Vaccinations

[Wheezycat]

I have just booked my vaccinations. I am in group 4.

[elanaoali]

Brillant hoping that all those with serve asthma get their jab soon like you are

[Wheezycat in reply to elanaoali]

I am half expecting a delay as York really has been on the ball about this. It seeems doses will be held back to allow London to catch up.

[MELNEL]

Happy to hear that you getting vaccinated. Best wishes and stay safe and warm!! 🏵️🌺🏵️🌺

[Wheezycat in reply to MELNEL]

I put it on here to encourage others to believe it is on its way.

[MELNEL in reply to Wheezycat]

Happy for you 😊. I don't know if I get one, because immunosuppressive and will take time to put in place I read.

[Wheezycat in reply to MELNEL]

At least the more people get it it will also help people in your situation!

[Lysistrata Administrator Community Ambassador]

I'm London and group 4, got a text yesterday from a hospital hub and had it today! So maybe elsewhere in the south-east needs to catch up but London is doing better than I thought.

I got Pfizer and have a sore arm which I see as a demonstration that it's working. I felt similar with this year's flu jab.

[Wheezycat in reply to Lysistrata]

Great! I get mine on Sunday ( unless too many doses have been diverted to London).

[Pipsqueak77 in reply to Wheezycat]

In my region ( South West) my parents who are both in their 80s and CEV haven’t had their jabs yet... so I’m certainly not holding my breath!!!😬😬😐Take care

[twinkly29 in reply to Wheezycat]

They wouldn't have let people book if they didn't have the vaccines allocated. They'll be working on ok we've got this supply coming/here now and then invite people. And they'd better not be diverting vaccines anywhere as I'm also Yorkshire and if other less-far-on areas can move on to other groups why can't we? I don't think it is happening but was rather outraged yesterday when I heard it!

[Wheezycat in reply to twinkly29]

I’ll update tomorrow. It seems Yorkshire has been really efficient, whereas London is lagging behind. But then we all saw Jon Snow getting his yesterday, and I guess he is also group 4. But, yes, I also felt less than good about it.

[Nutzs47 in reply to Wheezycat]

Yep Leeds has been pretty good at getting the program up and running and im glad my dad who’s 80 got both his doses 3weeks apart as apparently their now diverting the vaccine to other areas who arent doing as well so anyone who gets their first dose has now to wait until their recalled for the 2nd instead of being prebooked for it like my dad was

[twinkly29 in reply to Nutzs47]

That's more likely linked to the national change to dosing (which was changed to the 12 weeks at the end of Dec/early Jan) than any potential diverting (which was in some headlines last week but not actually been confirmed as a thing). My grandma has had both doses too because her second was due at that time the 12 week thing appeared. But not since then are automatically with 12 week gaps - in all areas.

[Pipsqueak77 in reply to twinkly29]

The absolute worst thing is people who are having two doses before other very at risk groups have even had the first...!Sorry - but this is really not acceptable and has made me quite angry this week. More than anything else!!😐

Take care👍

[twinkly29 in reply to Pipsqueak77]

Some people have had 2 because their second jabs were booked in for the first week of Jan when they were still finalising things. But some people's second ones are health care workers where they are using up leftovers rather than them going to waste I think.

[Pipsqueak77 in reply to twinkly29]

Hi

Yes...And some are just people who are complaining and don’t look at the science.....

Sorry.. that’s a fact!

Take care👍

[EmmaF91 Community Ambassador in reply to Pipsqueak77]

Mind you the science says the jabs should be given about 6 weeks apart. It’s our government that’s decided to ignore the science and says it’s ok to double that gap. However there’s research now coming out that the longer gap makes the vaccines a lot less efficient in at least 1 of the vaccines...

Covid: Gap between Pfizer vaccine doses should be halved, say doctors bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55777084

[Pipsqueak77 in reply to EmmaF91]

Hi

Yep.. as scientists we all agree that in an ideal world with endless vaccines the gold standard is for everyone to have two doses ( of the Pfizer vac at least) approx 4-6 weeks apart.

However we don’t live in an ideal world .. so I’m afraid it’s all about doing the best we can for the most amount of people in the shortest time.. oh and with not enough resources!

That’s called ‘ sharing’ and is a very basic condition that supposedly sets us apart as humans!

Take care👍

[EmmaF91 Community Ambassador in reply to Pipsqueak77]

I can understand your frustrations. I’m group 2 (HCP) and am working (self employed and now I can’t afford not to). I had a asthma friend die in my local hospital from covid this week. However I have not yet had my first dose and this is because my area has restricted access to the vaccines. We only really started vaccinating our over 80s last week due to limited supply, and whilst I’m glad to hear that some group 4s are starting to get it I’m also very jealous as I have not been able to.

