Hello all, as far as I know I’m healthy and well despite drinking around 70 units of alcohol a week up until last year when I decided to lose weight and change to a healthier lifestyle. This along with gym/cardio saw a 20kg weught loss, and if I say so myself I am now very fit.
However, the alcohol intake has crept up again to around 40 units a week. Not a huge amount, but if I have an alcohol free day, I really miss it.
No doubt about it. This is a form of alcohol dependence which needs more than will power. I went to my GP to ask about drugs such as Naltrexone or Dysulfiram. She was very supportive of this approach and referred me to my local alcohol and drug recovery service. They have since contacted me to request I have liver function, gamma GT and renal function tests - standard procedure apparently - which are booked for next week.
I’m not expecting any surprising results, but even if this is the case, it’s best to know. I’m hoping to be prescribed one of the drugs mentioned above and quit forever. That will be quite a journey too, but I can see even 40 units is too much and will likely increase.
Nothing to ask exactly. I just thought I’d post my story, as benign as it is. I’ll update at the next stage so others can see my “recovery”.
Best regards all and stay healthy
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Kev12564
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I'm really pleased that you are coming to terms with the fact that you may be doing yourself harm.
You are in good company here, as many, like myself thought we were invincible and liver disease only happens to other people, especially the 'real drinkers.' I discovered too late that my alcohol intake was, despite wishful thinking, creating havoc with my liver. Luckily, I did survive and went on to have a very successful transplant.
I hope that when you get the results and they are either perfect and no harm done or slight and totally reversible damage. Certainly, from what you have said (no promises) I doubt if you will go down the life changing route.
Whatever the result, use this as a message from yourself, to yourself that we only have one life and its best to have a healthy one. As for giving up, there is definitely life without alcohol. In fact its really just the same, just sober and not as expensive.
In the meantime, take full advantage of the counselling and recovery services, use it to learn about yourself and make any necessary changes. You might surprise yourself and find the whole process easy and not as challenging as you may have feared.
Snap, could have written your story about myself, from invincible to transplant. My father was a heavy drinker and still going strong at 86, albeit with only the occasional tipple now. Carried on in the belief that the same would be for me, sod the health warnings ‘what do they know?’.
Pancreatic pseudo cyst only slowed me for a few months. Back to the same gastroenterologist consultant 8 years later, cirrhosis and a few years left if nothing changes. Was she talking to me, can not see anyone else in the room.
Took it on board, stopped drinking immediately and went through the houses. Transplanted 3.5 years later, just over two months ago.
Life works without the demon liquid, onwards and forwards.
Take care of yourself LAJ123, follow the medical folks advice and there is plenty of advice, SMART is very good.
in reply to
Hey up snoutie
I was an alcohol plonker untiil 4.5 years ago and had a tp 10 weeks ago so nearly Snap 😁
Miles
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in reply to
Hi Miles,
Apologies if I came across as pessimistic, in the past I would have said half full, half empty-just drink the stuff!
The enormity of where I have been and things go from here are dawning on me. Do you find all your efforts went into the transplant and gave little thought to the afterwards?
Anyway, grateful to be alive and will move forward in an optimistic mindset.
No problem flagging that one up, probably a bit tired after a day trip to France and Belgium, my first trip abroad for over three years.
Best,
Mark
in reply to
Hi Mark
Hmm I replied earlier but my reply has gone! So here goes again. I deleted my post because I was unfairly critical, butI must have bee too late because you have responded to my “deleted” post. So I’m sorry for that. 😐
Yes all my thoughts went into the tp because I naively thought everything would be great post tp 😁. This was especially so when, at the two day assessment, a transplantee told us about his experiences.this was great EXCEPT he said the T/P didn’t hurt! He was right until the time you come around after the T/P, then and for a few weeks after, it hurt like hell (sorry to anyone awaiting a T/P - but you may be a lucky one and have no pain). But no pain no gain is so so true. The T/P is the best thing that’s ever happened to me!
So Mark, I’m glad you’re optimistic!
Miles
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in reply to
Thanks for the reply Miles, it’s a difficult subject when you realise what end stage means. Nobody really explained it to me and as far as I am concerned, if you google it, all over before you log off.
The pain thing, couldn’t agree more. When the catheter came out walking to the ‘facilities’ was a nightmare.
All good now, everything moving forward and all being well, a bright future ahead, all thanks to the NHS.
Good luck with your tests, fingers crossed that they do come out ok and you are still as fit as you hope you are. As you've acknowledged you are drinking at a dangerously high level and you'll be one of the lucky ones if you haven't sustained some degree of liver damage at that sort of intake. Fingers crossed now you've hit this point and have the desire to quit you get all help to do so. The British Liver Trust has an excellent page on Alcohol and the liver which might be worth a look as guidance. (At the moment I can't get BLT page to open but when I do i'll edit post with link).
