Sick of people useing pip for there o... - British Lung Foun...

British Lung Foundation

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Sick of people useing pip for there own benefit

Purton
Purton

Hi morning hope everyone is ok first of I would like to say sorry to the person who got refused pip can I ask why and what is wrong all so it winds me up when people fake disability people we might look normal but some of us like me are suffering in total pain because of my disability I have only been out once in over a few weeks it ant fare that other get pip and don’t need it

edited by Admin

56 Replies

In some ways I agree with parts of your statement. However many disabilities are invisible. In my wife's case people only see her when she is well. Unfortunately people judge her on that. At her worse she can hardly walk and needs help to maintain some basic activities of life. Like you she can spend weeks in pain but then she does not go out. Basically there are many flaws with the PIP system and at times it is the person's ability to fill out forms which gets them PIP. Matching descriptors to gain points etc. Also evidence in the form of health professional letters reports etc. I have helped a number of people fill out forms and the biggest mistake is thinking that any chronic condition speaks for itself. In reality you need to report how that condition affects you from the moment you get up to when you go to bed and even then you will yourself repeating yourself in each question. I always tell people never give up, appeal etc. The odds are in your favour.

TomTitTot
TomTitTot in reply to Badbessie

Could I ask for a clarification? I don't speak acronym, and we don't have PIP in the states.

Many thanks,

TomTitTot

TomTitTot
TomTitTot in reply to TomTitTot

Got it, read more exchanges!😏

Badbessie
Badbessie in reply to TomTitTot

Basically it's what you may call welfare. From going on various sites in the States I am undecided who as the cruelest system.

Purton
Purton in reply to Badbessie

I know and thankyou for you reply I do get disability but I was trying to tell people how I felt about others getting it and there’s Notting wrong with them there are days and can be weeks that I don’t go out because of the pain but I am putting up with it there are nights and days that I need help but to scared to ask

Badbessie
Badbessie in reply to Purton

Then you should ask but before doing so gather evidence from your GP and specialist. What do find useful is a home assessment report by the community occupational therapist. Your Doctor can refer you.

Purton
Purton in reply to Badbessie

I been assassment and they refused me apart from putting rails up and a seat

Hidden
Hidden

Fair enough but did you have to use that language

Purton
Purton in reply to Hidden

I am sorry but it winds me up

Er..excuse me it is virtually impossible to scam your way into PIP these days so I doubt whether many are getting it when they aren't entitled. If they do they must be Oscar winning actors!

It is much more likely to be the other way round - those who need it are being denied because of the harsh conditions of claiming.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to hypercat54

Brilliant

stone-UK
stone-UK in reply to hypercat54

Hi

It’s vary hard to disprove a invisible disability, but very easy to buy crutches or wheel chairs. Been done although caught eventually usually by being reported rather than the diligence of DWP staff or their agencies.

hypercat54
hypercat54 in reply to stone-UK

Ok but how do you fake letters from your doctor and consultants?

stone-UK
stone-UK in reply to hypercat54

Hi

Not all claims require letters, mine didn’t just my word but they did contact my GP. Remember PIP is not just for lung conditions.

People with back or leg injuries can have less of a Disability then there are actually stating. Very hard to prove otherwise.

hypercat54
hypercat54 in reply to stone-UK

Well I think there are a lot more people out there who need and deserve PIP and who are turned down then there are scammers. You might disagree with me of course which is your perogative.

Purton
Purton in reply to hypercat54

There are tons of people who need it and yes I know some one who fakes there disability and it makes me sick I can not stand that

stone-UK
stone-UK in reply to hypercat54

Hi

No I agree with you, but it’s because of the scammers which the Government deny is a major problem that genuine claims are treated with suspicion. The vast majority of scammers are only caught because they are reported.

It’s to costly and time consuming for the DWP to carry out any investigation without a reliable tip of. Hence the change to PIP gives the Government opportunity to change the criteria fetch in new measures such as face to face assessment, plus removes all the old DLA “ case law” from which claimants could refer to.

