Hi all, I’m keen to learn more about this topic & maximise my chances of being as well as I can be giving my body what it needs. I eat a good diet (mostly - I’m working on it). I spend a lot of time outdoors & exercise. I have just started magnesium taurate it’s my only supplement. Some of you have mentioned private testing & it being important to ‘get the right quality supplements’. I also know some people don’t believe in supplements but I’m willing to give them a try & especially if I’m deficient in something. So where do you get your blood tests done & where do you get your supplements?
Many thanks & happy bank holiday Monday (no work yippee 👏)
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Whilst Magnesium seems to be a common supplement for we heart people and Co Q10 also appears quite often it is important to discuss any such additions to normal diet with your medical team as some can be dangerous alongside some medications.
A good diet avoiding too much meat and concentrating on wholesome food without additives with plenty of fresh vegetables should provide most if not all that you need. Hydration is also vital and when calculating how much water you drink you must not include tea or coffee for obvious reasons.
For my own part I would just mention the financial benefits of a good diet. Since my wife retired and actually cooks from scratch rather than buying meals or prepared food we are saving at least £60-80 a week for a family of four. (Not far short of what she was earning as a carer!) My weight has also dropped considerably so that at my last medical my BMI was 24.9 down from 27 a year ago and all with delicious fresh food. (Helped no doubt by the Kitchenaid I bought her for Christmas. Other food processors are available. lol )
Thanks Bob I too have changed my diet massively in last 6 months & have lost weight naturally. I’m not overweight but a little has done me good!
I too cook from scratch & im loving my new diet it really suits me. I wasn’t very unhealthy before but feeling the benefits even more. I’m keen to learn & nourish my body as much as I can!
It’s really worth a read, as is the book it’s from - The AFib Cure.
Testing:- start with your GP and the recommended tests on this link above.
I have particular recommendations from GPs - also Lifestyle Medicine Trained, Nutritionist - after testing - showed ‘bad’ gut flora which needed a supplement to see off but tannins and garlic work just as well. For some test you will need a blood draw - so that can only usually happen through your GP who has to order the Plebotomist to make the draw and that you normally have to pay for if it’s a test the NHS don’t cover that test. Most of the ones recommended above my GP orders as a matter of course every FBC & Liver & Kidney every 12 weeks - the rest either when I have inflammation or am ill or every 6/12months for tracking.
Private Labs are now producing Biomarkers kits - look on Amazon to just see how many but VitD test is done privately by our local lab at the hospital - when they had spare capacity! BUT - 1st you need to know what the reference ranges are so study is essential.
Regularly I would take Vit C, VitD with VitK - oral spray, CoQ10, Glucosamine for joints though, not AF, VitB Complex but not every day. I also take ‘green’ powders with Algae, Spirulina & Wheatgrass for essential minerals - on top of all the great stuff BobD has already said about eating organic, mostly plant based foods - which is now the recognised mantra from EPs. I have to avoid anything with any form of oral Magnesium in it as contraindicated for another condition I have but I do use Magnesium Oil - occasionally! I eat a lot of foods high in Magnesium, Potassium and Zinc every day and take Zinc Picolinate a few times a week and have the Zinc lozenges on hand for virus.
I make sure I eat at least 3 types of cultured foods every day - kefir, sourdough & yogurt normally and add in Kumboocha and sauerkraut or Kimchi as often as I can.
I take Resveratrol for controlling inflammation when required and/or Astragalus.
I eat lots of garlic/spices such as Tumeric & Tumeric Tea, ginger and Cinnamon on just about everything. Taken as foods they work well but I personally would avoid all the supplements of these.
You may have gathered that it’s a lot more to it than simply popping a few supplements and taking a Wholistic view and knowing what’s right for you is as important as getting your treatments to suit you. I’m learning new stuff all the time as the science improves (still in dark ages though!) and more and more people start to realise that if we want health we need to value and respect ourselves, the land and the agriculture.
Thank you mind truly blown 🤣 Yes I saw planetary Kim’s post & save it. I ordered the book on 20 February not yet arrived. I have a blood test on 14 April so will be asking for what I can.
I will check about magnesium thanks to Bob.
I think I start small & work from there. I’m fascinating to learn.
I have read that there are some people who do eat all the correct diet and do everything to the book let’s say but for what ever reason are still lacking in certain vitamins etc after being tested and do need supplements. How can this be.? Could it be a problem with the digestive system not absorbing certain minerals etc.?
I think that is exactly it. I’ve had digestive problems since my early twenties when I had Ulcerative Colitis I had massive absorption problems. I now take meds which increase motility so again can have difficulty absorbing nutrients, trouble is that applies as much to the supplements as it does to the food so the only solution then is infusions such as B12 shots for example. Thankfully, I haven’t needed them recently as I’ve managed to maintain good levels but I was very anaemia back in my youth and had to have iron injections and B12 shots - very painful. I believe these days they now give IV infusions.
