Pain still there so time for a sleeping pill?

6 Days ago I wrote a post on my knees causing me all sorts of gip! Well they are not improving. We do a small shop on a Tuesday and the wife offered to drive, so off we went. Parked up and issued a Failure to display on the 4x4 next door.

Got the trolley/zimmer with my fake coin. 2 Aisles and we are done! Paid and back to the car. 4x4 and ticket still there. Calves and quads tender and breath back to speed we go home.

Once I got into the house my legs felt like they have been on a marathon? With the back neck and shoulders coming out in sympathy.

Desperate action needed so I decided to take a sleeping pill when we go to bed. Well took the pill and had a little more sleep than normal but was so stiff I could not get out of bed until I had bent all my moveables. Another Plan failed :(

63 Replies

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  • Ouch Offcut! sounds really painful. That is the problem with being in bed, having a reasonable sleep but then waking up feeling so stiff you cannot move. Hope things improve soon and well done on the notice on the 4x4. The cheek of these people.

    You take care. xxxx

  • Will always have the breath for DPAGMAN! ;)

  • Oh Offcut that is so not fair - is it time for a visit to GP?

  • They have a what do you expect attitude with me at the moment.

  • Have you discussed Diazepam with your GP as a muscle relaxant for occasional use at times like that? Rib

  • I had to go on Hands and knees and beg for the Tramadol! Could not do it Literally Never get up ;)

  • I am not surprised that he made a fuss. Tramadol are contra - indicated for breathing issues and sedatives. So not much chance with him agreeing with Diaz then.

  • I will see if they will listen?

  • If you want to give a muscle relaxant a try. I find it help me and I mix mine with morphine and DF118. Mind you I do sleep on oxygen and I am not you. So we can only guess effects. Personally I think it is worth talking with your doctor and asking if it is suitable and if not then can he put an alternative mix together to help. Also you could join Pain Concern community which may be of help.

  • Hi Offcut,

    That's a shame, its no fun being in pain all the time, or being so locked in the morning you can barely move. You don't mention if you have had blood tests, or any tests for this, because it may be that tramadol is not the most suitable painkiller for these particular pains. Does heat or ice help? Sounds like it needs more investigation, or if you already know the cause maybe a referral to a specialist.

    Hope things improve soon.

    I know you like your hugs, so extra ones for you today, ((((Offcut)))))),

    sending you extra snuggly bear hugs,

    Huggs xxx :)

  • Heat does not help me I am afraid if I had a hot bath. Once I struggled to get out of it, I would be so stiff I would be heard coming down stairs because the joints would be cracking so load. Acupuncture was OK some times but costly? I am banned from anti inflammatory drugs and Ibuprofen!

    Thank you for the hugs feel warm all over now ;)

  • HI Offcut,

    I knew they would help. :) I didn't mention anti-inflammatories to you because I realise they are mostly out of the question. Sometimes, and it very much depends on each individuals circumstances a short course will be prescribed, but it is not usual, and depends on various issues. However, if acupuncture has helped you in the past, it should be available free of charge, possibly through your physio department, so it might be worth referring yourself there. Another thing worth considering is a TENS machine, which are digital and now inexpensive to buy. It never did me any good, but I know they help some people. I hadn't been thinking of a bath when I mentioned heat, but heating pads and such like, but if heat doesn't help then they wouldn't be much use either.

    If there is inflammation present sometimes ice does help, and I know it sounds uncomfortable and unpleasant, but I have found it helps certain things with me for a while. I have several ice packs, some of which can double as heat packs, which I place on the painful area, but always have a thin covering between the ice pack and the skin as you could get an ice burn.

    Sounds to me like acupuncture is your best bet at the moment, so maybe try the physio department and see what they say, or if you can get referred to a pain clinic they usually offer acupuncture free as well. Go for it Offcut!! ;)

    hugs from Huggs xxx :)

  • Just to make life easier for me I cannot use a tens machine due to my heart conditions. I asked my cardiologist if It would be OK and he said big no no !

