Which of these statins - Simvastatin ... - British Heart Fou...

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Which of these statins - Simvastatin or Rosuvastatin - are more likely to cause muscle problems please? Thank you

Alpsholiday profile image
Alpsholiday

Hi All

SOME QUESTIONS -

What experience has anybody had with muscle problems with the above two?

And, if there are muscle problems on one of them, does changing to the other help?

Are hydrophilic statins better than lipophilic, as far as muscle problems go?

Which of the many statins available is least likely to cause muscle problems?

And lastly, why was I put on them if my total cholesterol was only 3.0?

Thanks

Alps

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100 Replies

It all depends on you, I’m afraid. It really is a lottery. What will affect person A will not affect person B. The good thing is, if one particular drugs creates problems, there’s no harm in stopping it and trying another. There are lots of statins and/or alternatives out there. Lowering cholesterol is big business!

The only way to know is to try.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Thanks curlyman

If you read my profile you will note that taking a short 12 week course of statins 4 years ago, has left me with long standing muscle aches.

I contend that, with a total cholesterol of only 3.0, I absolutely should NOT have been prescribed any statins at all.

Statins are poison, for a very few, like me.

I am finding all I can, as I intend to 'take this further'

Thanks

Alps

If you look into the drug, you’ll see it’s not simply prescribed for high cholesterol- it’s also anti-inflammatory and can prevent heart disease and strokes.

Thank you

I don’t know the second one you mentioned, but the first one gave me very severe chest pains and the atorvastin? Affected my memory and increased tiredness! I was referred to a study trial which I attend twice a year for an injection. 3 years now, although I could be on a placebo of course!!🙂 Trial called Orion4 . worth asking gp about it. I believe criteria is having tried two statins first! Ps: whatever someone’s level is now, there is a movement to have all over 50’s on a statin as a preventative measure!

Note please everyone! I am not pushing a conspiracy theory here.

Hello.Statins are a much contested subject, but most people should be able to find a statin that will work for them.

After my heart attack I was put on atorvastatin, and was suffering from muscle aches and leg cramps. I spent quite a bit of time trying to research which of the cocktail of medicines I was on was the cause, until I found an article from the Cleveland Clinic (link below) on the subject suggesting that a change from a lipophilic statin to a hydrophilic statin. I asked my doctor to be changed from atorvastatin to rosuvastatin - once my body had rid itself of atorvastatin I quickly noticed a difference, the aches are gone and no more leg cramps in the middle of the night.

So switching to a hydrophilic statin certainly worked for me. But we are all different and we all react differently to some of the medicines we're on - there was a post on the subject just recently where people posted that they were not able to tolerate a hydrophilic statin and changed to a lipophilic statin.

health.clevelandclinic.org/...

Thank you for your helpful comments

Alps

Same for me!

That is interesting. I too suffer from occasional cramp attacks in the middle of the night (lower legs / feet). I was wondering which one of my pill cocktail might be causing this.I take 80mg Altorvastatin last thing at night!!

I was on 80mg Atorvastatin at night now on 40mg rosuvastatin (max dose in both cases). As I've said we all react differently to some of the medicines we're on. Have a chat with your GP to see what he/she thinks.

I have been suffering from terrible muscle pain in both my arms. Doctor has taken me off Artovarstatin and will be trying me on a new one around 4th May.

Hi

Sorry to hear that you too have had muscle probs with statins

However, you're lucky to have a GP who has taken you off them

Mine didn't, despite me complaining many a time

Last point - make sure the aches have all stopped before trying a new one

A chemist I talked to after stopping all statins in April 17 told me that.

Otherwise, you won't know if the old one is still to blame or the new one

Alps

Hi.That's a great piece of advice, thank you. Hope you manage to get all your questions answered soon. Take care.

porsche profile image
porsche in reply to mike2002

Wow, 80mg! I was on 40mg & felt dreadful with painful limbs & joints.

