Hi, I was told by my consultant on my last visit that she will be reporting me to the DVLA as she says, I have HE and therefore I should not be driving.
I totally disagree.
My question is can I contest her diagnosis? Is there an independent body who could test me driving?
The decision will be made at my next appointment which is on the 6th November.
I am so angry and upset about this situation.
My independence is paramount to me.
If there is anybody out there who could help me it would be really appreciated.
Thank you
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muitnep
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Hi muitneb. I would have thought that if your consultant says that you have HE then they must have the proof of that fact from test results. If your consultant does have that proof then I think that it would be difficult to dispute that fact. Will you be having any tests before or on the 6th of November? If not, could you request them if you feel that the decision that your consultant has made is wrong? Regards. Alf.
Thanks Alf. No results are due. I don’t know what evidence she has. The only test she does with me is to stretch out my arms and hold my hands up. Thanks again
That seems an odd sort of test to me to conclude that you have HE. Has she given you any medication for it? Perhaps other members on here will say if they have had this sort of test or not for HE?
It's getting late now, hopefully some members will comment tomorrow with their experiences of being diagnosed with HE. At least then you will know if this is a normal procedure of diagnosis or not. Best wishes. Alf
I'm thinking HE must be more obvious in people with alcoholic liver disease than for those who suffer from it due to the many other reasons. We learn something new every day don't we?!
it is a test for HE, you hold your arms straight out with fingers pointing up palm facing out and the doc pushes on your fingers, if your hands begin to flap or tremble it is a positive test, some people will flap just from attempting to hold their hands up, called flapping tremors and really is only caused by HE unless you have neurological disorder
Correct, that's an HE test, looking for signs of Asterixis - hand flapping which is a sign of HE. Other than asking my hubby if he ever gets confused and checking for hand flapping that's the only obvious 'tests' for the condition he's had.
That's really interesting Katie. My hubbies was definately severe. The 2 docs with us when l got him to the surgery and discussing what to do next, both agreed, alcoholic, HE, hospitalisation and detox without carrying out that test. I guess the rubbish he was talking( slurring), the staggering and hallucinations must have been the give away?
I imagine that they didn't have to do that test on me. My two short periods of HE were dealt with at home. Both followed sessions of TACE and my immune system would be rock bottom. I was discharged quickly after one TACE session as there was an outbreak of norovirus on the liver ward so it was better to treat me at home than back in hospital. I was completely off the planet on both occasions and so it would be obvious without doing any arm or hand test.
What symptoms do you have that has led to this diagnosis? What medications are you on for HE if doctor says you have it?
Hepatic Encephalopathy brings with it many effects which are notifiable to DVLA on their own. If your doctor has told you that you arn't safe to drive then it is actually your responsibility to notify DVLA. Failure to do so is an offence and your insurance would also be invalid, plus, if you were involved in an accident you could be charged for that too if found to be unfit to drive.
There is a page online re. the conditions that are notifiable to DVLA together with the forms for notifying. From that page you can also go onto the documents that doctors are sent for assessing fitness to drive so you can perhaps see how doctor has reached the decision.
My hubby has a diagnosis of mild HE and gave up driving of his own volition as he just knows he would be a liability on the roads due to fatigue, concentration difficulties, difficulty navigating, generally being much slower in reaction time and movement. No doctor ever told him he had to stop as he already had due to all the above.
Guidance for doctors states:-
Doctors and other healthcare professionals should:■ advise the individual on the impact of their medical condition for safe driving ability■ advise the individual on their legal requirement to notify the DVLA of any relevant condition■ treat, manage and monitor the individual’s condition with ongoing consideration of their fitness to drive■ notify the DVLA when fitness to drive requires notification but an individual cannot or will not notify the DVLA themselves.
