Reflections on Patient’s Day, Birming... - Atrial Fibrillati...

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Reflections on Patient’s Day, Birmingham, 2019, a very personal overview.

CDreamer profile image
46 Replies

Warning:- some material contains a portion of personal ranting on outdated NHS protocols so some readers may need to look away at that point.

I thought a post may help me to digest the day if I posted a short(ish?) impression for those who may be thinking of attending future events or of what goes on.

This was my 3rd attendance, my first in October 2013 felt as though a door had suddenly opened onto a world I believed I had no access to. Suddenly I ceased to feel as though I was tackling AF on my own, in ignorance and without adequate, informed information from my doctors and acknowledged I had access to informed, updated information from expert Electrophysiologists, researchers and GPs.

Following my first visit, I learned to ask more questions, not just accept what I had been told locally and that it was OK to range further afield if treatments were not available locally. I travelled to London for ablation - which was in those days - not an option offered locally.

My second attendance was last year, 2018, when I will admit to being far more interested in the STARS & PoTS seminars, than AF.

2019 - First face recognised as we ascended the escalators - of course Bob. Always good to see familiar faces and good to catch up with some I hadn’t seen for a year or two - one of whom used to be a familiar poster on the forum - and who you may very well hear more from in the future. Attending the Patient Day is as much about talking to others about their AF journey as listening to the speaker, brilliant though they always are.

My impression was that the focus this year was less on treatments for AF and far more about being an informed, expert patient and great emphasis was placed on the partnership between the caring team - whether it be EP, Arrythmia Nurse, Physiologist, GP or researchers and patient and how we as patients need to be well informed and also play a very active role to help ourselves.

Eg:- If research such as the Lifestyle Changes ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/257... have been shown to be as an effective ‘treatment’ for some as drug therapy or ablation for AF - with the greatest will in the world from doctors - those changes must come from the patient’s willingness to engage and to be an active agent in their own recovery. To keep BMI below 27, to drink very moderately (much less than you think to avoid permanent scarring of the heart), to give up smoking, address Diabetes, lower BP etc, etc.

My only wish is that there would be a lot more programmes such as 6 month weekly attendance clinical/education programmes which could be accessible locally - similar to some of those that EP’s in the US have set up and I know operated in Bath as a trial - Cardiac Kit.

I was particularly interested in what Prof Osman had to say on Permanent AF and encouraged to learn that I may have made the right choice in sticking (for the moment) with the Re-Synchronisation Pacing Therapy and rejecting the AV node ablation - which is last resort as far as symptomatic control is concerned - and of course leaves one entirely PM dependant, and which is irreversible. I feel my heart has stabilised again which has a knock on affect on improving my general health so I am beginning to feel the benefits so have rejected the AV node ablation for the time being.

We learned from Dr Vishal Luther what Heart Failure means - and it’s NOT what it sounds as though it means! We learned what an Ejection Fraction is and how it is calculated and how useful it is to know yours but also that is not the B all of how HF is diagnosed. From that we learned that being in Permanent AF does not mean HF and that sometimes we need to remember that. Of all the speakers, this young (to me!) man was the most articulate of the day, able to present a complex subject in an understandable and digestible format - although a screen pointer would have helped!

AF Management - GP or EP? An interesting question well presented by Dr Fay - outstanding AF Expert GP - we all need a Dr Fay in our area as unfortunately it seems I have quite a lot of competition to persuade him down to Devon.

Cloning.....mmmmm - now that’s a possibility. Where do I go for that?

Unfortunately for the majority of us - an uncommonly passionate and informed and actively campaigning GP about AF.

The debate for the EP management was put by Dr Kim Rajappan - EP at the John Radcliffe Hospital, Oxford. Some illuminating facts and figures emerged not least the number of ratio of EP’s to patients in the UK - horribly low - with only about 1,000 EPs in the UK. Unsurprising then that there are long waiting lists. One of the finer points made was that many of the people on their waiting lists - actually don’t need to see an EP and could be perfectly well managed at GP level - if only they gave us the time and.....

