I feel sorry for myself tonight so sorry about this.
I cant take alcohol anymore because it will very very likely will lead to an Afib attack. The heat sets me away as does any !! form of excitement that gets the adrenaline going even golf. So no sunny hols no booze and behave myself.
I am taking only 2.5 bisoprolol and my cardiologist seems to just think Afib is nothing 'just avoid fizzy drinks' he tells me.It's only been 16 months since diagnosis and nothing has really changed.
So whinge out from me, sorry. Defo feeling sorry for myself.
I know there are people worse than me but please tell me it gets better.I am trying to help myself with weight loss and magnesium supplements.And the people on this great forum.
Rod
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Hi Rod, sorry you feel so low. I think we all here understand. What I would say is that cardiologists are not always sympathetic about AF as they are generally plumbers not electricians so if you are still not being controlled maybe now is a good time to ask to see and electrophysiologist who DOES understand AF. Ask your GP to refer you as is your right or if you are not getting their co-oparation then maybe invest a couple of hundred pounds on a private consultation.
You're absolutely right there! I suppose I (and I know I'm fortunate on this) have been used to, both with myself and others illnesses that appear, can diagnosed and (again I know I'm fortunate in this) can be treated/managed or at least are some kind of constant e.g. my mother had a heart attack but after treatment was eventually OK ?, I have osteoarthritis which, though not pleasant has some range of constancy to it. But AFIB!!!!! I know it is NOT life-threatening, but it is, as BobD always says, definitely a quality of life issue - and it seems to like playing the most annoying game of hide and seek!
I was diagnosed a year and a half ago and over that time I have gone from episodes once a month to twice a week to almost every day. (I'm on Amiodarone which seems to be successfully limiting the duration but not frequency of episodes) also, I decided to take a week off work as I was totally exhausted working as much as I could around my AFIB episodes and the resulting tiredness. Did I have an afib episode last night? No! ( though maybe that in itself tells me something!)
I hope your AFIB symptoms improve soon and that your consultations with the doc are helpful.
This forum is invaluable for moral support, good info and a good list of questions to ask your cardiologist.
In all things life and medical, the adage that we're all different is worth bearing in mind. With AFIB- multiply that by at least 10! Though thanks to this forum, you will probably find someone who shares your experience.
Interesting to hear that the amiodarone didn't work at preventing episodes for you as it was one of the options suggested for me to try when flecainide taken regularly failed to prevent episodes. I've gone back to just taking it (sometimes with added bisoprolol) as a PIP when it works brilliantly (for me)- last episode over in under one and a half hours. I was also having two episodes a week but much less now as I am working on triggers- hoping that remaining calm and not rushing or getting upset about things will stop adrenalin rushes that seem to be the only remaining triggers!
Sorry about your arthritis- the paroxysmal AF is my only health problem and I guess having got to 75 something has got to give, so I guess I'm fortunate!
Thanks, SandiBee - I suppose just one more example of different people reacting differently to the same medicine. Glad to hear you finally found a 'chemical and what O suppose they call 'lifestyle' solution (not so much rushing etc) that has greatly worked for you. Still waiting for that to happen, but I live in hope.
The osteo is taking a back seat atctge moment until the AFIB is less problematic.
Hi Rod, many of us understand where you are coming from and the good news is that if AF is adversely affecting your quality of life, there are things which can be done which should improve things for you. Firstly, you would be well advised to find out as much as you can about AF and how it impacts on you as this will enable you to have more meaningful conversations with doctors. It means reading all the information available on the AF Association webpages especially the topics which relate to your condition. It will tell you about the benefits of seeing an Electrophysiologist (a Cardiologist who specialises in arrhythmias) as this is the best way to establish a treatment plan specific to your needs. Unfortunately, all this rarely just happens, the onus is on you to ask your GP for a referral and this may take time so if it’s possible, consider a private appointment. The problem is that many GP’s and some Cardiologists tend not to consider AF as a serious condition and often do not fully understand the problems it can cause some patients. Many manage very well once their AF is under control with medication but it is generally a progressive condition so trying to be ahead of the condition is no bad thing. The alternative is to let the condition take control of you but I get the impression you are not keen for that to happen! We all need a good whinge sometimes but trying to take the initiative is much more rewarding......hope this helps, good luck.....
As others said, you need to arm yourself with more information and get referred to an EP. Bisoprolol does not really stop AF but slows the heart rate down so it's not so fast. There are other meds to be tried and that may not make you feel so bad. Also consider ablation. I had one in 2013 and so far no more AF.
If Bisoprolol is making your chest tight you shouldn't be taking it. As my GP said, it is all very well when you are well but what happens when you get flu etc? I take Diltiazem instead - cardiologists say Bisoprolol is the best thing to take but not if it makes you breathless!
