DNR and refuses to go into hospital- what to we do if collapses? Call ambulance?
Hi all parent has COPD and pneumonia, had 12 days in hospital which was shockingly bad from start to finish!! Parent refusing to go into hospital now and has DNR in place also! I understand but what do we do if they collapse- do we call for help?? Or just make them as comfortable as we can? Who can we ask for clarification?
thanks
As Don said, call for help. A DNR doesn't mean that any possible treatment is excluded.
maybe call the ALUK helpline team ….number is above .
Would your parent ‘s health professional be available to ask .
It could help put your mind at rest .
Best wishes , I remember when my mother refused to go to hospital .
Morning Robinface 😊 Dad is nearly 97. He has severe bouts of biliary sepsis requiring IV antibiotics/oxygen. He usually goes into hospital for 24 hours and then is cared for at home.My brother and I have an advanced directive (living will) regards care and well being of dad. No-one removes him from the house unless either one of us gives permission.
The DNAR does what it says, no resuscitation if dad dies at home and his life has expired.
Dad still has a sound brain although like all of us sometimes forgetful. 🤔
If he requires treatment and this would be viable I would certainly ring 999.
Hope this helps. Kind regards. Dawn.xx
What does your parent want you to do should this happen? Would they rather just be made comfortable at home, taken to hospital for care but still no dnr? Your local Hospice may be able to help with discussions you need to have.
thank you, will try and have that discussion with them!
Good luck!
My husband has a DNR and I’m caring for him at home . I’ve been assured that he can be looked after at home just as well as in hospital , he’s under a palliative care team which comprises of district nurses , a palliative care key worker , the Gp and anyone else ie physio etc he might need . You really need to talk to your parents GP about getting a care package in place if they choose to stay at home . This works well for us and my husband is far happier and more comfortable than he would be in hospital District nurses are on call 24/7 However if my husband was suddenly in severe pain or I couldn’t improve his breathing to a reasonable level even with all the medication I have on hand I would ( as a last resort ) send for an ambulance . Personally I feel with the right measures in place people are better cared for at home than in hospital these days . Hope this helps 😊
hello thank you for your reply, as far as we know no terminal diagnosis only a refusal if poorly again no hospital and no CPR! We will speak to community nurse and hopefully get some clarification! Great to hear care at home can work so will bear your words in mind, thank you so much!
My husband is stage 4 emphysema, diagnosed COPD. 18 years ago ,The GP asked where he would prefer to be cared for when the time comes ( although we’re not quite there yet 🤞) hospital, hospice or home and he elected to stay at home . The Gp said he agreed it was best place and said we would have plenty support - which we have . I was a bit daunted at first , it can be quite scary in the beginning but I’m so glad we choose this option , it’s peace of mind knowing he is comfortable in his own home 😊. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions I could help with going forward.
My Dad elected to stay at home in his final illness after being rushed to hospital several times by paramedics and subsequently discharging himself. It was an amazing two years and he died at home with the whole family there. From mom to his newest great grandchild. Not in a morbid, Victorian death bed scene, but in a beautiful, gentle , quiet, tea drinking, gentle hum of reminiscences, hand holding way.
sounds ideal Karenanne61, glad you have such a lovely memory of his final days! X
It was, naturally, hearbreaking , but I feel so privileged to have been with him, holding hus hand. We find comfort that he was as surrounded by love as we were by his love.
Yes , it can be hard work but for me not as exhausting as travelling backwards and forward to impersonal hospitals just to find your loved one upset , uncomfortable or just desperate to get home . Geoff has his own room with all the home comforts and I’m just next door ( so I do get me time ) but I’m just a buzzer away if he needs anything . Family visit any time they like , enjoy a brew or a meal whilst they’re here and spend as much time as they like telling Geoff their plans for the future and still seeking his advice 😊hopefully we’ll have the beautiful end to the story when the time comes that you and your family had 🙏😊
We were so lucky to be able to pop in anytime for advise and company. He remained our family's alpha male!
Thank you for your kind offer, am so glad you have it sorted and yes it is scary! We are just floundering a bit at present but i know that will change when we have more information! Thank you
hi,what is their diagnosis..
