A. Would you ever sentence an innocent to death?
B. No. I would never ever do such a horrible thing.
A. Do you have kids?
B. Yes. A son and a daughter.
A. Well, then your first answer is a horrible lie.
I'm sorry, but I don't get your point.
You must be a parent. Think harder
I'm not a parent, but the only thing I can think of is that by bringing children into the world, you are "sentencing" them to death, because they have to die some day. It's not the most helpful way of looking at life.
Not helpful but sheer truth. If you have a more helpful way, I'm all ears
Well, I don't have a secret for living forever in this life. Human beings procreate for the same reason that all other creatures do - to propagate the species. That's why the human race is still here in the first place. Throughout all of history - plagues, wars, famine, natural disasters - human beings had the desire to stay alive, and pass that life onto others - their children. If you feel that this is a fundamentally bad thing, you are entitled to your opinion. I'm not going to argue with you about it, but I do disagree.
Your description is correct. But also my view is technically correct: giving birth amounts to sentencing an innocent to death.
( Then dont have children ) me personally being a parent is the best love of all loves
And one day in my opinion the human race will become extinct.
This honestly makes no sense and is actually a very ridiculous post to put in a anxiety/depression forum.
Existential anxiety (my condition) is clearly attributable to not accepting one's own mortality. Parents assume their kids will be OK with having to cope with (the inevitable awareness of) their inevitable death. This is what makes no sense.
Umm alright? 🤔
Parents dont assume as i dont assume i just Hope they will be ok and we try to teach them how to be OK. You are assuming what other parents assume. We are all different. The world is a scary place with our demons etc to face that we pick up along the path of life we have to try to adapt and live the best way we can children in all. No we dont choose to be born but we can choose to not procreate.
I agree with the others. We all have to die some day and no one escapes it. Maybe there is something on the other side - who knows. But we will all find out one day.
However it is not helpful to obsess so much about it as life is for living for the short time we are here. Having children is a way of achieving immortality though as you will live on through them and their children.
Don't be so concerned with death that you forget to live. x
Passing on one's mortality to one's own kids to feel immortal (based on what evidence?) is the most selfish act.
It's not the reason why people have children but it is a side effect obviously.
I would name an effect a side effect if it is a minor consequence.
...or Philip Larkin's poem, "This Be the Verse" 😼
I have no idea what your point is. If you are born you will die. Most living things are not conscious of this, but unfortunately man is. The human condition if you like. Religion offers a way out... you are given life , you sin, you die. God offers forgiveness for sins or another chance to live. I am not familiar with other religions in regard to this matter , but I suspect there are recourses to a finale death. I am Christian and would like to believe in another life somewhere. I think there is something but man will never understand it on this side. We need to see ourselves as part of a whole and if one is hurt then all will be hurt. Man likes to believe he is in control and supports the individual. It's obvious to me this doesn't work well or that it is a very slow process. Interesting subject I think. Pam
Faith is not a condition that works for all and at all times, even your kids may not have it however hard you strive to indoctrinate them.
You misunderstand me. I am pointing out that humans have devised a way around this conundrum of life and death. We need a reason to live and there is one if you want it. You are free to choose your own path what others choose has nothing to do with you. Their salvation real or not takes nothing from you.. In my immediate family some are believers others not. No one is trying to indoctrinate anyone. You make a lot of assumptions which is what people do when their argument is weak. Pam
Parents indoctrinate their kids in a variety of ways, from 'god will save us' to 'everything will be alright' . My ABABA dialogue above is factual hence strong, otherwise show me where it is not.
Not everyone does that. Let me guess, you are an American male.
Wrong. I am from way overseas. So you would never say to a sad kid of yours in tears 'everything will be alright'?
Oh, I've been wrong before, Your inability to accept another point of view, of considering you might be wrong , led me to make that guess. Guess I was half right.
I hope you feel better. We are all in the same situation, why not make the best of it. I've enjoyed the discussion and hope it didn't cause you any stress. I did look up and read Phillip Larkin's poem 'this be the verse' He is new to me so thank you for that. Pam
Thank you sweetiepye.