A week ago I was put on atorvastatin in hospital after a double valve repair, and mitral pouch occlusion because of AFib. I shall check with my GP my cholesterol level as I haven't been told. I am out of hospital and every night, 3 hours after taking the statin I wake up with nausea and bloating, which does not help the AFib, and which lasts into the next day, improving in the afternoon.

I have also had one or two episodes of intense muscle pain across my shoulder blades and in my thighs, really unbearable, and feel worse, more tired, than on the 6th day after the op, before I was put on atorvastatin.

I am not taking any more until I have a scheduled talk with my GP on Friday.

I told the medical team in hospital after the first episode, an I wasn't given any the following day, but then they put me on it again. I don't know if it's a lower dose, or a different statin, but I can't bear feeling like this!

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star

Many people have no problems at all taking statins. Probably the silent majority.

A few will have problems. Some will have perceived problems as they have read the negative comments of others. The mind and body connection is powerful.

There are new developments in the treatment of high cholesterol.

A twice yearly injection is being trialed by the NHS.

gmjournal.co.uk/nhs-to-tria...

Thank you milk fairy

Any ideas why I was started on them with a total cholesterol of 3.0 please?

That sounds like a 'scatter gun' approach - throw 'all' the meds at the patient, in the hope one will work. But, what if one of the meds is Poison to muscles?

Please read my profile for more

Thanks

Alps

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply to Alpsholiday

As others have indicated statins are prescribed to reduce inflammation not just to lower cholesterol.

Also your Cardiologist could have been said to have been negligent if they had not followed the best available research evidence and prescribed statins to help prevent your coronary bypass failing due to a build up of plaque in the grafted blood vessels.

'Statins have been shown to reduce the progression of native artery atherosclerosis, slow the process of vein graft disease, and reduce adverse cardiovascular events following surgical revascularization.'

acc.org/latest-in-cardiolog....

Hi milkfairy

Thanks for your comments.

My c-RP at that time was 0.23 (<5) so no inflammation there.

Also, as I was on a vegan diet, my total cholesterol was low at 3.0, so unlikely to be cholesterol in the plaques.

And, no lifestyle factors at all.

I actually asked at St Thomas, prior to the CABG, if it was possible to do a biopsy of a plaque, to determine its 'ingredients' and age.

The ingredients, as you know, could be fatty substances, cholesterol, cellular waste products, calcium or fibrin.

However, they said that was not possible.

I had 3 year follow up artery scans last May and nothing was detected, with Full Flow the verdict.

My wife 'finding' me Vit K2/Mk7 in 2017 may well have helped.

So, I surmise, after reviewing all the possibilities, that the plaques were actually predominantly calcium.

Maybe, because during the 26 years as a vegan till 2016, I was taking 2.4 g of calcium daily?

Daily requirement, as you know, is 1.2g. So, double the dose!

Yes, I do believe that statins were unnecessarily prescribed by the specialist in Nov 16, as a 'scatter gun' approach.

I was under the Nurse led Cardiac team from May 16 to Nov 16, and they could have started statins, but said they were not indicated.

And, after doing lipid profiles and taking a detailed history, they suggested my problem was Familial Cardiac Atherosclerosis, for which statins is not the answer.

Nobody has been able to answer this question for me.

Thank you

Alps

Well, I believe Milkfairy has said it all as have a few others. I have lived in Singapore for over 20 years and obviously in a different Health Care System from UK NHS. When I visited Canterbury about 10 years ago I had reason to go to the doctor who enquired "why I was not on a statin" she went on to say that it was advisable and recommended in her medical practice to offer statins to over 65's even though my cholesterol was in the range of normal. She explained the other properties that Milfairy has stated including the preventative measures such as inflammation which can be more prevalent in older persons, stroke, heart and other issues. I had never known GPs prescribed statins in this way, however my Consultant Cardiologist has totally agreed with her suggestion all those years ago and I remain on statins, albeit a small dose of 20mg. Yes an element of small leg aches but I feel that is worth the price given the potential benefits. I agree, and it is well documented that statins are a well discussed and contentious medicine with two very different view points. Aren't all medicines "so called poison" ? Could it be the statins that are keeping your cholesterol low ? When it comes to statins, which in many cases are not a critical medicine, one must make a personal choice. I wish you all the best in your choice and way forward. Good luck from sunny Singapore.