I’ve got a DNR.
It says if My heart stops I don’t want to be have CPR,If I get I’ll I want to be treated appropriately.
DNRis not a death sentence,it’s a statement of how you want to be treated.
I’ve got Interstitial lung disease,rheumatoid athritis and auto immune conditions.
My GPsaid that with the state of my lungs cpr probably wouldn’t work xx
Hi COPD, aortic aneurysm, arthritis and god knows what else as refusing tests!! I understand why but we just not sure what to do if very poorly again! Will ask for advice from district nurse who they are now under when they visit friday! Thank you for your response, vety kind of you x
I can fully understand why your parent is resistant to hospital treatment.
I’ve had 2 hospital admissions to hospital in the past three months.the first was 2 days and was frankly an ordeal.
The 2 nd admission was for a week and was really good.
I was able to relax and rest the care was good.
The manager was excellent,she managed the ward in an effective way.
The food on the second admission was excellent,I ordered mostly vegetarian,it was good.
Can you ask the district nurse if any support is available for parent to te cared for at home.
Take care x
If your Dad has COPD he should have a Respiratory team calling.
Hi garshe - just was your comment - re DNR and Health visitor - I think it is just a lottery.
At 86 years old with COPD and a DNR and a number of emergency hospitalisations recently - apart from a visit to a consultant at hospital to supply me with an NIV machine - my local surgery do not seem interested.
My consultant wrote to my GP requesting they supply me with a 24 hour blood pressure machine - this was months ago now - but each time I enquired I was given answers i.e.;
The machine is out...
The machine is broken...
They don't know where it is...
Finally I was told - that ... "if it was so important - ask the consultant to provide one" Which I did - but after some three weeks now - I have not heard another word.
Perhaps they calculate that a heart attack is my likely outcome ... so why bother... DNR will see to the problem.
I therefore suggest you push your GP for a satisfactory answer to your concern - it is rediculous and inhuman that they should leave these matters to patients...without even any medication to ease my passing - and just leaving matters to our careers.
Perhaps paramedics are qualified to prescribe necessary medication - however, I was told by a nurse that is not so.
I hope and pray your parent and yourself are saved the trauma of being your own GP - but that seems the order of the day - these days.
My parents are both passed. I was replying to Robinface. I know nothing about DNR but if his Dad is suffering after pneumonia and has COPD he should have a Respiratory team calling. They call daily to patients who require help. The district nurse calling once a week doesnt do anything. He needs a specialist team like a Respiratory team or the Acute nursing team who are the best in their profession.. Thankfully I am doing ok at the moment, but always have the support of my Respiratory team when and if needed. Sometimes its just a chat on the phone for advice
. A great comfort ,and everyone should be able to access this service ., they are qualified to prescribe medication also they dropped off a new Nebuliser for me as mine had broken , and I only use it occasionally when I have an exacerbation. .xxSheila 👍
hello Sheila, we requested the respiratory nurse but GP said no! go back to hospital as she considered it an unsafe discharge and said it was hospitals responsibility!! I was not allowing parent to be a pawn in that battle!parent refused to go near hospital after such an awful time! Parent was discharged medically fit with oxygen and care- oxygen people refused and care not yet started!! After long telephone call with Gp respiratory nurse came next day! 🤞🏻 things improve soon x thank you for your lovely response
I think it may be different in different areas Sheila , we have district nurses coming in as and when we need them , currently three times per week ( although this is mainly because of swelling in his legs) normally they come once per fortnight but they’re always my first point of contact if not the GP. The respiratory team only come once every six months to do blood tests etc but they are available for advice by phone anytime Glad you’re doing ok👍😊 xx
Yes I am fortunate as I have a fantastic Respiratory team who will call every day if required. At present dont require them but they still phone to check I'm ok ,and as you say can phone them anytime Mon to Fri 8 .30a m to 4 30pm Also have an Acute team who are a specialised highly qualified team. They do scans, blood tests .intravenous antibiotics .everything in fact. Even the Consultant visits at home. They get results through within an hour .brilliant.
xxSheila 💕⚘
We dont have that service here where I live, my poor neighbour when he was left gasping for breath was told to dial 999 and wouldnt send anybody out for him, he ended up in and out of hospital so many times with ambulances turning up on a weekly basis. Its a shame the UK doesnt have the same system it would make things much better x
From what I've read here I think we are all subject to the vageries of the postcode lottery when it come to health care. Some of our friends here seem to be totally abandoned by their local 'care' services.
