34 yr old male here. Been having af problems since January last year. Had a couple of episodes prior to this but nothing that stopped my normal day to day activities. Had my first bad episode in Jan last year. Ended up in A and E. Was put on flecainaide as pill in the pocket strategy. Went months without any issues. Genuinely thought it has gone. Came back briefly, took pills and cleared again. Had a couple of episodes leading up to November but nothing the pills didn’t get rid of. Then comes November and been terrible since. Was put on flecainaide permenantly. Seems like the worst thing I could have done. Made it worse still. Horrible chest pain that went right through into my back. Gurling constantly in chest area. Breathless. Couldn’t really do anything without being out of breath. Bad chest pain at night made sleeping extremely difficult. Spent 6 weeks on them. Had to come off couldn’t take it anymore. Been put back on bisoprolol now and seems to be slightly improved. Can’t envisage myself taking tablets for the rest of my life as nothing seems to agree with me. I’m 34 dad of a 4 and 6yr old. Can barely play with my kids. Self employed electrician and can’t work. Gf doesn’t work either so have no idea what we are going to do when money runs out. At a bit of a witts end to be honest. Depression has started to creep in and I’m not sure what to do now. Seeing a private cardiologist on Tuesday. Hoping I’ll get some answers but seems like it’s pills or ablation. Mixed results from both from what I can gather. Poison yourself with pills or take a risk and mess with your heart. Not sure what to do.
Any advice you guys have would be great.
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Elli86
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Hi Elli and welcome to the forum, firstly I suggest you click on the link below as that will enable you to easily navigate through some really helpful information about AF and the various treatments available.
AF is what is known as a mongrel condition which means it is different for every one so in terms of treatment, one size does not fit all so it’s good that you are seeing a cardiologist next week. He/she may not be an Electrophysiologist (cardiologist who specialises in arrhythmias) but it’s a good start to finding out what is best for you.
I’ll try and give you some words of comfort. What you are experiencing now is something we have all been through and although it may take time, most of us find treatment solutions which enable us to lead relatively normal lives. Provided AF is controlled, it does not shorten life but if the chest pains you experienced continue, you should return to A&E as soon as possible to have them checked.
Assuming that an ablation is an option, whilst there are risks, they are generally classified as minimal and it is very rare for anyone here on the forum to say they regret having one. For someone of your age, subject to proper medical intervention, it would seem to be the best option compared with a lifetime of drugs. That said, many opt for that to, so please don’t despair and let us know how you get on Tuesday.....
Thank you for all the very useful info. Much appreciated. I will read and digest all of it ASAP.
The cardiologist I’m supposed to be seeing on Tuesday is an electrophysiologist like you say. He’s supposedly one of the best in the country (not sure about your policy on disclosing names) so hopefully he will be able to get to the bottom of my specific circumstances. Unfortunately my gp has still not provided him with my medical records so I may have to rebook. They’ve only had 2.5 weeks. Extremely frustrating to say the least. Hopefully they pull through Monday and I can still make the appointment.
I’ve been looking at the ablation. Seems like a lot of people have had a deal of success with it however also seems like on average it can take quite a few attempts? I need to get back to normality as soon as possible so think will need too continue privately which looks like it may get extremely pricey, especially if multiple attempts are needed? I’m trying to remain hopeful about the outlook but I’ll be honest I am struggling with it.
Thanks again for info I will be starting to troll through it all tonight
Thanks, one important thing to remember, several thousand ablations are performed annually in the UK and by their very nature, forums tend to attract folk with bad experiences, so the fact we get very few comments from people with problems suggests the vast majority are pleased with the outcome.
Yes I never thought of it like that to be honest! I shall definitely be keeping that in mind when I make the decision. See what the cardio says on Tuesday (if I get there) and go from there.
Ablations seem to be more successful for young people who haven’t had AF for long. Hopefully the fact that you need to be fit to work would be taken into account.
I hope so. I’ll be honest I’m leaning that way. It’s just in the back of my head that I don’t want to do more damage but to be honest the way I’m living right now something has got to change. Being able to work and bring money in is a must and being able to play with my 2 young kids is so important for me. I’d hate them to grow up and me having missed out on doing what dads are supposed to do.
