What were the early warning signs of PP? - Action on Postpar...
What were the early warning signs of PP?
This is a question I find really interesting, as for the majority of women I have spoken too. About 10 in total for the majority of women the first warnings signs were a lack of sleep. I feel their are two sides of the coin, some of the ladies say that because they couldn't sleep this triggered the downward spiral of PP. Or the reason they couldn't sleep is because they were developing the early signs of PP. I feel it is the latter. What are peoples views on this?
Hi Louloubexs, this is a great question and there are many signs I think to the onset of PP, some will definitely overlap in most people's experiences like the inability to sleep.
I have answered in more detail in the poll on sleep, but I will say here that my complete insomnia lasting over 5 days (stopping only because I was finally admitted at that point) was the clearest warning sign of PP. I think the sleep deprivation I experienced the night before and during the long labour were, along with the huge hormonal shifts, probably the trigger for my PP. But the insomnia afterwards, complete lack of ability to fall asleep or doze, was because I was in the early stages or the prodrome of the psychosis. Yet I can't help wondering sometimes whether a sleeping tablet right after giving birth whilst my son was sleeping off the pethidine may have helped stave off the illness. It's hard to know. Sleep deprivation and psychosis share very similar symptoms.
My answer to this is that all i know is i could not sleep although i really, really wanted to . so i would say that it is the first signs of pp. I am using lavener oil on my pillow and clothes etc this time and its really helping me .(please note that i have not had a baby this time but just an operation) If i had known how good lavender makes me feel 16 years ago when it first happened to me i think that as long as i had someone that i could trust to look after my baby for me to catch up on my lost sleep, i could have overcome it! My lovey neighbour Julie looked after my baby for a few hours one day just so i could sleep and as she loves children i knew he would be taken good care of . I went back into my house after giving him to her and what did i do when i got back in?? Did the blinking housework as i wa so hyper from my illness !!! As i had no help with that etc except when my sisters used to come and help me after doing long hours at their work! If i had,had help to do all this i feel now that i could have concentrated on just lookig after baby and my older son and myself ! I was so mentally fatiqued in the end trying to juggle everything as my partner worked such long hours as he was self employed that i feel that he couldnt help me in the way i needed too as he was then our bread winner as i couldnt work! Hope this helps in some way for anyone reading it! But if we could have had a person to come and help me a few hours a day i think i wouldve relaxed more! I was ill for 10 months and feel now that i lost out, but thank God i have a lovely relationship with both my boys! I would have loved to have had another baby but was too frightened as PP my return! Anywayi have to go to work now so Kind reagards Lavender123 x
Hi Lavender123, I too love the calming properties of lavender oil and used to own a tisserand roller ball with lavender, it was wonderful. I have a great lavender shampoo too which i find calming. I hope your recovery from your operation is going well.
Unlike your experience, I was given plenty of opportunity after the first day to sleep by my family after my son was born, mainly because I was in so much pain physically they knew I needed support. Yet despite the hours I was believed to be sleeping, I could not fall asleep even whilst laying in bed. I don't think anyone believed me when I'd come downstairs and say I hadn't actually slept. Seeing how exhausted I was I guess they figured my body MUST have switched off even if I felt I hadn't had rest. If only that was the case. It was only towards the very end when the bizarre symptoms set in that they believed me about not sleeping I think.
Gosh! Where do I begin! I can relate to the lack of sleep or the need for litle sleep. I'd say the racing thoughts that went with it, the indeciciveness and the fact that things just didn't make sense. Umm, I am curious, with both my experiences of PP there was a distinct memory of like a "crackle" sound and then a bizarre feeling before diving into the more severe end of psychosis. Anyone experience that sort of thing?
Hi Kaiti, I had the racing thoughts too - my mind would never stop. I could barely remember anything either and would take excessive notes about everything. I understand from midwives that they see a lot of first time mums make many notes about their baby but this isn't what I was doing (in fact my husband was doing that i.e. noting feeds and nappies etc.), My notes were all about the things people kept telling me and I had 3 different notebooks that I could never decide which one to write in (I had the indecisiveness too).
You mention the "crackle" sound which made me take note because I had something similar. At the point literally just before I became lost in the bizarre delusions, i.e. the psychosis had set in, I felt and heard a switch "flick" in my head. And then later in the hosiptal during the two weeks of florid psychosis I had another point where I heard and felt a "pop" inside my head and the delusions seems to go up another level. It was so frightening.
I noticed that the lady called Jo in the Tonight Programme's PP documentary (21st Aug) used the exact phrase I use to describe my experience - "a switch flicked in my head". It is encouraging to know that these strange things are all part of an illness and that we do and can recover fully from them. Still the memories are not easy to live with I find. Hence why I feel passionate about helping raise awareness and to help with any research undertaken.