Your cardiologist is uncaring about you QOL so the sooner you see someone else the better, best wishes 💜
Yeah it’s damned miserable at first and I couldn’t stop thinking about the AF.... coupled with being in AF all the time.... it was awful.
The good thing is: it does get better, your mindset and the AF.... but as everyone informs me here, over and over, there’s no cure for AF. However I had a cardioversion last January and I’m still going strong... NSR! Despite a relationship breakdown and moving house!
So yes, there are good times ahead.
The no alcohol is tough. At first I hated that. I’ve got used to it now.... just takes time.
I have allowed myself a bit of indulgence too.... why not? Not like before and of course, with caution at first. It’s not the same no, things will never be the same after AF but isn’t that true of a lot of situations in life?
Music.... listen to music.... chill and wait for better times, they always come.
Keep going back to your gp and cardiologist and tell them your quality of life is affected. Bisoprolol did nothing to prevent my PAF and now I am on daily flecanide which is helping.
It will get better if you have the right treatment and getting the right treatment is not as easy as it should be (by far). Right now your heart is irritated (its unlikely if anyone knows why) and in this state it will be susceptible to triggers like alcohol, caffeine, heat, fizzy drinks (best stay off the fizzy drinks anyway) and many more. Best get EP assessment and treatment (Meds/ablation), it may take some time so the sooner you get to see an EP the sooner you will get better. Took me years to get it sorted because I did not push for treatment (did not know how well I could get with the right treatment) - won't take that long again.
Some self help can help, magnesium, potassium iron are all good but don't forget drink plenty of water especially as soon as you get up in the morning. Remember self help is a catch all and may take several weeks/months to be of significant benefit.
Get yourself a gentle exercise plan going, nothing too heavy, try walking a daily mile at first, so you will need some good water proofs, or join the local gym,?
Me too.. walk 5 miles run for the bus all is ok then for no reason sitting down and one starts! I think mine are all vagally stimulated as usually when i turn my head or bending. For me the worst aspect of them is never knowing when you are going to have one. This forum has helped me a lot
Hi Rod, I am no expert so you are probably better googling it but from what i understand the vagus nerve runs from brain to heart and amongst other things can stimulate heart. It affects the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems. It doesnt start a palpitation every time I turn my head or bend down so there must be a contributary factor, ie too much sugar, chocolate or not enough to eat or drink. Cardiologist told me that part of my heart is over sensitive to stimulation but whether this is true i do not know. Everyone has different symptoms and i find doctors do not help much
Ah! The bending over- thanks for the info on that and the vagal nerve- guess that is why occasionally emptying the dishwasher started an episode- shall have to do that extremely calmly in future and bend at the knees more! Fortunately, turning my head is fine which I have to do regularly in exercises to overcome effects of whiplash from many years back when a kidney specialist drove into the back of my car at a roundabout!
Yeah don't feel sorry, I had to give up golf too, what a shame. Have a slight cervical sclerosis and thats just not good with an iron 5 swing. And the exitment indeed would most likely bring on Afib. So yeah, no booze, no golf and yeah it can get better. At least we have one certainty ..... Life is the only thing we can't get out alive -)
Not everyone tolerates Bisoprolol. You could ask your doctor if you could change to something else eg Nebivolol and see if that gives you more energy. (It may take your body two or three weeks to adjust, so be patient)
I’m a bit late in getting to your post, Rod. I’m fairly sure each one of us has experienced the low which you had last night. It’s the unpredictable nature of this damned condition which makes it so hard to plan and deal with.
It’s important not to let it fence you in and remove all options for an enjoyable life. By that I mean sunny hols don’t have to be hot, alcoholic drinks can be replaced with interesting concoctions, adrenaline-raising activities can be . . er, modified and you can seek a sensible cardiologist or better, an EP who knows more than fizzy drinks.
Go for the weight loss and yes, things do get better - not like before AF just differently better. A proper treatment plan from a trusted physician is the first step. Bisoprolol was a misery for me too but you need someone who is prepared to listen to and address your concerns and advise on the best way forward.
Agreed, not everyone tolerates bisoprolol (or any of the beta blockers) very well; they can drain you of energy and slow your metabolism. However, as relates to alcohol, not everyone finds alcohol to be a "trigger" for afib, taken in moderation. As you learn more about afib, you will learn what you can and can't tolerate. Don't despair; learn all you can about the condition and you will eventually settle in to acceptance and the realization that it's not the end of the lifestyle you enjoy. There is life after afib! You'll see.
Hi, it is hard to give up life’s little pleasures. Took me a year to accept that wine just makes me feel unwell, so not worth it. Finding the things that trigger or increase frequency of AF is a big help, for me it was fructose but stress at work was the worst of all. Good luck with learning how to manage your AF and with getting to the EP.
