If you have respiratory disease or suffer from asthma, when you move house you have to take into consideration all the factors that affect you. You would make sure you don’t live next to a farm, or a building site, or land that can be built on. However, you cannot make allowances for buildings being upgraded or road-works in an area.
Building companies and road-works companies just want to complete their works without being inconvenienced by people with breathing problems. If that means inconveniencing respiratory disease & asthma sufferers & they have to leave their own property, at their own expense, the companies causing the nuisance are laughing.
Unfortunately nuisance law specifically excludes anything or anybody that are very sensitive, which means that respiratory disease & asthma sufferers are excluded from the only law they could use. This is a very strange situation, that a group of the most vulnerable citizens of the country are singled out, leaving their lives in danger, so that builders and councils etc. do not have to do anything to help respiratory disease & asthma sufferers from the nuisance that is being caused by their works.
The law in the UK is stacked against people with asthma even in their own home.
10% of the UK residents have asthma, 3 people a day die from asthma and there are nearly 80,000 emergency hospital cases of asthma each year. If you add those who suffer from respiratory disease this is lots more. It would be far more cost effective to have respiratory disease & asthma sufferers moved away from danger. Asthma sufferers would rather stay in their home and the works not done. This is not practical, neither is living in conditions that could kill them. The practical solution is for builders and the like to have a small contingency to move the small people who are affected by these works. This will have the benefit of cutting down on hospital admissions, doctors appointments, medication etc. Further it would mean that respiratory disease and asthma sufferers would be free to do productive work, and boost the economy.
We want to change the law so that people in their own homes would have the same legal redress when affected by local external influences, (e.g. building work) as people in the workplace would receive from their employers.
We are inviting people to join us if they would support an e- petition to the UK Government to change the law.
We would like to encourage everyone to spread the word about this group. Feel free to make posts relating to asthma.
Either go on Facebook and search for Asthma E- Petition or use this link:
...the companies causing the nuisance are laughing.
That implies that you think roadworkers and builders are actively seeking to disadvantage asthma sufferers, rather than this disadvantage being an unfortunate side-effect of the work taking place!
Sorry, but I can't agree with this petition. Where do you stop? Should I get legal redress against someone who happens to be smoking a cigarette as they walk past me in the street, or who happens to be wearing strong perfume on the same bus as me? It's unworkable, and seems rather over-the-top in my opinion.
The Environmental Protection Act 1990 section 79 states the following matters constitute “statutory nuisances”:
(a)any premises in such a state as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance;
(b)smoke emitted from premises so as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance;
(c)fumes or gases emitted from premises so as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance;
(d)any dust, steam, smell or other effluvia arising on industrial, trade or business premises and being prejudicial to health or a nuisance;
(e)any accumulation or deposit which is prejudicial to health or a nuisance;
(f)any animal kept in such a place or manner as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance;
fa)any insects emanating from relevant industrial, trade or business premises and being prejudicial to health or a nuisance;
fb)artificial light emitted from premises so as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance;
(g)noise emitted from premises so as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance;
(ga)noise that is prejudicial to health or a nuisance and is emitted from or caused by a vehicle, machinery or equipment in a street;
(h)any other matter declared by any enactment to be a statutory nuisance.
There are a numerous exceptions which I will not bore you with on the forum. However, staututory nuisance takes into account what would be classed a nuisance for the average person. So for example, bonfires are being lit every day for a month then action would likely to be taken as this for the average person would be a nuisance. If the bonfire happened once this would not be classed as a stautory nuisance for the average person. Whatever respiratory disease or other illness you might have would not be taken into account.
The bit you missed off the statutory neusance list was the the egg shell exclusion. This means that anyone or anytning that is classed as hypersensitive.
Therefore anyone who gets asthma from a building site over 400M away would not be covered.
We think that people who are medically proven to be affected inside their own home should have legal redress regardless.
No I have not missed off the list what you call the ""egg shell exclusion"" points a) to h) are the only grounds for which you can legally take a statutory nuisance case.
There is case law which says statutory nuisance must have regard to what most people consider to be reasonable, i.e. the standards of ""the Average Reasonable Person"". You cannot expect a higher standard because of any undue sensitivity of the complainant e.g. asthma.
If you considered that your asthma was caused by building works or road works you have the facility available to take your own private action against the companies involved. So there is already a method of redress. Though I would expect that you would find it difficult to prove that they are at fault and you would be responsible for your own legal fees and if your case failed you would be responsible the other parties legal fees. Which tends to put most people off.
