How many with proximal Afib have had a successful Cyroblation resulting in NSR for many years, one and done or how many tries? Did you need the assistance of rhythm control drugs after the procedure? If so, are you sorry you did the ablation since the Afib was proximal/occasional. Mine acts up every 2-3 months and I’m only on rate control (Cardezem) but it comes out of nowhere and puts me on the couch for almost 24 hours in misery.
I have been blessed with my 1st granddaughter who lives in HI but I’ve only seen her once because I’m so afraid to fly; she is my motivation in getting this fixed💕
The absolute scariest thing i’ve heard it can make it worse,I hope that is rare!!
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2524-GrannyK
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I've had my monster for 5 years. No surgery for me! There is no cure I've been told, only a possibility to improve quality of life with ablation. Some people here have had 2 or 3 or more ablations. I personally, would not risk scaring my heart, or any other associated risks for the possibly of the 70% chance for a year or 3 to be afib free, then to have it come back again. No not for me.
Im in Afib usually 2 or 3 times a week, with rates between 140 and 180. It last a few hours. Never know when the monster will raise its head but I dont allow it to control my life. I refuse to worry about the "what if's". I carry on like I have not a care in the world.
Before the covid, we traveled all over the world. I packed for the monster, (diltizan and anticoagulants). Some events are more difficult than others, but I know AFIB will not kill me, even though I sometimes feel like it will. Even when the monster acts up, I will go for a walk, or anything that involves movement. Laying down makes mine so much worse. Yesterday morning I made 6 banana breads while in afib. Just like the Energizer bunny. I keep moving.
This is my experience, everyone here has different experiences, and different treatments.
You will have a cornucopia of afib experiences here.
Bambi 65, thank you for your reply! I’m truly glad you can function with Afib, but I seriously don’t know how you do it. The issue I have is that it’s not something I can live with. I passed out going to the bathroom last time I had an attack and they are becoming more frequent. My partner is also sick of me being sick. What if I cause an accident, or how do I get home if I take a walk and pass out. These are the reasons I’d like to know how successful ablations are & how often they last . Flip side, if it can make Afib worse is ghat outcome common ? I’m not sure what option I would have if that happened, a pacemaker? I have heard some who have an ablation are good 10 years later, I literally would have my life back😊
I am new to this journey but from what I can gather I am afraid no one can honestly answer your question. It so depends on your heart, your ablation! But I do so feel for you. What do your physicians say? Good luck
I'm so glad you asked this question, and raised the concerns you have! I'll be watching this post for replies. There has to be statistics out there somewhere -- for example, I've read that a certain percentage of people who have had an ablation will need a second ablation, but I don't know what kind of AF they had, how long they had it, if it was or wasn't controlled by medication, etc. & some people even have 3 or more, and those 3d and 4th ablations (or more?) are often referred to as "touch ups." That seems like such a dismissive term to me. I've also read people on different internet support sites saying "one and done" but when I read more and more from different sites, that's the exception.
Doggiemomma(btw ♥️ Your name, yes I know, I see everything from one and done to a few wheeeAfib gets worse, I’m sure a lot plays into it, it not sure what.
There are statistics and you can easily look them up but they won’t answer the most important question - will it work for you? There are SO many variables including the expertise of the EP, the equipment being used and the aftercare - which means how you heal and what you do or don’t and how you look after yourself and your lifestyle choices.
My EP and department advocate ablation for people under 50 who are fit and with no other conditions and say they have good outcomes 1st time - maybe 80-90%? The older you are and with other conditions such as high BP, diabetes, thyroid, auto-immune conditions etc the lower the good outcome rate which will start to fall around 45-50 years and it will be unlikely to last for more than a few years and will need repeat ablation. That doesn’t mean to say it is ineffective because very often the symptoms of AF are less after ablation.
