Read conclusion if no time to read al... - British Lung Foun...

British Lung Foundation
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Read conclusion if no time to read all. Give your thoughts please ?

Vonnie50
Vonnie50

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

76 Replies
oldestnewest

I read most of it and my thoughts are .. I am glad I gave up smoking and will never go back to smoking ever again.

Vonnie50
Vonnie50
in reply to Tia4209

Me too just hoping not to progress x

powderpuff
powderpuff
in reply to Vonnie50

The conclusion pretty much sums it up Vonnie! Smoking cessation halts progression which I believe to be true, personally, over the course of the last year I would say I’ve slightly improved since dx & quiting smoking.

Just do all the right things & you’ll be ok 👌

Vonnie50
Vonnie50
in reply to powderpuff

Thank you so much x appreciated XX thank you for replying

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to powderpuff

But what about emphysema how does it affect that as I get slow progression how does it halt emphysema progression

powderpuff
powderpuff
in reply to Hidden

“In mild to moderate COPD smoking cessation reduces the risk of disease progression”

That’s pretty compelling & worth grabbing with both hands without question!

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to powderpuff

Do you know what I agree will discuss with nurse, as she said I have 3 years like this will show her this...all very confusing

powderpuff
powderpuff
in reply to Hidden

What do you mean 3 years?

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to powderpuff

She said I could be like I am for next 3 years or so. Not gasping for breath not on oxygen able to walk about...I am just confused as everywhere else talks about progressive. I question this when first diagnosed and one nurse said stop smoking progress like normal people. Another said gets worse overtime.

My consultant said progressive worse overtime another consultant said now I have stopped progress like normal people.

If stopping smoking would halt progression there surely would be no need for research into how to halt progression.

This is only reason I am confused..people have never smoked and got it and people gave up smoking years ago and got it.

I would love this to be true stress worry over just live with the damage lungs I got

powderpuff
powderpuff
in reply to Hidden

You need to be logical about what you read & are told!

The medical establishment can’t have it both ways can they? On the one hand they can’t predict this or that with COPD & on the other there’s practice nurses making daft, unfounded, sledgehammer forecasts.

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to powderpuff

I agree with nurse comment but it did have an impact..she I said I no longer want to see.

It's this research finding of Vonnies I find interesting I confusing I look for hope powerpuff, but it contradicts what BLF literature says and what people on here say.

powderpuff
powderpuff
in reply to Hidden

Causation is not exclusively due to smoking though so research is even more important.

Genetics/Immunology are areas which are attracting some interesting theories & research proposals atm.

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to powderpuff

So do you believe this research finding and surprised no one else has commented. I remember a consultant saying why would you get worse you stop smoking was happy with that until I researched

powderpuff
powderpuff
in reply to Hidden

I like facts & certainty for sure & something more recent than 2011 would be good but nonetheless, it’s a positive.

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to powderpuff

We level out after 5 year not smoking I quit a year ago so not sure but yes positive I guess

Tia4209
Tia4209
in reply to Hidden

It is upsetting and confusing when professionals give different opinions on progression however it is the newer research that has discovered that smoking cessation slows progression/ decline in lung function to that of non smokers. An older consultant/ nurse may base their advice on older research I guess. Have you asked your consultant about the 3 year prediction It seems strange that a nurse would make that prediction and give a specific timescale. Emphysema can have genetic causes ( Alpha 1) research will need to be ongoing on how to prevent progress when there is a genetic cause and research is constantly ongoing into age related health problems anti aging is huge business and lungs decline with age.

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to Tia4209

Haven't got genetic alpha 1. Consultant said cant predict. I did get upset then thought no one can predict. I find it confusing as I guess dont see the fuss if all it takes is stopping smoking and the risk of progression is reduced ....honestly dont understand what that means. Does it mean now I no longer smoke my lungs will decline like normal people. Confused and looking for other research to go along side this

I am not clear what the research is actually saying

Tia4209
Tia4209
in reply to Hidden

Research is needed into the most effective way to help people quit smoking too. As you can read from this study a big percentage could not quit permanently

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to Tia4209

Yes read that. I didnt understand what conclusion was saying

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to Tia4209

We have a lung disease that is progressive how can stop smoking result in our lung function declining like normal people who haven't got alveoli distruction. Just obviously missing something here

Tia4209
Tia4209
in reply to Hidden

it stops because you are removing the major cause of the progression

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to Tia4209

Have you read all of this....a consultant said same thing I will read it all again

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to Tia4209

Read 3rd paragraph please

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to powderpuff

Read 3rd paragraph

Hidden
Hidden

Is it saying mild can be stopped if you quit smoking?

2greys
2greys
in reply to Hidden

Even healthy lungs will degrade as you age. But smoking massively accelerates the progression of that degradation. The lungs cannot repair themselves so any damage done to them is permanent, that damage of the "normal" aging process can arise from contact with air pollution, such as traffic fumes and bonfires. But smoking tobacco is a constant and concentrated form of pollution which also contains a lot of different carcinogens.