You may also be covered in certain circumstances under the health and safety at work act 1974 as employers have a duty of care for members of the public. So this is yet another legal method of redress. So why do we need a change in legislation.
I should also add even if you have gone to your local environmental health officer for a statutory nuisance issue even if they have investigated the case and found the issue not to be a statutory nuisance. If you still felt strongly about the issue you still have the option to take a private nuisance case if you so wished.
If you have respiratory disease or suffer from asthma, when you move house you have to take into consideration all the factors that affect you. You would make sure you don’t live next to a farm, or a building site, or land that can be built on. However, you cannot make allowances for buildings being upgraded or road-works in an area. I think anyone moving would take such factors and others into account. What is wrong living next to a farm though?! There has been a lot of work published about the hygiene effect and protection meaning developing asthma is less likely particularly for children that grow up on farms.
Building companies and road-works companies just want to complete their works without being inconvenienced by people with breathing problems. If that means inconveniencing respiratory disease & asthma sufferers & they have to leave their own property, at their own expense, the companies causing the nuisance are laughing. They are probably more concerned about penalty clauses in the contract if they do not complete on time.
I feel it is rather an extreme measure too. There is no doubt it is a subject you are keen about. It may be difficult to get this petition anywhere never mind such a change in the law.
This is precicely why. What is needed is a bit of common sense. We don't want people to have to go theough the law on every issue, with long drawn out, expensive cases, where the sufferer, has to live with the polution. We want to save lives.
We are not looking at getting money for people, we are looking for people to be moved out of harms way. Again we are not looking for 5 star hotels, just the basics.
This would mean that builders or councils, who do mostly have housing stock available, that could use temporarily to move people, should do so.
This would help many of the people each day with the control of their asthma. Householders cannot get away from their triggers if they are getting them because they have to live in their own house and it is coming from an external source.
A small provision in contracts for the very few cases that can't be covered by spare housing stock would be all that were needed.
In reality, just a bit of corporate good will.
You initially say that:
We want to change the law so that people in their own homes would have the same legal redress when affected by local external influences, (e.g. building work) as people in the workplace would receive from their employers.
But then go onto state:
We don't want people to have to go theough the law on every issue, with long drawn out, expensive cases, where the sufferer, has to live with the polution. We want to save lives.
Even if you do get the law changed, those affected would still have to take some sort of action either privately or through local councils.
We are not looking at getting money for people, we are looking for people to be moved out of harms way. Again we are not looking for 5 star hotels, just the basics.
If you are a council tennant or renting a property a HHSRS assessment can be undertaken on your property and if category 1 hazards are found and the risk to health is severe the council can move the tennant into temporary accomadation.
Also local authorities have mechanisms in place to declare air quality management area where pollution is an issue.
Personally, I cannot see what you are trying to achieve as legislation is already in place to deal with the matters you mention.
I had absolutely no idea that moving would provoke my asthma, nobody warned me about any triggers associated with going from one place to another & all that that entailed, which leads me to think everyone's triggers differ so how could anyone have known how I would have been affected before I moved.
Living in cities its just impossible to move to the ideal Atlantic breezy hilly spot. While not perfect I love where I live now and wouldn't want to be moved out of it. Instead I fight back:
Nobody told me about works that were to be carried out either, but I managed to stop certain building works continuing until certain safety measures were put in place (ie common sense), which they then were at my request. I take health and safety (when its not followed) seriously and always quote such acts when its appropriate - this alone I find helps others in breach to hear and listen and act responsibly, as in the case of those building works - but that's just me standing up for my rights. I do believe the law as it exists helps and that so far I have not had to contact any solicitors etc.
rant over!!
1986 I moved to a beautiful house in parkland with a primary school over the fence.
2006 they knock down the school having built another on the other side of the park.
2010 A new state of the art health and social care centre opens on the site.
In every step of the way, the builders and architects came around our small street with drawings, plans and suggestions on living right next door to the building site.
On the one occasion I had to go round and say their drilling machine right next to our fence had produced a deep film of muddy dust over my car, they said to take the car for a complete valet and they would pay for it. Which they did.
Generally I find that if you deal with people and powers that be in a generally nice manner, they will be nice to you too.
Re your petition. There is quite enough existing legislation at the moment to cover the points on your petition as Malawi has so succinctly pointed out. Do we need to add yet another tier?