The complication rate is also a variable from country to country and EP to EP - ask your EP what their success rate and serious complication rate are. I’ve seen anything from 1-4% quoted. Going by reports on this forum, serious complications are very rare but I have heard of Tampernade and Phrenic Nerve damage - both of which healed over time. In the UK these figures are collated and should be in the public domain but any good EP will happily give you their figures if you ask.
I’ve had 2 ablations - first made things a lot worse and I ended up in Acute Cardiac Care, Second a few months later left me free of AF for 3 years but the drugs and sedation exacerbated an underlying condition which has been far, far more disabling than AF because it is 24/7. I now have a re-synchronisation therapy pacemaker and not had AF now since it’s implant which was 2018.
As far as the procedure is concerned it is not an operation and I certainly recovered very quickly from the procedure itself (not the complications) so if you are a suitable candidate with no underlying conditions then I would not hesitate in recommending the procedure - especially if you are so symptomatic and sooner rather than later as the earlier in the commencement of AF you have the procedure - the more likely of it’s success - but do your homework and research who gets the best results and uses the most advanced equipment.
Most people will continue to take rate and rhythm control for some time after the ablation because the longer you can stay in NSR the more likely the success of the ablation and during the ‘blanking’ period (3-4 months) you will often get some AF - doesn’t mean the ablation has failed. I think most people will be able to reduce/stop the drugs 3-6 months after, except of course anticoagulants which here in the UK are normally for life as ablation does not reduce the stroke risk that AF brings but opinion does vary, especially between Europe and US.
AF is progressive in most people and the treatments are - drugs, ablation, pace and ablate (after all else has failed and very symptomatic) or put up with it - that’s basically it.
Go to the AFA website and just read up heartrhythmalliance.org/afa... - you can then switch the US version because there are some differences - interesting to note the differences.
I would say that AF NEVER stopped me travelling, flying, sailing, skiing and anything else I wanted to do and I had AF episodes whilst flying - it’s not a problem although the stress of getting through the airport can be so ask for assistance - that has worked well for me.
The most unusual place I ever had AF was in a very small boat whale watching in a Fjiord in Iceland whilst Hump backed whales breached about 100 yards away. No it wasn’t the whales that did for me - it was the walk to the boat!
Hope some of that helps - although I know it really doesn’t answer your questions but all I can say is all you need to fear is the fear itself. No certainty in this world so you need to make the most of what is given and missing out on seeing your grandchild is not an option - whatever you decide to do.
PS - Birth of second great-granddaughter last week - absolute beauty.
I had a cryoablation in April 2016 and for me it has improved my quality of life a 100%!
I had AF for 20 years, similar to yours, using a Pill in the pocket for about 16 years successfully, then the last 4 years it simply became more and more frequent and really made my working and social life almost unbearable as I never knew when it would "kick off"
The ablation took me a long time to recover from, different for each person, but once I felt my strength had been regained and my confidence boosted , I have never looked back. ( I also retired from 39 years of teaching a couple of years ago and that has helped big time!)
I do however, not touch alcohol,( or drink it!) , coffee, strong dark chocolate, fizzy drinks, cold drinks or cold ice cream and no big meals late at night as any triggers for the Vagas nerve can disturb my ❤️ Very easily. Think I am one of the "sensitives" if you get my drift!
I walk briskly everyday non stop for 40mins to an hour and do tai Chi and gentle yoga. I still can't sweep with a broom for some reason as that can make my heart feel bumpy strangely...
It is worth really researching and choosing the best EP in your area and unfortunately they should be doing a certain number a year to keep up their practice but with co vid I'm not sure how or how long you would have to wait. You could always pop yourself on the list and then see how things are when your name comes up?
I also take no drugs for my Heart now but they did discover that I had an under active thyroid gland and I now take 50 g of thyroxine a day.
It's a very tough decision though and really worth considering carefully and don't feel rushed into it. So many people have different reactions to an ablation and I have to say I really don't want to have another one so am super careful what I eat and activities I undertake but life is still sooooo much better . 😎
Congrats on first grand child... I'm still waiting!!😉
You say you now take medication for your thyroid,Sarah. I want mine checked but my GP is only doing the initial test. How did you manage to get a test for further result?