IF - we had educated GPs, IF we could get an appointment, IF GP’s knew more about AF and took it seriously and If they weren’t so risk adverse and IF they were up to date with technology so that they could email an ECG for immediate analysis if they required expert opinion.

Here comes the rant.....

Such a LOT of resources wasted because of inadequate communication between primary and secondary care and lack of use of technology.

We now have the technology - SO WHY AREN’T WE (NHS) USING IT and why have they been SO slow to react? Possibly a political/economic answer so I won’t go there.

Which is a subject very close to Prof Peters heart - head of Cardiac Electrophysiology at Imperial NHS, founder member of the Connected Care Bureau to implement innovative care pathways at Imperial NHS, now extended nationally and internationally. Also clinical advisor to Google, partners in the trials on using green light technology which Bob mentioned, helpful to diagnose and monitor AF without wasting resources on Holter ECG’s on people who may only have an occasional episodes of PAF. A gentleman sitting near me told me he had worn several, never had an AF episode when wearing one - but had episodes both day before and after! Finally sense is being talked about a bit of joined-up-ness and direct access to EP expertise without having to wait months to physically see one!

I liked Dr Peter’s phrase - ‘We are still in a 19C medical protocol mindset whilst ignoring 21stC technology’. Is is any wonder we have to wait so long, waste so much paper and resources when I GP needs to WRITE to a clinic requesting an investigation such as a 24hour mobile ECG, patient needs to wait for a busy clinic (my experience 6 weeks) for an appointment which they need to attend in person (!) often needing to travel distance to their cardiac clinic, then wait for ECG to be analysed, the Consulting doctor to read the ECG, dictate a letter to the GP, wait for a administrator to type and post the findings & recommendations.

Arrythmia nurse Stephanie Cruikshank put all of our concerns about AF into the shade as she described her patient story of living with a congenital heart condition which means she now has an ICD. You know sometimes when we say to our clinicians ‘You don’t know how it feels...’. Maybe they do......? and then some!

Dr Louisa Malcolme-Lawes gave us a briefing on ablation technology and an insight into Hybrid Ablation.

Unfortunately, after which we left for the long drive home to Devon, so missed Helen Hodgson’s talk on how to support others with AF - sorry about that Helen if you read this as I would have liked to have introduced myself as we have communicated on other matters.

Ditto Dr Javaid’s talk on - Why is Anticoagulation so Important? As well as Dr Kanagaratnam’s talk on LAO - Left atrial appendage occlusion - you may know it better under the more commercially known name of one of the devices used for this procedure - The Watchman Device - but devices by other manufacturers are often used. Post only this morning about this - should have been there!

I thought that apart from helping myself to digest my huge meal of AF Patient Day information and what is significant for me - this synopsis may just whet the appetite for others to attend in the future. For the very low price of £35 (lunch included) you get easy access to information from the top people in their field, all in one place and you get to ask them questions. How good is that?

If you want to be in the know - be there next year.

I guess my only other wish from the AFA is that these excellent seminars could one day become webinars - I know that would involve a lot of legal, copyright and technical issues but it is being done a lot in other arenas?

Best wishes CD.

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CDreamer profile image
CDreamer
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46 Replies
Padayn01 profile image
Padayn01

Brilliant Post, will it be in Birmingham again next year?

CDreamer profile image
CDreamer in reply to Padayn01

I think so, normally is, but there is a Patient Day in London as well which is not always as well promoted.

BobD profile image
BobDVolunteer in reply to CDreamer

We used to have one tied in with London AF but since that was a medical conference with drug companies present the legal situation became untenable so we had to be left out.

in reply to CDreamer

Hello, next year's patients day will be at The ICC on Sunday 27th September. If you would like to be kept up dated on when registration opens, please email us at info@afa.org.uk

Thank you, Rachel - AF Association Patient Services Coordinator

BobD profile image
BobDVolunteer in reply to Padayn01

Every year at the ICC.