I’m not upset by people having 2 doses cause that’s the correct dose and actually means that it’s worked properly and will have a better effect for all than it will if everyone had 1. After all it’s in essence the ones most likely to land in ITU/a casket who are getting it first (that’s how the groups are decided - most CEV are at the same risk as 70yos hence them being grouped, but HCP are at more risk of catching it and more risk of ITU (through overexposure) so are in with the 80yo etc (plus we need HCP working in the hosps and not at home with covid 😅)) - if they can get 90% immunity from 2 doses that will reflect in less hosp admissions, whereas if they are only protected 20-40% on 1 dose then their numbers are still going to fill beds.

I’m frustrated by the supply chain. Some areas (cities mostly) have all the supply and have started on group 4, whilst other areas are struggling to do group 2 right now. This is my frustration. I’m glad that those who can get are, and once they’ve had 1 dose they should have the 2nd otherwise 1 dose is pretty pointless esp when they don’t know the long term consequences of giving the 2nd dose 12+ weeks later (so may make it less effective overall), but the gov needs to sort the supply chain out so that the more rural areas get better access than they have rn. Get things redirected to the rural areas which are behind and still in cat 2...

Ps it’s not the individuals fault/choice - if you’re group 4 and getting stab 1 I’m jealous but I’m not blaming you - I don’t want anyone to feel guilty about having the vaccine - I’m really glad for you!

[Lysistrata Administrator Community Ambassador in reply to Pipsqueak77]

But above you said people are complaining and ignoring the science.

Now you're saying we have to make the best of resources - and the article Emma posted said that some medical opinion considers the longer gap is not currently supported by the science.

Neither problem exists in a vacuum, and as I'm sure you are aware as a scientist yourself, scientists are not a monolithic group of people, and scientific opinion is currently divided on the best approach to this problem.

[Pipsqueak77 in reply to Lysistrata]

I will repeat my original thoughts.. as you guys are clearly missing the point.

Until we have definitive answers about all the vaccines optimum conditions the best that we can currently do is to protect as many of the population as quickly as possible. Whatever level of protection that might be is better than none at all. This is my reason for not agreeing with thousands of 2nd vaccines at this point in time - not frustration for myself as Emma seems to think...? I’m not that selfish... I am more concerned about the elderly and ill who are having to wait longer for a first dose because others insist they need 2 and are happy to be very vocal about it despite having no credible scientific data to back this up. So at this point in time with the resources and the knowledge that we have now.. I concur with the government and SAGE..protect as many people as quickly as possible.

When we have the luxury of endless vaccines then second doses can be sensibly addressed. Hopefully we will have better data to support this decision then too.

The world is a much better place if we share what we have....

Take care

[Lysistrata Administrator Community Ambassador in reply to Pipsqueak77]

Not missing your point, just pointing out that there are varying scientific opinions on this. There's a difference between not understanding and not agreeing.

I'm not quite sure why you're suggesting there is no credible evidence for giving the jabs closer together. That's literally what the vaccine studies are based on for Pfizer and Moderna. There isn't currently any evidence about the effect of longer gaps. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be fine with a longer gap, but that's where the evidence is lacking currently - we actually do not know, whereas we do have evidence for the shorter gap.

I get that you agree with the current gvt approach to get first jabs in asap, but disagreeing and wanting people to get two jabs closer together is not ignoring the science. Other credible sources (not just in the UK) think that vaccinating people according to the trial schedule may be safer in the long term, even allowing for the supply issue, since stretching it out too long may encourage the virus to become resistant to vaccines. This article discusses both sides of the argument: statnews.com/2021/01/04/bri...

It's a complex issue and I can see the arguments on both sides. I can see why the government is doing this and why you agree with them, but I don't agree with you blasting people who disagree with that approach and saying that they have no scientific basis for it and don't understand.

[Pipsqueak77 in reply to Lysistrata]

I have not blasted anyone... I think you don’t like others having a different opinion to you.

Unprecedented times call for unprecedented decisions and actions by the people in charge..hindsight is a wonderful thing!All of your quoted articles and papers are just the beginning... and in a few years we will have thousands of them with all different views and opinions... some right some wrong.

What is important is the here and now and how we deal with it on the ground...I’m not sure some poor stressed over worked NHS nurse/doc is particularly interested in scientific papers right now. They want and need action.

So difficult decisions will and have to be made... but what is important is that they are fair and just and do not disadvantage any member of society...

Please don’t reply as we clearly are not going to see eye to eye on this...

Take care

[Lysistrata Administrator Community Ambassador in reply to Pipsqueak77]

Good grief. You're right, we should leave it there. We're never going to see eye to eye on this, given that me saying I can see multiple sides of this complex problem is apparently equivalent to me not liking a different opinion.

[Pipsqueak77 in reply to Lysistrata]

😂 there you go again.... you can’t help it can you!!???🤣Btw .. Wheezycat sorry for hijack..

[Wheezycat in reply to Pipsqueak77]

No worries. I am reading you both and you both have some valid arguments as far as I understand it. It is all complex, isn’t it, and much that is still unknown and unknowable, until we know more. How is that for a circular argument!

[Pipsqueak77 in reply to Wheezycat]

Hi

Thanks 👍 you are right - it will be many years before we know half the answers..