Hi jim - strange things here - I saw the post and there were no replies so I spent 10 minutes writing one of my verbose replies, posted it and suddenly all these replies appeared! I deleted it now because I was just repeating others!
Hi CocoNutWater. Roughly 6 years ago I remember my Specialist at gastroenterology clinic asked me how much alcohol I drank. I answered honestly that on average I drank 3 - 4 bottles of red wine a week. He told me that it was way too much. I remember replying that I had worked hard all my life and that if I couldn't enjoy a relax and a glass of wine at this time in my life then what's it all about? and that I didn't intend to give up. Oh how I ate my words 2 years later when I was diagnosed with liver cancer! I then went through four awful years of treatment (awful for me and my family!) and was then extremely fortunate enough (when I entered end stage liver failure) to be offered the chance of a transplant (which I had ten weeks ago). They say that hindsight is a wonderful thing. I only know that if I could go back and change things then I certainly would and that would have saved me and the family years of stress and anguish. some people can drink far more than I did and get away with it but a lot of people can't. So I would say think carefully about your future, it really is (still hopefully) in your hands! Wishing you good results and all the very best. Alfred.
Thanks all for taking the time to reply. I realise i had a typo in my original post. I said I was “not fit” but meant to write “now fit”. I realise going to the gym and being in reasonable physical/cardio shape doesn’t mean a healthy liver, but it can’t do any harm (unlike the alcohol). I’m not overly worried about the blood tests (required by the alcohol recovery service in order to move forward and prescribe drugs to help stop cravings), and I’m fully expecting a fatty liver diagnosis. If any worse, then so be it. I need the kick up the behind to quit because moderate drinking isn’t going to happen in my case unfortunately.
What I will say is the GP was pretty good about my enquiry as was the alcohol recovery service counsellor. There was no tut tutting. Anyone worried about drinking should definitely ask their GP for advice.
Hi, good luck with the tests. Hope you have nothing to worry about. All the very best x
Good luck with giving up drinking and your healthier lifestyle. I would just suggest you and your GP look closely into the drugs you are considering taking to help with your addiction. They may well come with a whole host of side effects which require medication to counteract them..... more drugs which could further damage your liver. Have you considered counselling instead?
Hi, well done you. I was in your situation 6 years ago, went to local drug and alcohol services and was assigned a counsellor and nurse. Agreed was a home detox supervised over 24 hours and with diiazipam. After that, it took 90 mg I felt like a new person and also had vitamin b vitamins injected into muscle. Good luck to you and hope you get the help.
Thanks Jules45, that’s a story that ended well. Up to now, I’ve been OK “giving up” on my own, but after 2 or 3 weeks, I start again, although admittedly at a lower level than I used to. This is mainly because I know how many calories are in booze and how hard I’ll then have to work in the gym
Laughs aside, 40 units* is a lot, and more worryingly is my urge for more hence my wish to stop.
*i’m quite sure tens of thousands of brits reach 40 units a week and consider themselves fine. That may be the case, but I feel unsatisfied with 40 units and at present have the will power to stop after 5 units in a day. This urge is the bigger worry to me, and is my main reason to quit.
Laura009, I’m open minded. I don’t think the alcohol recovery service will prescribe drugs without some form of counselling, so we’ll see.
You have already conquered the 1st big hurdle by admitting you need help. My lst relationship ended because I could not bear to see my man killing himself. His maxim was a galln a day makes a proper man! He founs he had a rare throat cancer a few weeks after we met, I stuck by him every step of the way. He got his 3 year survivor badge but his drinking soon reached overload after 6 months of his live or die surgery. I knew he drank too much. He had to be de toxed before surgery. When e asked what librium was I told him straight. He didnt touch wines or spirits and considered himself in no danger. His pesonality changed, from a happy daft drinker to an nasty person. I gave him endless chances but the straw that broke the camel's back was telling me to F off in a restaurant, in a very loud voice! . I dont drink at all but I was prepared to help him to conquer his drinking.It was painful for me to do this but it was affecting me greatly, I had witnessed him losing a few friends to alcohol and even that didnt jolt him. You have been very brave realising that you have to stop. Ironic that I now have NALD, caused by Methotrexate. Every good wish for fighting and beating this, God willing your liver has survived .Hazel
Thanks Radnor, I feel so sorry for people posting on here who have non-alcohol-related liver problems. Hope you’re doing well.
I wasn’t always pleasant to my wife, either, when I was on 70 units a week. I never swore or anything worse, but if I had something to complain about, she’d get it with both barrels. How pathetic in retrospect and made wiorse by the fact she doesn’t drink. I’m less of a bad guy on 40 units I guess, but it’d be easier for both of us to make it zero.
Hello again, I hope everyone is well. To recap, I am/was drinking 40 units a week, although I drunk a lot more than that up until a year ago. I told my GP I wanted to quit altogether and asked about drugs such as disulfiram (which makes you feel very ill if you take alcohol), and she referred me to a local support group who in turn asked me to do a blood test for liver function, renal function and Gamma GT.