Padayn01 profile image
Padayn01 in reply to BobD

Cheers bobd and congratulations on your award

jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50

Thank you for passing all that information on to us CD. I love your suggestion of having webinars.

Jean

CDreamer profile image
CDreamer in reply to jeanjeannie50

So much information I couldn’t possibly attempt to recall so only what stuck for me but hope it encourages others to attend.

I have asked about webinars before but I’ll pursue. How are you Jean?

jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50 in reply to CDreamer

Thank you for asking, I'm not too bad, have been in constant AF since 1st August, but having a cardioversion tomorrow. They usually work for me. Fingers crossed please, as going to Croatia this Sunday.

Jean

CDreamer profile image
CDreamer in reply to jeanjeannie50

Hope it does work for you Jean & enjoy your holiday. X

wilsond profile image
wilsond in reply to jeanjeannie50

Good luck Jean xx

Frances123 profile image
Frances123 in reply to jeanjeannie50

Hope all goes well for you Jean and enjoy Croatia.

Hugs

Frances xxx

Tricia239 profile image
Tricia239 in reply to jeanjeannie50

My fingers are very tightly crossed for you. Have a wonderful holiday. Relax! Xx

Kaz747 profile image
Kaz747

Thanks for sharing CD. I’d love webinars too - it would enable a global audience to watch.

cbsrbpm profile image
cbsrbpm

Very well written CD and very informative, I almost feel like I was there. Thank you.

BobD profile image
BobDVolunteer

Great synopsis. We left not long after you and agree with all you said. especiallu joined up thinking.

We were chattting to Matt first thing and he waas telling us about the joined up system he had organised in Bradford only for the local hospital to install an incompatible computer system. Makes grown men weep!

CDreamer profile image
CDreamer in reply to BobD

🤬😱😰

Jalia profile image
Jalia

Thank you so much CD for taking the trouble to post all this info ! Very interesting.

Jay10 profile image
Jay10

Thank you for all the info CD, it seems a very interesting day. Not sure I would be able to remember as much as you have.

Enjoy your holiday.

Jackie

Finvola profile image
Finvola

Wonderful post CD, thank you for that.

An awful lot of what you say I have listened to from my cardiologist who is trying to set up a group of nurses, academic(s) and informed patients, led by a cardiologist to identify and plug some of the yawning gaps in the management and treatment of AF patients locally here.

Politics obviously must play a part in this as money, training and personnel are the key. The will is there in so many people and the AFA does point the way forward.

CDreamer profile image
CDreamer in reply to Finvola

So pleased that is happening in your area!

Finvola profile image
Finvola in reply to CDreamer

Sorely needed, CD but funding will be the stumbling block. After he had conducted area surveys, my cardiologist found patients who had been taken off anti-coagulation for procedures but not restarted, follow-ups not happening, patient backsliding (very common) and one poor man put on Amiodarone and not reviewed in 10 years. Big holes in the system, uninformed patients and overworked professionals.

He is very keen on nosey-pokes like me who want to know more and want to spread the word!

Geonome profile image
Geonome in reply to Finvola

I am a huge proponent of being in charge of your own health care, so many of those instances that you mentioned, i.e. not restarting anticoagulants, on Amiodarone with no follow-up, etc., would not have happened if these people knew more about their own health issues and treatments.

Self education and assertiveness is so important.

I very much appreciate all the information I have received from this group of people. I think this has been a huge factor in my health, as I am in Canada, and we don't have access to patient education days, as the UK people do.

I'm all in favour of webinars!!!

By the way, my EP calls me a "savvy person" and my GP asks my input on how I think my PAF should be treated.

Finvola profile image
Finvola in reply to Geonome

Couldn't agree more!

CDreamer profile image
CDreamer in reply to Finvola

That exact scenario was described during the seminar. Exasperating for EPs & patients!

Finvola profile image
Finvola in reply to CDreamer

That's interesting - it's apparently widespread then. I'll tell my cardio when I see him in a couple of weeks. As Geonome points out, more informed patients might lead to fewer people falling down health holes.