Jack2019 profile image
Jack2019 in reply to Alpsholiday

I am 100% in agreement with you. I recently started investigating the anti inflammatory effect that doctors are promoting when convincing you to take a statin, especially if your cholesterol is well within normal range. So the claim is true in that in SOME situations statins reduced CRP levels in those with highish CRP. There are two statins that do this better than the rest. More statin is not better, would your health care provider be happy with zero LDL? You may like to read the attached, it helped me understand the anti inflammatory effect from statins. I hope it helps. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Hi Alps I will not be here much longer ...not dying!! Just too much work currently...I have what you call Familial CVD too .. chromosome 18 is it I cannot remember... must be statin fog!! No ..I gave up Atorvaststin after four months of agony...muscle wasting resulted in a broken ACL in my knee..took a few months to recover properly,... please watch the eminent cardiologist Dr Nadir Ali’s youtube video on statins which will give you all the information you need to understand your experience.. then you may want to take a few of your medical advisors to school.. very best wishes

mike2002 profile image
mike2002 in reply to Milkfairy

That is an interesting comment about the cardiologist possibly being shown to be negligent. Many people are prescribed pills with no meaningful follow up to discuss effects. Do you class that as negligence? I do.

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply to mike2002

A healthcare professional is expected to make shared decisions with their patients and monitor their patients appropriately.

This unfortunately is not happening especially at the moment because of the impact of the Covid pandemic.

mike2002 profile image
mike2002 in reply to Milkfairy

The pandemic is an excuse rolled out by the NHS for everything. It was not happening before.

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply to mike2002

Then I suggest you challenge the relevant professionals through the appropriate routes.

Hidden profile image
Hidden in reply to Alpsholiday

Can't you get that information from the doctor.

We live in a time of easy access to rubbish food, high levels of pollution and also high levels of stress. Have they taken into account these factors when considering what actually causes heart disease before giving Statins to the masses. If the medical profession are really serious about preventing heart disease then they should lobby to stop the sale of cigarettes, primarily and then look into how much sugar is so much a part of daily life. It’s hard to negotiate when walking down the average supermarket isle , a genuinely healthy diet . The cereals which people buy for their young kids are packed with sugar and “healthy” energy bars are a laugh. Obesity is at a high level and no wonder. It’s like climbing a slippery ladder and never reaching the top. I was told by a taxi driver in the Caribbean that young people are not living as long as their parents which he attributed to the junk diet.

Curlyman83 profile image
Curlyman83 in reply to Pollypuss

Spot on. The worst thing is, I asked to speak to my GP about diet and ended up talking to a pharmacist!! How mental is that!?

The worst thing was what she was espousing as a “healthy” diet was absolute nonsense. Cereal in the morning with skimmed milk - erm...no thanks!

There is so much conflicting information out there it’s impossible to know what right and what’s wrong. The skeptic in me feels this is done purposefully!

Kelling profile image
Kelling in reply to Milkfairy

With regard to your answer where you refer to those who suffer no adverse effects from these drugs as the "silent majority" - well perhaps this silent majority have no idea whether they have adverse effects or not or whether how they feel is because they have had a heart attack! I also believe true figures will never be found out for I am sure there are a great many of the population who believe "the doctor gave it - nowt wrong with it - get it down your neck - you have to have some pain before you get better - stands to reason" I apologise if I paraphrase but know there must be millions that have total trust in their doctor, and that a specialist is a god!

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply to Kelling

The mind body connection is very complex. This has been shown by various studies into the placebo effect

health.harvard.edu/mental-h...

The opposite is true too, people blame statins for their muscle aches it may or may not be true.

heartuk.org.uk/getting-trea...

health.harvard.edu/heart-he...