No, because I’m pretty old! But I’m repeating what I’ve read and been told here. Be st wishes for your appointment, do come back to report and you can tell us the consultant’s name - people often ask for and give recommendations.
Thanks. I appreciate it. I’ll definitely let you guys know how I get on IF my gp sorts themselves out in time on Monday and gets my medical records sent over to him. I’ll be gutted if they don’t. His name is dr boon lim. I did a fair bit of research and he seemed to be up there with the best. If anyone has any fees back on him I’d love to hear it
I am afraid you need to ring your GPS first thing on Monday morning and tell them in no uncertain terms that you have an appointment with a cardiologist you have no wish to cancel and they need to get your referral across to him today because they have had two weeks to sort it out. Ideally give them an email address for the consultant /secretary so they can send it straight over . I have been the practice manager for a private consultant and some GPS are very good , but some aren’t and waiting in silence won’t get you anywhere . Enlist the help of the consultants secretary or the staff at your private hospital, I have chased many a referral in my time . All the best to you it’s rotten you are having to deal with this at such a young age
I have been on too them about it constantly for the last 2 weeks. Just merely getting through to reception over the phone is a challenge in itself. Every time I phone they say they have no record of calls or emails that I’ve sent that is completely ridiculous. I’m going to send another email in a minute explaining in no uncertain terms that this needs to be sent over Monday morning and then I will make a follow up call on Monday and give them a proverbial kick up the rear. I understand it’s difficult with the pandemic at the moment but how hard is it to send some documents over?
It’s certainly not easy dealing with this at my age and having the daunting reality set in that this is my new normal for the rest of my life. Just hoping some new form of surgery comes out in the next few years and I will gladly be the guinea pig for it.
By the sounds of it you are going to see a good EP. I have a friend who many years ago developed AF after a viral illness. His first ablation was successful and no trouble since which is what I wish for you . Let’s hope AF doesn’t become your new normal. My GPS got my referral out in 24 hours there is no excuse for a delay this long .Tell the receptionist you want a same day telephone appointment with your GP to formally complain . Please let us know how you get on
That’s very positive news about your friend. I can only hope that my outcome is as successful as his.
Yes I agree it’s a ridiculous amount of time to wait for what is essentially sending an email. I have sent them another email complaining and stressing how important it is they sort it out on Monday and I’m going to give them another call Monday morning to make sure it’s done. Fingers crossed I will get to speak to someone capable and it can be sorted for Tuesday 🤞
Is there an option to speak to the secretaries on your surgery phone . It’s their responsibility to type your referral and get it sent . The receptionists don’t sound like they are being very proactive on your behalf. Surgeries also vary in how good they are at monitoring their inboxes . Usually they have different ones for patients and healthcare professionals . Patient ones not always monitored as closely as you might like . Am sorry this is proving so hard for you on top of everything else
I will give that a go on Monday. I was always under impression you had to deal with either receptionist or dr. Thanks for advice.
Also I’m starting to feel like I should have got dr lims pa to send the email herself and maybe my gp would have been a bit more proactive in their response. I’ll see how I get on with my attempted phonecall Monday and if I still hit a brick wall then I will get cardios pa to send an email/call directly.
Let cardio PA know Monday morning and if it had been me I would have rung up myself and chased it . GPS don’t generally enjoy looking bad in front of consultants . Let us know how you get on
I’ve chased my gp multiple times over last 2 weeks. Like I say I should have got my EP secretary to do it also. Hopefully she’ll do this Monday morning and I can get it sorted.
That’s good news Steve. Glad to hear it. How old are you mate if you don’t mind me asking and also how long ago did you have it done? What’s your quality of life like since? Are you able to exercise at all? If so are you able to push yourself?
Just to let you know I had ablation done in Harefield in Jan 2020 aged 54, I was pretty fit before I had AF. It ruined my life for a while as I didn’t know when it would start and end up in A&E . Amiodarone kept things at bay but as soon as I had ablation I came off Amiodarone and within a few weeks back to sport. I’m still on meterprolol and apixaban but playing tennis and cycling with only the odd tired days. Like others have said it’s getting the right recipe but it can be good again.
That’s great news. I bet you were buzzing when you started getting back to sport. I did kickboxing from 18-22. Absolutely loved every minute. Was fit as a fiddle. Didn’t ever get sick or injured. Then one day I got very ill and since then I’ve had nothing but problems leading onto this which has now taken me to a pretty dark place I’m not going to lie.