PS Taking it as read that you asked AUK if you could post a petition on the forum.
in reply to
PS Taking it as read that you asked AUK if you could post a petition on the forum.
Yes, permission has been granted to post the petition, although no-one at Asthma UK sought to approve the wording of the post - so please note that the opinions expressed in ANY post on this message board are those of the poster and not those of Asthma UK.
Additionally, because the permission didn't come from the web team, the moderators weren't informed - this is why the post was initially deleted and then reinstated.
I think not.......I don't expect the rest of the world to tie itself into knots just because I have asthma. Reasonable care is taken......if I am hypersensitive then that is my problem...not the whole worlds!
Have to agree with other posters. The issue is more than dealt with within existing legislation, cannot personally see any point or validity for this petition.
I'm afraid I have to say I find this petition somewhat silly also. Yes roadworks, especially the tarmac sets my lungs off but hey, we need the roads repaired.
Living next door to a farm ! now what's wrong with that, I live next to one, have done all my life and really quite like it, it's quiet at night, I can have the windows wide open and hear the cows munching grass in the fields, much better than a city with cars rushing past all night.
As for builders, well I work for myself and as a severe asthmatic, I like most other builders take precautions to keep dust, noise and nuisance to a minimum, after all we p*** the neighbours off, then that's potential customers. GrannyMo is right, you talk to the builders if you have problem, we want an easy life too.
If you want to complain about something, they how about the smokers who stand at the entrance to hospitals ?
Please, are we really wanting to become a blame and claim culture like the US ? What's happened to common sense ?
In October 2010 I had a new bathroom installed. I explained to the workmen that I have asthma and react to dust so they did their very best to reduce the amount of dust in the house by working with the windows open (it was freezing out, too) keeping all the doors shut and vacuuming after they'd finished. However, it wasn't enough and set my asthma off so effectively that I didn't stop coughing until the following March. I only stayed in the house for 2 days and then ran away to stay with a friend (scared her out of her wits, too because she thought I was going to fall off my perch while I was there, but that's another story!) until they'd finished and had the house thoroughly cleaned before I went home. I also purchased an air purifier which dealt very effectively with the airborn dust that remained.
The thing is, it wasn't the builders' fault, they did their best and I didn't know how very badly I would react. Lesson learnt - I'll move out BEFORE work starts in the future and, if necessary, leave my air purifier running for the entire time.
I'm all for legislation to protect us but I think a little common sense is needed too. As FeeJay says, it's not anybody else's fault that my lungs kick off and I can't reasonably expect anybody to do more than their best to reduce dust.
I cannot really support this petition. After all, I drive, I want nice flat roads with no potholes, I like my electricity and water piped to my home. I can't sue my neighbours for having trees, and tree pollen is one of my main triggers. Its too extreme, and unworkable anyway. How would you police this law, a survey would have to be done of any nearby asthma sufferers before any work was done at all. Its too costly and too complicated. Sorry.
I am really pleased for all you asthma sufferers who can cope with roadworks and having bathrooms installed.
Most people like those of you have posted here are lucky in that they can cope with these kind of disruptions, and the change in the law would not and is not designed to help you, as I have already said previously. It is designed for the acute asthma sufferers who are at risk of death if left exposed to this type of exposure to their triggers.
If you are a brittle asthma suffer with Atopy, or you have an associated respiratory disease, then you need all the help you can get.
Yes you should treat the polluter very well and point out what makes you ill and work with them to help yourself. We have now managed to get a solution for our case, in that when the next incident happens, I will be able to go to where the association has a sheltered housing area. This costs them nothing, but good will. Councils are the same. It did however, take us 2 months to get to this position and we had to move out of our home with the associated costs.
Asthma UK are working to, and as I understand are succeeding in getting the government to work towards prevention of asthma in a similar way to what we are proposing. This change of law would in most cases cost nothing. There are about 250,000 brittle asthma sufferers with Atopy which makes them hypersensitive. It is your opinion that these people don't deserve to live, and deserve to be one of the 219 people each day sent to hospital as an emergency. This is what is costing the tax payer the most.
I am really pleased for all you asthma sufferers who can cope with roadworks and having bathrooms installed.
The whole point, Sara, is that I didn't cope with the installation of my bathroom. When I said that I scared my friend to death because she thought I was going to fall off my perch that is the absolute truth and, if I'm honest, I pretty much thought the same thing, and I can guarantee that 6 months of constant coughing - and I really mean constant because once started I would cough for an hour and a half without stopping long enough to take a sip from a glass of water, have a break for maybe 20 minutes and then start again. This was no minor hissy fit and it scared the bejesus out of me until I got to the stage when I didn't care if it finished me off just as long as it did it quickly.