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star

Sometimes there is no answer.

Read your article and i also had a reading of 3.0 cholesterol level. I had 2 stents fitted last August and given rouvastatin low dose. After a week my legs felt weak and couldnt walk very far. I came off that statin and a few months after now on an alternative to statins. My whole body aches after any exercise and now attending an osteomologist and after one session felt better. He said my muscles were completely stiffened and needed a lot of manipulation to loosen up. If the alternative medication still causes me muscular problems i will stop taking them. What's the point of having a poor quality of life?

I tried Atorvastation, Pravastatin and Simvastatin, all giving me aching legs jinhibiting exercise. Rosuvastatin is however fine. The pathologist at my local hospital persuaded me to try it. She said it was a more modern drug which can be more effective with lower dosages.

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Star

Casual observation on a non-representative (i.e. very small) sample) suggests it may be marginally more common with Atorvaststin. However that sort of observation is akin to doing astronomy with your smart phone.

89mg Atorvaststin is a default treatment after stents and/or bypass to prevent restenosis and deterioration of bypasses as previously mentioned. As you had three severely blocked arteries you have CAD (coronary heart disease) and there will be some degree of blockage in other arteries. Besides reducing cholesterol statins stabilise any existing plaque and reduce irritation often a precursor to plaque formation.

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Star

Have you thought that it could be something entirely unrelated? A friend of a similar age to yourself has increasing stiffness and muscle aches for a few years and was eventually diagnosed with a form of Fibromyalgia. I will try and find out the exact diagnosis for you.

Exactly. Far too many People just so quick to blame the Tablets for everything....:(

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Star in reply to Snowflake20

Including getting older! 🤣🤣🤣

LOL. God, tell me about it Michael. I wish there was a Tablet to stop that - ha ha. !! 😂

Hosers2 profile image
Hosers2 in reply to MichaelJH

Cause and effect. Simvastatin, taken over a three year period was the cause of the aches, pains, and weakness for me. Once I realized statins might be the cause, I quit taking them and recovered completely within 30 days. However, five years later, I was instantly hit with Polymyalgia Rheumatica (PMR). The exact pains I had from taking Simvastatin. This was no “placebo effect” as claimed by the many shills for the big pharmaceutical companies. The

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Star in reply to Hosers2

PMR is the condition the friend mentioned earlier was diagnosed with. Are you suggesting statins caused this? My friend had never taken them. Treatment has consisted of painkillers, anti- inflammatories and steroid injection,

Hosers2 profile image
Hosers2 in reply to MichaelJH

Yes. If you read my personal history/story, you may see why I link the two together. There will be no statins, nor use for statins, in my future.

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Star in reply to MichaelJH

Alpsholiday , sorry it was PMR (Polymyalgia Rheumatica) was diagnosed with.

I read that pitavastatin is a modern statin that is one of the least likely to exhibit side effects and is one of the most potent in reducing LDL (bad) cholesterol. 2mg per day turned round my wife's high LDL count in only a month and gave her no side effects

Jack2019 profile image
Jack2019 in reply to santisuk

It is also the statin that is most effective at reducing inflammatory issues, and a very low dose is required to have that effect. Inflammation is the real problem IMO, not your LDL level.

Been taking Simvastatin for a couple of years now with absolutely no side effects!

mike2002 profile image
mike2002 in reply to Judym

I wonder what the positive effects are - never mind the side effects. I was on statins ever since they came out - many years - didn’t stop blocked arteries and heart attack.

Jack2019 profile image
Jack2019 in reply to mike2002

The positive effects are anti inflammatory properties, not all statins are created equal for this benefit. High dose statins primarily reduce cholesterol and as you have discovered that effect did not prove to be beneficial. This is my layman's opinion.

Snowflake20 profile image
Snowflake20 in reply to Judym

Me too!!

PhilGM profile image
PhilGM in reply to Snowflake20

So did I, makes you wonder!