Hi there HopeafterPP,
Thinking about is again, yes I agree with you, it was like the flick of a switch. Happened to me on both occassions. Such an eerie memory. The first time I have to think on, but the second was very vivid. My now 4 year old daughter was around 6 months old. I had been happily breastfeeding her when it came time to start her on solids. I was trying to figure out how to do it. Different people were telling me different things. One was telling me that no don't feed her too much solids as her stomach was really tiny, and others were saying you gotto give her like a whole cup etc. It really did my head in literally. To the point I was worried she was not getting enouhg food, so I kept breastfeeding her for longer and longer unsure of when she was full. I'd give her just a couple of teaspoons of pureed pear for fear it was too much. Then I'd worry that my milk was not enough as I hadn't been drinking many fluids or that the quality was that of the starving African women and I started to belive that the quality was that poor that I was breastfeeding her water instead of milk! My most vivid and most horrifying experience before being admitted was that I had been breastfeeding her, who knows for how long...then I picked her up, cradled her in my arms and went to put her in her cot and her body flopped down on the mattress...dead. I remember feeling her forehead, and it was icy cold. I walked away believing I had killed her, for it was what I saw. I went back to the room and checked on her some time later to find her skin warm, breath soft and completely alive and well. I had been hallucinating! The memories so vivid, still haunting me to this very day. I was hospitalised within a day for PP. I had to stop breastfeeding immediately and my baby was to be looked after by my mother at home as the policy changed at the psychiatric ward and I could not have my baby there with me. A most excruciating experience I wouldn't wish upon anyone.
I too would like to help raise awareness and help with any research. Now having my daughter, I fear...God forbid, what if she were to suffer from PP like me??
You just reminded me Kaiti i also had that feeling in my head and couldnt decide on anything . But thankfully we did and do recover. Its nice as i remember my CPN that came to my house to talk with me saying you wll get better. You dont think your gongto get better at the time,but its lovely when we finally feel well! My Mums friend wroteto me when i wa unwell and she said tha when she had it after the birth of her 2nd child that she felt like her but with bells on! I can identify with that now. But its lovely whn you do and will get better! Kind regards Lavender123.
x
Here is a list of the early warning signs for me, with the main two at the top:
** complete insomnia **
** rapid mood swings ** (going between feeling high, on top of the world almost, to being in the depths of despair)
* racing thoughts
* thoughts of harming the baby
* not feeling like myself & my family noticing that I wasn't normal
* constantly talking
* making grandiose plans to write books about being a new mum and baby care!
* an increased sense of smell (I had flowers removed from the house because the smell was overpowering)
*complete lack of appetite (I would not have eaten unless someone made me because I did not feel hungry or have hunger pains)
* lack of taste (when I did eat everything tasted of cardboard)
* dry mouth and constant thirst
* an underlying and increasing sense of fear (almost terror) that became prevalent at night when I was left alone
* bizarre thoughts and beliefs like my mind was going to split in two, or believing my husband had postnatal depression and would harm our baby
* a feeling of detachment from my baby even just after he was born, despite at some point feeling "in-love" with him (although that feeling didn't hang around)
* feeling suicidal and coming up with a plan
* being unusually open (this uncharacteristic symptom is probably what saved my life since otherwise normally I'd have hid such personal things as feeling suicidal)
* being irrational - not allowing the flash to be used to take photos of my son only hours old incase the flash hurt his eyes (I couldn't bear watching him scrunch his little face up when the camera flashed), having an irrational fear of being left along with my new baby from the moment he was born. This fear took months to ease up and probably didn't leave entirely till my son was over 1 years old.
I expect there are other early warning signs I had and if I think of any more I will add them to the list in order to help anyone else who may be feeling the same or have a family member experiencing these things.
Hi ladies, I agree the lack of sleep/or not having the need to sleep both triggered the early warning signs for me. It started where I couldn't switch of at night, then around day 5 the racing thoughts would begin. My mind was racing and at times I feel like I was in a deep meditative state but wide away did anybody else have this?
HopeafterPP, My symptoms were very alike to yours, apart from I couldn't stop eating and forgot I had eaten, and just ate all the time.
I however bonded with my son straight away as I thought he was a little angel. I never had any attachment problems ( very lucky I know). I also never had any thought of suicide or self harm.
Mine was more grandiose thinking I was some sort of celebrity and I was in a game, making plans the endless writing of lists.
One of the hardest things looking back was the openness, as I am normally a very private person and some of the things I did or said makes me cringe.