Yes it certainly seems like that and I really sympathise with them. Life is just not fair sometimes is it ??? xxSheila 💕⚘
No it certainly is not. Especially when we see such differences in a 'national' health service. But, its a vast improvement in many ways from pre nhs. My auntie suffered from asthma and if a doctor was called my Dad had to run to neighbours to borrow the necessary payment!
I cant complain here where I live. Although it's more me being persistent and finding out how to access these nurses. My husband had a skin cancer removed from forehead and top of head about 6weeks ago and skin graft also.
Hospital discharged him but said they would keep him on file for 12months. Any problems to contact him.there is a tiny little mark which still waiting to fully heal .so needed to contact consultant
The tel no on letter was unobtainable so I tracked down his PR . Telephoned her and she asked me to send a photo. Via e.mail.
I did this only yesterday and she has shown it to Consultant already. Had e mail with appointment in his next clinic which is on Monday. Within hours . It's just being precautionary and hopefully all will be ok. But have to find right contacts as if you go through GP takes weeks even months. I got it sorted in hours.
xxSheila 💕⚘
That's so true that we have to track these things down for ourselves. I'm glad you've got that appointment for your husband. It can be exhausting though doing all the chasing and admin. I thought I'd left that behind when I left work!
It's a full time Job lol. I seem to be on the phone constantly or e.mailing . I also ring all the companies. Sky ,
My insurance companies etc in fact everyone that increases my charges every year.
end up getting my payment back to previous year price even had it reduced with some. Really annoys me when price is increased and,I havent even made a claim .Sky were charging me for Netflix which I dont have with them. I pay subscription direct to Netflix. Had that refunded . How dare they 🙈🙈
I am like a dog with a bone lol must be bored. Lol xxSheila 👍
I can just imagine your tenacity! 🙂
that’s a laugh ... come to see meeee...🥵
Great comments -cant add to what's already been posted.Thinking of you and your family please let us know how you get on and if you have found the advice that's right for you and your family x
Hi there…. I would call your parents GP and ask for some advice. I don’t know if paramedics have access to written DNR orders, and if not will they commence CPR in the absence of one. Best wishes to you all x
The DNR should be kept with the patients notes at home if that’s where they’re being cared for . If medics are called it can then be given to them
we have the DNR here- a purple form, told it goes where parent goes!
Yes that’s right Robinface , Geoffs is in with his notes that the district nurse updates after every visit , presumably if medics are called and decided he really needed to be hospitalised the whole folder would go with him
I don't have a DNR but the corresponding paperwork that details health issues, meds etc is kept in a tube in the fridge. This was supplied by our local Lions Club.
Hi I wasn't aware they still did this! Great to know, thank you!
Oh I didn’t realise… good to know that x
Hii good morning i am a 58 years old male seperated from my mrs 15 years ago yes i hav e copd tracky in kneck yes i have to go into hospital as a out paintnece i dont like the place now wthey are trying to catch up with my health problems due to lockdown having now help it was a struggle but when i go the with a app iontment i have stated to have panic attacts they stared to calm me down so i can understand you want to help mum / & dad i think its up to them i dont want to stay in them places sorry this is the way i feel all the best ghoust rider
Thank you I completely understand why they do not want to go into hospital and back them in this decision- we are just unclear what that means in day to day terms, hopefully clarified when community nurse visits! 🤞🏻
Best wishes to all of you. xxx
My Mum had a dnr form, it just meant do not resuscitate if she had a heart attack or stroke. We took this with us everywhere. It didnt stop me ringing an ambulance if she needed it and i took care of her in her own home so that she didnt need to go into hospital. I still called the doctor or district nurse if she needed help with something. Dont be afraid to ask for help, your parent doesnt need to go into hospital if they dont want to x
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Call for help he could be in pain which could be relieved.