Yes. I agree Bonnie. Once I started on bisoprolol nine years ago, I found that wine just didn’t have a good effect at all. I only ever really enjoyed a small glass occasionally, but it actually made me feel not too good after that. Rather than the pleasant relaxed glow I had before after a small glass. So I just stopped. Now and again I will taste a mouthful of champagne if we are celebrating, but that’s it. It just doesn’t go with bisoprolol so is best avoided. 🤷♀️
I was told to reduce my alcohol intake too on diagnosis and as I only had a glass of wine with dinner etc, it was easy to give up entirely- (my daughter doesn't drink by choice and has a full life) I just have the odd sip if my husband says something is particularly nice- if it is one of your triggers you can congratulate yourself on preventing episodes as with giving up coffee and proper tea (which I'd mostly done before diagnosis anyway).
I have found my only remaining trigger is rushing - the extra adrenalin rush - so am having a real try at taking things easy and gently with calm breathing and meditation and hope it works!
Of course we are all different- the lowest dose of bisoprolol 1.25mg brought my heart rate down too low - of course there are other drugs but they haven't been offered.
I just take flecainide (and sometimes bisoprolol) if/when I have an episode and they are over quickly- last time under one and a half hours so can't have done much damage. I've never been overweight but I do use a magnesium spray when I remember. Hope you soon feel better about things- you have a good attitude to trying to help yourself and we'll support you as best we can, here.
Alcohol makes you dehydrated, and that is one of the triggers for Afib. The other is too much sugar per day. Here is the data - give it a try:
-----------------------------------
After 9 years of trying different foods and logging EVERYTHING I ate, I found sugar (and to a lesser degree, salt – i.e. dehydration) was triggering my Afib. Doctors don't want to hear this - there is no money in telling patients to eat less sugar. Each person has a different sugar threshold - and it changes as you get older, so you need to count every gram of sugar you eat every day (including natural sugars in fruits, etc.). My tolerance level was 190 grams of sugar per day 8 years ago, 85 grams a year and a half ago, and 60 grams today, so AFIB episodes are more frequent and last longer. If you keep your intake of sugar below your threshold level your AFIB will not happen again (easier said than done of course). It's not the food - it's the sugar (or salt - see below) IN the food that's causing your problems. Try it and you will see - should only take you 1 or 2 months of trial-and-error to find your threshold level. And for the record - ALL sugars are treated the same (honey, refined, agave, natural sugars in fruits, etc.). I successfully triggered AFIB by eating a bunch of plums and peaches one day just to test it out. In addition, I have noticed that moderate exercise (7-mile bike ride or 5-mile hike in the park) often puts my Afib heart back in to normal rhythm a couple hours later. Don’t know why – perhaps you burn off the excess sugars in your blood/muscles or sweat out excess salt??
Also, in addition to sugar, if you are dehydrated - this will trigger AFIB as well. It seems (but I have no proof of this) that a little uptick of salt in your blood is being treated the same as an uptick of sugar - both cause AFIB episodes. (I’m not a doctor – it may be the sugar in your muscles/organs and not in your blood, don’t know). In any case you have to keep hydrated, and not eat too much salt. The root problem is that our bodies are not processing sugar/salt properly and no doctor knows why, but the AFIB seems to be a symptom of this and not the primary problem, but medicine is not advanced enough to know the core reason that causes AFIB at this time. You can have a healthy heart and still have Afib – something inside us is triggering it when we eat too much sugar or get (even a little) dehydrated. Find out the core reason for this and you will be a millionaire and make the cover of Time Magazine! Good luck! - Rick Hyer
Nice work keeping accurate records of sugar intake versus onset of Afib. I have also noticed for myself that strenuous exercise, eg, walking up a steep mountain trail, would terminate an episode of Afib. I have asked EPs and cardiologists for an explanation but so far no one has suggested a reason for this. Interesting that in your experience exercise puts your hear back into NSR.
As you, I have noticed that Doctors are worthless when they need to think outside what is already proven, verified and accepted in the medical world. I suppose they need to do this to keep away from lawsuits from educated guessing and trying anything new. I guess that is left up to us, and researchers. Good Luck - and have fun!
Pure speculation: the higher level of exercise and so faster heart rate associated with riding your bike vs playing golf terminates Afib. Would this be because of metabolic/biochemical effects or something more esoteric that forces the electrically active cells of the heart into normal sinus rhythm. For instance like locking up the frequencies of independent oscillators, (electrically active cardiac cells).
I have not found the right people to investigate the relationship between excercise and return from Afib to NSR in some people. But I think it is a good topic to explore.
Tom
Yes, It does get better but you need the right help.
You need to see an EP as others have said, then you can get on the road to recovery with a treatment plan.