I am in the process of writing my story of recovery, which will make you cry and laugh out loud. In only a way that other survivors of PP will understand
xx
Just another thought I was told if you are going to get full blown PP generally sleeping tablets will not work alone.
My experience started initially as pnd and that I could not cope in my new role as a mother. Lack of sleep, florid and disinhibited behaviour. Scribbling down numbers, thoughts and ideas. Feeling the tv was communicating with me and that I was a celebrity. By the time I went to hospital I was talking about Tony Blair being prime minister and dates of birth of my family. I did not care for myself and walked around soiled on the psych ward. By now I was setting out food and drink on my table to represent countries in the UN and NATO as I was going to bring world peace. I never had thoughts of harm to myself or my daughter but an anxiety about leaving her to return to work. I had no idea of how my husband would cope so I took on all anxieties including financial worries as I was the sole bread winner and had to go back to work. I remember situations quite vividly and the descent into psychosis being very rapid. I took the medication but feared it because of mental health issues in my family. I didn't eat but then at others times had to eat halal and non halal curry and everthing else for world peace! Everything was opposites and feeling lost amongst everything i had learnt as a child and as a lawyer, which is what I am as a professional. Also my family's immigrant background and the racism I experienced as a child featured. So altogether alot of disordered thoughts in a mind that is usually very ordered! Another trigger had been stopping breast feeding in order to return to work as well as separation anxiety. All together a frightening experience which I still carry with me and think about every day of my life. How, why did it have to be me? Now I know more so much of my history pointed to it. A mother and sister with schizophrenia was highlighted at ante natal appointments but the significance missed by midwives. My age, 39, first time mum even my job were all possible indicators. I think Jill's comment on the Newsnight programme on 21 August that so many women go through this without any signs being picked up was important. Six years down the line and speaking to my CPN only today who said there is a lack of cross over between general medicine and psych medicine which stops cases being picked up, education about the condition and sadly to more women going through this. Its effect is that my daughter is an only child to a mother who wanted more but is to frightened to go through pregnancy and child birth again as well as a constant worry that please please don't let it ever happen to her.
Having no previous history of mental illness and not being aware that PPP existed, I was completely caught off guard when PPP struck. Although the primary trigger for me was sleep deprivation and the inability to sleep for days, in looking back and knowing what I know now about PPP, I had other early symptoms. My insomnia began as a result of an increase in anxiety and concern for my baby, when I had no reason for it, after he began sleeping through the night. I was such a happy, content mom for the first 6 weeks. It was after my mom returned to her home in another state and I was on my own during the night (since my husband worked nights) that I began feeling more vulnerable and fears that were not present before 6 weeks postpartum began to set in. My journey to recovery was long and difficult but I am so thankful that I survived so I can now do my best to help others. Thank you APP Network for increasing awareness of PPP and helping to increase support.
:-). Hi everyone, this is such an interesting & important thread! Keep it coming! x
Not being able to sleep was definitely one of the signs for me, and should have shown up something was wrong straight away as I love my sleep and could normally sleep anywhere anytime. However my family and friends put my slightly odd behaviour down to new parent sleep deprivation. When my husband and son were fast asleep and I could have been sleeping too, i was either trying to bake bread, cleaning or leaving very rambling messages on Facebook. I initially thought I didn't want to sleep because I had a very bad experience with breast feeding and was bullied by a midwife, this made me have very bad dreams, but actually I think looking back this was the PP starting. I think the point my husband realised there was something seriously wrong was the night I stood shaving my legs in the bathroom at 2am talking to my dead grandmother. Also going to Tesco at 4am dressed in jogging bottoms and my pyjama top and spending over £180 on mainly cleaning products should have probably rung alarm bells!
LouLoubex our stories are very similar and I cringe at how open I was telling people details I would never say in a million years, it was as though I lost the brain to mouth filter and if I thought it I said it out loud including telling one of the crisis team that I could see her knickers and would she please mind crossing her legs because my Mom says it is rude to show your knickers! When I was first admitted to the general psychiatric ward I thought that I was part of a magic circle and I had won the lottery and was part of a tv show and the other patients were extras. I was almost beaten up in there by another patient for my non stop talking and the fact I kept going into their rooms and stealing clothes and knickknacks, they even found me wearing one of the other patients shoes that were two sizes too small. I didn't sleep for more than a few hours at a time while I was in there and would roam the wards. The staff didn't have experience of PP and I remember being shouted at that I had to go to sleep. Of my whole PP journey that week in the general psych ward was the very worst of my whole life.