Good Luck with your vaccine.. I hope it goes well 🤞🤞

Take care 😊

[Hidden in reply to Pipsqueak77]

I'm not sure if you're aware, that's not how discussions work. It's not 'here is my opinion, it is correct' and then tell people they can't respond.

Your final response here has been so rude.

[Pipsqueak77 in reply to Hidden]

Hi

I have never said that my opinion is correct but I am entitled to it nonetheless.

You must not forget that this was someone else’s post and even when the conversation had clearly run it’s course there was a back lash nasty reply... it would have been nice to have left it that we begged to differ on opinion and moved on as in all good debates but I was not afforded that.

Hence my reply....

👍

[Hidden in reply to Pipsqueak77]

I didn't read it as a nasty reply but then, I'm not as emotionally invested in it as you.

[EmmaF91 Community Ambassador in reply to Pipsqueak77]

Not missing your point. I just don’t agree with it 😅 so wanted to put down my opinion on it. Right now we’re not following the known science and there’s a lot of risk doing this and it could end up really kicking us up the backside 😅, either with possible vaccine resistant mutations or people never getting fully resistant as they’ve done their testing within a certain timeframe and they know 1 dose ‘wears off’ (for want of a better description 😅) hence needing the 2nd dose to build on it within a certain timeframe.

I understand why the Gov has tried to do ‘1 vaccine for all’ and why people like the idea, I just don’t agree with that approach. IMO it’s better to get 10 people at most risk at 90% resistance so only 1 bed is used (and 10 people not protected = 11 total), than 20 people at 30% where 14 beds end up being used and then never reaching 90% as they have waited too long for the most effective 2nd dose that would have got them to 90%.

Also I feel that if there’s left overs at the end of the day they are better in arms than in bins - HCP having a 2nd dose from leftovers etc (atm the Gov is threatening to remove vaccination licences if they give people dose 2... even when it’s a dose that will be binned otherwise) but this is a separate issue

But I can understand people preferring trying to get everyone with 1 dose. I just disagree with the approach as I said and I’d rather stick to the known science on a drug when they haven’t had a chance to investigate different approaches so we don’t know what will happen 😅

Look after yourself

[EmmaF91 Community Ambassador in reply to EmmaF91]

But anyway this isn’t really the place for this discussion (as that’s what it is). I’m glad you’ve been called up wheezycat! And I hope it goes well for you ☺️

[Wheezycat in reply to EmmaF91]

I am glad, too, as I am one of the vulnerables due to age, but also borderline due to asthma for shielding plus other stuff. I can see both sides of the argument as I am a confirmed, and proud, fence sitter. ( And I follow the arguments re Swedish approach, both in Swedish news papers, and that riles me enough - but that is really not for here.)

[Hidden in reply to Pipsqueak77]

It's no good 'sharing' the vaccines if it means none of us will be protected because the vaccine didn't work properly because the gap was too long.

You're oversimplifying your argument.

[SteK78 in reply to EmmaF91]

It is worrying that the government are going against what they've been advised to do and what was shown to work best during the trials re the Pfizer jab – the longer delay seems to work better for the Oxford vaccine but they're still doing a study on the efficacy of the halfdose/full dose regime in the US, which will take a while

Though we've approved the Moderna jab we won't get stock of that till end of March/April at the earliest which doesn't entirely help as though it's an RNA vaccine like Pfizer it doesn't need to be stored at such low temperatures, -20 if I recall correctly.

Hopefully the Jansen/Johnson & Johnson vaccine will be approved as expected in the next two weeks or so, that is just a one dose vaccine and we can get stocks of that, so that would help things massively if approved and the supply we are supposed to get does flow into the system

It is frustrating though that areas doing well now seem to be forced to put the handbrake on to allow other to catch up – in Herefordshire we were right up near the top of the vaccinated table with Gloucestershire – in fact Gloucestershire did say if supply kept up they could vaccinate the entire Phase 1 list in their area by mid February – but my mum is now waiting for hers, she's 75 so we'll know how it's going when she gets her call

[Wheezycat in reply to Pipsqueak77]

My second one will be in April quite some time away.

[elanaoali]

I praying that your jabs will go ahead with no more delays. My doctors are on number 3 so nearly to 4. I am 6 so will be waiting longer for mine.

[Thomas45]

I am I'm group 3, and I am in the wrong place, due to first a fractured fibula and then a damaged nerve. I am staying with an older brother, 3 hours away from my home.Because I have gone beyond the 3 months allowed for Temporary Registration, his medical practice originally wanted me to travel home to have the vaccine at my own medical practice. I am unable to drive because of the damaged nerve.

After two letters and two phone calls they agreed I could have the jab through them. My brother had to remind them that the N in the NHS, is important

None of us or others we know in our age group has yet been contacted.

[CDPO16]

I'm CEV living in the NW of England. No sign of me getting the vaccine in the near future. Only got my flu vaccine 2 weeks ago!