Even An "Unsuccessful" Ablation Is Still VE... - AF Association

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Even An "Unsuccessful" Ablation Is Still VERY Beneficial

Aufgeblassen
Aufgeblassen
62 Replies

There seem to be a LOT of naysayers here against ablations. I don't know if it is rationalization due to fear or due to denial of one by a sub par healthcare system.

But the truth is, The average 1st ablation is 60% of the time a CURE (i.e. AF is gone for LIFE) and 85% of 2nd ones are.

Even "unsuccessful" ablations can be very beneficial. Example:

I had an ablation. I went 17 months being 100% AF free afterwards, and was 100% back to normal the very next day. It suddenly came back out of the blue, in the middle of the afternoon, just watching TV in my recliner (I had not even been drinking). I had a successful cardioversion. Two mos. later, AF came back. I had another successful cardio. A month later, AF came back. I had another successful cardio. 2 weeks later, AF came back. Then I had a successful 2nd ablation 2 weeks after that. That was 17 mos. ago.

So if my AF ever comes back again (meaning 2nd ablation was "unsuccessful"), I STILL had a long period of living a perfectly normal life, doing whatever I want, eating whatever I want, and DRINKING as much as I want w/o any worry.

So who is going to argue an ablation is not worth having, because it is "only" 60-85% successful, and when unsuccessful, you have "only" many, many months being AF free???

Seems like a day and a half of you time is worth anywhere from many, many months to forever of FULL AF relief.

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62 Replies
oldestnewest
Finvola

Simple answer to your first paragraph is that it is about choice based on a personal, rational decision in my case. Fear and/or subpar health care are not part of my equation.

I am pro choice in all aspects of life and you and everyone else are equally free to exercise your personal choice. I’m glad your choice has been as successful for you as mine has been for me.

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Aufgeblassen

I hate to tell you this, but you could, correction are highly likely being a ticking time bomb, ready to go off any time as you age, and are more prone to falling back into AF.

Good luck.

Aufgeblassen

AF does not go away with band-aid approaches. It is still there, just dormant.

FlapJack

Whilst I personally appreciate the sentiment of your post, I totally disagree with your conclusion. Those of us who have had the benefit of learning from a variety of experts in their field know that an ablation does not cure the causes of AF, it can, and often does prevent symptoms, often for long periods. Of course, you must lead your life in any way you wish but if you moderate your views about drinking you will probably find you will reap the benefits of your treatment for a lot longer.

Again, those who know, say that improvements in lifestyle can provide more benefits than most treatments they can offer and that includes ablation. I’m not having go but your message advocates that having an ablation enables folk to return to a lifestyle which may have been a major contributor to having AF in the first place which is not overly helpful.......

15 likes
Aufgeblassen

What part of 60% of 1st ablation recipients and 85% of 2nd ones NEVER EVER have AF again? If you never, ever get something again in your life, the correct terminology is: CURE.

It is incomprehensible to me that you don't understand that.

1 like
wilsond

It can come back at anytime....look at the posts on here...it is an invasive proceedure which can stiffen the heart, Returning to the lifestyle that undoubtedly contributed to the condition is both unwise and inadvisable.

Quick fixes for Afib do not exist.I accept Aflutter can be best sorted by surgery,.but have reversed my awful symptoms(had to leave my job) and after 18 months of dedicated lifestyle change have come oFF the double ablation planned,as EP said..what would be the point???

Ablation is not lifesaving,it is not a permanent cure,and to be honest its misleading to suggest so,with all due respect

10 likes
wilsond

It is not a cure,it is not lifesaving,it is not permanent,it does not remove stroke risk,it carries risks 4% risk of stroke,cardiac temonade,phrenic nerve damage

. It can be beneficial if you have debilitating symptoms that impact on your life,but if not...no point

What of the above do You not get?!!!lol

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Aufgeblassen

I was in that same boat, when I went 14 mos. 100% AF free w/o having an ablation, and I thought I was in the clear, but was unfortunately not.