Without faith that knows there is life after death, it is easy to see how arbitrary and tragic mortal life is. The Christian knows she will die, and yet will be resurrected to new life that is pure joy and not tainted with death and despair again. We live here and now in a mixture of joy and sorrow until the fulfillment of the time that has been promised.
Faith is hope against factual evidence of what happens to the departed ones.
If you chose to ignore the evidence of the resurrection of Christ then I agree with you. Have you actually studied the evidence, I.e. picked up a book by William Lane Craig or Gary Habermas who are experts in this area?
Thanks for the reference. I'm still quite shocked at how much more poignant everyday evidence is to whatever is claimed to be evidence of any religious hope.
What is this About?
I'm a mother and a grandmother. This is just a little weird.
I'm sorry you suffer.
Thanks for your emphaty. I hope your descendants will all be happy but nobody's hope can offset the risk of this not happening. My cautionary resolve has then always been that of remaining childless. People believe that having kids will make their lives happy, which might or might not be true in the end, but it surely is a totally selfish behaviour, being a completely one sided decision (parents decide while the child has no say).
Are you unhappy that you were given life?
With hindsight, yes. I've been enjoying life a lot but now I fully realise that it will all end (details are superfluous) . So now my scare starts outweighing happiness.
This part I can relate to. I've lost parents and 4 of my 8 siblings in a short period of time. I am over 50 so often wonder how much time I have left. I try not to dwell on it but sometimes it does become overwhelming to think there isn't really much time left.
I can't relate this at all to my kids. They are young adults enjoying their lives and im happy for them. They understood death at a young age.
We have been a very close family and make the best of our time together. My husband almost died at the age of 32. They were 6 and 13 and had to accept that he was living on the edge of death.
I think most of us can say we've though about death? I don't have a strong faith at all so I'm not sure what is waiting in the wings so to speak.
Thank you for your post. I feel your last comment made me understand better where you are coming from.
I am sorry you suffer so much with these thoughts. I hope you are able to enjoy some days with joy.
Best of luck.
Thanks Dolphin14 for sharing. I am so scared, I initiated this post to give others a chance to help me find comfort. Seems tough.
Are you in therapy where you can unload your thought and feeling?
Not at the moment, I'm evaluating such an option. I'm under some mild anti-anxiety medication to curb peaks.
Sorry if your going thro something but I relate to this so much
Nothing is more beautiful then living and its easier to see through suffering. Mortality is what makes you appreciate that beauty.
If it's so beautiful, why shouldn't it be so scary to lose it? Well indeed it is. So it is bad to give birth because this new creature will either be unhappy of being alive or happy and scared to lose being alive (let alone her/his dearest) . It's a two sided coin, both sides are painful.
Its scary to lose it because it is so beautiful? Maybe I'm misreading this.
I agree it is a painful experience living but to have done it at all is the gift.
I would not call a gift something you give someone, which you know will be taken from them without their control. That's what parents do.
You are without a doubt looking to argue a point that is clearly opinion.
I am not here to argue, I was just giving you a different viewpoint.
Have a happy existence.
I understand your worries and I really feel for you. I certainly agree that it could be argued that to have children is done for selfish reasons. I do have a child who is now grown up and is happy and fulfilled but I think would agree with your argument on one level. This is not because she fears death because she says she doesn't. Even though she doesn't dispute that she is happy, she has also said that life is hard with all its challenges and that she sees death as an easier option than dealing with a lot of the ordinary sufferings of life.
She has been an absolute joy to myself and my partner but we, or I, decided to have a child for the joy I thought it would br ing us, and so was a selfish act. I did not consider over population and climate change in my decision, or at least not enough to decide not to have a chi ld. The climate change crisis is more severe now than it was then, but had it been the same, it would not have changed my decision, but may have changed my partner's.
I used to fear death greatly, but now I am older and retired I no longer fear it very much. I think if you do not have religious beliefs you may fear non existence because the concept of it is so hard to understand or imagine that it can feel very frightening. You will also be losing all you have loved as you say. However if you think about how things were before you were born, which could be seen as much the same, it may help you to fear it less.
I do not know how old you are but as people get older many research studies show that they become happier in general and less concerned about death. More are worried about the process of dying than death itself. Hopefully that has eased as a result of improvements in terminal care, even though this still has a long way to go. Removing the stigma of death and making it a topic which is discussed more I think has also been helpful. I heard a really interesting article in radio 4 last night which talked about a new range of therapy sessions using the arts for people going through the dying process, has been developed.
