Has anyone thought of sueing the NHS for negligence leading to PPP or actually instigated legal proceedings?
Legal action?: Has anyone thought of... - Action on Postpar...
Legal action?
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benedicte
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LilybethVolunteer
Hello benedicte
Thanks for your post. Although my PP was such a long time ago and I was under general psychiatric care I will be eternally grateful to the NHS and all those who were around to help me when I was was hit by PP twice. I know I've been very fortunate as some mums are not as well taken care of as I was.
Best wishes.
Interested what you mean by negligence leading to PPP? What do you feel causedyours?
I did raise a complaint about how part of my care was handled. I went to a&e a week postpartum and begged them to admit me, saying I thought I had PP. They sent me home and told me it was just a panic attack. I endured another week of agony before perinatal got hold of me and admitted me to mbu. A&e psychiatrist also never made referral to crisis team despite me being suicidal, as they had said in my discharge plan.
I complained because I wanted things to improve for other women, not because Iwanted revenge or money or anything. As a result of my complaint they put in extra teaching on perinatal in the programme for general psychiatry and a new protocol saying anyone who presents at a&e in the perinatal period has to see a perinatal psychiatrist not a general psychiatrist.
I also got a full apology. That was a really good outcome for me.
I had absolutely fantastic care under the perinatal team and am back with them now in my second pregnancy.
Your reply is almost my experience exactly! Totally agree that I just wanted to know it won't happen again in the future - if I'd have been listened to on day six and admitted or assessed by MH at home then my recovery would have been quicker, whereas it was day 13. I know there won't be a delay again as everyone will know it's pp but I want no delay for others x
I am glad to hear your complaint improved things!
My thinking was that the NHS would take action to change/improve if there was a legal threat, but maybe a formal complaint would be sufficient for them to pay attention.
I appreciate that it is hard to determine the causes of PPP. I do not have time right now to explain my story but I when I have a bit more time I will write a chronology of events and see which avenue to take to see if what happened to be can me avoided in future.
No - although there were mistakes in my care, which caused a week of delay, leaving me at home unsafe however the care after then was between ok to excellent and I don't think suing an over stretched and under resourced service in this area would help - a complaint would be just as effective in my opinion.
I do understand your frustration / feeling of being let down though xx
I went into A&E 10 days after childbirth and was straight away diagnosed with PPP and admitted into an MBU so I have no complaints about late diagnosis or care. To the contrary I applaud the perinatal pschyciatric teams despite being underresourced as you say.
However I do feel the midwives were negligent and the staff in the post natal ward. No time to go into detail now.
Interesting accounts; I am not able to talk within this forum what has happened to me in detail in the psychiatric unit.
I can disclose that I have had 'two frozen shoulders simultaneously' for 1 year (eventually diagnosed as injuries) once I came off Lorazepam, of a sudden I felt pain and lack of mobility. Beside trying to recover from PPP, my partner had to help doing the basics and support me in simple daily routines as I could not move my shoulders, therefore unable to cover my primary needs such as getting washed, dressed etc...
I am very grateful to be alive! My care-coordinator was asking whether I would like to make a complaint and subsequently take legal actions.
I rather like to be pro-active in other ways in order to be a tiny part in getting the wheel rolling,-making sure perinatal mental health is being improved and the health and welfare for babies guaranteed. The lack of education and awareness raising within this field was my misfortune within the mixed gender psychiatric unit.
Once out of hospital I received superb after-care and am still supported with my struggles.
I rather live in the here and now...make a little impact now and then again and prioritize my efforts for those who have been my backbone, -my son and partner, professionals in the NHS and some marvelous people...
No anger,-just gratitude!
Sabine
Everyone here is very diplomatic. I'm absolutely appalled that you would consider sueing an over-stretched, under-resourced facility like the NHS. The NHS do an amazing job. I'd be dead now, if it wasn't for the NHS and yes -sometimes they get it wrong. They got it wrong for me and I'm lucky to be alive now. The NHS consists of humans (people make mistakes) who do the most brilliant, amazing, fantastic job.
Please please try not to be angry, be appreciative for the good things that they have done for you or perhaps family or friends.
Benedicte does not wish to sue for the care she received after birth, which was brilliant first class. It was the shockingly bad care leading up to the actual birth which was the likely trigger for the PP in the first place. Generally the NHS is THE BEST, it is extremely rare that someone is treated with such neglect and malpractice as she was. I witnessed what happened, I was there.
An interesting question.
In 2013 I raised a complaint about my care in the Maternity Ward of the hospital where I was admitted after c-section regarding the care I had in relation to sleep (or in my case absolute lack of it for days) which I strongly believe caused my PPP. I had a reply from the hospital Chief Executive but never took it any further. I took the decision that when I had the time and was stronger mentally I would rather work with them on implementing my recommendations than take money away from other Mums who need care.
I consider myself to have had negligent care from both my GP and the Crisis Team locally subsequently. My GP refused to give me sleeping tablets despite knowing I had had PPP two years before which resulted in a relapse and the Crisis Team messed around suggesting I needed a urine sample as I might have a kidney infection when I was clearly psychotic again (I don't remember but my partner told me afterwards). He recognised the symptoms and ended up screaming down the phone to the police because nobody would come - that made the police arrive quite quickly! They were brilliant apparently; they said they often have to pick up the pieces for our poor Urgent Care team where I live. My Care Co-ordinator mentioned that she was surprised we didn't raise a complaint but we really didn't have the energy.