I use Medichecks which is a private service in the UK and my GP accepts their results. You can google them and see which of the various thyroid tests you want. You order online and they post it to you, you do a finger prick blood sample at home and post it back to them - results plus a doctor's interpretation emailed to you within a couple of days. I've found them very good.
Are you in the UK Sarah? If so have you any advice for reserching/ choosing the best EP in your area? There seems to be a kind of omerta in operation when medics talk about each other. There certainly is no trip advisor ranking or reviews! There was one helpful article in one newspaper a couple of years back asking EPs which EP they would choose for themselves, but that's about it.
It was a slightly different route for me as when I finally met an EP ( took 20 years as back in the day) he actually added an extra option for me which was to have him perform a cryoablation as part of The Avatar Trial. I liked him, he answered all my questions, gave me lots of time , looked me steadfastly in the eye, took me seriously and so I finally agreed to be part of the three year trial. I did research on all EP's in the area and also asked any GP friends and decided I definetly wanted to stay close to home as part of the trial was to be discharged the same day to save the NHS money for an overnight stay! He was also performing a new option , at the time, of only using one catheter instead of two. He was trying to proof that going back into to check that there were no jumps had proved unnecessary in all the ablations he had carried out and added risks to the patient.
I'm sure Bob D will know if this is correct or not, but I also read that you should look for an EP who performs approx 200 ablations a year so they are well practiced in "The Art" , so to speak!
I think lots of considerations as what works well for one person, doesn't always for another. We are all so different and some people cope well with all the drugs while others, like me, feel they are walking through treacle everyday and still breaking into AF... Some people also do have success with ablations. I was 58 when mine was carried out and because I was on a trial I had excellent after care and support which really helped me. I also came off my Soltalol very slowly which really worked for me as didn't suffer any break through AF when heart was settling after the freezing. I'm not sure quite why EPs rush for patients to go "Cokd Turkey" as the heart has had rather a shock for sure after an ablation.
Anyway your experience is interesting. I wonder if your EP was the one you were referred to by your GP or did you ask to be referrred to him.
I have a very well regarded EP who is very impressive and direct. He does at least 3 - 4 Ablations a week on the NHS and more privately so I guess approaching 200 a year. I have had 2 Ablations myself. But I still have occasional bouts of AF.
Problem is I had paroxysmal AF for 10 years and persistent AF for 5 months before the first ablation in 2016 and again for 5 months before the second in 2017. Persistent is always harder to treat. I have been to see two other specialists privately. A friend at a leading teaching hospital recomnended another, but he seemed a but "flash" to me. They all have slightly different approaches. But in the end I trusted my man, I like him so stuck with him for the second ablation.
Was I right? I don't have any GP friends to consult so I wondered if there was any other resource for checking these EPs out. I checked out the names on the AFA website. Looked up their experience and training online, but once it's down to a short list then what? My GP said go with your instinct. So I did.
But I am wondering if I go for a third Ablation should I try to go with someone else? Anyway I am feeling ok at the moment and the AF when I get it is very slow and not hard, so I am managing well. But I would so like to be completely rid of it and off the meds.
Best wishes. ❤
PS I agree about the cold turkey, I wish I had stayed on the flecainide and beta blockers right after the 2nd Ablation, just to give the heart a chance to rest and be re-modelled.
Yes all the answers are valid because the only thing that matters is what is right for you and you MUST make a decision and stand by it no matter what. Doing nothing is just as risky!
Just a short story about my experience and how it probably saved my life.
I had my first RF ablation for paroxysmal AF in 2006 and repeats in 07 and 08 after which my AF was terminated.