    It took me 2 years to see a breathing specialist! So if my GP's can remove their blinkers.

    Onwards and upwards!

  • Hi Offcut,

    I cannot now use a tens machine either, but didn't find it helped much when I could anyway. Keep plugging away until you find something to help, and fully understand how difficult it can be to get some GP's to get their blinkers off, particularly when you have multiple health issues. Where I live in Scotland you can self refer to a physio, just phone them up, or visit them to fill in a form and they will see you. Not sure if it is the same all over the country.

    hugs from Huggs xxx :)

  • You need a doctor to refer you before you can receive NHS physio in my part of England. I believe all England and Wales area health authorities are the same Huggs. It is just part of your devolved powers :-D

  • Hi Rib,

    Wasn't sure about that situation elsewhere, but he can still go to his GP for a physio referral with acupuncture in mind or the pain clinic will do this also. I only mention this as Offcut mentioned that acupuncture helped him, but a review of meds would be beneficial too.

    Somethings are okay with devolution then. lol :p

    hugs from Huggs xxx :)

  • Not at mine Rib. You self refer here. x

  • Thanks for sharing that. Governments have messed about so much over the last 15 yrs with the NHS it is difficult to know what is down to Post Code and what can be expected as a National standard any more.

  • That sounds pretty rough Offcut. Surely there is nothing worse than nagging pain you can't get rid off. The pain clinic strangely enough recommended Tramadol for me but the GP said no so I'm on co-codamol and codeine which sort of takes the edge off. That's okay as I haven't a bad attack for a while but if I do I'll have a sit-in at the GP's! Seriously I thought the pain clinic over-rode the GP but then again why would they recommend something that would compromise your health if they read the file properly??? Do hope they come up with a solution for you Offcut

    Sara x

    .

  • Hi Sarah, just wondering why Tramadol are a no no but co-codamol and codeine is ok ? I thought the reason Tramadol was bad was because of the codeine in it. I have a little stash of Solpadol and take them very occasionally for pain at night. But my doctor ( whose favourite hobby is putting the fear of God into me) makes me feel like a criminal/drug addict if I ask for some. As for Tramadol, I wouldn't dare ask for them. Both of these painkillers have a serious feel-good quotient so I suppose that's why they're such a no no. God forbid we should take anything that makes us feel good :)

    Offcut, sorry for hijacking your post and I hope you find a solution soon.

  • Hi Argana,

    Tramadol doesn't contain any codeine at all as it is a manufactured drug, and not a natural one like codeine. On saying that it was specifically manufactured to be like codeine and is similar in structure and is generally used in the way that codeine would be used. So although, strictly speaking tramadol contains no codeine they are very similar, but should not be used together as that may cause some respiratory depression or seizures in vulnerable people. This is what a GP told me some time ago, because I cannot take anything with codeine in it, and had much the same reaction with tramadol, and the above is the explanation I was given. Tramadol is meant to be stronger than codeine I think, but not 100% sure on that.

    I know doctors have to be careful with prescribing pain medication but pain needs relief, so hope you get something suitable if needed Argana.

    hugs from Huggs xx :)

  • Thanks for that explanation Huggs. When I was in hospital the nurses seemed to be giving Tramadol to everyone. Except me of course :) I've had Tramadol once or twice and felt quite euphoric after it. But more then one dose in 24 hours made me vomit. I'm sure I'm not the only one who felt 'good' after taking Tramadol and I suspect this why they are so popular with those lucky enough to be allowed take them :)

  • Hi Argana,

    You are welcome. Tramadol seems to get dished out easily by some GP's but when I got prescribed it, I didn't feel anything, and it didn't do much for the pain either, and then like you after two doses within 24 hours I started to vomit, and the explanation above was given to me then. They knew I couldn't take codeine yet gave me a drug which seems to mimic it. You just want to scream sometimes.

    hugs from Huggs xx :)

  • I am taken one every 4 hours at the moment. But I have been given morphine with little or no effect?