Purton
Purton in reply to hypercat54

This person is

hypercat54
hypercat54 in reply to Purton

Well you know 1 which doesn't mean there are loads. Do you know this persons circumstances intimately? Do you know all their medical history so you are sure it's not an 'invisible' disability eg mental health? x

Purton
Purton in reply to hypercat54

Yes in fact I do thanks

Hi

There as and always will be people who will abuse the benefits system, if you meet the criteria then your are entitled to that benefit.

I agree with you in respect of to many people see the benefits system as a means of extra income rather than a assistance because of a persons inabilities. Whether that be mobility, care or financially.

When I claimed DLA I only used my Spirometer results, no letters from GP or consultants, I did have to ask for reconsideration which only took ten days (error on part of DWP)

What is pip...

stone-UK
stone-UK in reply to Clamdigger

Hi

Personal Independence Payment (PIP) a non means tested benefit to help with your mobility and care needs.

Clamdigger
Clamdigger in reply to stone-UK

I'm from Canada never heard that term... I went for DTC and couldn't get it I have scoliosis .. FM .. Full of OA .. And COPD..Heart problems . Can't work .... It makes me laugh how they offer but few get it ....

stone-UK
stone-UK in reply to Clamdigger

Hi

canada.ca/en/revenue-agency...

Same issue as many U.K. claimants have in being successful.

My late husband job was special investigator for DWP and I could tell you some stories about fiddling. But one that sticks in my mind is a friend of friend who put peas in her shoes so she wouldn’t be able to walk properly

That says it all

skischool
skischool in reply to newlands

Interesting.I wonder how many 'points' you acquire in the assessment for'peeing' yourself,i imagine that comes under the continence section. :) sorry i couldn't resist and likewise many years ago i had a friend in a similar occupation and some of the stories he told where equally fascinating,

Ski's and Scruffs' x

Chriskho
Chriskho in reply to skischool

😭

yes I’ve heard there are cctv outside Pip assessment centres now to see how mobility effect the claimant accessing the assessment centre.

🤦‍♀️

cornflake57
cornflake57 in reply to Chriskho

Heard a report that DWP are now accessing cameras in supermarkets to monitor claiments as they go about their shopping.

Asken
Asken in reply to cornflake57

Nothing to hide it's worse than Russia for spying !!!!

hypercat54
hypercat54 in reply to newlands

I presume that was before PIP? It is much harder to scam PIP than it was DLA I think. x

newlands
newlands in reply to hypercat54

It was last year but she didn’t get the full amount for mobility but how stupid can you get to then sit in a pub telling everyone what you have done

Take care Bev

Dorothy

Who ARE YOU TO JUDGE !!

Are you a doctor do you feel you are better qualified than the medical profession,

some have conditions that severely effect their lives but are not readily visible.

Society would do better chasing the businesses doing tax dodges rather than vilifying the sick and disabled you should be ashamed for your comments !

I was not judgeing others I would not do that I can’t explain sometimes but I can promise that is not what I was doing

y_not
y_not in reply to Purton

Sorry, I agree with gaffers ... seems a little knowledge and a rejection have perhaps blinded you! People judge based on a moment's observations, without any technical or medical background and a heart full of bitterness and resentfulness and, as usual add two & two to make five. Your view is reminiscent of an ASOS employee.

Oh, and following my rant, no, I won't be responding to any further comments on the post!

Excuse me i am not taking the mickey out of anybody,read my reply in the context it was written and to whom i replied please before you go casting comments.i am the recipient of a PIP award and i do know how the system works.

There are so many problems and issues around this topic, I have an invisible illness which does affect some of the things I can do, which combined with a mental health issue, makes me borderline for some financial help. I have not bothered to apply, as only borderline, will keep this for when I know I am over the line. The job I did for many years had me involved with people who applied/appealed for various state benefts. Although I know there are people who milk the system, the way others are treated by the system can be horrid. I had a gentleman who had both legs amputated above knee, because of this and other medical problems he applied for Mobility Allowance, he was turned down as "they" said he could walk the distance required for normal life. On questioning, he had got to the Assessment Panel room up 2 flights of stairs, he did this by sitting, on the stairs and going up backwards, took him ages, he was late for the appointment!!! For 3 days after this he could not even get his prosthestics on as his stumps were swollen and damaged from just getting to the Panel, it was another week before he could get to his car. I did a letter to go with his appeal, from what I could make out, this panel automatically turned down anyone who made it to their room. I also have a friend with both a Physical and a Psychiatric diagnosis, her benefit has to be re-applied for on a regular basis, each time she is turned down, has to use Citizen's Advice to assist with the appeal, also go with her to the Tribunal (always miles away) very costly, it is always then given, so she is put through anxiety and anguish for no good reason, if "they" checked back and read previous judgements, might handle this better. She is always less able for at least 3 weeks after this event. One time, someone decided to do a phone assessment prior to the Tribunal, my friend found the questioning bullying, and ended up crying, the questioner ignored her distress and carried on as if nothing was happening for another 30mins.