Snowflake20 profile image
Snowflake20 in reply to PhilGM

Well, I'll just stop taking mine when my Cardiologist/Doctor tell me too. I get regular 'Medication Reviews'. Also, my view is 'Trust the Professionals'. They've always agreed in my case to take them so, so be it. I just listen....:)

Simva at 40mg although incredibly effective cause the most horrendous muscle problems. I stopped them at one point and my Cholesterol went from 3.1 to 7 in 48 hours. It doesn't mess about if you stop them. I went straight back on them. I have been taking them for about 8 years. I really believe I would be pushing up the daisies if it were not for them.Sorry I have never taken the second one you mention so are unable to comment.

Summing up, Simva really can cause severe muscle issues, not all the time but they do one hell of a job.

Boris789

Alpsholiday profile image
Alpsholiday in reply to Boris789

Hi Boris

So, you're saying that you are accepting the muscle aches, as long as the cholesterol is kept low by them?

Perhaps consider Ezetimibe as it does not cause muscle probs, as it targets cholesterol in the diet, not the liver?

Alps

Boris789 profile image
Boris789 in reply to Alpsholiday

Spot on Alps,Thank you so much for that, I shall speak to my doctor first thing Monday.

Wow, if only this became a solution.

Can't thank you enough for the info.

Take care

Boris 789

Boris789 profile image
Boris789 in reply to Boris789

Why why why people get involved in medical politics tells me they have a lot of time to use up. This site is for straight advice to help people not go into papers that I for one couldn't care two hoots about, and to what end , nobody is going to change anything. Scouring the internet in my opinion on medical issues is possibly one of the worst things one can do.I did it for years but stopped completely.

Boris789

Some good posts here.. but some questionable ones...all research shows that statins have zero affect on reducing the time to the end point of death.. your doctor knows that.. close friends who are doctors have admitted to me that they prescribe statins in line with guidelines and the free “conferences” the drug companies give them...in the nineteen eighties a subsidiary of the NHS called NICE actually arranged cash payments to doctors for prescribing statins... the side affects of muscle aches and brain fog are supposed to be only experienced by about 15% of patients .. this is a lie...much of the original trial info is still hidden...your vegan diet may have caused you some problems and you seem quite capable of doing your own research .. you need to download a few hundred research papers to get closer to a solution.. keep working on the biochemistry... for you statin sufferers you need to read Zoey Harcombe on the mavelonate pathway.. she is an expert dietician and jokes that her doctor daughter had no understanding of it!...Tim Spector has an excellent book on diets “The Diet Myth”....explaining that only one ever worked see the PREDIMED trial.....finding the cause of CVD may not help you but having read many research papers I believe that Vladimir Sabbotin gets close to the explanation and origin...to save you some reading time he did do a youtube video.. you need to listen carefully as his accent is difficult...there is also a great video out there by a top cardiologist in the USA called Nadir Ali where in his last slide he says the American medical profession must take responsibility for the fact they are one of the leading causes of death... if you have an appetite for the truth see also videos by Ivor Cummings.. a great researcher.. best wishes in finding your solution

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply to cornflakes1789

Can you provide the research evidence to support this comment please?

'All research shows that statins have zero affect on reducing the time to the end point of death.. '

You have also suggested that doctors act in an unprofessional and corrupt way.

mike2002 profile image
mike2002 in reply to Milkfairy

The medical profession is and always has been under intense pressure from the drug companies. You don’t have to be unprofessional or corrupt to swept along by the loudest narrative.

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply to mike2002

Please provide the evidence for this?