As for alcohol, do you know for sure that it is a trigger? It isn't one of mine, but I do avoid anything with a high sulphite count (white wine, cider,champagne) but I do have an occasional G+T or half/pint of beer with no issue
My doctor has just started me on Hawthorn tablets...Cardiplant brand name, instead of more bisoprolol. Its early days yet but it feels as if my heart is calmer already. Worth a thought....
AS well as the good advice you've already had, I can recommend looking at your lifestyle and diet. For me, AF came at the end of a long string of apparently unrelated conditions over 10 years. I worked out (no thanks to GP) that the there was a common factor: all were inflammatory conditions and most were autoimmune.
So I changed my diet: no grains especially wheat as these are high in Omega 6 (which is pro-inflammatory) and increasing foodstuffs high in Omega 3 (anti-inflammatory). Also, reduced sugar (inflammatory), reduced but not eliminated meat and dairy, and made sure these are from good sources, eg only pasture fed red meat, organic dairy and poultry, wild game like venison and rabbits etc. This is because intensively reared animals are usually fed on grains etc. I also worked with a nutritionist who helped me identify what I should avoid. I supplement with magnesium, Omega 3 and co-Q10 and vit D.
As far as conventional treatment is concern I have to have rivaroxaban, plus a low dose of Bisoprolol. (I reduced the amount prescribed, because my heart rate doesn't go above 100 even during an episode, and is around 60 in NSR; when the dose was higher, heart rate dropped to 40 at night, which I wasn't happy with). I also have to have a low dose of levothyroxine as my thyroid function is borderline hypo.
At worst, I was having episodes 2 or 3 times a week, some very bad and all I could do was lie down, and always tired afterwards. Three years and 2 ablations later, I am now having a mild episode maybe once a month, usually when I exceed my alcohol limit of one glass of wine!
Key point: how are your teeth and gums? I discovered a connection with AF by accident, when the dentist discovered I had a chronic infection in the root of one tooth and I had root canal treatment to get rid of the infection, that my heart and general health was much improved. When two infected teeth were removed and all oral inflammation thereby stopped, the frequency of PAF episodes went right down. I have learned that oral and heart health are intimately linked, and there is lots of evidence for this, but no-one tells you!
I found it important psychologically to do as much as I could personally to take control of the situation: to try and understand what is going on in my body and DO something about it; find EPs and other practitioners who are interested in the condition or in other causes of autoimmunity and inflammation, and keep in touch with this forum.
Really good info, there, Hilary. Alcohol makes you dehydrated, and that is a trigger for Afib. Here is a summary of what I found to be triggering Afib:
------------------------------------------
After 9 years of trying different foods and logging EVERYTHING I ate, I found sugar (and to a lesser degree, salt – i.e. dehydration) was triggering my Afib. Doctors don't want to hear this - there is no money in telling patients to eat less sugar. Each person has a different sugar threshold - and it changes as you get older, so you need to count every gram of sugar you eat every day (including natural sugars in fruits, etc.). My tolerance level was 190 grams of sugar per day 8 years ago, 85 grams a year and a half ago, and 60 grams today, so AFIB episodes are more frequent and last longer. If you keep your intake of sugar below your threshold level your AFIB will not happen again (easier said than done of course). It's not the food - it's the sugar (or salt - see below) IN the food that's causing your problems. Try it and you will see - should only take you 1 or 2 months of trial-and-error to find your threshold level. And for the record - ALL sugars are treated the same (honey, refined, agave, natural sugars in fruits, etc.). I successfully triggered AFIB by eating a bunch of plums and peaches one day just to test it out. In addition, I have noticed that moderate exercise (7-mile bike ride or 5-mile hike in the park) often puts my Afib heart back in to normal rhythm a couple hours later. Don’t know why – perhaps you burn off the excess sugars in your blood/muscles or sweat out excess salt??
Also, in addition to sugar, if you are dehydrated - this will trigger AFIB as well. It seems (but I have no proof of this) that a little uptick of salt in your blood is being treated the same as an uptick of sugar - both cause AFIB episodes. (I’m not a doctor – it may be the sugar in your muscles/organs and not in your blood, don’t know). In any case you have to keep hydrated, and not eat too much salt. The root problem is that our bodies are not processing sugar/salt properly and no doctor knows why, but the AFIB seems to be a symptom of this and not the primary problem, but medicine is not advanced enough to know the core reason that causes AFIB at this time. You can have a healthy heart and still have Afib – something inside us is triggering it when we eat too much sugar or get (even a little) dehydrated. Find out the core reason for this and you will be a millionaire and make the cover of Time Magazine! Good luck! - Rick Hyer
My teeth and gums are good and no inflammatory condition that I know of.
I was previously very healthy. But!! I was under incredible stress , drinking too much wine and 3 stone overweight.
Strange thing is that my first turn followed me lifting too much when house moving and feeling a rip in my chest. Did not think about it but a week later played golf and bang Afib??
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