I'm in a position where I'm getting an awful of symptoms that would seemingly indicate Liver Damage, but all Complete Blood Counts so far & scans say no.
Doctor isn't keen on a Liver Biopsy without bloods indicating anything wrong, which is a totally understandable position.
Which is where the FibroTest comes in as a possible compromise. Only just started reading about these but from what I gather it costs about £300 to do.
So, anybody had one and if so was done privately or is this something available through the NHS?
If you had less than perfect -or even downright bad- results from the test, did they carry any weight & were they acted upon?
Many thanks, Tim
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Hi Tim, What are your symptoms if you dont mind saying. I have had lots of symptoms over the last few years but all blood tests and scans (ultrasound) have come back clear.
When you say Fibro test do you mean Fibroscan? I have had two of those as well first one last year measuring 6.7 and this year it was 6.3, "apparently" if you are under 7 you are ok but there are differing opionions on this. There are ALOT of variations on Liver Disease I think. Have you looked at the Liver Trust website, that gives you alot of information but alot of these tests you can have are "in my opinion" not conclusive and you can still have something going on but all tests are clear.. That probably does not help you I am afraid.
I had my Fibroscans done though the Liver Trust which is a charity they do a roadshow each January so I am afraid you have just missed it. Am assuming you live in the UK.
Your doctor may refer you to have a Fibroscan done if you ask nicely?
I think the test best suited to me would be a FibroMax done by BioPredictive Labs. They operate out of London, Cambridge & Newcastle. This is the one they recommend for Alcoholic Liver Disease. It's a blood test which looks at various Liver serums to asses levels of Fibrosis/Cirrhosis/Steatosis etc.
I'm not 100% sure but I don't think this is connected in any way to the Fibroscan procedures you mention. A pity I missed the BLT roadshow though because I'd have had one of those. But if I have to pay myself, my preference would be for the bloods.
Ahhh not heard of this before. Very interesting to see how different it is to all the other tests. Thanks for posting. Keep us up to date with your progress.
hi -like sunflower I did my test at the livertrust roadshow in january-my results came out at 7.6 which according to the consultant there was an indicator of possible fatty liver-the private one I believe are a bit more accurate but fibroscans (my GP had never heard of them) are an indicator to make lifestyle changes if you haven't done already-I think you have.
Hi. I am guessing that you mean the fibroscan Test - it is not unpleasant to have - a bit like a regular ultrasound. It can give useful information BUT all results need to be assessed together with blood results, ultrasounds, other investigations etc. and not in isolation. If it is indicated on the NHS it needs requesting by a hospital consultant . A liver biopsy has a lot of potential problems and is not indicated with normal blood results. Yes bad results on a fibroscan are acted on in my experience - I had a high result (over 27) and then had to have upper endoscopy and then banding of oesophageal varices. I have a fairly long history of initially NAFLD and more latterly NASH. However as I have said above all results need considering together and not in isolation. What symptoms do you have? What does your GP think is wrong? He/she probably cannot see any reason to refer you with so many normal results already? Good luck!
Hi guys, thanks for the further replies, just to clarify:
A FibroTest / FibroMax test is NOT I repeat NOT a Fibroscan.
The BioPredictive website link posted above shows it's a blood test, not a scan.
Apparently FibroScan is available on the NHS, so will be asking my GP about taking that one further.
However, The FibroTest / FibroMax test I'm not so sure on. I know it costs about £300 to have it done private. Plus a long drive toi Newcastle in my case
Anyway, to give further info on it, as already stated it's a blood test and not a scan which looks at the following:
Haptoglobin
Alpha 2 - Macroglobulin
GGT
Bilirubin
Apolipoprotein
ALT
AST
Blood Glucose (fasting)
Triglycerids
Total Cholesterol
I'm aware that a Complete Blood Count (CBC) also looks at some of these things, but I dont think it looks at all of them.
Maybe somebody of superior knowledge could clarify as I know a CBC looks at GGT, ALT, AST, Bilirubin, Glucose and Cholesterol. Not sure about the others.
Hi Tim, I read you're previous posts as well and you may not like my response but it us not meant badly. Your guilt and fear are much more likely to be causing you're symptoms given the tests you have had done. I understand the stews of your home situation - I am disabled as is my son - so my reply is aiming at that. I don't know whether an occupational therapist has assessed you (yes you, the carer) but if not I strongly suggest you look into this. They can provide help for you from a holiday, someone to come into your home a couple of times a week to give you time out, and, perhaps most importantly, they have to provide emergency care. For instance, were my husband to be hospitalised or incapacitated there is a plan in place to ensure within twelve hours my care needs are covered.
Take time out for you and listen to the doctors and find a way to live again. I would suggest you request monitoring perhaps yearly tests so that if things develop it will be picked up before the danger zone. I truly hope you can relinquish the fixation on your liver, I an pretty sure the symptoms will ease when you find a way to really relax.
I've only heard of one person taking the Fibrotest and that was in France! Suspect without major symptoms of liver disease (ie your bloods and scans are ok) you will have to pay privately.