But I can't blame the workmen, who did their very best to keep dust to a minimum. I blame my lungs.
I'm horrified by your statement that, because I don't feel I can support your petition, I believe that people whose condition is worse than mine do not deserve to live. It is an outrageous accusation and quite unfounded. I am happy to do my bit to try to make life better for them and for everybody who has asthma, but you have to look at life realistically and I believe that I can make more difference for more people with my monthly donation supporting AUK's research than I ever would by putting my name on a petition that common sense tells me isn't going to get anywhere in the current financial climate.
in reply to
There are about 250,000 brittle asthma sufferers with Atopy which makes them hypersensitive. It is your opinion that these people don't deserve to live, and deserve to be one of the 219 people each day sent to hospital as an emergency.
Sara, this is one of the most offensive things I've ever seen written on the Asthma UK message boards. Might I suggest you take a look at this thread: asthma.org.uk/forum/?g=post... - and then you can work out how monumentally misguided your comment was.
In my experience, if you find a large group of message board members don't agree with your opinions or ideas, accusing them of wanting people to die is unlikely to get them on your side.
I hope that Sara appreciates your defence of her, although I'm sorry that you felt that you had to SHOUT to be heard. I'd have read your post even if you hadn't, as would everybody else.
You say that everyone is ""GANGING UP ON SARA"" and also ""IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE TO SAY BY ALL MEANS DO BUT IF YOU WANT TO SLAG SOMEONE OFF PLEASE DONT."" and I am sorry that you feel that way, but I think that if you take the time to look through all the previous posts the only ""slagging off"" has been in a post by Sarah who said:
It is your opinion that these people don't deserve to live
Those of us who don't feel we can support this petition all gave reasons for it, on the assumption that this was a subject for reasonable discussion. In response, Sarah felt entitled to make this hugely offensive remark about us. If you read the responses I think you will find that, even in the face of of such an insult, nobody has followed suit.
You clearly feel very strongly and have obviously had a very hard time, but you and Sarah are not alone in having problems due to work carried out in or around your home as my posts (and others) will show - please take the time to read them instead of jumping to conclusions.
Sara, I do not have time to reply fully at present.
Please reread the forum terms and conditions you agreed to on signing up here in particular to ""maintain respect for others,
Be sensitive to the thoughts and feelings of others, something that you may consider acceptable may be offensive to others.""
I refer to the use of phrases such as ""it is your opinion that these people do not deserve to live
If you are a brittle asthma suffer with Atopy, or you have an associated respiratory disease, then you need all the help you can get.]
Sarah for your information I am a brittle asthmatic with atopic sensitivity and other lung conditions ontop of this. So actually I look in the mirror every day and live with the condition, so I do not need to wake up and smell the coffee as you so eliquently put it. I will end up in hospital anyway regardless of what other works are going on outside my home because my contol is suboptimal. Where I live we have had road works being undertaken for the last couple of months and a school being demolished and rebuilt over the last year.
I am quite capable for managing to talk to who ever supervises road works on site and talking to highways or talking to site contractors informally if I need. If it becomes necessary to up the stakes and get other organisations involved I am quite capable of doing this with the current legislation. I have done so in the past when I have needed.
You state the change in law would cost nothing.
There are the costs of hosting and managing the website your petition is on.
Have you considered what the costs are involved in the time and costs for MPs to prepare draft law and hold consultations with interested parties such as professional bodies, voluntary organisations and pressure groups.
Then proposals for leglegislative changes may be contained in government White Papers. These may be preceded by consultation papers, sometimes called Green Papers, which set out government proposals that are still taking shape and seek comments from the public.
A Draft Bill is published to enable consultation and pre-legislative scrutiny before a Bill is formally introduced into either the House of Commons or House of Lords.
If the Bill becomes if approved by a majority in the House of Commons and the House of Lords, and formally agreed to by the reigning monarch. The Bill is made An Act of Parliament and becomes a law, enforced in all areas of the UK where it is applicable.
All this comes out of the money we pay in taxes. I expect there are lots of other costs involved.
Asthma UK are working to, and as I understand are succeeding in getting the government to work towards prevention of asthma in a similar way to what we are proposing.