In law it is the duty of the licence holder or applicant to notify the DVLA of any medical condition that may affect safe driving. This notification by people with licences issued by the DVLA (because they live in England, Scotland or Wales) may be done via GOV.UK. (page link above)
The only symptoms I have is a scarred liver. I am not on any medication for this. I will be diagnosed on the 6th of next month when she will make her decision. It’s interesting that I could find out what she has said to the dvla. Thanks
Having just read your post, l showed it to my hubby who is a motorcycle instructor and is in complete agreement with Katie. These facts are absolutely correct.
I would be very careful not to drive until this is resolved. If you were unlucky and had an accident then your insurance -I hate to say - would probably be null and void because a Consultant has advised you not to drive. I certainly wouldn’t and in fact I didn’t.
I had to rely on someone else for nine long long months...
You are supposed to voluntarily send back your licence to the DVLA.
They will consider a formal Application from you (using the applicable forms) to return it when you have been told that you are no longer affected by HE - assuming that you have been affected by HE in the first place of course!
Then they send several forms to your GP - and back to you as well - to fill in. You have to reply separately. Depending on your and your GP’s replies they may send you further forms. For me this process took 9 months after my TP, which was 5 months since I had been told by my liver Consultant I no longer had HE - fortunately so as a result of my Transplant. It is a long drawn out process.
HOWEVER, under Section 88 of the Road Traffic Act you are permitted to drive before you physically get your licence back from the DVLA providing that:-
- You have been told you by your GP that you can drive again - of course you cannot file your Application until you have this assurance!
AND
- the DVLA have confirmed receipt of your Application to get your license back.
DVLA will then formally confirm to you in a letter that you are able to drive under Section 88 of the RTA.
You don’t need that letter before you can drive PROVIDED you have proof - recorded delivery - that your Application has been received by the DVLA.
This was what actually happened to me.
I am not a lawyer but this is everything I have learned about this process having gone through it all in the last year. So please do your own research.For info I found that the GPs had little/no experience in this process!
Hi, I had no idea of anything or heard of let alone the possibility of it till I blacked out and hit another car, miles from where I could last remember with no knowledge of how I had got to where I was. Came round a day or so later in hospital and after tests diagnosed with HE. All I can say thank God I had only clipped the mirror of the car, no one was hurt or injured and as I live alone would only discharge me when I could recognise a contact on my phone that I could recognise there face. As soon as I could I surrendered my licence. Being self employed car mechanic all my life, well?? But thank goodness no one was injured. 3.5yrs post now and the nightmares of the possibilities of what could have happened I haven’t applied to get it back. If I had known of even a chance of anything like that would ever happen, ????
Hi chugs - In some respects you were very lucky (not having a more serious crash) but obviously not the fact that you didn’t know that you had HE. What a time to find out ☹️👎🏻
I suffered from HE very badly at one stage so I have a bit of experience in this. Regardless of what tests have been done or not done the problem with having HE is that you don’t know your having an episode. You will think that your fine when your really not and will argue with everyone that your fine when to everyone else, to use a colloquialism, your tuned to the moon.
I eventually had to defer all my medical issues to my family as they could tell when I was starting to have an episode. The problem is that you think your fine when you really are not.
I’m sorry to say, much as it will be a disappointment and frustration to you I would have to say to follow what the doctors have said to you.
If it gets bad, you can struggle to remember your own DOB, age, what year it is, never mind operate a motor vehicle. When you have simple tests done as in, that pen on the table, pick it up, right now put it back down in the same place that you picked it up from and you can’t even do that right, it’s not very sensible to get behind the wheel. You are putting yourself in harms way as well as everyone else on the road.
I’m sorry that it’s not what you want to hear and your not going to like it but it really is the only viable option is to stop driving.
The good news is that it might not be a permanent situation and things can improve and you can be cleared to drive again but I beg you not to drive.
It’s a short term pain but it’s another target for you to aim for, to get your body back in a position where it is possible to start driving again.
I know it’s not what you want to hear but it really is the only reasonable option at the moment.