Before I go on, I should point out my 40 units a week is regularly "interrupted" by two to three weeks at a time where I don't drink at all. As of today, for example, I haven't had any alcohol since the weekend before last, but in the past something with alcohol has always come along such as a party or holiday, and the cycle of 40 units a week starts again. Also, if I do say so myself, I am extremely fit and active with gym, cardio and sports. My resting pulse is 47*, which doctors say puts me in the same class as an athlete. That's going a bit far, but my opinion is an active lifestyle will help your body, although by no means am I saying going to the gym means you can drink too much.
* My watch measures my resting/sleeping pulse, and after drinking maybe 5 or 6 units, the figure of 47 goes up to around 53 or 55 but comes down again after a couple of alcohol-free days. The effects of alcohol are there to see.
OK, I wrote the above as my blood test results turned out to be something of an anti-climax. Liver and renal are OK, and my Gamma GT figure was 22 (I believe anything under 45 is normal). Nevertheless, I'll continue with the support group and hopefully have some drugs and/or counselling.
I have to question the significance of the blood test results, though. For over a decade, I was on 70 units a week before changing my lifestyle and dropping down to 40 units a year ago. My liver must certainly have been damaged, but the test results are normal. I could do other tests, but I'm not that concerned as long as I quit now.
So, that's my update, I wanted to add the caveats above not to boast but rather I'd be mortified if anyone reading thought 40 units must be OK based on my blood test results. I only got the blood test done as the support group requested these, and whilst I'm relieved the results are normal, I know 40 units is way too much for anyone and am going forward with the support group.
Hello again, so my shiny new blood test results were sent to my local support group who then called me to make an appointment. I’m going to sound harsh here, but here goes.
The counsellor left me a voicemail asking to call her back, but she didn’t say her number. No major problem so far, just an odd telephone manner perhaps. I then managed to get through to her, and I have to say she sound totally uninterested. I asked what her background was as I was curious and received the reply, “I’m a psychology graduate” and that was that. I was expecting an element of bedside manner maybe, and she doesn’t have this.
As I say, I’m sounding harsh, but it’ll take a lot of time (off work) and travelling to see this counsellor, and I will be mightily frustrated if she’s no help.
To recap, I wanted to be prescribed a drug such as disulfiram. In the last three weeks, I’ve drunk a grand total of 16 units, so if this counsellor won’t help, and I’m afraid I doubt if she can, I’ll have to sort myself.
So has anyone had counselling? Did it help?
Thanks all. Sorry for the minor rant
Alcoholic liver disease seems to only happen in a small amount of people with heavy drinking habits. So even if you are still healthy in regards to the liver. Keep in mind alcohol affects a myriad of different parts of the body in heavy consumption such as the pancreas gall bladder kidneys intestines nervous system bones causes heamotological abnormalities etc. Barring you never get any of those really at the end of the day hea t drinking just generally makes us feel like shite and effects mood incredibly. My suggestion is that if you get a clean bill and dont want to give up drinking that you really focus on getting into a moderate amount. That being said you'd have to be the one fo decide if you can or cannot do that
Hi (Alcoholic liver disease seems to only happen in a small amount of people with heavy drinking habits) , can you point us to this evidence please , Im confused.
Regards
Gandonas
You can find that info pretty much anywhere. Chronic alcoholic liver disease certainly is not a definite thing to happen to all people. It's only about 10-15% (20% in some studies) of heavy long term drinkers that will go on to develop chronic liver disease. That info can literally be found all over and can probably be found on this site. I'll try to get a link for you.
Thanks , I will look around too , dare say Ive probably taken it as gospel that heavy drinking throughout ones life leads to liver failure in all cases. Id be delighted if you message me direct. Cheers , Graham
One could definitely drink to liver failure. That can happen completely without disease though. As an example We had a local band from my city called Sum41that was quite internationally successful and the singer was rushed to hospital with acute liver failure from drinking. He made it through ( barely). But he was told he had not permanent damage whatsoever. So it certainly can happen
Interesting discussion about whether or not heavy drinking causes liver damage in only a number of people. I would rather ask the question if heavy drinking has any health benefits at all. The answer will be no,
Quick update, via my GP and a counselling charity (which was the only way although I didn’t find the counselling useful I’m sorry to say), I have started taking Campral/Acamprosate, which is a prescription drug to reduce or hopefully remove alcohol cravings. The drug I had been considering, Antabuse/disulphirsm, makes you violently ill if you drink or even touch alcohol, so that sounds a last resort.
For the last few months, I’d grown bored of drinking anyway, I might get the urge again, though, so hopefully the Campral will reduce such urges.
I get the impression if you want to drink whilst taking Campral, you will and its effectivity will be reduced. However, I have to pay (£8.80) for my own prescriptions, and that’s another good thing. It seems daft to pay £8.80 for a month’s supply and then waste that money by drinking.
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