In regard to my GP - I'm not sure what suing would actually achieve. I am a member of my local peri-natal steering group for PPP mums and think it is much more positive to spend my energy and time doing something that has a much wider reach than one GP practice. Was he clinically negligent? Probably. Do I want to damage his career and reputation? No.
I have been invited to speak at conferences about my recommendations and hope to do so soon. I also hope to work with my local Healthwatch in relation to the Psychiactric Unit where I've been twice. I've also trained recently as a Life Coach and believe in putting positive energy out into the world as I know from experience you tend to then get positive things coming back. I've seen my partner go through litigation processes in relation to employment and it wasn't pleasant and was very stressful for him. For me personally I'd much work to improve the NHS for other users than take from it.
Thanks for sharing. I too hope to share and help soon when i am fully recovered
Further to my previous reply...I did investigate legal action against my employer for the not remedying the stress I was under that led me to my relapse of psychosis. Although I had a strong case they said I would probably only be awarded about £2-3k - a figure I wasn't prepared to put myself through months of stress for. They said people are under the impression you can receive huge legal payouts but generally that is not the case as you have to prove loss of income etc for life. Obviously in terms of medical negligence some people do get big payouts but I would imagine they are the ones that make the news as they are paying for lifetime care. The most my lawyer firm had ever had in an employer negligence payout was £90k and he had had his arm cut off! The two appointments cost me £hundreds to visit the lawyer just for advice so be warned - litigation is not cheap.
Hannah_at_APPAdministrator
This is an interesting question. I was lucky to get a place on a MBU eventually although the experience of a general psych ward was not good care (according to others, I don't remember it). What was pretty poor was the delay in accessing psychiatric services including from a terrible gp, before seeing a very good one. I also had a bad birth experience which wasn't handled well by the professionals involved.
I don't know whether any of it was bad enough to pursue legally (although others have suggested it was) or via a complaint, which we didn't do either. What is right for one family may well be different for others too.
I also try and raise awareness and tell my story (including lack of support into a second pregnancy where I was lucky enough to stay well). Hopefully this helps both other women and families plus professionals too. If I can help just one person avoid the hell we went through, or make a midwife more aware, that is worth it for me.
I hope you find the right way for you and your family too. The NHS can be wonderful but there are some poor experiences still had unfortunately. Take care, xx
My friend works for the nhs and she said you should always complain when things go wrong, ask them to investigate and explain why you were treated how you were. She said then they have to investigate it and see where they can improve protocols for future patients. If you don't make them aware of issues nothing will change.
As for the previous "appalled" comment I think everyone's got to do what's right for them and their family. The NHS is amazing but sometimes they do get things terribly wrong and should be held accountable.
Good luck. Xx
JaneHWVolunteer
I think it's absolutely understandable to be angry when, if you're anything like me, you look back on a catalogue of poor, occasionally abysmal, care by GPs, midwives, mental health nurses etc., etc., before, during and several years after the PP episode. I always think of the NHS as being fantastic in a crisis: they certainly saved my life. But they did nothing to avert the crisis from arising, despite requests (perhaps too polite) for help long beforehand. Which one of the people on the list does one point the finger at? And while your solicitor is wrangling their way through the might-have-beens with theirs, you are depleting both of your limited resources. Better to put a bit of distance between yourself and the whole sorry affair, and, when you've regained energy and perspective, write clearly and unflinchingly about the care you received, ask questions, and send your thoughts to the appropriate authority; accelerate to your MP if you don't feel you're being heard any other way.
Good luck!
X
I'm in NZ but I was upset about the way I was treated by some of the nurses while I was in hospital. Unnecessary and rude comments like, "welcome to mental health!" by one nurse in particular when I queried why things in the hospital were "back to front" (e.g. The hot tap was cold and the cold tap was hot, the scales were upside down. I was going to complain that the hospital had purposely done this to trick the patients into thinking they were crazy but my dad said the comment was probably because they are poorly funded.
I decided not bother in the end as I figured that I couldn't really prove anything and I was very psychotic at the time.
I think it's normal to feel angry and upset but I agree with what others have said that they are only human...
I'd also like to add that from what I have read on this forum, the NHS seems to be SO much better equipped to deal with pp than here in NZ. There is only one MBU in the whole country and its in Christchurch!
Jenny_at_APPPartner
Hi benedicte,
Personally I had very good care for which I'm very grateful. I'm so sorry you must have been treated so badly to consider this kind of action.
I would certainly encourage you to make a complaint / request that whatever happened to you is investigated so that you can get some answers and so that staff can learn and put things in place to reduce the risk or whatever happened to you happening to others - depending where the bad care was, there should be a Patient Advice and Liaison Service (PALS) which might be a place to start.
I think understanding what happened and why things went so wrong is very important in getting some closure, moving forward, recovering... If there was clinical negligence then that shouldn't be ignored - raise the questions, ask for answers, you have every right to complain. Whether you wish to pursue legal action is of course up to you, perhaps following a full investigation you would be clearer on whether this is a necessary course of action.
Wishing you well x
Just a note some trusts do put a time limit on complaints. Mine was outside of the one year limit but they accepted it saying they could understand I had needed care and therapy during that time in order to feel able to talk about it and complain.
Thanks everyone for your views and advice!