My husband hasn’t been diagnosed with HE but has chosen not to drive since May because he feels so unwell. I did check on DVLA website and cannot find HE listed but if someone is advised by the doctor not to drive I would think this would be the safest course of action?
I am pleased he has chosen not to drive but it makes my life more difficult as we have three cars that I now have to get serviced, mot’d etc and not least keep ticking over if I had my way we would sell two of them but he can’t quite bring himself to part with them for now.
I hope you get it resolved and others have said it may only be for a period of time. Good luck
Hiya. I had an HE episode in February. I didn't know anything about it, until waking on a ward. Yes, it was ammonia and treated with lactulose. Thankfully it was at the weekend, so it was discovered in time and my husband called an ambulance.
I strongly agree with everyone who suggests you wait before driving. I can understand your impatience, but please don't risk it. I don't know what would have happened if I had been alone. HE is a frightening place.
You are always entitled to a second opinion and if you are showing little symptoms of liver disease let alone HE then it's probably sensible to go down that route. However if you're not going to get a diagnosis until the 6th Nov it's better to wait till after then. Afterall, they may find differently after reviewing you again.
HOWEVER, and this is a big HOWEVER, if they tell you that you have HE and advise you notify DVLA and stop driving please do so. If you dont you will be a risk to yourself and others. Best not to put yourself or others in that position.
I doubt your consultant would notify DVLA. As others have said, the likelihood is they would advise you to do so.
Sorry I couldn't give you a more positive response. Hopefully after reviewing you again, they'll decide on a different diagnosis.
Thanks. I too was under the impression that it was up to me to report this to the dvla. However at my last visit my consultant said that she would do it.
Yes they will give you there informed decision and advise accordingly, then document same on your notes. If however you are in denial or refuse to self refer they are obliged to inform DVLA. Not a threat.
Aside from other medical conditions if it's Alcohol related then one should already have notified DVLA on DR1 which asks for the obvious Medical references, when you last drank more than 6 units, have you any caused damage to your liver, etc.
1. Alcohol Abuse - Revoke License for 6 mths with a period of abstaining & controlled drinking (allowed). Blood markers to prove.
Hello, I live in the states muitnep and have been on this site for awhile it's very helpful. I was wondering how you can be determined to have HE? I am assuming that is short for Hepatic Encephalopathy? I am experiencing what I think is the beginning of HE I am much more irritable and somewhat confused at times,I am constantly having feelings of anxiety and stress and I don't respond well to either or any of my new character disorders (some may say defects). I truly feel for you as I have recently been feeling the effects of my disease in so many ways I just know something is really wrong. I have Stage 3 Cirrhosis as determined here in the states,my Cirrhosis developed from having Hepatitis C (genotype 3c I believe) I took Diklenza & Sovaldi and was supposedly cured or the virus was said undetectable.I then went crazy and opened the gates of hell where my disease of Alcoholism and Drug Addiction and all that goes along with it got the better of me.I thought I was Invincible and I was so wrong!! God Spared my life but I now have Cirrhosis,I am not feeling sorry for myself as I am Truly Blessed In So Many Ways,By the Grace Of God I go.Please forgive me for carrying on but your post has really piqued my concern and my care for you as a person whom we share having at least for me this insidious disease. I have a Disability case in the process and I am praying that it will go my way,I truly don't know that I could perform my work anymore I have had to come to terms with myself I am sick.I am truly grateful for this site and people like YOU Thanks Again.How do Doctors or your health people there determine HE or anything else with your Cirrhosis,I am really curious.I had insurance but I could no longer afford it and I have no resources currently available to me,hopefully if I am awarded my disability I will be able to address my health,Please Pray For Us All!!,anyway I am almost 60 years old and I was going to retire if I lived at 62 which is the minimal age you can apply for Social Security here in the U.S.A. I truly wish to move on with my life this has been quite hard on me but God has made the way and I hope that You are able to make it as well. I Thank You For Your Time and I hope You Will Reply,God Bless You and I will Be Praying For You And Us All
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