There must be a better way to manage the assessments for all state benefits, which reduces the people getting benefits, when they are not entitled, without causing so much distress to those who are entitled.

Caspiana
Caspiana in reply to SORRELHIPPO

Oh my SORRELHIPPO . I have just managed to pick my jaw off my chest. This is absolutely appalling. 😱

barbs47
barbs47 in reply to SORRELHIPPO

I used to be an advisor for Citizens Advice specialising in Disability ie filling out DLA forms going to tribunal appeals etc. Things were not so bad then as they are now. I cannot believe the way some people are treated and made to feel like scammers and liers. There are far, far fewer actual scammers than genuine disable people who are turned down. Let’s face it on this site alone we are hearing daily of people with lung disease who are turned down for PIP. Most of the assessors have no idea what it feels like to be unable to breath, they should try putting a nose clip on and breathing through a straw whilst exercising then they would know exactly what it was like. My GP went on a course to better understand COPD and this is what they had to do. I never had a problem talking to her about my breathing problems. If we in this country had a little more empathy with our fellow human beings it would be a much better place.

Sorry about the rant but I get disgusted at the way people judge others.

Barbs

SORRELHIPPO
SORRELHIPPO in reply to barbs47

I loved this reply, when I trained we had to go out and about for 3 days in a wheelchair so we could understand how it felt to be condescended to and blocked from most entertainments etc ( back in the 70's) We also spent time with special glasses on, that gave you tunnel vision and things like that, when you were out, you certainly felt how scary it can be when a stranger grabs you by the arm (you have not seen them, they have not spoken) they then "help" you somewhere. We were taught that pity and sympathy was a waste of energy, what people needed was "empathy" put yourself in their shoes, imagine walking in them for a week, and then ask them what help they need. I feel that the problem in a lot of assessment offices is the individual culture of the office. The staff are from "us" with the same beliefs and prejudices that society as whole has. If your newspapers, friends and other sources of info. are telling you that there are a lot of benefit scammers, you will believe it. We need govt. to publish yearly statistics, about how many people get the benefits, and how many were actually removed as scammers, newspapers and other news sites should be made to publish these, (regardless of their political persuasion) so there was some actual facts available in this debate. I imagine that as a percentage of the whole, only a small number of scammers exist. The other thing that is needed is strong managers in the teams that deal with these benefits, who are able to enable staff to work on just the facts of applications, and keep their own feelings about claiments and benefits, out of the work arena. My view is that it could be a thankless job, with so much criticism heading their way, it would be interesting to know what rate of staff leaving there is, because the stress is so high. What proportion of people do they employ who actually have illnesses and ddisabilities?

My rant in reply, I am having an "if I ruled the world it would be a better place" day, thank goodness that will never happen!!!!

I am sorry to hear this I am not a medical person all I know is I get disability for several things and for people who really needs it don’t get it but I

Know people who get it for nothing all because they are very good actors and they seem to get everything they want look at a lot of people who do need it but the government thinks they are not worth it every one is worth it when people star at me I think ok they have never seen burnt person before I was all so abused mentally and pysycly and a 102 ops and a lot more but people can’t see any of that. I wish I could work but because of my arthritis and skin tightening and my leaning disability I can not work

skischool
skischool in reply to Purton

Purton,i think you should try and avail yourself of help from agencies that can represent you,they are sometimes called advocats and if you contact your local social services they can put you in touch with them and they will probably make an appt to come and discuss your issues and try to find a way forward for you,it will do no harm to use their services and hopefully they will help you get the assistance that you need,

