Can I ask if you get titinus I wake up in the morning and its very loud which calms down during the day. Can I ask what other medication you are on? I'm guessing you are under a liver doctor. I spoke to a gastro about two months ago who just fobbed me off with telling me he wasn't worried as my liver function tests were improving. So I'm not seeing a specialist at all. Thank you for your advice Laura but I'm sticking to my vegan diet even with wind as I totally believe its not only right health wise but morally and ethically the right choice for me. I've watched Cowspiracy and Seaspiracy and thought about it a lot. I think everyone should watch these documentaries. You can get a lot of protein from a plant based diet so I'm not worried about that.

Flang profile image
Flang in reply to Richard-Allen

Sorry I hadn't caught up with the news that you had a transplant. Can I just ask as you obviously know alot re livers why people say to me all the time, but you are not yellow so you're fine! If you have badly damaged your liver do you always go yellow and at what stage? I'm not BTW.

Richard-Allen profile image
Richard-Allen in reply to Flang

LIver disease in all its forms is known as "The silent killer". This is because the liver doesn't doesn't have any pain receptors, so you won't always get to know when it's poorly. This is why many people out there could be walking around with cirrhosis and not even know it.

We are all different, and different people may show different symptoms. Some people can develop varices, while others go on to develop ascites. Liver disease isn't an exact science. So, a person can have cirrhosis and not present any outward signs. Normall, when the liver reaches the end-stage liver disease state, do these other conditions begin to show. Jaundice, etc.

Before people begin to say that they experienced liver pain, l should explain that the liver is surrounded by a thin membrane called the Glisson capsule, now this does have pain receptors. So when the liver becomes enlarged, this membrane stretches and this causes the pain people feel.

I hope this helps to answer your question.

Best Wishes.

Flang profile image
Flang in reply to Richard-Allen

Also I absolutely know I have near end stage chirrosis without even the ultimate fibroscan. How do I know? Because I went for several scans during my drinking non stop phase. One of which showed my liver to be a very enlarged. Even that didn't stop me drinking or taking overdoses. The next scan when I suspected id gone way too far showed a smooth but echogenic liver of slightly more than normal size. Conclusion being it had obviously shrunk as I hadn't stopped drinking and had continued treating myself very badly. But since January when I knew v well I was slowly dying and in alot of pain I then started a strictly vegan diet and forced myself to exercise and I have begun to feel so much better! I still panick every morning but I quickly tell myself to just keep on going and to keep trying to reverse it? Wouldn't it be wonderful if I did? I read about a man who had reversed his end stage chirrosis completely by going vegan and exercising so I'm really hoping I can too? Time will tell but I'm v pleased with my progress over four months. Its not gone or been cured but my determination to not give up is paying off.

I will still chase a medical diagnosis but if I've progressed this far in four months maybe I'll get even better in another four! Only time will tell.

Richard-Allen profile image
Richard-Allen in reply to Flang

Hi Flang

Wanting to do it is the key to success.

It might surprise you to know is that the majority of people who end up with alcohol-related end-stage liver disease aren’t alcohol addicted. They may well have an alcohol problem, but it’s not classed as an addiction. They still decide to have that drink. They are drinking because they want to, not because they have to. Mind you, you will still have to deal with certain cravings and those triggers that are everywhere and all the time.

I certainly don’t wish to burst your bubble here, but liver cirrhosis isn’t reversible (at the moment). It’s a bit like having a deep cut on your arm and later when it heals it forms a scar. That scar is there for life even if you were to cover it with a tattoo it’s still a scar. The liver is no different.

If you were to prick your hand it will heal. If you prick your hand 100 times it will still heal but may begin to leave scars. If you prick your hand 1000 times, well it not going to make it. The liver is a bit like that.

However, all is not lost. Even if the liver is heavily cirrhotic and full of scars, it can still heal itself enough to still perform most of the 500 different functions it does continuously. Just keep up with the healthy diet and don’t go using any supplements or detox remedies. Only use medication as prescribed by a doctor, and even then I always double-check.

Try and get into the habit of reading the side effects label on any new drugs or medication some might say for example not to take, or tell your doctor if you have any liver or kidney issues. I normally type in the name of the drug into google and then type “liver side effects”. Just to be on the safe side.

Just going back to that liver scar tissue we were talking about. And for those who might be interested in this stuff, research is ongoing worldwide into the use of stem cell treatments.

The plan is, to take stem cells from the person's body, turn some of these specialist cells Into this case liver cells and then reinject them back into the liver. After a while, scared tissue cells are replaced by healthy living cells. It is hoped that one day this treatment will replace the need for liver transplants altogether: youtu.be/cEB8656TCIE this video was made back in 2013.

There is a new hospital being built up at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital Birmingham that will soon be offering specialise stem cell treatments. The future is not far away.

(Mind you, what does worry me, is that if you ever see Capt Jean-Luc Picard on the Star Trek Enterprise, that's in the 24th century and they still haven’t found a cure for baldness. Makes you think). Good luck

Richard.

Flang profile image
Flang in reply to Richard-Allen

Thank you for all the advice and information. I'm not an alcoholic more have always been dependant on it to escape. I'm going to continue with my own thoughts that the condition can be reversed as I believe my body is currently showing me that it can. Not something I believed for three months began to believe it slightly last month and pretty much totally believe it now. Just a question of time. :)

Flang profile image
Flang in reply to Richard-Allen

Hi Richard, I have written today to my Dr today re the EFL test. Thank you for your advice. Hopefully I'll get one soon.

in reply to Flang

As Richard said and all the scientific evidence proves, there is no cure to cirrhosis neither is it reversable once the liver has reached this stage. However it can be managed with prescription drugs, regular tests and as healthy a diet and lifestyle as the condition will allow.Good luck

Flang profile image
Flang in reply to

Well I will continue to believe what I want to believe. I can't let myself believe anything different. When I finally get my ultrasound and fibroscan I guess I will be more informed but until then I'll keep positive.

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