Thanks for the reassuring words though. Sounds very positive. Hope it continues improving for you.
Just keep thinking there is an answer. I just was in denial for probably about a year, kept trying spinning classes and having to leave as close to passing out. It was only an episode at work my boss took me to A&E that I actually had a real wake up call that the doctors told me this was life threatening. Ask for a contact you can discuss concerns, I know I was given the arrhythmia nurses tel number and she was very good with getting things done.
I’ll need another ablation but this one isn’t such long surgery and I’m ok to wait til after Covid as with drugs feel fine. These things are treatments not cures but you can live a relatively normal life.
I’ll be honest I couldn’t even dream about exercising at the minute. My stamina is literally non existent. Seem to have perked up mood wise since switching back to bisoprolol, which is a plus but in terms of energy it’s still pretty much the same. I think if I tried a spin class I’d be out cold within 2 minutes and god knows what would happen after that.
When I actually go into AF I am no good to anyone. I just have to sit/lay down and wait for tablets to kick in. Wipes me out entirely. Luckily when on tablets full time I only get small bouts of AF if I over exert myself. Which basically means doing anything active other than walking. Not being able to throw my kids about is the most frustrating thing. Just picking them up is a struggle at the minute. That along with the stress of no money coming in are the 2 things I struggle with most.
It can be very debilitating. Think you’ll just have to get that ablation as soon as you can. I remember being like that.. it’s so frustrating especially when you’ve been so active. Good luck
The last time I spoke to the nhs cardios secretary she told me I could try a drug called diltiazem? I’m not sure if this is classed as an arythmia drug? I’d just changed over from flecaidine back to bisoprolol and was , and still am, just happy to get off the flecaidine, as previously mentioned, it was probably the worst experience of my life being on it. I’ve got some relief since switching back and it’s only been roughly 2 weeks. Personally I don’t think constantly changing drugs is going to be good for your body. I know the body is hugely adaptable but surely needs to be given time. I think it’s hard to keep track of causation of symptoms when your switching from drug to drug as well. I made the decision to stick out the bisoprolol until I see my new EP on Tuesday and go from there. Although bisoprolol still 100% does not agree with me, I don’t seem to get the chest pain and my mind is in a much more comfortable place so I’m happy with that until hopefully my EP finds a better solution.
Yes you’re right. it does take a few weeks to settle into a drug. I took Bisoprolol combined with Amiodarone and apixaban, I felt dreadful when I started on Bisoprolol for probably 3 weeks but then it settled. Amiodarone has its side effects so usually only prescribed when other arrhythmia drugs aren’t successful. Hopefully your EP will think you a good candidate for ablation and find a drug for now that will help you lead a relatively normal life. Well good luck with finding that recipe. I’m still caffeine free but at least I can drink red wine again!
Oh don’t say that! I absolutely love a glass of red wine 🍷 (or bottle) with my dinner 😂 haven’t had any alcohol for 2/3 years now. Don’t really miss it in general but I do miss red wine with a good meal 😫
Oh I know I it’s good with a meal. I find it even helps but I’m only on meterprolol and apixaban now as Bisoprolol slowed my heart too much and wiped me out. This lockdown hasn’t helped!
Yeah bisoprolol and flecaidine wipe me out big time. I’m better since I’ve switched back to bisop but still not even close to being properly functional. Hopefully my EP has some positive news tomorrow 🙏🙏🤞🤞
Has your arrhythmia been diagnosed? Ablation has a really good success rate in curing some arrhythmia (Afl) and a good success rate in improving quality of life for others (AF) and good success rates varying between the two for nearly all the other arrhythmia. Best advice I can offer is to listen to your EP, they really do know best, though they are not always right as arrhythmia's can be difficult to diagnose without an EP study (and not 100% then). Flecainide is considered a wonder drug for some, for me it did more harm than good, thankfully it put me top of the list for an ablation which has given me my life back.