I do not know if making a plan for your demise will help you. I mean one that covers the dying process as well as funeral arrangements. I will certainly do it nearer the time but I have told relatives already that I have not left anything important unsaid to them. If any one is familiar with my lengthy posts they will know that is an unlikely scenario lol!!! I therefore do not have the need for any death bed scenes and lengthy goodbyes. In my view they are more for the benefit of those that remain. I think the dying process should go the way the dying person chooses if at all possible, rather than to ease the suffering of relatives, but should hopefully be both. I want a very slow and gradual increase in morphine so I am out of it as much as possible and in as little pain as possible.
I do not suppose this will have helped you much if at all, but I have said it incase it helps you or others with this fundamental worry which is so much a part of the human condition. It has helped me to think through my views about it also, so thanks for raising the question in that interesting and confrontational way that got people thinking.I have found the replies by others very interesting and informative also.
I will check out the Philip Larkin poem, thanks to the poster who mentioned it.
My very best wishes to you.
Thanks Kim for being so open-hearted. At this stage I am 51 and as time goes by I grow more and more scared equally of my end and that of my loved ones. The longer I live the more of them I will lose. So it's a lose-lose fight. It's an absurd nightmare, all the more so as most people don't seem to care about this, whether parents or childless as they may be. If I could get a brain fix to be like that I'd go for it. Hugs.
I don't think it's absurd if you are worried.
Great points Kim.
When my sister was dieing her biggest fear was being alone and being in pain. I assured her neither would happen. I was there till the end. She died holding my hand.
For her service we called it a celebration of life. Her request was everyone wear something related to her favorite US football team. While she was sick we had a few parties to bring the family together. The final party was her 70th birthday and she died 4 days later.
I know we don't always get the opportunity to say goodbye that way. Sometimes it is sudden. I just hope I have no regrets with people. That I've done my best to treat people well.
Thanks for your reply. It was great you were able to be there to hold your sister's hand and that you had a good opportunity to celebrate her life in the way that she would have wanted and the service was as she would have requested.
You have given me an idea, I will put in my plan that while I am still conscious and not in much pain and feel up to it, I want a really big party and I and everyone else should get completely legless!!
Hi Mamioletto. You present a topic that is mystery and therefore very touchy for most people. I just so happened to read something yesterday on the topic of death and found it interesting. We all have to deal with the fact that death is inevitable. It’s our attaching a frightful or negative emotion to it that makes it so hard to swallow. I’d like to come to the place where I can peacefully accept death as a part of life and I think you and all of us would too. Would you like me to share what I read? I could send it to you in a pm.
Thanks. I can relate to what you sent me in that the current anxiety peaks seem to have been triggered by recent events connected to an older heavy emotional separation from a partner. Indeed the base doom feelings due to the unacceptable rules of life are the fertile ground of all sorts of mood disorders. It also remains unacceptable though how people become parents without having a clue as to how to explain to their kids the horrendous misteries of life. For an educated human being, giving birth cannot be deemed as any better than a totally selfish, but actually a lot worse, act.
Separation from someone we love hurts so deeply. I know. I think Deepak would say that there is no separation because the love we feel is inside of ourselves and cannot be taken away. Even if the object of our love is gone the love remains. That doesn’t bring me much comfort (yet) but I’ll keep searching because I don’t want to live in despair. I’ve lived enough to experience the fruits of pain. I hope and pray that for you. 💗
I hope you can regain your joy in living and deal successfully with your anxiety surrounding death. I found the way you chose to present your anxiety provocative but that is my opinion. I am sure some people agree with me and I am equally sure that others do not. Kind regards.
Sorry I did not mean to hurt anybody' s feelings.
I did not think you did and I always try (not always successfully) to allow the benefit of the doubt. Your approach to your anxiety is however different but I would not want you to stop posting because of me. Thank you for your reply and I truly hope you can resolve any issues you have so that you can enjoy life again.
I think, therefore I am ♥️
and what not to do. Id be so grateful to you all if you would help me in this aspect thanks.
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