1 like
wilsond
wilsond
in reply to FlapJack

Quite agree Flapjack

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FlapJack
FlapJack
in reply to wilsond

Thank you for your kind words Sue, I think our friend just enjoys being controversial......unfortunately for many, AF raises serious issues which impacts on their lives which is why most of us post and reply the way we do to help others.

11 likes
wilsond
wilsond
in reply to FlapJack

Yes indeed....leave it as is? !

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Mikee69
Mikee69
in reply to wilsond

Wish there was a block button.

Do not feed the troll

9 likes
Aufgeblassen

Yes, home remedies are controversial. A plethora of quacks out there hawking them. Nothing controversial about tried & true methods that are an actual cure.

wilsond

Well,all well and good if your symptoms are uncontrolled and impact on your life intolerarbly. I am not a nay sayer against ablation but see it as a last resort if meds and lifestyle do not improve Qol.It is ONLY QOL it is not lifesaving,as my highly respected Ep said to me.If you are able to control episodes with lifestyle or meds...risk outweighs benefits.

Have moved on from daily,sometimes twice...episodes to 1,2 a week at most.

There is no 'cure' for AFib

Ablation scars the heart.,..if its just to make me feel better and I already am...whats the point?

Its personal choice?

3 likes
Aufgeblassen

ANY episodes are NO GOOD, and can easily be eliminated with 1 1/2 days of your time. WHY dilly dick around with it with obsolete treatments?

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wilsond

Because my EP and I agree that I have improved so much and have reduced my meds from daily dose to 'if and when '

...infrequently now..that there is no advantage to me having the proceedure. Professor Osman

My EP, and a well respected consultant discussed this and agreed on this.

Obsolete treatments obviously work for me .

5 likes
CDreamer
CDreamer
in reply to wilsond

So lucky to have such talented people.

The Prof presented very well today - talking about persistent/permanent AF - unfortunately our Aufgeblassen doesn’t seem to grasp that concept and that many people can live with AF - still function & exercise - happily.

4 likes
wilsond
wilsond
in reply to CDreamer

Wish I could have gone but had family occasion

Desanthony

I agree. I am on the waiting list for an ablation and have had two successful cardioversions - the first lasted 11 months+ and I am still in NSR from the second. I got a little blase after the first cv lasted so long and I felt so well after it and didn't continue to seek a more permanent answer such as an ablation. The only thing that worries me about ablation is the recovery.

Aufgeblassen

I literally had no recovery time after both mine. Just went about my business, starting next day. What is blase?

1 like
Desanthony

Unfortunmately there is no accent on the computer so it should have an acute accent over the e it means indifferent to - so indifferent to the obvious fact that the cv would not last.

Thomas45
Thomas45
in reply to Desanthony

There is an Alt code for accented characters. I think, from memory e acute is to hold the Alt key down while keying 0233 on the numerical pad of your keyboard.

You can find the Alt codes by searching on Google or any other search engine.

2 likes
Desanthony

Hope I am as lucky when I get my ablation done.

Aufgeblassen

You likely will be if ablations is all your EP does, and he's done 100s or 1000s of them.

1 like
Desanthony

BTW when in persistent AF I am really not controlled at all and don't get on with most of the meds tried. After about 3 weeks on the beta blockers I would become ill - I would be taken down to a lower dose only for it tohappen again within a month - the only med that worked was lowest dose digoxin but I was only on that for a month before having my first cv. Second CV they put me on amodorone for 3 months 6 weeks before cv and 6 weeks after. For some reason I was OK on this for the short time I was on other than the fact that at my first blood test -on the day of the cv my thyroid function could be seen as impaired. Am hopeful that as stated this should right itself in the coming months.

BobD
BobDVolunteer

I agree up to a point but surely it is important to respect the hard work of the EP and modify those life style choices which you describe which have been shown to be detrimental.