  • Sorry Offcut,

    I am not sure if you are responding to me or not, as sometimes the posts get a bit out of order.

    Did you mean you are taking tramadol every four hours? You have been given morphine? Which type, and did you see the doc?

    Sorry for the questions, and especially if your reply was not meant for me. lol

    hugs from Huggs xx :)

  • Yes I am taking Tramadol every four hours.

    I have not been given morphine for this but when I have had it it has not made a great deal of difference to me in any way. I do not do very well with anaesthetics either. I have woke up in surgery twice when under a general! Every procedure I have had since has been a local :(

  • Oh, that's not great is it. You must have a high tolerance to meds in general which I do too, even as a kid I was like that. As I said earlier it might be a good idea to get your pain meds reviewed and maybe even ask for patches, but they take a few days to get into your system. The thing is with the pain clinic, they are specialists in pain, and all the meds. They have a whole team of people including doctors, nurses, physio's, pharmacists to name but a few, and the consultant spends a lot of time talking to you, and explaining the various options available. acupuncture being one of them, which I was offered, but it had already been done locally and didn't help me at all. As far as the morphine goes you maybe didn't have a high enough dose, but the problem is that morphine depresses the breathing so the dose has to be balanced. The patches are timed released every hour, although they take a few days to get into your system, but may take the edge of at least.

    I think you are going to have to go and see your GP and ask for a referral somewhere, and for more useful painkillers until you get there along with some acupuncture.

    Hope you get something sorted out soon.

    hugs from Huggs xx :)

  • When in hospital I was given so much morphine with little affect they bought students in to talk to me and then asked them how much morphine do they think I had? Not one got even near the dose I had been given!

  • My sister has osteoarthritis and had a very bad attack with severe spasms in her back leaving her unable to move for hours. She is on tramodol and gabepentin and the doctor told her that tramodol wouldn't touch that type of pain and to keep on with the gabepentin only. He also gave her diazapam for back spasms and eventually oramorph because it was that or her having to go into hospital. x

  • I do not get a feel good from Tramadol just an easing!

  • Hi Argana, I see Huggs has explained the difference between Tramadol and Co-Codamol, which I didn't know! I didn't know that Co-Codamol had a feel good factor either. I'm on the 500/30 strength three times a day for severe spinal stenosis when the pain is active. The doc said he would not advise me to go on the Tramadol as the side effects were not good for my condition. Will ask again when I see him for more info. He gives me co-codamol like smarties but I'm very careful how I use them. Never heard of solpadol. What is it?

    Sara

  • Hi Sara, Solpadol is like Solpadeine, mostly paracetamol but with a smaller percentage of codeine in them as well. I only use them for severe chest pain and find them quite good. But my doctor doesn't approve and I get the 'they're opiates and they're addictive' lecture every time. The few times I've had Tramadol - always at night- they made me feel very relaxed and mildly euphoric but perhaps this was a result of interaction with some of my other meds. I would think it was just me but for an article I read in the Sunday Times a while back about people who are addicted to painkillers like Solpadeine and Tramadol and take them 'just to take the edge off'. I'm sure I could very easily become one of those people if I only had a prescription :)

  • Hi Argana, Think codeine IS addictive. I've often read that too. Daz said that people on co-codamol are 'spaced out' or something to that effect! He's probably right. Pity they don't have that effect on me. I could do with being spaced out now and then! Lol They do however take 'the edge off' when my discs give me pain which is relentless as anyone with sciatica will tell you. Didn't know Tramadol was in the opiates category! I'm quite ignorant about pain killers as I only really used ibuprofen (for arthritis) prior to co-codamol. So sorry you have such bad chest pain Argana. Thats rough on you. Sara xx

  • I could do with being spaced out as well ! We can dream :)

  • I was maxing out on co-codamol 500/30 the only thing I had was a rush at 30 mins of taking then nothing.