In 2010 I was diagnosed with agressive prostate cancer which the doctors wanted to treat with radiothrapy. I requested surgery to remove it which they prevaricated over but having considered my greatly improved condition thanks to ablation and lack of AF finally agreed and in 2011 I went under the knife. Just as well as the cancer had already spread and they not only had to remove a few other bits and bobs I could survive without but also put me on hormone implants and radiothery to mop up any stray cells. They told me that had I still AF they would not have operated and I would likely have been dead a few years now so my point is that you never know what's hanging till it drops and any chance to improve your quality of life MUST be grabbed with both hands.
Most importantly address any life style matters such as diet (less meat and processed foods). more plant based foods, weight loss (BMI less than 26) no alcohol, les stress and a positive outlook have all been shown to improve AF outcomes.
Finally I still have no AF although a couple of years ago a different arrhythmia joined me which is proving far more difficult deal with although less debilitating for the most part.
Had Cryo ablation in Jan 2018 no afib since. No problem with the ablation.
If afib came back tommorrow morning I would happily have another ablation tommorrow afternoon.
Will it work for You?? Ask an EP. I am not medically trained but if your heart and you are healthy with no other co morbitities why not?
As for the scarring of you heart? Well a cryo is used to do Pulmonary Vein Isolation so it's in the mouth off the veins not inside the atria. ( there is a noun to describe that area but I can't remember it)
If there are other areas to be ablated then that would normally be Radio Frequency. (RF) I am aware there are some newer methods but dont know how they work.
As for the scarring overall, I think if it stops the afib then it must be worth it. Please note 4 months after my ablation i was running 6 mies cross country almost as fast as was doing prior to afib, so it clearly had little detrimmaental affect on me.
Also having afib constantly can affect your heart by atrial remodelling ( afib begets afib) , and can get increases in size of your atria which can lead to other issues . Is that better or worse than a scar?? I don't know for you but I thought so for me! If you do not spend much time in AFib this may not be an issue for you.
In my case my afib was getting more frequent and lasting longer , in fact needed chemical intervention in the local hospital CCU after 8 days in AFib at 130 to 195 bpm resting. The drugs I was taking daily had bad side effects. An ablation was a no brainer for me .
I was 57.5 years old when I had the ablation with no other co morbitities
I had my one and only ablation in 2013 aged 63. I stopped meds on the same day except anticoagulants. I had bumps and arrhythmias for 5 months but then... nothing. No more AF. So am a big fan.
Hi, I can’t add to other comments on your question but it seems to me that if you have only ever been prescribed Cardizem (diltiazem) which isn’t very effective (I take it) against AF you are making a big jump from there to an ablation. Many people take an anti arrhythmic medication as well and progress to an ablation if that isn’t successful. After reading your previous posts I do think that probably an ablation is a good move for you but taking an anti arrhythmic first might be an option while you think about it. A cardiologist will need to prescribe it though. You did say a cardiologist offered to perform a cryoablation which means he must be an EP but I assume you don’t feel confidence in him?
As you asked for outcomes I had an RF ablation which is more thorough than a cryoablation but it was only totally effective for two years and after that the AF came back and gradually increased.
Hi, 2524-GrannyK , you can find someone living near you from the website healthunlocked.com by clicking on your avatar at the top right of the screen and choosing the option to ‘find people near me’. Then you will have to sort through the profiles to find those with AF. I hope that helps! Good luck 🍀
You may not get the most positive view of success in ablation here as many will move on after a successful outcome. My cardiologist who was previously very conservative has now moved to recommend ablation where drugs don’t work mainly down to the improvements in procedures and time involved - his experience has been in the main that even if does not stop the AF it can make symptoms more bearable , whilst recognising there is as always a small amount of risk - in the main if your AF is really very symptomatic it makes the decision easier.
AF since 1997. Ablation 2018 at Bristol Heart Institute . AF free since and quality of life improved beyond belief. How long will this last? How long is a piece of string? I will enjoy my AF free time whilst I can. I cannot recommend that someone undergoes an ablation but it worked for me.
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