Hi everyone, I stumbled across this 'Early postpartum symptoms in puerperal
psychosis' paper which I think is excellent & really detailed! I think the Table 1 on page 4 listing the early symptoms & frequency of reporting is particularly useful to us all!
***'Early Postpartum Symptoms in Puerperal Psychosis' paper***
Andrea, thanks for posting that report, it was really interesting.
The last two reports of the Con?dential 'Enquiry into Maternal Deaths ?nd that deaths due to psychiatric illness and suicide account for the highest proportion of deaths in women in the year following childbirth.
Puerperal psychosis (PP) is the most severe form of postnatal psychiatric illness and women are around 22 times more likely to experience the onset of a manic or psychotic episode in the
?rst postpartum month than at any other time in life.'
Isn't it unbelievable considering the stats that it is never spoke about, during antenatal, delivery, and postpartum period. It shows there is a great need for perinatal teams to be based or affiliated to all hospitals. The pathway of care really needs to be reviewed.
I am really hoping over the coming years things will change even more. xx
The sleep thing for me too. I don't think I ever really slept for days, not eating either.
It also started with a traumatic birth, including transfer between hospitals in a blue-light ambulance 20-odd miles ending with an emergency caesarean. This was the Friday lunchtime and I was sent home on Sunday morning, really overwhelmed and again not having slept in hospital. I had problems breast-feeding and became paranoid and terrified of failing at the whole thing. I spent 24 hours in a maternity ward so the staff could monitor feeding and I remember asking them exactly what I needed to take as I just couldn't think due to all the jumbled thoughts, and then when I got there they asked for the red book which I hadn't got - so I screamed at them that it hadn't been on the very specific list I had asked for. Just really over the top behaviour.
I am normally a smart and presentable person and turned into a bag woman; a vivid memory is going to my GP for about the 3rd time early days (I had a great community midwife who spotted the signs and made sure I was referred on), and when I got there I unloaded all my baby bag onto his desk and started rambling to him. I had some hallucinations/ delusions but nothing that really sticks out except that when a light-bulb popped in a bedside lamp, I was convinced that I had made it do that.
When in hospital, people on the TV were talking to me and about me, especially programmes like Casualty. I also would panic about things like temperature, whether my baby had enough clothes on; it was winter and I remember whilst on the M&B unit and the staff were trying to build my confidence by going for walks to town, I made them go back to the unit as I thought I needed an extra hat for my baby (of course, they would never have let me go out without adequate clothes etc).
I know some of this is new Mum stuff but the overwhelming panic and irrational fears was out of control. I am normally a very organised person, so although I went into overdrive with the lists, cutting up pain relief medication so I didn't take too many etc, the warning signs were all there that this was pure mania which did develop into a severe psychosis.
I am lucky in that I never had really negative thoughts about harming myself or my baby, but I remember being asked this very particular question several times a day whilst in hospital, so I know it's common. Now nearly 3 years down the line, I am back to "normal" (whatever that is!) but it took me a long time and my confidence took a massive knock. I will get round to writing my story on here at some point, but am really keen to help others in whatever way I can. PP is such an awful and little understood illness.
I can really identify with you both, Hel212000 and Louloubexs. The first symptoms were exuberance (which was to be expected after the relief of a safe birth) and then exaggerated activity. Lots of list making, fantastic ideas (some practical; others completely loopy), believing that I was super capable. The insomnia didn't seem to be that much of an indicator; I just didn't go back to bed after the 4.30am/5am feed. I was also obsessed with sorting things out (anything; people's problems, the house ...). As my heightened mood accelerated into mania, I spent a lot of money, buying presents for people. I experienced colours with such intensity. It was as if all my senses were reprogrammed to hyperalert.
At no time did I have any fears for my baby. My main aim was to make everything perfect. Even if that included solving worldwide famine. I feel overwhelmed trying to list all the symptoms, but may carry on with this thread some other time.
I was already experiencing the onset of mild mania when I was discharged by the midwifery team (after 10 days). It was 3 weeks after the birth that events happened to force a diagnosis.
THEN the sleep problems began (once I eventually got to the MBU!).
You guys are describing me to a T right now.
Hi all, I know this is an old thread now but I thought I'd add this link for any new members that come along. We've just published a new page on the APP website about the Early symptoms of Postpartum Psychosis which includes a really useful table listing them in the order they were reported.
Wow this post was really reassuring. It’s a good reminder of symptoms to watch out for. I felt exuberant, was cleaning the house like a mad woman, trying to make everything perfect. I was so happy! My mind was racing, I started to worry about ghosts and think I was psychic and could predict things and see the future, the oversharing, and need to write a lot ad talk a lot was very present. Thanks everyone for sharing, so many brave and inspiring women in these forums. X
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