If this is the case then why are you duplicating the work... The government are more likely to listen to a large organisation such as Asthma UK as they have more say than an individual or individuals.
In case anyone was wondering the current annual salary for an MP is £65,738. In addition, MPs receive expenses to cover the costs of running an office, employing staff, having somewhere to live in London and in their constituency, and travelling between Parliament and their constituency. I dread to think what the legal bill would be...
I do not see the point in this either, sorry but best to be honest and realistic.
Why also are you changing the story every so often? Do you have brittle asthma, this was not mentioned before?!
I find the tone of your posts somewhat confusing, condescending and odd to be honest. am not surprised the numbers are rather low still
Hey Sara.....goodness what an incredibly offensive reply you have posted. For your information - I DO have brittle asthma and carry epipens because of the hyper reactions my lungs have to a small amount of allergen.
Please do not judge the people who are replying in a reasoned manner to your post. You don't have to like the replies you get to a post but I think you'll find that many of those replying to your original post are brittle...because of needing extra support there are a very high proportion of severe, difficult, brittle asthmatics on here.
Given the thought and research that has gone into many of the replies I found your reply to be rude and inflammatory. If you post something you are not necessarily going to like all the responses, being rude to those who have replied is entirely unnecessary.
Sara, as previously stated I'm a builder with severe asthma, paint fumes from when I'm painting piss my lungs off, cement dust irritates them as does fumes from the petrol equipment, does this I should seek compensation from the paint companies, cement manufacturers and petroleum industry ? Sorry but somewhere, something is going irritate everybody and thats life. Oh and I've ended up requiring help and hospital visit from working.
Perhaps it is time to put this to bed. Anyone interested in signing the e-petition will no doubt have done so by now. Any further discussion is likely to lead to acrimonious exchange and we all, as forum members, should be beyond that.
GM
I am actually quite offended by some of Sara's comments. Most of us here are coping with a life threatening condition, and no one wants anyone not to live. We all risk our health by going into the world and being exposed to various contaminates. We cannot expect the rest of the world to stand still at our say so though. Few people will support your petition if it is not well thought out and workable. And even less will if you become offensive and rude to the people you are trying to recruit.
can this thread not be locked now? It seems to be getting out of hand with personal insults being thrown at people - we surely don't want this on our normally friendly forum
Unfortunately, because Asthma UK's chief executive has given Sara Campbell permission to post here, I can't lock the thread without permission from Asthma UK.
This is almost as good as the petition to ban perfume wearing in public a few years ago...
Clearly we're entering silly season again.
If I thought this sort of thing was workable or reasonable, I'd go for getting rid of Lush shops! I can detect them well before I see them and start hacking. Even non-asthmatic friends find the smell catches at their throats. However, much as it would be nice at times, I don't think it would be either realistic or fair to attempt shutting down a business purely on this basis.
The same goes for this petition - and where would you stop, as there must be others unusually affected by various things which can't be helped? If I suffered from migraines I might want to stop next door's builders completely, given the racket they're currently making and have been for weeks, but realistically I'd have to discuss it with the house owners having the work done and the builders themselves - you can't say no-one can have work done on their house, even though these builders aren't perhaps as considerate as they could be (they have a habit of making a huge racket at 8am on weekends which I know is legal but is not great in a residential area, and were pretty rude when I politely suggested starting a bit later on weekends at least might be a bit more considerate and avoid p***ing off everyone in the area).
in reply to
If I thought this sort of thing was workable or reasonable, I'd go for getting rid of Lush shops!
Glad you can't ban Lush shops as it makes life easy for me at Christmas, Kate loves the stuff ;P
in reply to
If I thought this sort of thing was workable or reasonable, I'd go for getting rid of Lush shops!
Glad you can't ban Lush shops as it makes life easy for me at Christmas, Kate loves the stuff ;P
Also, I use the Lush shop at our local shopping centre to help me navigate around it. When you can no longer smell it, you've reached the car park.
I love the side-tracking onto something less serious!
I too can't go anywhere near a Lush shop Philomela, at the first smell I stop still and find where it is so that I can steer well clear. It disappoints me though cos the shops look so pretty!
Me too, JF. I am particiularly taken by the idea of banning the wearing of perfume in public.
If we're looking at banning things, maybe we could get certain flowers removed from public places - I had to walk past some lilies in the supermarket yesterday and they really upset my lungs. Anyone for that?
In regards to LUSH shops, love them too so agree 100% Woody-som, am easy to buy for too.