So quitting smoking will have the biggest affect of slowing down that progression. If you also try to avoid the other, everyday, air pollutants, you can slow that progression a little more too. But it can be very hard to avoid that, everyday, pollution, you have to go out sometimes. It can help to have an air quality app, on your phone, that can show/forecast pollution levels and help you to decide say, to go out to the shops on the lower polluted days instead. That can be very hard to do as sometimes we just have to go out.

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to 2greys

I am confused how does it affect emphysema, I being mild/moderate emphysema I have stopped smoking a year now but that damage will continue so confused. I understand to a degree

2greys
2greys
in reply to Hidden

The damage already caused is permanent, it will never repair itself. By stopping to smoke, then any progression will continue at the same rate as a non smoker would but you will always have the lung impairment that you have already suffered. The trick is not to restart smoking and try to avoid any infections and polluted air, you will probably remain at the mild stage. With something else causing your passing in the distant future.

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to 2greys

Would wearing a scarf help

2greys
2greys
in reply to Hidden

Not against pollution I'm afraid, the most damaging particulate matter and the gases would pass through. But wearing a scarf over your mouth/nose will prevent cold air entering your lungs, which will help to keep your airways open and help to prevent a chill.

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to 2greys

So progression will continue then as we all have to go out will see my progression or not when I go for second test..find all of this confusing as surely "normal lungs" dont have distruction of the alveoli

That's what surely causes the problem in emphysema

If research says its progressive dont understand the findings vonnie has presented sorry 2greys. Why are we looking for something that will halt progression.

2greys
2greys
in reply to Hidden

That is the point, normal lungs do have a very slow destruction of the aveoli and elasticity. Even in a pollution free environment, any lung infection will have a small destructive affect. But smoking tobacco is hundreds of times worse. The lungs have a huge redundancy normally, and would normally out last any of your other organs.

You have nothing to worry about with mild emphysema, if you look after your lungs from now on. You were very lucky to have been diagnosed at an early stage you have time still on your side to have changed your lifestyle.

Those that are diagnosed at the later stages are not so lucky, as they are prone to getting a lot more infections and more serious ones, that will cause the most damage, like Pneumonia. They also have more stress imposed on their heart with a higher pulse rate from the effort of breathing. My pulse rate is 110/120 bpm at rest, go for a walk or even just a bath and it shoots up to 140/150 bpm.

For a healthy person the maximum safe pulse rate is 220 minus your age. For those with severe/very severe COPD it would be 200 minus your age. So for me my max safe pulse rate would be 200 minus 69 which equals 131 bpm ,so as you can see my heart is under a lot of stress and that is not taking into consideration that I also have CAD (Cardio Arterial Disease) as well as hypertension. But I have to exercise to help with my breathing, rather a vicious circle, be damned if I do and damned if I don't. Personally I would rather go quickly, with a heart attack, than suffocate slowly to death with respiratory failure. So I keep exercising and keep working to keep breathing better, (which brings less stress to the heart) and to keep my mind occupied and healthy. A dilemma that hopefully you will not have to encounter.

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to 2greys

My pulse rate can go to 134 to 151 on walking so up and down and I am mild/moderate but 2greys all very confusing. Nurse said I am tachycardia but had 72hr heart tracer wasnt concerned all confusing my resting can be 90 71 and I did not know alveoli had distruction in normal lungs...all I know is what I read on here and the conflicting views I received from nurses and drs. Resting sat can be 100 moving 90 91 89 which again nurse isnt bothered about so confused.

2greys
2greys
in reply to Hidden

I am not a doctor, I can only go on assumptions. Assuming from your screen name (Emily61) you are either 59 (dob 1961) or 61 years, so let's assume 60 years old as a mean. Only mild COPD so again a mean between 220 (healthy)and 200 (with COPD) is 210.

210 minus 60 equals a safe 150 bpm so you are within the safe levels. Nothing to be concerned about. Lucky girl! :)

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to 2greys

58 tomorrow

2greys
2greys
in reply to Hidden

Even better then, many happy returns for tomorrow and you will have many more of them :)

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to 2greys

Thank you ..just very confused with the recent findings ....I always say it's not death, its quality of life and that's why I hope researchers come up with something tangible soon so we can all breath better

powderpuff
powderpuff
in reply to 2greys

Interesting! Have I read you use an exercise bike & treadmill daily?

If so, how does this affect your heart rate?

2greys
2greys
in reply to powderpuff

I use an exercise bike and a rowing machine. They will both increase my heart rate, if I set the resistance on the rowing machine on its highest setting my bpm can go up to 165 which is well over the top and even dangerous, so try to keep it at 150 bpm, not hard to do as the handles on both machines have pulse detectors that show on the displays.

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to 2greys

Does it improve your breathing

2greys
2greys
in reply to Hidden

With a lung function of 28% and still working full time, on my feet all day, I think that the answer has to be a resounding yes it does.

Vonnie50
Vonnie50
in reply to 2greys

So proud of you

Tia4209
Tia4209
in reply to 2greys

Amazing! So inspirational.