Research that statins having no affect on end point of death is very well known..you have access to the internet ..if you put my comment into a search engine which I have just done you have many choices .. researchgate and the BMJ to name but two reliable sources..this a forum for grown ups ?...my comment on how and why some doctors prescribe drugs can be taken any way you like they are obliged to follow government guidelines and if they do not they risk censure from the government ..these are government employees .. if you think doctors are corrupt in supporting drug companies when knowing that the drug they sometimes prescribe is either ineffective or causing serious side affects then this is not corruption it is serious negligence and in the USA as a consequence there are multiple class actions against drug companies which have resulted in many successful prosecutions by the FDA resulting in multimillion and multibillion dollar fines sadly years after these companies have already made much more money from the drug in question. If you read the judgments you will see the admissions by many drug companies that they lied about their drug trials. There is also a website which shows how much money doctors make from promoting drugs like statins as they are legally obliged to declare payments made to them...some declarations amount to hundreds of thousands of dollars for giving short talks in their communities on the benefits of statins...in the UK by following guidelines rather than giving you an opinion based on their knowledge and experience a doctor is effectively sometimes lying to you because he or she has to.. there are ways of persuading professional people tell you what they are not supposed to but failing this you must do your own research and avoid putting blind trust in anybody.. that is why healthunlocked is a good forum for patients who need comments from people with a wide variety of experience and knowledge and even you

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply to cornflakes1789

The BHF a charity has funded research into statins. They also support their use. The BHF does not profit in anyway from this advice.

bhf.org.uk/for-professional...

The BHF has a policy of not accepting funding from pharmaceutical companies.

healthunlocked.com/bhf/post...

Are you sure this still goes on . I thought freebies had been banned

Apologies Pollypuss I have no medical contacts in the UK you could be right about favours and incentives offered by drug reps or their companies now being illegal in the UK and was referring to practices in the USA and some Asian countries where it is still normal practice...I see the BHA has just posted that they do not have any such incentive relationships with drug companies so you must be right.. major drug companies ate still active in this area in other countries but they are powerful beasts and it is not wise to discuss this in public save to warn patients about getting second opinions and independent research on any drug before they take it on trust

This is worrying because it involves a great number of the world population being duped

Hosers2 profile image
Hosers2 in reply to Milkfairy

$$$$$ speaks a lot louder than ethics nowdays. Doctors and pharmaceutical people are no exception.

How many cures for the common toe fungus has been discovered? Yet, big pharm makes billions every year selling their worthless ointments.

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply to Hosers2

I was very grateful to receive my second dose of Astra Zenica Covid vaccine this week which has been produced by a pharmaceutical company at cost.

Hosers2 profile image
Hosers2 in reply to Milkfairy

I wasn’t implying that the pharmaceutical is indispensable. Not in the least! But they, like most people, have a desire to make as much money as possible. Some medications are cash cows for them, especially if they can convey that no harm is done through over prescriptions. And then, the companies are only as honest and above board as the people who peddle their wares.

If you read the Simvastatin website, you will absolutely read nowhere about the negative consequences of swallowing their drugs.

mike2002 profile image
mike2002 in reply to Hosers2

Statins are a cash cow for the ‘big pharma’. You can be sure they do everything possible to keep the cash flowing.

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply to mike2002

Astra Zenica is making no profit from their Covid vaccine during the pandemic.

Boris789 profile image
Boris789 in reply to Milkfairy

Maybe not but now the whole World knows the name Astra Seneca, fo you know the marketing costs if they had to pay for that exposure, they are playing the long game. Their customer base will probably quadruple, that's why they do this for 'Nothing'

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply to Hosers2

Every packet of medication comes with a list of benefits and possible side effects.

I suggest everyone reads this information before they start taking any medication.

Sorry ,Statins massively reduce cholesterol. That is a fact. I only speak for myself but I have absolute proof of before and after and the results are a no brainer

Hi Boris ...you are correct nobody disagrees with you but statins are inhibitors which also reduce other essential enzymes causing very serious side affects for some patients.. over sixties are more vulnerable ...cholesterol can be reduced through exercise and a Mediterranean diet .. the choice is yours