The limited amount of research that has been conducted on disease and deficiency shows that when we eat fresh, whole food - if we have a healthy digestive system - we will absorb all we need to survive, however, for many people who want to optimise their wellness, heal from injury or disease and improve fitness levels, this may not suffice. If you have inflammation this will cause disease. There is so much anti inflammatory chemicals in our food that I do believe that Food is our Medicine.
See research on MS and the roles of vitamins which was done some years ago and is still ongoing. So much so that MS Society at one time endorsed and sold specific vitamin range at their centres. I haven’t visited one recently so don’t know the latest thinking on this and it does change as more becomes known - eg:
Also as well as all cddreamer said the soils are depleted of some things. Production methods also delete things and environmental exposures to other things deplete things and increase our need while decreasing our supply
Many think that is the main reason for a percentage of the population in countries where we have modern agricultural methods - ie: use of chemical fertilisers, lack of land crop rotation etc are deficient in magnesium. We used to have a forum member who was a farmer and commented on what happens to cows when they become magnesium deficient and found Magnesium supplementation useful for their AF.
I think a lot of ill health stems from environmental factors and food contamination with chemicals is only one aspect. We are massively exposed to chemicals in our present "modern" environment that just did not exist 100 years ago.How many people eat organic food but still shower and wash their hair every day using gel? Or buy clothes or other fabric items that have been treated with stain resistant chemicals? Synthetic carpets? Fire retardant chemicals in furniture and mattresses? The cocktail of stuff in our phones and computers? It is nigh on impossible to avoid these things these days. The combination of different environmental pollutants is not tested and so called "safe" amounts only given for each individual chemical. The manufacturers of these pollutants lie and minimise their toxicity and try to cast aspersions on the reputations of independent scientists who expose the danger.
That’s amazing. You also forget that animals can also suffer with afib as I have seen reports of people’s pets getting diagnosed on their vet visits.
Isn’t it the case that for the large majority of us, vitamin and mineral supplements are for the most part an expensive form of health anxiety? The government make recommendations for folate and vitamin D, and reducing our intake of red meat. All of us here know what constitutes a good diet, also avoiding preservatives and the benefits of eating organic food.There’s evidence for magnesium in AF, less clear evidence for other supplements. I imagine other illnesses are helped by supplements of different kinds.
I know it’s sanctimonious of me to say as much, but images of starving children make me wonder about my priorities sometimes, or at least occasionally...
And yes, I do take supplements and I do have health anxiety.
I give thanks daily that I have enough, more than enough, for my needs.
I am interested in the subject but I am not anxious about my health. I’m afraid I ignore anything and everything in government guidelines about nutrition as at best their information is out of date and at worst misleading. The worst advice I’ve ever had about nutrition was from an NHS dietician who was unfortunately was obese.
in reply to
No amount of supplements will do more for you than sorting out the anxiety ..if you have anxiety addiction or any addiction..that will do more to harm you than any supplement or super food might do to heal ..and a lot of things just won't heal when you have anxiety issues. Its like trying to change a tyre while driving.... A lot of supplements can help anxiety if you have a deficiency. It seems to be the scientific view that if you have a deficiency you need a supplement if you don't a supplement won't have an impact. So taking extra on top of what you need won't give extalra benefits. But considering the lack of proper info and testing like ..its such a nightmare....RDA not reflecting reality different versions trans and his versions of different versions...its all very complicated ...and difficult. But if it makes you anxious just take a multivitamin and sort the anxiety out as a priority. And then you may find that you don't need any supplements. Good luck!
Hi Andy mainly a diet high in fibre, fruit & veg. No processed (or almost banished). No added sugar (I use stevia) & ive started baking whole food cakes as I have a sweet tooth! I make most food from scratch. Eat fish & chicken, some other meats only occasional & good quality from butcher like lamb & pork but as a treat! I do eat dairy though as I tolerate it well & have not switched this. I make small changes weekly & learning what my body likes. I do feel a lot healthier!
No easy answers, vitamin and mineral supplements work if your deficient of them and you take the types that can be absorbed by you. If your not deficient of them then they will not work.
Its not always easy to establish your bodies particular needs, take magnesium, you could have a normal blood count but be deficient in your cells where it actually matters to the operation of your heart. I mention magnesium as it is thought that todays diet has a shortage of magnesium due to farming/processing techniques and its worth knowing that magnesium supplements will not work if you take PPIs or take the wrong magnesium for your body (won't get absorbed).