Mandy6513
Mandy6513
in reply to Hidden

I can also agree the exercise bike helps . If you have room for one I recommend using it every day if you can

Mandy6513
Mandy6513
in reply to 2greys

My fev1 is 17 so my heart rate can go a bit high when I'm on my exercise bike but using it is fantastic it really helps . I would recommend it to anyone

powderpuff
powderpuff
in reply to 2greys

So you’re higher heart rate upon exertion is not due to AFib?

I’m currently on an enforced sabbatical from the PR maintenance course because it’s thought the cardio & some aerobic exercise is causing me AFib. Everything has normalised again so it looks like my GP is right.

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to powderpuff

So what do you do regard exercise

powderpuff
powderpuff
in reply to Hidden

It’s not all exercise that effects me I can still walk for 2 miles each day & for upper body strength I have some lovely pink dumbbells which I also use daily. The weights really feel like they’re opening out the chest.

2greys
2greys
in reply to powderpuff

No, I do not have AFib, just Arrhythmia which the consultant is not concerned too much about. On my last consultation he stated that I am doing everything right before being discharged into the care of the Oncology Clinic. Even my Oncologist agrees with what I am doing whilst in remission.

powderpuff
powderpuff
in reply to 2greys

Not suggesting you do have AFib 2greys, I was merely wondering if it might be a typical manifestation. From what I’ve read together with what my GP thinks it can be & in my instance was.

I was lucky in that I was able to quit cold turkey almost four years ago and not touched one since, neither will I ever go back to it. It still did not stop me from developing NSCLC two years later after quitting, but to be honest, no surprise after being a really heavy smoker for over 50 years. Nice to know that there is now a smaller chance of it reoccurring again, fingers crossed.

It would also be nice to get smokers to read and understand it, but even if it was a documentary on TV they would turn it off, with the nicotine addiction influencing them, to bury their heads in the sand. So sad that it is not recognised by the authorities as a class A drug, because it causes so much suffering and kills people. At one time Opium was legal, but then recognised for the damage it caused and consequently banned. Unfortunately the effects of smoking tobacco take many years to manifest and as such it's consumption has been normalised too easily.

Smokers’ Brains Change in Response to High Levels of Nicotine:

newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/...

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to 2greys

What is NSCLC

2greys
2greys
in reply to Hidden

Non Small Cell Lung Cancer, the most common of lung cancers.

That information was from 2011 . Don't know about China but the e cig is very popular now and it's how I stopped smoking

2greys
2greys
in reply to Mandy6513

I do hope that now the e-cig has done it's job, that you have quit that as well.

Vonnie50
Vonnie50
in reply to 2greys

I found e-cigarette harder to quit than smoking . Stopped 5 years ago but can’t quit the gum

2greys
2greys
in reply to Vonnie50

Nicotine is still bad for your heart, it also hinders any healing processes even with radiotherapy they insist you quit nicotine, but it has to be better than smoking any day.

Vonnie50
Vonnie50
in reply to 2greys

Omg you shocked me bad for heart !

2greys
2greys
in reply to Vonnie50

Yes, bad for your heart.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/911...

Vonnie50
Vonnie50
in reply to 2greys

Off to read x

Mandy6513
Mandy6513
in reply to 2greys

Omg yeah years ago but I did find them fantastic to stop me smoking completely 😀

2greys
2greys
in reply to Mandy6513

Well done on both counts.

Mandy6513
Mandy6513
in reply to 2greys

Thank you. Nice to see you still posting and active. Hope you and yours have had a lovely Christmas x

2greys
2greys
in reply to Mandy6513

A very quiet and sedate one this year, with 2 X 2 1/2 mile walk to the pub Xmas day.

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to Mandy6513

Does it matter when it was then

Mandy6513
Mandy6513
in reply to Hidden

I would imagine there have been some changes in almost 10 years but probably not

If you now have a gum chewing habit as well as a nicotine addiction, perhaps slowly replace the nicotine gum with ordinary gum, slowly, until you have quit the nicotine gum.

Vonnie50
Vonnie50
in reply to 2greys

I only chew nicotine gum but around 20 per day for 2 years. I do try that but doesn’t work x need to try harder

Hidden
Hidden

Can anyone tell me if this is saying smoking halts emphysema. If so has anyone got personal experience of this being true

2greys
2greys
in reply to Hidden

It halts the accellerated progression that smoking gives, and after 5 years you return to "normal" rates of progression, ten years to a more normal risk towards cancer.

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to 2greys

Slows down progression got it so nothing new than before stop smoking slows progression but we are still progressing just hopefully slower than smokers

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to 2greys

So guess that's why some mild and moderate remain that way for years well like I said finding the treatment to halt progression in order

2greys
2greys
in reply to Hidden

Yes, that is all we have at the present time.

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to 2greys

How are some claiming to be mild moderate for 27 years?

Easy answer to that, they have quit smoking, or have a higher tolerance to the smoke, whether tobacco or indoor fuel burning. In my opinion it can be all to do with genetic make up how fast progression takes.