I know Cornflakes (gr8 name btw) but I am constantly trying to diet. It's been an issue all my life and I probably wouldn't have all these problems because if obesity but changing your diet listening to these ads do reduce cholesterol but so slightly and weight loss of many many kilos might make a bigger difference but the Statins reduce it massively and quickly. As I said when I stopped them last year, within 2 days it went from 3.2 to 7 . I need my Cholesterol low even under 3. If I can improve my diet it drops to 3 but eating junk and it goes to 3.8 which is fine for most people. My last angiogram showed severe narrowing but no flow restriction so I have no leeway. That was about 4 years ago. I would love another angiogram but they are impossible to get as a test gue to the risks. The only way is to complain of severe chest pains and I don't want to do that what with Karma and things.I wouldn't be comfortable. I don't think I would be talking to you without the Statins doing their work .

I know they are not good to take but but it's a risk ratio factor.

Thanks for all your feedback

Keep well

Boris789

Sorry Boris my flippant reply was to your last post on the tedium of too much research .. I just read your earlier longer post on your dilemma of diet and weight loss where statins give a quick cholesterol fix.. I fully understand your predicament and sympathise completely.. ..finding the required motivation to make big changes is sometimes impossible... I cannot say here in a few words what maybe best for you but there are good guys out there who want to help you just have find a few.. I think Dr Nadir Ali is one who now is out of his cath lab and doing more for his patients through diet and exercise .. you can find him on you tube.. along with some crazy stuff... great jazz ...did not know Charlie Watts hated rock and loved jazz from the age of ten.. he finally got his dream and formed his own jazz quintet a few years back .. all that rock and roll cash finally came in useful..

Cornflakes all this reading, I went through that years ago. The internet is awash with stuff and I feel best left alone , it can drive one insane and dues nothing really to help once you have decided to stay on a drug. A lot of people on this site are retired and have loads of time on their hands. Boatbuilding I understand is very therapeutic

Boris 789

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Star in reply to Boris789

A friend does marquetry. I don't think I would have the patience for it but he has made some beautiful pieces.

I understand.. anyway changing the subject I bet your new flat over no 11 looks lovely and more importantly her indoors must be totally chuffed 😊

All of them did with me. I would quextion your GP a out why you are on them with cholexterol of 3. Im no expert but it seems a bit odd.

Hi goldfish

I stopped all statins 4 years ago but the aches are still there

Yes, agreed that I should never have been started on them

Alps

Boris789 profile image
Boris789 in reply to Goldfish7

If you are referring to me Goldfish it's because of the Statins that they are at 3.

I did stop them last year and in 48 hours the cholesterol was up to 7. So what am I supposed to do?

Simvastatin devastated me. I firmly believe taking Simvastatin caused my eventual PMR. And it didn’t lower my cholesterol 2%.

I think it is interesting however, that despite many who have had PMR for years, there are many who still take statins, while not even considering any possible causes of their illness.

I will read and research any list available. My first year of retirement was ruined due to PMR (not Covid). Despite naysayers and know it alls, and despite the pharmaceutical trolls leading them to their eventual demise, I plan on warning as many potential victims as possible. Whether they heed the warning, and do their own research, is up to them. We certainly cannot count on the pharmaceutical giants to always do the right thing. Not when it comes to the big bucks to be made.

I strongly recommend a youtube video by the cardiologist Nadir Ali who explains statins very well and quite tactfully until you see his last slide.. if you want revenge there are plenty of stories on Dr Malcolm Kendrick’s blog.. he is a GP good on CVD and quite a good scientist, a bit too fiery for me...I joined a while back when looking for answers but left without commenting...when Covid started intelligent CVD advice stopped and senseless Covid arguments started... worth checking microbiome function and invest in moderate exercise.. swimming if possible..another youtube video you may like is by Ivor Cummings an expert problem solver unsatisfied with his medical advice he did research and now explains to the medical profession how his use of Researchgate enabled him to discover that diabetes and CVD are interlinked .... have fun

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Star in reply to cornflakes1789

May I ask what your interest in this group is? You have left your profile empty and have not indicated that you are a fellow "Heartie". It would be good to know you are a genuine member rather than an anti statin and anti pharmaceutical company blogger.