Can't stand strong perfumes such as Poison etc and hate perfume areas of stores and airports.
Agree re the lilies Annista, hate pollen on the larger stargazer lilies
in reply to
In regards to LUSH shops, love them too so agree 100% Woody-som, am easy to buy for too.
Can't stand strong perfumes such as Poison etc and hate perfume areas of stores and airports.
Agree re the lilies Annista, hate pollen on the larger stargazer lilies
weird two severe asthmatics love the smell of Lush stuff. The stores do have a strong smell and love peaksteves use of them LOL
Hi Sara, I am writing to remind you of the terms and conditions of the forum, particularly with regards to the phrase: ""It is your opinion that these people don't deserve to live.""
This phrase breaks the first two terms and conditions of the forums: 'Keep your messages civil, tasteful and relevant' and 'Maintain respect for other people'. You can see the full terms and conditions here - asthma.org.uk/terms-and-con...
It is fantastic that you feel so strongly about your campaign and the epetition, and I understand that you want to defend your position, but please do so without making accusations about other users of the forum.
I hope that you will continue to use and contribute to the forums, but please bear in mind these rules when you do.
Regards,
Webeditor
THIS IS LIKE BEING BACK AT SCHOOL. WHY ARE YOU ALL GANGING UP ON SARA WHO IS ONLY TRYING TO MAKE THINGS BETTER?
IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE TO SAY BY ALL MEANS DO BUT IF YOU WANT TO SLAG SOMEONE OFF PLEASE DONT.
IF ASTHMA UK ARE DOING SIMILAR WHY ARE WE NOT WORKING TOGETHER WITH THIS? SARA HAS SPENT THE TIME BUILDING UP A RELATIONSHIP WITH ASTHMA UK REGARDING THE E PETITION SO WHY DONT ASTHMA UK SUGGEST THEY WORK TOGETHER FOR THE SAME GOAL?
I AM AN ASTHMA SUFFERER. LAST YEAR MY FLAT WAS COVERED IN SCAFFOLDING FOR 4 MONTHS BACK AND FRONT WHILE THE BUILDERS CLEANED AND REPAIRED THE OUTSIDE OF A WHOLE STREET OF FLATS.i ASKED FOR COVERINGS FOR MY WINDOWS AS THE SAND AND DIRT AND RUBBLE HIT OFF MY WINDOWS WHICH i COULDNT OPEN THE SAND POURED THROUGH THE WOODWORK IN THE WINDOWS EVEN SHUT. WE BREATHED IN SAND FOR FOUR MONTHS. A YEAR LATER WE STILL GET SAND. THE FACTOR WHO ORGANISED THE WORK REFUSED TO TAKE ME SERIOUSLY AND SAID IT WAS AN UNNECESSARY EXPENSE ON A VERY EXPENSIVE JOB. EVERY DAY THE LABOURERS BRUSHED DUST AND DIRT OFF THE SCAFFOLDING DOWN INTO THE GROUND. I AM ON THE GROUND FLOOR. MY ASTHMA AND ALLERGIES HAS BEEN AFFECTED BY THIS AND A YEAR LATER I STILL HAVE A SORE THROAT AND A COUGH. HOW CAN I PROVE THIS WAS THE CAUSE? I KNOW WHAT CAUSED IT - BREATHING IN DIRT AND SAND FOR FOUR MONTHS AND THE REST. I AM A HOE OWNER SO I PAY FOR THIS WORK TO BE DONE AS WELL THEY WOULD ADD EXTRA TO MY BILL TO COVER THE COSTS OF THE EXTRA EXPENSE. IT ALL CAME DOWN TO MONEY IN THE END.
I BELIEVE SARA MAY HAVE GOT A BIT ANNOYED BY THE TONE OF SOME OF YOUR RESPONSES AS I DID MYSELF WHEN I READ IT. ITS EASY TO WRITE DOWN WORDS THAT HURT PEOPLE ON FORUMS AND NOT REALISE THIS CAN BE EXTREMELY HURTFUL TO ANOTHER PERSON WHO IS ONLY ASKING FOR SUPPORT OR NOT.
Debra,
Welcome to the forum. It's a pity though, that we've got off to such a bad start, isn't it?