  • I think 500/30 is the same as Solpadol. 500 paracetamol and 30 codeine. They definitely take the edge off for a little while :)

  • You need something seriously strong Offcut but you know that already.

  • I was on co codamol 500/30 but they stopped helping some time back

  • Hi Sara,

    The pain clinic should over-ride what your GP says, after all you were referred to them as specialists in that field! If you are having problems with what your GP is prescribing then you could always get back in touch with the pain clinic and see what they advise. There are lots of people with respiratory disorders on tramadol, but each one of us is different, so your GP may have a reason for not wanting you on tramadol but he should explain it, and as I have just said to Argana, tramadol was manufactured to be like codeine and is similar in structure although it contains no codeine, but both of these should not be taken together, as it may cause some respiratory depression. This was all explained to me by my GP a while ago.

    Hope you don't have to do a sit-in Sara! :p

    hugs from Huggs xx :)

  • Cheers Huggs. Thanks for all the info. I have stomach problems as well and problems with lesions on the colon to be sorted next month. so don't know if that's why. I'm going to get a proper explanation from the doc next time I see him. Hope you are well Huggs. Any snow yet? Sara xx

  • Hi Sara,

    Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you, but I was on the mainland yesterday which turned out to be a difficult day and then fell asleep until awakened around midnight with the phone.

    That's a shame you are having problems with your colon, so all the luck and good wishes for getting that sorted out soon. I hope you get an explanation as well, about the painkillers.

    Have I had snow? YES!! I woke to it yesterday, and the road conditions were bad, and while I was in the hospital it had snowed even more, and when I got back home here, it had been worse than on the mainland, or at least where I was on the mainland. It was pitch dark when I arrived home, and when I approached my veranda, a heap of snow came tumbling down on top of me!! I screamed out loud as at first I didn't know what had happened! Sooo embarrassing, but there was heaps of the stuff, and I looked like a snowman. lol

    Some of the snow has disappeared and it is sunny for now, although there has just been hailstones, so who knows what we will get next. A lot of the country got snow yesterday, and more is forecast for here, tomorrow and Sunday.

    Take care,

    hugs from Huggs xx :)

  • Guess you really needed all that snow on your head after a day like that on the mainland! We heard you yell from here!

    We haven't had any snow in London, though some flakes were rumoured to have fallen in the next borough but Wimbledon is a show-off borough anyway what with their tennis and posh houses!

    I do hope the colon thing is okay. They are keeping an eye on it anyway so that's something the main thing.

    Hope you don't get snowed in over the weekend Huggs . I'd love to see some snow but we rarely get it in London. You take care now and you can scream away now. I've got my ear muffs on!

    Sara xxx

  • Hi Sara,

    The snow falling on me from the roof just put the tin lid on yesterday! LOL I must have looked a sight, and its surprisingly heavy when a load of it lands on top of you from a height! ha ha.

    I must admit to loving the snow, and have taken loads of photos of it this year as we didn't get any last year.

    You might get some over the weekend as its coming down from the north with a north wind blowing, so you never know. If we get more snow tomorrow, I am going to try and build a snowman, as I haven't done that in a few years now. Will need to look around for some kids to borrow and pretend I am doing it for them. lol

    Have you been bothered by your colon for a while Sara? That is something you do not need on top of everything else, so hope they sort it out quickly for you, and your painkillers get sorted out too.

    hugs from Huggs xxx :)

  • I have IBS huggs which every now and then gets severe and causes bad pain. They decided to give me a colonoscophy when they discovered a suspect nodule which turned out to be a benign tumour. A year later they discovered two more, one quite big, but thankfully both benign. If they remain they can turn malignant I'm told. Hence the rechecking. As for pain, I free at the moment touch but will have a word with doc next month.

    Doubt if we'll get any snow Huggs but enjoy yours. If you can't hijack kids, you can always build a snowman! (for them of course!)