I have just been told it’s af. I have no proof of this as since my initial A and E visit which they did an ecg and confirmed af, they managed to lost the scan. My cardio told me this on my first visit and I wasn’t too happy about it to say the least. Since then I’ve been on pills that keep it at bay. Its gone plenty of times but the pill in pocket flecainade used to call it down after around 8/9 hours so I’ve not had a positive since. I’m on bisoprolol now and that seems to keep it at bay at 2.50mg daily. Feel horrible on them though and as mentioned in original post I can’t do anything. Not a good existence currently.
As you mention flecainaide was absolutely horrible for me. Once I got on them that was the turning point from just about manageable in terms of work to now being unable to do much at all. Pill in a pocket was ok but a week into taking them daily and I literally felt like they were killing me. I have no idea how I managed to last another 5/6 weeks on them.
Normally your body will adapt to the Bisaprolol, this may take weeks for some. AF is normally one of the easiest to diagnose but unfortunately it can be difficult to ablate. That said the ablation techniques are improving by the month so now there is every chance just one ablation will do the trick and will give you your life back. In terms of timescales I have to say I was in a similar position to you for around a year before I had the ablation, during this period I had periods of good and bad days. After the ablation I did not think it worked for a couple of months (dispute all the advice the good people on this site told me) and it was around 4 months later before I was really good. Fortunately for you your a lot younger and generally speaking are likely to recover within a few weeks.It difficult I know from first hand experience but there is a fix to
make you better, for now your best chance of feeling good is lifestyle changes particularly what you eat and drink. I would take magnesium supplement (not oxide) and vitamins D3 and K2, eat a banana a day and avocado twice a week, cut back on sugar, processed foods and stop all alcohol and coffee. There is a good chance that one or more of these are irritating your heart with your current lifestyle. Don’t expect your lifestyle changes to work overnight, it will take time. For now you may find it better taking half the pill in the morning then the other half at bedtime but check with your doc first as your HR may go too low overnight (it does not affect most people this way but you may be one of the few that it does). I know some on this site take their medication at night as it can have the advantage of giving you a good nights sleep which is incredibly important (more than you can imagine) for our condition.
In terms of diet and lifestyle I haven’t drunk a drop of alcohol for over 2 years. Very little before that from around age 26/27.
I have other issues as mentioned in original post and have spent 10 years tweaking my diet and lifestyle trying to get to the bottom of them. So far no luck and now this to deal with 👍
I haven’t drunk any coffee since i see the cardio for first time last March. The only things I drink are water, pure orange juice and green tea once a day. I know this contains minimal caffeine so I don’t know how much of an effect this would make? I’ve read it can be good for the heart so I’ve kept it up. Been drinking it for years now. I VERY rarely eat junk food. I am partial too McDonald’s chips maybe once a month at best if I’ve had a long day at work with no break and I’m driving past. I don’t eat chocolates, sweets, etc. Very little sugar intake. Have the occasional bag of crisps but again this is very rare. My diet is pretty good to be honest. I cut gluten out around 4/5 years ago as well and have carried that on.
In terms of vitamins all I currently take are curcumin capsels. I get muscular issues when I exercise so this seemed to help and again I’ve carried that on. But d3 and k2 I used to take religiously for around 2 years. I cannot remember for the life of me why I stopped but maybe time to start again. Any other vit/min advice you or other people have is welcome.
Interesting that you mention sleep as I’ve suspected this is a BIG trigger for me right from the start. I notice if I wake up in the night or don’t get enough quality sleep then I feel terrible and I’ve often gone into AF due to this. Im guessing you have a similar experience in terms of sleep? I’d be interested to hear about it.
Again thanks for advice. I’m trying to soak all the advice I can up at the moment so I can best prepare a plan for future.
Looks like your lifestyle is good so there maybe something else to get to the bottom of. Reached the end of my knowledge on this, perhaps thyroid or some other organ malfunction. The thing to remember is that normally Docs treat the symptoms rather than the root cause for a reason and that is the root cause is more difficult to find (and the drug companies make greater profit that way). That said if you can get to the root cause it is normally easier to fix, unfortunately AF is one of the more difficult to get to the initiating problem.
Given your young age I would certainly press for an ablation asap, not only will it provide the EP with a much better picture of what is happening in your heart, it will almost certainly give you your life back, most probably for many tears to come, hopefully forever. You have age on your side and don't want to be drugged up for ever.