As a lifelong diabetic I can assure you the link between poorly controlled diabetes, particularly Type II, has been known about for decades. Whilst initially the main additional factors were thought to be being overweight/obese, poor diet and lack of exercise it was then realised that irritation was a major factor. Statins help to reduce this irritation. Cummings did not discover this!

Hi Michael.. finding this blog hard work as I do not have much time and I fear I must exit soon ... thanks for your comments on diabetes of which you obviously have extensive experience ...I have CVD .... I found an impressive video by Ivor Cummings for my doctor who asked me for some western research on diabetes...I am British but live in China most of the time and usually spend the summer in London ...Covid has interrupted that. I got stable angina in the UK and returned to China for stenting three years back.. had a second stent 5 months ago and through much research and many mistakes I have found peace and good health but checking the BHF help site for info on people’s stories on long term use of blood thinners I found yet more horrendous stories on statin misuse.. I am not anti statin like the famous Dr Malcolm Kendrick for whom I have great respect but I do understand lipid biochemistry and Dr Nadir Ali’s excellent presentation video on statins on youtube should be compulsory viewing for every GP and cardiologist. So I am a real person managing CVD successfully and I must say that BHF is doing a good job trying to let people help each other through shared experience which addresses the failings of the system as pointed out by Dr Nadir Ali .. I wish you well with your discussions and hope you find some solutions which give you the best patient outcome possible

I don't know about muscle pains etc. but I have been on a small cocktail of drugs since I had a CABG×4 more than 14 years ago. In simple terms these lower heart rate, reduce blood pressure, thin the blood and reduce plaque formations. I think I started on Simvastatin but one problem I had was that my HDL (good) cholesterol was too low - so the ratio of LDL (bad) to HDL cholesterol was too high. The consultant suggested using Rosuvastatin and my HDL cholesterol went up, reducing the ratio of LDL:HDL - which was good too. As rosuvastatin had had a beneficial effect, the powers that be couldn't swap it for a cheaper older statin - and I was happy to continue using it too. In those days the drug was still in patent - and Crestor (the trade name for rosuvastatin) was expensive. I'm happy to say it's available as a generic now.

Not all statins are equal so the availability of 5 or so licensed statins to try out if you have muscle pains is good news. My personal view is that if you have confirmed CAD or CVD then taking a cocktail of drugs is advisable, even though some of the vital measurements (resting pulse, bp, cholesterol etc) maybe within acceptable/normal limits. But to give drugs to otherwise well people IMHO more questionable ... without good evidence.

Boris789 profile image
Boris789 in reply to Fish4Info

I am interested that you take a drug that reduces plaque. My cardiologist said it's almost impossible to remove. Is their such a drug and is it effective, if so could I possibly trouble you for the name.

Many thanks

Boris789

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star

Fergus perhaps tone the language down?

The use of the word c**t is offensive, demeaning and disrespectful to women.

Hi

I have reported your inappropriate language

Alps

Andy_c profile image
Andy_c in reply to Alpsholiday

I have also reported you.

Revolting and unnecessary language. You may have it in common usage but others do not and object to it.

I switched to Rosuvastatin as I had terrible cramps and pains with Avorastatin. Much better and huge improvement. But like everyone says, each one can prompt a reaction in you different to others.

I’ve also reported your offensive language

Well done Tannigirl

Trust HU will take action now

4 people have now reported this offensive poster - any more?

Thanks!

Alps

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply to Alpsholiday

Me too

Thanks Milkfairy

That comment should have been deleted by HU several hours ago! It’s enough to stop people from logging in

Seems everyone is put on Statins, even if their cholesterol is okay. I was put on Atorvastatin almost routinely, although my cholesterol was fine. I think because the doctors think it takes pressure off the heart?

Alpsholiday profile image
Alpsholiday in reply to Emgee

Hi

Can I ask please

- your cholesterol numbers

- and are you having any side effects, which are usually muscle aches?

Thanks

Alps

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