6 likes
Aufgeblassen
Aufgeblassen
in reply to BobD

The ONLY known cause/trigger for AF is BINGE DRINKING. I drink 12-15 DOUBLE mixed drinks per week, but I don't drink them all at once! I have been drinking this much ever since my very 1st AF episode, nearly 5 years ago.

After my last ablation 17 mos. ago, I waited a day after before 1st bottoms up.

1 like
Finvola

I think you make it up as you go along!

The known causes of AF are not limited to binge drinking - do your research before you expound your personal theories. Such disinformation is unhelpful to people who are trying to inform themselves.

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wilsond
wilsond
in reply to Finvola

Yep....agree!

4 likes
jennydog
jennydog
in reply to Finvola

I don't like the taste of alcohol and have not drunk any for over 50 years. I believe that a major trigger for AF is STRESS.

9 likes
Aufgeblassen

If you are "sitting on the fence" about to go into AF whereby it takes very little to cause an onset, you are not living your life fully, being cautious around every corner, with fear of triggering AF. I won't live my life that way! Get cured and you can do whatever the hell you want!

Aufgeblassen

Slight correction - I EXPERIENCE as I go along.

Babyr1996

If binge drinking is the only cause of AF then explain why I have it when I have always been T total!! That puts paid to your theory!! If you cannot back up your comments with a quoted medical fact from a professional then please do not quote at all as it can be very misleading to new people on here especially

Your lifestyle is your choice!

This forum is about helping others and not misleading them

You are entitled to your opinion but please state it is your personal opinion and not fact.

4 likes
Aufgeblassen

Ummm.... OBVIOUSLY I was referring to "man caused" triggers. There are natural ones not well understood nor controllable.

Hylda
Hylda
in reply to Aufgeblassen

I can have an episode doing a crossword without even the benefit of a cup of tea!

Aufgeblassen
Aufgeblassen
in reply to Hylda

My last two episodes (pre-ablation) happened out of the blue in the middle of the afternoon, reclined in my recliner watching TV. I had not had a drop of alcohol either time. All of a sudden I felt it. Hit me like a ton of bricks. Since then, I've been cure of it, 17 months and counting since ablation.

1 like
Hambo444
Hambo444
in reply to BobD

My ep said yeah happy for you to drink alcohol (not binge) as if it creates af then I know my ablation didn't work.

Aufgeblassen

No that is some common sense!

carneuny

Way back in the beginning, now almost 10 years ago now, I totally rejected the proposition of ablation ....for no other reason than I didn't want my heart barbequed! End of!

From 2010 to 2015 I experienced many AF events then I became aware of the vagus nerve. I figured, calm the vagus nerve = calm the heart. I consulted a Nutritionist, changed my diet and have had only one AF event since April 2015. As we speak, my last AF event was February 2018 .... caused by sleeping on my left side.

John

9 likes
HowMyHeartSings

Could you provide some insights into your dietary changes - it’d be really useful as I’ve felt the close connection between gut & heart after various meals. Thanks

2 likes
Aufgeblassen

LOL

Aufgeblassen

No barbecuing involved - get your facts straight.

One who is prone to AF for WHATEVER REASON should get it fixed. The reason matters not - just the fix makes the actual difference. Then you can live your life fully, and however you want.

"To each his own" to those who settle for a partial life.

carneuny

I don't recall asking for your opinion. Further, you clearly aren't across the peculiarities of the Australian/ English language. Very often words and/or phrases in one language or another have different meanings. I was just making a comment based on my own experience.

I am fixed by the way and living my life to the fullest. Anyway, you seem to have a highly inflated, balloon like opinion of your medical worth. Well done you.

6 likes
CDreamer
CDreamer
in reply to carneuny

John - it’s like talking to the hand - nothing gets through. wasting no more time & energy.