Geonome profile image
Geonome in reply to Finvola

And that is why I appreciate this website so much!! Thanks to all the regular informed people who have educated me, beyond what Google has to offer!!

ornella profile image
ornella

Thank you for sharing , great post.!!!

doodle68 profile image
doodle68

Thank you for taking the time to report on your day CD :-) it must have taken ages to type it all out. You effort is appreciated.

rosyG profile image
rosyG

well done- very informative. We are lucky to have Stephanie as part of out support group in Epsom- anyone near enough is welcome to attend on the first Wednesday of the month- 5pm at epsom hospital, post graduate medical centre.

Steve112 profile image
Steve112 in reply to rosyG

I must try and remember to get along to the Group as my condition has changed and would welcome any advice...

rosyG profile image
rosyG in reply to Steve112

We’ve got an excellent cardiologist dr Bogle in November and Dr Bajpai, our medical director , comes towards the end as long as his ablation list is finished

Ianc2 profile image
Ianc2

A most heartfelt vote of thanks to you. Lots of useful information, beautifully presented.

Paulbounce profile image
Paulbounce

Great post.

.....Such a LOT of resources wasted because of inadequate communication between primary and secondary care.....

Sad but true.

Gowers profile image
Gowers

Thank you for the summary of patients day - very interesting

Enjoy profile image
Enjoy

Thank you.. thank you.. thank you. Really appreciated and very helpful. Wish all medics could read it.

lindat15 profile image
lindat15

Thanks for the update as unable to make it this year- attended previous 2 years and found info really helpful in managing and taking fwd my treatment so good to get this year's discussions summarised.

Thank you CDreamer for sharing this excellent synopsis of your day. We appreciate your comments, and I have made notes from your suggestions and compliments too. These will go towards our evaluation!

We are looking at the possibility of making the day a webinar, but as you said, there are a few legal implications we need to check first.

However, we hope that most of the presentations will be available to download soon (you might recall Prof Peters mentioning that he does not disseminate his presentations), so those who were not able to attend, can view them (and hopefully hear them) too!

Thank you once again, and it was lovely to meet you!

Best wishes

Rachel - AF Association

Lottie57 profile image
Lottie57

Thank you for a very informative post CDreamer - will definitely be there next year

Crystalbowl profile image
Crystalbowl

Thank you CDreamer for your comprehensive feedback and also to Rachel. I will look forward to being able to see/hear some of the presentations and webinars would be great for those of us who might find it difficult to be there in person. I am a relative newbie on this site and find it very interesting and helpful. I would like to have attended this year but did not feel well enough - not just the AF and HR but also post herpetic neuralgia following shingles 8+ months’ ago. Hopefully, next year’s event might be more manageable for me.

irene75359 profile image
irene75359

Thank you so much for taking the time to post this; you must have been scribbling like mad every session you went to! Unfortunately I am out of the country otherwise I would have loved to have gone.

CDreamer profile image
CDreamer in reply to irene75359

I didn’t take any notes - actually I wish I had done - I posted only what ‘stuck’ with me.

Hopefully, as Rachel said, the AFA will post some of presentations because there was some great information.

irene75359 profile image
irene75359 in reply to CDreamer

I used to sometimes take minutes at meetings as well as being a participant; however, I used to become anxious as I was missing a lot of the fine detail of the discussion.

CDreamer profile image
CDreamer in reply to irene75359

You are so right - which is why I deliberately chose not to take notes - but smart phones are a fabulous tool so if there was something I wanted to refer to - photo.

dedeottie profile image
dedeottie

Thanks for your summing up of the day. I really wanted to go this year as, unlike the previous year, the programme looked to be interesting to me. Also, it would have been great to meet you CDreamer. Unfortunately my son was running the Cardiff half marathon so my support was needed!

Im glad you enjoyed the day and hopefully I may see you there next year. X

Peddling profile image
Peddling

Very impressive synopsis, which I am going to pass on to my cardiologist when I see him next month. Thank you for making the time to keep us informed.

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