I have come to the conclusion (but still looking for improvement) that a mixture of magnesium (not oxide), together with a Vitamin D and K2 complex and increasing intake of bananas and avocado is the best for me and I know that nothing will happen overnight, it takes weeks/months /years to get the maximum benefit.
The good news for these vitamins and minerals is that providing you take them responsibly (no over dose) there are no side effects - or at least none that I have experienced.
Selenium is a very important mineral especially for the thyroid and European soils are deficient in selenium. Some things like Co enzyme Q 10 which are made by the body decline with age ( and statin treatment) and a supplement is the only way to top them up. I take immune boosting supplements like NAC and Quercetin though very few vitamin supplements ( vit D is not a vitamin).
Yes its not straight forward as it is difficult to know what if any shortfalls exist in each of us. There are other key electrolytes like potassium and sodium any many more, getting it right is note easy. Don't want to over complicate matters with the vitamin D, whilst it is not technically a vitamin it is known as such and sold as such so to save getting too complicated I just call it a vitamin. Again I have focused on electrolytes mainly associated with the heart but your right about Selenium as incorrect levels can can affect thyroid which in turn can affect the heart - could write a book on it and only touch the surface.
You have picked the right topic as there is a lot to learn. Just a few points from my experience in case it helps. 1) I can't raise my Mg level with supplements and the test should be the 'Red Cell' test from a private lab like BioLab London not the one your GP will offer which almost always shows OK unless you have a serious deficiency 2) My Naturopath put me on a Mg compound and CoQ10; the latter I have read does increase blood clotting risk but not sure if this is minimal or not 3) I buy my supplements from reputable sources (I hope!) and get a regular newsletter from goodhealthnaturally.com/con... Keep us briefed on your progress.
I'll add in my view but I know most who post here will not agree since that's the nature of email threads about food supplements which tend to be replete with personal anecdote rather than science.
I'm on the side of science in general which shows that the best way to get the minerals and micro-nutrients we need is from the food we eat - vegetables, fruits, nuts and pulses and so on: a decent diet provides them all, with magnesium being very much present in green leafy veg and elsewhere. Whilst it is true that the amount of some minerals is less than it was in the past, thanks to intensive agricultural production methods and food processing, I can't find evidence that this matters enough to warrant spending on artificial substitutes, but it's true that many people do.
Regarding magnesium, again, there is a very mixed set of evidence for its effect on arrhythmias, and it did nothing for me sadly, but it does seem to help some people, and the "taurate" form seems to be the best for some reason. I suspect this is a placebo effect, myself, since magnesium of any kind is well absorbed, but, that doesn't, in the end, matter.
I would say that a blood test and doctor's advice is the way to go before taking special supplements or large doses as some people do. Vitamin D, for example, can be deleterious to the kidneys bringing on kidney stones. Magnesium and potassium, in excess, can affect the kidneys and heart.
Actually I think the majority would agree with you, especially about modern agriculture. I regret the lack of interest in the scientific and medical community for not initiating a lot more research into nutrition generally and personalised medicine through Biomarkers testing in particular but pleased to see that it is now in development and this is where technology will be essential for monitoring.
Maybe I will live to see the day when a ‘Bones’ handheld scanner will give comprehensive information about us. (StarTrek Reference).🤷♀️
I hold less respect for the discipline of nutrition than other sciences having seen so many poor recommendations from them over the years. It seems to me to be the poorest of all the medical sciences. You’re right though, it’s an area that needs more and better research.
I take Cod Liver Oil, Glucosamine Sulphate, Magnesium Citrate, Ginkgo Biloba, Vitamin C and Vitamin D. I've only started Vitamin C recently after a video released by Dr Sanjay Gupta (York Cardiology). I started the vitamin D in response to the lock down for the pandemic. On top of the three prescribed tablets every morning and evening, it's quite a lot of pills!!
I have never had any test, but years ago when I first started taking the Ginkgo Biloba I did feel the difference in my thinking capacity and mental alertness. Less brain fog. Whether the others are doing any good, I don't know, but as Shcldavies said, there seem no side effects and they are not doing me any harm (except to my wallet?).
Here you have to go privately. Nutritionists generally do them. Not the doctors but the doctors will do a blood test which will show if you have extreme deficiencies...just you don't want yo wait till its that bad to do something. I just take the cheap stuff cos I can afford it...and four a day of the cheap ones is still cheapprr than one a day of the xpemsice ones..and I have to take four or I don't feel it working... I'm gpnna try getting powder form soon so I don't have tablets. I take vitamin d but that could have madey magnesium deficiency worse and o didn't know it so I've stopped until I can get some vitamin k as well... And I take various things occasionally... Liutien at the mo cos its going out for date at my moms... And that's it for now oh cayenee pepper for vasoldilation blood thinning etc..find that has helped my blood look a lot nicer in my wrists. That's all.
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