I assume the reason Sara posted the petition in a forum was to stimulate discussion. I also assume she felt that she would garner a lot of support for her petition, since, as you say, she is ""only trying to make something better"". Unfortunately, this isn't what has happened - you have gained a number of opinions which have not agreed with the ideology of the petition. And these opinions have come from a number of people who all have asthma, mostly of significant severity. I'm sorry you and Sara haven't had the support you expected from the public - and let me stress, this is from the public, not from Asthma UK itself; as you are well aware, Neil Churchill (AUK CEO, for anyone reading this who wasn't aware of this) has blogged his support of the e-petition. Unfortunately, when you put something like this in the public domain, it is the nature of the internet that you are going to get a number of different opinions, some of which you probably won't like.
Now, let's get to the crux of this, as you have accused forum members of ""slagging off"" Sara and imply that they are deliberately setting out to be hurtful. I have read and re-read this thread from top to bottom - no-one has personally insulted Sara; they have simply posted disagreement to the e-petition, which is not the same as personally degrading, or ""slagging off"" the poster. There was some fair reaction to her post which accused people disagreeing her of ""wanting people to die"". Sara's comment was not fair, or pleasant, and I hope you can see that with hindsight, it may not have been the best choice of words.
As Annista said, you, Sara and several others have had a hard time with this issue, and I don't think anyone one here harbours ill-will to your campaign; rather, they simply don't feel that they can support it. But, also consider, that many people may have read this thread and gone ahead and signed the e-petition without necessarily posting on the thread.
Kind Regards,
Dr Cath
(Moderator)
I will just add that in regards to the prior mentions of posting personal attacks or 'slagging off', this is specifically covered by forum terms and conditions asthma.org.uk/terms-and-con... . Everyone in signing up has agreed to all of these including ""not to: 'Flame' or attack people individually."" The warning and suspension system applies to any such post if they occur.
Dear Moderator DrCath,
I would be obliged if you would read all the posts, including the ones deleted.
Fir example,the one aimed at me saying that if brains ware taxed then I would need a rebate. One of the original responses.
This was the start.
Asthma UK's stance is to try to get government to support prevention of asthma, and that is what the e petition is all about.
I would have expected the moderator to sort this person out, but no it was left for all to see for days. Moderator Steve ignored it and just said that my original post was deleted as the moderator was not aware that the original post had been aproved by Asthma UK.
Sara, oh dear what a misunderstanding, that was a signature line of a forum member and *not* a personal insult! There is a separate thread on this in off-topic see here asthma.org.uk/forum/?g=post...
As moderators we can see and have read all deleted posts in this case.
TJ
( moderator)
I think I have established that the software doesn't agree with my mobile phone (post eaten).....
Have the same problem and seems to be when signal/network drops esp in current rather inclement weather
Ooooh, OK so it's working now.
Sara, as TJ says the new forum software allows us to see all deleted posts, if there have been any. Your original post was temporarily taken down whilst we awaited Asthma UK's confirmation that permission had been granted. Once we received this, your post was re-instated.
As TJ also says, the comment you refer to was a user's signature and was in no way a personal insult. the reason you can't see it now is because that user has changed their signature. This is why no action has been taken.
Dr Cath
(Moderator)
MP's are paid £65,000+ per annum and some are paid considerably more.
It would be a lot better if they spent their time working for us. They get paid their wage no matter.
Your argument is like employing a road sweeper and not providing a broom, as it may wear out!
Dear Sara, I'm sorry if my original signature offended you. If you check my thread on signatures, you will see that my explanation for having it, was posted some 29 days ago. Your e-petition was posted 14 days ago. I did realise fairly quickly on replying to another forum members thread that it could be taken out of context and look extremely rude and that is partly why I changed it. Those who know me from other forums will know that I change my signature regularly and that sometimes it coincides with a topic however not meant.
Although I dont whole heartedly support your e-petition, I wish you well.
Ps the chap I was thinking of for that first signature, turned out to be an absolute brick when I returned from hospital last Monday with both feet bandaged and in great pain. Driving past, immediately stopped and came to offer assistance as I hobbled from car to house. He may be a wee chap of 5ft 2 but so strongly did he hold me that I had no hesitation on leaning on him. When I see him next and a wee bit more steady on my pins, I'm going to give him a great big bear hug for stopping and helping out.
Dear Moderator,
GrannyMo has admitted using a signoff line to use as an insult to others in the last paragraph of the post. This was no accident, and was done to insult people knowing you would take no action.
Please deal with appropriately.
in reply to
Dear Moderator,
GrannyMo has admitted using a signoff line to use as an insult to others in the last paragraph of the post. This was no accident, and was done to insult people knowing you would take no action.