    Sara xxx

  • I mean I'll have a word with doc about the PAINKILLERS I'm on! Sounds like I'm asking him for some pain. Think I need a nap!!

  • LOL :d

    hugs from Huggs xx :)

  • HI Sara,

    That's a shame, but at least they are on top of the situation which is reassuring, but still a pain. No pun intended. lol

    I have IBS too, but not as severely as that.

    I will build a snowman if I can, but the trouble is that at the minute, there are several layers of snow, which have individually frozen, then a layer of frozen hail, then more snow, all frozen which has resulted in the grass being more like an ice rink. Will see what tomorrow brings.

    hugs from Huggs xxx :)

  • I was on Co codamol 30 and that was never much help except migaines

  • hi offcut, nowt worse than pain.ooh i feel for you .

    theres a lot been mentioned about medication on the thread, but not much mention of cause ? , forgive me offcut if i sound ignorant [don't answer that lol :) ] but this pain and stiffness!! , is it arthritic pain ? have you ever had blood tests for ankylosing spondylitis ? its a simple blood test just to see if you have this hla 27 antigen [or words or figures similar to that!! :) ] ,

    i have ank spond, these symptoms ring a bell with me,,, ?

    anyway it doesn't sound like your g.p is too great, be a brave coward like me :D get him or her told !! your in severe pain, and cant sleep, and need treated promptly , some of these doctors are really most annoying,

    i do hope this improves offcut, but a wee bitty like me, its very difficult to go on like that, in fact blinken impossible

    i just thought this might be worth a mention as it could be a.s, and if so can be treated,,,

    i hope you get some sleep tonight, and you get some relief from this pain

    all the very best offcut,,, jimmy

  • I have RA in the Knees, Arthritis in the Feet, Back Neck, Hands, Shoulders, I have 3 compression fractures in 3 vertebra which have now gone solid and arthritic. I have spells of a few days and it seems to ease up but at the moment it is unrelenting not forgetting the bouts of gout in-between!

    I think I have just lost faith in my GP's at the moment!

    Be Well

  • och i don't blame you offcut, it sounds real rotten.

    why not ask to be referred to a rheumy, then ask for an anti-tnf [humira ] treatment, these are once a fortnight self injections, they are for A.S. and R.A and other arthritic symptoms.

    even fentanyl pain patches from that so-called gp.

    bet he or she would know all about it if they had the same pain !!

    wish i could help offcut, i have went over the score

    lately, that fed up at times with pain took a big gobfull of oramorph and two diazepam, two dihydrocodeine, although i wouldn't advocate that, but it shows you what you'll do when your at your wits end. just to try knock yourself out,,

    hope things improve,,, jimmy

  • there is much said about using sedatives with serious chest conditions as these may depress the breathing further OK I avoid the Benzodiazipine group and stick to the 'Z' group of drugs (Zopiclone in my case) and find these do not depress the breathing as much.

  • I have zopiclone and they have in the past been a great help and relief but not at this present time. It is unrelenting :(

  • Yes I get nights like that too offcut it just seems as though the damn things have stopped working I know my doctor change me onto Temezepam for time like these it seems our body just gets used to things far to easy

  • Try and find a local arthritis group in your area our local group hire the hydro pool from the hospital and if your a member you can use it

  • pools and diaphragm issues do not like each other :(

  • You don't swim in this hydro pool they are body temperature we also hire a physiotherapist and she works with your painful joint

  • That might work?

  • Also ask your GP about acupuncture on the NHS physiotherapist's will give you a 6 week course I paid £40.00 per session for mine and needed 6 sessions

  • With me being on warfarin I sometimes leak after they think it has stopped :)

  • That happened to me when I had acupuncture wasn't on warfarin just don't where a white shirt lol

  • I did the first time I leaked my wife said what are all these red spots

  • Sault is the best thing to get blood stains out

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