Good luck with that,

Ski's and Scruffy x

p.s i forgot to add that the advocacy service is free of charge,

SORRELHIPPO
SORRELHIPPO in reply to Purton

Citizen's Advice Bureau are an excellent organisation, in many areas they have lawyers who work specific times/days offering advice and help, the CAB staff themselves have great experience and knowledge, if anyone can give useful help it is them. I wish you luck

Caspiana
Caspiana in reply to Purton

I know there are people who do cheat the system. It happens here in Japan too. So, I do understand your feelings Purton . The thing is, sooner or later they are always outed because a charade can only go on for so long.

And on the other hand there are deserving very needy people who are overlooked. I think this happens everywhere. It is extremely frustrating. Here in Japan, people on disability really get a pittance I think compared to the U.K. Many who are barely able try to work a little to make ends meet. I think it has a lot to do with trying to discourage people from taking advantage of the system, yet in the mean time it really hurts those who need it most.

Take care. xx 🌿🍃

Hi Purton, if you are sick I belive it would not be just your word or a GP letter. I belive we are all fighting for survival and better quality of life. How can you fake a hospital report or even waiting on nice to give you funding for a life changing drug. I agree with you a lot of fake pip claims. If you are being looked after by your GP and hospital how can you fake that. So someone claiming they are depressed, back pain, how can they prove they are not in pain. We need to stand together and fight for those who are ill. We have enough to struggle without throwing stones at others.

You are so right and you can not fake letters or reports I am hoping every one that’s deserves to be on pip will get it as the do deserve it I am 44 years old I have lots of disability but I still have my brain it might be messed up but that’s who I am

As already stated I have helped a number of people claim ESA and PIP. All genuine claims. Sadly the best advice I have been given is not by Citizens Advice, disabilities groups etc but by a man who in my opinion had played the system for years. He had copies of DWP guidelines for decision makers etc etc etc. The system is open to abuse basically because the person who makes the decision is not medically trained but bases a judgement on guidelines in a book. Think about it? The amount of people who win on appeal is enormous because there is a Doctor on the panel.

I understand what you are saying but many disabilities are not obvious physical impairment. I.e you can't see if a person is blind unless they carry a white stick, but anyone can purchase a white stick and many other aids. Mental health issues like lung conditions are not visible. Why would some one want to fake I would say but also realise people do.You cannot see my broken shoulder with damage to the rotor cuff and pain but it is very disabling as I cannot lift, as I am sure many others with joint issues can't. But we can still go out even if impaired which is what PIP is for to help you get out and about and maintain your independence.

I understand I am going to stop this now because I can’t explain myself to to people or what I was trying to get across in my way I have cased upset I ant on here to upset others and I don’t know how to say things so I am going to not respond anymore I hope everyone in the world are safe and I hope you

Get what you should love Fiona

Caspiana
Caspiana in reply to Purton

It's okay Purton . I think I understand what you are trying to get across. We all have our own way of forming opinions based on what we read whether that was the intended message or not. Take care of yourself. xx 🌿

Purton
Purton in reply to Caspiana

Thank you you seem to be a nice person

BSA-3
BSA-3 in reply to Caspiana

Well said, Cas, well said. Take care 🐁👣

Purton please don't feel you have done anything wrong. You woke a lot of us up and made us think about what isreally going on. Please your opinion counts and don't feel what you have to say is not valid. Purton you made a lot of people reply and start a debate. Maybe we should start letting others know we are still trying to breathe each day.

Take care of yourself.

Purton
Purton in reply to monju

Hi morning thank you I had no idea I was doing that you just made my day because of the kind words that I never had in my life thankyou

Any time.. ☺️

Hi Purton, this is one of those issues with you agree or disagree. I am in agreement with how do you fake consultants and GP letters. None of us are medical qualified to give a diagnosis. We know for a fact that they get it wrong and people have to appeal. I agree some, do get pass, however they are found out. I belive we are struggling to survive and should focus on living and being comfortable. Life is hard living with an illness that may take over your quality of life. Let's hope justice is done. ♥ 🤔 X

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