Please deal with appropriately.
GrannyMo doesn't say she did it purposefully, but it could be misconstrued as being aimed at the OP. I've known GM since she started on these forum and via other methods and she would come out and say if she had a problem with something rather than hide behind a signature line.
in reply to
Dear Moderator,
GrannyMo has admitted using a signoff line to use as an insult to others in the last paragraph of the post. This was no accident, and was done to insult people knowing you would take no action.
Please deal with appropriately.
Arygll, that is not at all correct. She has acknowledged that she used a quote from another forum as an ""amusing"" signature line, but quickly realised that, in use, it could unintentiionally cause offence to others, if it were to be taken out of context. She has therefore apologised for any unintentional offence she may have caused. To imply that she has done this deliberately is simply wrong; and to imply that the moderating team would take no action if it had been deliberate, is a slur on the integrity of the team. We uphold the terms and conditions as applying to all users, and no-one is exempt.
No further action will be taken on this issue. If this thread continues to degenerate into tit-for-tat, I will lock it.
Incidentally, if any poster has problems with a post which has been made on the boards, it is far better to use the ""Report post"" button, rather than airing grievances in public on the message boards.
Whilst all this debate is ongoing my wife is laying in itu fighting for her life again with her asthma...
this all seems so petty, and if all people have to worry about is a signature on the bottom of a post or debating an issue to the enth degree in a democratic world where EVERYONE is entitled to their OWN opinion and its never going to suit or agree with everyone then good for you!
Because right now I for one, and I'm damn sure my wife would swap places with you all, maybe people should realise sometimes that there are a lot of folk worse off than themselves and put is well and truly to bed !!
Alex
At least Granny Mo had the decency to appologise for her actions. This action to date has been sadly lacking from other forum members on this thread that have caused offence.
Reading this thread...mouth agape....trying to remember why I decided to come back to the forum...
Thank you very much moderating team who are doing their best on this.
in reply to
Reading this thread...mouth agape....trying to remember why I decided to come back to the forum...
Thank you very much moderating team who are doing their best on this.
Agree with FeeJay here, I've not been on the forums for a while and thought would have another look, now in it's new style but I wonder why too. Can we lock this thread now.....
I honestly don't see anything positive coming out of this thread any more.
My suggestion would be to leave the original post about the petition on the forums, but lock it so that this cannot repeat itself - the original issue has been totally lost now in all the unpleasantness. I would also be inclined to delete the replies: as this is an issue that Asthma UK are supporting, I feel it reflects badly on them that this thread and petition has degenerated like this.
I really hope we can move past this quickly, and the (largely) friendly tone of the forums returns.
Alex - I really hope Snowy gets better soon. Thinking of you x
Alex, I'm so sorry to hear that snowy is in itu, I hope she recovers quickly.
Thinking of you all, x
Thanx Angelica & Piglet
Since writing that, she has been successfully extubated and now off the ventilator and on bipap till she can cope on her own and the sedation wears off, but doing good all things considered
I agree with Piglet that this thread is just going round in circles.
I'm all for honest debate but it seems that this isn't going to happen. Speaking for myself only, I would have been prepared to consider sensible reasons for changing my mind about the petition, but these were not forthcoming. Even taking into account the good intentions of the 'pro' lobby (I don't want to use names and run the risk of causing further unintended offence), and their genuine wish to help people I couldn't help feeling that there was so much emotion involved that reasoned arguement was never going to get a chance. Please don't get me wrong, I don't think that investing a lot of passion and emotion into a cause is at all a bad thing but unless it goes hand in hand with common sense and reasonable discussion it will never be enough to get me to reconsider my position.
GrannyMo apologised for any unintended offence caused by her signature line, which would have been the perfect time for everyone to calm down and either have a civilised discussion or just leave the whole thing to die out naturally.
I find it very sad that this hasn't happened, not only for the effect this bad mannered thread may have on forum users but also because of the inevitable negativity it has generated towards the petition and I would urge the 'pro' lobby to be as gracious as GrannyMo, make their own apologies and try to retrieve some credibility for the petition that quite obviously means so much to them.
well I'm a brittle asthmatic and everything in life seems to trigger my asthma off.Who do I sue,God? my parents for faulty manufacturing? Sometimes you just got to say, it is as it is and move on.Life is short so enjoy it to the full.Some days thats easier than others but by god I'm gonna try.
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