I have read about thyroid and it is something that matches up with previous symptoms prior to AF also. Think it’s something that needs to be looked at. Hopefully my new EP will pick up on this as I’ve sent him an extremely in depth personal account of my medical history. Also have made notes on there about family history. It’s 3 pages long so hopefully he reads it 😂 🤞 I will mention the Thyroid again to him as well as my dad has been diagnosed with this over last few years. Although he is approaching 70 rapidly.
I am very much of the same opinion as you in regards to drs only treating symptoms and not root cause.
Is extremely frustrating that this is the way it’s currently done in the industry. I understand it as far as it’s, like you say, easier to treat a symptom than it is too try to find a root cause. However I feel it’s the better long term strategy in my opinion and would get a large chunk of people off the nhs monthly financial layout if root causes were found and corrected.
Unfortunately, again like you say, this probably has something to do with the millions upon millions of pounds that are lining the pharmaceutical company’s pockets. All at the expense of people like you and me.
I definitely don’t want to be drugged up forever. I am of the belief that most drugs cause more problems than they solve. Obviously they do seem to help a lot of people also but all drugs have side effects and I think especially when your young, you have a much longer time to develop complications. I personally don’t and have never liked taking prescription drugs and I don’t think I ever will. But right now I just need something to get me by so am willing to do whatever it takes.
Hopefully my EP gives me some good advice and maybe an ablation could be on the cards. I’ve got everything crossed
Your comments about sleep suggested it, as sleep apnoea can be a trigger for AF. If you snore or wake up with a jump, feel tired during the day, that points to it.
Warning: EPs tend to be ‘fixers’ and assume possible causes will have been addressed previously. Some things can’t be changed - eg one of my valves is leaking so no EP treatment is likely to be completely successful. As an electrician yourself you will know that you can fix faulty wiring but water leaks and rodents nibbling cables are someone else’s job.
I don’t believe I snore, atleast my mrs has never mentioned it 😂 I know my dad snores relentlessly from previous experience but I’m pretty sure I don’t. I usually wake pretty calmly as well to be fair. Might be something I need to look into.
Totally get the electrician analogy and also the fact that EPs and unfortunately in my experience, most doctors tend to be fixers. I find it very frustrating that no one seems to want to find the route cause. I’ve had fatigue and what seems to be muscular issues for the last 10 years but haven’t ever managed to get to the bottom of it and doctors just want to prescribe me anti inflammatorys all the time. Frustrating to say the least.
To use an electrical analogy, if your electrics are tripping I could install a higher capacity breaker to mask the problem ( not something I would ever do by the way😂) and this will stop it tripping but it won’t fix the underlying cause and won’t stop your house burning down when your faulty oven cooks the cables.
This is the main reason I hate taking medication as I see it as masking the problem not fixing the route cause. Sometimes it’s the only option but for me should be the last one.
I couldn’t tolerate bisoprolol and had a horrible time coming off them . Like you I don’t do well on drugs . A lot of people are fine on bisoprolol but a lot feel awful . You can’t spend the rest of your life feeling awful and people are generally too polite to mention but for many it impairs or puts an end to your sex life and you are only a young man . So again. If you find you can’t get on with it speak up but be sure to wean yourself off slowly if you do end up stopping taking them
I’ve never been good on drugs to be honest. That goes for medical and recreational throughout my teenage years. Didn’t stop me continuing though 🙄 probably some of the reason I struggle so much now! Idiot! 🤦♂️
I definitely can’t continue the way I’m going and take drugs for the rest of my life. The way I feel isn’t a life I would want to continue living so I definitely need to find an alternative. Maybe my body will adapt to bisoprolol over time 🤞I can’t see it though to be honest with the way I currently feel.
I can definitely vouch for the sex life comment also. Drive almost entirely eradicated and my stamina is non existent so wouldn’t be much use anyway 😂 hopefully things change on the bisoprolol and my new cardiologist can give me some positive news on Tuesday 🙏🙏🙏🙏
You seemed to have done a lot right...sorted a private appointment with one of the best and found this source of info. I would do some homework searching Ablations on this Forum prior to your appointment so you can pose the right questions. You will have to get some tests done and try & get these done on the NHS as private will be very pricey. Assuming you have no other issues and are in good health generally ablation may be the one to go for. Good luck.