Yes people do get muddled with the Fibroscan and the Fibrotest but they are different.
Mind you, all the tests you list apart from the 2 'globulins' and the 'protein' can be done at the GP for free.
In the UK the CBC (or FBC full blood count) doesn't look at GGT, ALT, AST, Bilirubin, Glucose and Cholesterol. It looks at red and white blood counts, platelets etc, ie your immune system. The Liver Function test (LFT) looks at ALT, AST (or in the UK normally ALP), Bilirubin and Albumin. You can ask for GGT as an extra its not within the LFT. Cholesterol is separate and Glucose is done as a fasting test.
Not surprising that the person you heard having had the test was in France, as that is where these tests originated & are more widely used. I actually first heard about them on an American Liver forum.
Last time I had bloods done the doc quoted the Gamma GT to me (as it had "improved" very slightly) so she must have requested that as an extra on the FBC/CBC then if what you say is correct.
I'm back at the GP on Tues to discuss my latest bloods and depending on the results (..."everything's normal again, you're a hypochondriac" etc) then that will probably dictate whether I go for the FibroMax test. At least three markers on there that haven't been looked at, and BioPredictive are confident results compare well to a Biopsy.
Will also ask about having a Fibroscan on the NHS.
I think Hanan Mardini does both these procedures up in Newcastle - so that's where I'll be going more than likely.
If I go ahead, I will of course keep the forum informed of the outcome etc
hi, I see Bolly has given you some good info-he always does! I still think that your symptoms sound like PAWS-you may not have been drinking alcohol for quite a while but in some people these kind of symptoms go on for years. In my case I was lucky and the worst of it was over in about 4-5 weeks but then I wasn't drinking all the time before anyway. It depends how much you were drinking and for how long....Good on bad news about PAWS-yes the symptoms can be unpleasant and unpredictable but the good news is-it isn't going to kill you! Try and do some searches on it...cheers
Depending on what you think has caused your liver damage (if you have any), the British Liver Trust has a list of the most useful test in each case: britishlivertrust.org.uk/li...
Most GPs will start with the liver function blood tests, which include Alanine aminotransferase (ALT), Aspartarte aminotransferase (AST), Alkaline phosphatase (ALP), Gamma glutamyl transferase (GGT or ‘Gamma GT’), Bilirubin and Albumin.
If these are repeatedly raised or you have a medical/lifestyle history that warrants it, you may be sent for an ultrasound scan at your local hospital to look for an enlarged or scarred liver and an enlarged spleen.
If all of this is normal I would think the GP would be unwilling to offer more testing to look for liver damage and may consider a different diagnosis that fits with your symptoms.
If you are happy to go private, I guess you can have and pay for whatever test you fancy. Its not common for a Fibroscan (and definitely not a Fibrotest) to be available straight away on the NHS, especially as not all hospitals have the machine.
Ok guys thanks again for the responses. Had latest bloods back, all Liver functions are in range apart from ALT which was 42, just over the upper range limit of 40. Borderline low Iron as well for what it's worth.
The ALT was up a bit from a reading of 33 taken last September 2013, in the immediate aftermath of taking a Fluconazole tablet & having pain in the Liver area.
GP not really concerned at this stage, but I did discuss Fibroscans/Fibrotests with her (she hadn't heard of either) and gave her some appropriate information on these as alternatives to Liver Biopsy.
End result is she'll be writing to Dr Hanan Mardini in Newcastle, who does both of these things at the Royal Victoria Infirmary up there, so I'm very happy with that. Even if I end up paying for one or both.
Can't put a price on obtaining piece of mind or finding out exactly what all my currently undiagnosed symptoms are, if possible.
So really just a case of wait & see now, but as previously stated, if I have the Fibrotest, I will report back with the feedback as this seems to be somewhat scarce!
My Fibroscopy here in France 2/3 months or so ago. came about after a blood disorder diagnosis 2* years ago - still undergoing continuing and frequent mri' & regular big (complicated?) blood tests. All written results come in french, I have 2 lumps and cirrhosis scarring on liver, told not cancer/alcohol related Feel fine physically - just effects on brain from aneurysm/blood haemorrhage Mar 2013 which meant brain injury i.e. memory/confusion - also complicate overall health situation. Fortunately I'm in good hands medically - don't have to pay anything for all the tests, but await a prognosis. I think for some silly reason all my stuff is just a little more complicated than they are used to here and hopefully your fibrotest will be OK>
My scan was free on NHS. I was diagnosed with liver disease 2 years ago. I thought I was okay as my bloods get better each time but my fibroscan results were 75. 75 is the highest score you can get. My doctor told me within the next few years my liver without a doubt fail. I'm at a very high risk of organ failure, cancer, bleeding varacies (which I almost died from after vomiting 4 pints of blood) and other health issues. My spleen is also enlarged. If you do have to pay for it I would get saving as you need to know what state your liver is in. For 2 years I was lead to believe mine was slightly damaged. Know I know the truth I can plan what's left of my future and it has put me off ever wanting to touch alcohol again. Keep me posted and good luck!
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