6 likes
Tomred
Tomred
in reply to carneuny

hi how do you know sleeping on your left side brought about afib bout i seem to have come across this somewhere before is there any evidence to back this up i sleep on my left side most of the time i will have to try avoiding this for a while point me in right direction please

Aufgeblassen
Aufgeblassen
in reply to Tomred

It is like saying you forgot to brush your teeth before bedtime, and ended up with AF. LOL.

CDreamer

Shame you were not at our Patient Day - where it was clearly explained who may or may not benefit from ablation and that it is a treatment with outcomes which are no better nor worse than drug regimes & therefore purely a personal choice.

I repeat what others have stated, it’s not life saving, it’s not a cure and Lifestyle Changes such as moderating alcohol intake, keeping your BMI to less than 27 have shown to be as effective for many.

Ablation is one option, but not the only option. Please respect the views of others.

I find your posts objectionable in that you insist on repeating yourself and your very blinkered views, showing little or no empathy for others with differing views or who make different choices.

18 likes
Padayn01
Padayn01
in reply to CDreamer

How was patient day CDreamer? Gutted I couldn’t go this year

CDreamer
CDreamer
in reply to Padayn01

It was best yet! See my post following Bob’s.

3 likes
Thomas45
Thomas45
in reply to CDreamer

The former binge drinker lives in Florida.

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opal11uk

Totally agree with Flapjack and Finvola, end of!

3 likes
Goldfish7

I've had 2 x ablations for PAF. The first worsened my PAF in that rather than just having attacks when asleep it started happening throughout the day. The second appears to have stopped the PAF attacks which is great but nearly a year down the line I am still suffering from chest pain, breathlessness, dizziness/faintness on exercising. I also now have periods of rapid heart rate for no reason, get fatigued quickly (often seemingly for no reason), suffer periods from seconds to hours where I get runs of ectopics trigeminy or bigeminy and lose a lot of sleep due to my heart hammering or racing. So it is not a straightforward story for everyone. These symptoms (other than lesser amounts of breathlessness and chest discomfort) appear to be new since the last ablation.

Ablation is not a simple choice or one that guarantees a cure.

2 likes
Aufgeblassen

Rarely it take THREE (3) ablations - plain & simple. Maybe a "better" EP was needed. One should not give up when chances are good to great the next one will be the one.

Goldfish7

You are talking out of your butt so I presume you are bored and trolling - cant you go somewhere else to get your kicks. Your comments are not helpful or accurate.

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CliveP

You seem rather preoccupied with DRINKING.

You realise that alcohol is poison.

It is incomprehensible to me that you don't understand that.

etc.

4 likes
Aufgeblassen
Aufgeblassen
in reply to CliveP

Incorrect! All I said is that it can trigger AF if you binge drink. It is the main thing ANYBODY should avoid, to prevent the only known, avoidable trigger for AF.

How on Earth did you draw such a conclusion?

Highlander51

I agree to a point. I to went for an ablation, unfortunately 9 months later I had another episode. Having said that, I am back on 50mg flecainide, half the dosage I was on before ablation and also a further year on with no recurring bouts. So in my case I still feel my ablation was successful.

Japaholic

I agree, my ablation wasn’t 100% successful BUT I am a damn site better than I was before it. Months between episodes which revert with PIP.

My quality of life is so so much better than before when I was almost suicidal.

For me, that’s what counts, quality of life.

3 likes
Aufgeblassen

Hopefully, with any luck you can beat the odds, because I've found ANY residual AF after an ablation just keeps getting worse.

Like I said with a previous comment, 17 mos. after ablation whereby I was 100% AF free, it came back, was stopped but came back in 2 months, then 1 month, then 2 weeks, until follow-up ablation totally stopped it for 17 months & counting.

Were it to come back ever yet again, I would not hesitate one iota for another ablation, as they are routine at this point, and the time & effort for one is a nit compared to the benefits.

2 likes
RachelAdmin
RachelAdminAdministrator

Following several emails, I am closing this thread to any further comments.

Kind regards

Rachel - AF Association.

10 likes
Aufgeblassen

That's weird.

3 likes
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