Thanks. It’s been nothing but pure desperation that’s got me to this point to be honest. Seems like I’m finding it extremely difficult to make any progress at the minute, the pandemic is certainly not helping, my body could not have chosen a better time to fall apart on me. Seems like it’s one thing after another at the minute but hopefully I will get there eventually.
Appreciate all the comments from all the af pros on here who’ve been there, done it and got the T-shirt. I don’t do forums usually but this really helps to be honest and there seems to be a real depth of knowledge on here. I will be taking in all the info sent over, especially in regards to the ablation and hopefully be more prepared for my consultation on Tuesday ( if goes ahead ) 🙏
Welcome to the forum Elli and glad you have found us. As has been said you are doing all the right things, seeing an EP, reading all the leaflets, asking questions etc. I can’t help you with ablation and age as I’m an oldie too but I have had 2 done under Dr. Todd in Liverpool who likewise, along with a few others, is one of the best in the country. Like a few of us on here I was prepared to travel to get help. I went private for initial consultation and then he transferred me to his NHS list for ablation. Best £200 I’ve ever spent. Good luck on Tuesday and hope your EP will answer all your questions and helps you to make a decision you are happy with. It is a hard one for some to make but for me it was the best decision made and wish I had done so earlier. Let us know how you get on. ❤️
Thanks for the response. I would be prepared to travel anywhere in the world to get the right treatment if I’m honest. I just want to get back to some form of normality.
I didn’t realise you could be put on an nhs list for that particular consultant. I assumed that as you were seeing them privately that you would need to pay privately again to have them perform the operation? But maybe I’m just a pessimist. How long did you have to wait for this?
Thanks for the kind and wise words. Much appreciated. Yet another nugget of info I’ve gotten from this forum. 👍
Yes, a lot of consultants, EPs, etc will happily see you private initially and transfer you to NHS for treatment. Just make sure they know this when you see them. I saw Dr. Todd 4th of July and was due to have ablation late October. Then got a call from his secretary couple of weeks later offering me 18th September! Obviously accepted. This was pre covid. Second one was during covid and initially told waiting list was 6 months or longer but again secretary called offering me one within 3 months. With first one I had to have an echocardiogram beforehand and Dr. Todd was more than happy for me to have that done locally and sent through to save me travelling. I’m in West Yorkshire and Dr Todd in Liverpool. I’m now under Dr Todd’s care for check ups etc and all NHS. ❤️
Thanks for that Frances, that’s really good news. Very reassuring as I was panicking about having a ridiculously large layout for surgery that may not work and will probably need to be repeated. Atleast that’s something positive.
Sounds like you’ve found a good dr there. Hopefully mine is the same. 🙏
Hi.I have had only had 5 episodes of AF in a year with a 10 month gap.I take 1.25mg of Bisoporol which can't be increased because I have a slow heartbeat.
My doctor said an ablation is a better and more permanent solution than taking drugs all your life.
Advice which would be particularly relevant to you in view of your age.
I personally couldn’t agree more in regards to taking pills for the rest of my life. I would much rather an ablation even though this can do damage also I’ve heard. Either way something needs to be done.
My nhs cardiologist told me that ablation is incredibly risky and he would definitely not recommend it for someone of my age as you can end up on a pacemaker after. I wasn’t confident in his advice then and after researching and receiving advise on here it seems I was correct in my assumption. This is the main reason I have gone private as I just want to go Straight to the most capable and experienced dr I can find and hopefully get onto a positive path as quickly as possible.
Thanks for advice. You seem like your outcome is positive thus far. Hopefully it continues
Yes thanks peony. I sent a very “to the point” email on Saturday and they phoned me first thing this morning to apologise for the mix up and my EP has now emailed them directly so they can send straight to him. Need to call them again in a bit too make sure it’s all been sent across.
Very frustrating to say the least! Hopefully that’s the end of it and I can now purely focus on getting myself back to normality, rather than worrying about other people being competent at the jobs they are paid to do
Finally received confirmation that all’s been sent and received. Talk about leaving it till the 11th hour 🙄 no idea why it took so long but it’s done never the less 😃👍 look forward to the meeting tomorrow
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Woke up in afib again, converted by exercising. Need some advices. 
Just diagnosed with AF after 30 years of problems
In need of some advice. 
Some reassurance and advice please
Feeling grim after hospital stay for AF episode - advice please!
