Natural Anticoagulants

I have just seen my EP who diagnoses persistent AF with no other heart or health problems except for a score of Chads2 (age 81) and some tiredness. Heart rate is normal and I take plenty of exercise without ill effect, so betablockers are not prescribed. He does recommend Apixaban (2x5mgs) because of the Chads score.

What are the views here on natural alternatives to prescription anticoagulants? For example, Vitamin E, Nattokinase, garlic (not irradiated or roasted) and exercise are all claimed to assist in blood thinning. I am currently taking Vit E, Omega 3, CO Q10 and magnesium; I am considering potassium. I find acupuncture helpful in maintaining energy levels. As you will gather, I prefer the natural route whilst being extremely lucky that my problems are pretty minor compared with many out there.

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  • I also wanted to use food/spices and oils in place of anticoagulants but was told that wouldn't work, presumably because you can't standardise it, although I wasn't given a scientific reason. Like you I also want to avoid using pharmaceutical anticoagulants.

  • Hi Handybe

    It is of course your choice, but you need to effectively ensure that your blood coagulates roughly 2.5 times slower than "normal" and that is what the drugs such as Apixiban and of course warfarin are designed to do. Warfarin by way of blood tests to balance it and Apixiban without.

    There are natural anti-coagulants, but their efficacy and certainly dosage has never been the subject of any peer reviewed medical study, and of course as with many natural substitutes the amount of active chemical in the product can vary wildly depending on weather or climate or even time of year.

    For me, that makes natural anti-coagulation not possible, not only would I not know if I was anti coagulated, but potentially worse, I would have no idea if I was over anti-coagulated and potentially a bleed risk.

    I would also point out that warfarin is a "natural anti-coagulant" the active ingredient was discovered when cows were eating rotten clover in their hay and subsequently dying of bleeds, and the active ingredient "coumarin" was eventually isolated. I would not suggest that you eat rotten clover, but the drug warfarin is simply a cleaned up and known dosage of exactly the same drug. Not sure at what point that becomes no longer "natural"

    I wish you health and a good decision

    Be well

    Ian

  • Well you learn something every day Ian.

  • Thanks Ian, interested to read about the clover. For the Foodies out there, clover grows back when grass is grown organically and raw unpasteurised milk is getting much more popular because of the health benefits - one of which could be a small dose of anti-coagulant. I have been drinking raw milk for years, when I can get it.

  • This is a very dangerous idea

    . In order to protect from stroke and at the same time avoid any serious bleed you need proper controlled anti-coagulation not a vague idea and a maybe I will be OK. I'm afraid I struggle to understand reluctance to take whatever makes your life better or longer whilst being quite happy to take uncontrolled supplements which may or may not be appropriate . It all seems rather cavalier and risky to me.

    There have been several members here who have not taken anticoagulants and gone on to have TIA or full blown strokes and as we know AF related stroke is amongst the worst and least recoverable. Obviously it is a personal choice.

  • There has been some research quoted by one of the York Cardiology videos that without any other comorbidities the stroke risk is extremely small but I think that was done with ages under 60. I use the threat of a stroke to make sure I follow a better diet (e.g. more water, less sugar & gluten, more regular exercise, less heavy meals). I think a decision also depends on how robust you think your body is for dealing with the anti-coagulant. I know for one my stomach is a weak area and I will be postponing taking anything more as long as I can. I expect a good Naturopath will be able to help you. Good luck.

  • It has to be your own decision but get your information from both sides of the argument not just from the "anti-coag bullies" out there.

    I'm 68, had flutter and a/f for over 13 years. Just stopped asprin and started apixaban only because it's required before ablation. I'll be off it as soon as possible. Back to asprin and natural healthy stuff. Chads 1 point because of age. Bleed risk higher, no contest. I hike up mountains and by definition sometimes fall down them and get cuts. I do other potentially bloody things, like climbing trees, playing on bikes and getting tripped up playing with grandchildren. I don't just want to be alive, I want to live a life. Not be medicated, not be worried about injuring myself.

    Oh, the stroke risk. My bucket list is complete, I'm on repeats now. My aim is to fall of the cliff of life, not to drift slowly downhill. Instructions are in case of a bad stroke, no treatment. hopefully quick pneumonia.

    I hope this post encourages a few more posts in support of people who don't want to poison themselves.

    PS Re bucket lists. If you do the Great Wall of China make sure you come down on the taboggan ride. Not if you are on anti-coags though, you might hurt yourself.

  • Hi Ken, I support everything that you said about anticoagulant, When I was diagnosed with Paroximal A f, I was recommended to start taking it, same as you , no health issues what so ever only well controlled asthma, told my Doc I wanted time to think about it, pleased I did, I slipped in the dark on a slug, went back over and took the full force on the back of my head, all OK but I had concussion for two months which was very frightening, Doc said thank goodness you didn't the anticoagulation. I have had 3 A F episodes since it was diagnosed 7 months ago , each one lasting a hour and back into sinus rhythm myself, maybe in the future I will take it if the situation gets worse but for now the risk of them out ways the benefit but then that is my story and we are all differant with the degree of Af and our thinking.

  • I like your outlook on life and anticoagulation bullies, lol. Im on an a fib facebook page and there are ablation bullies too. Bottom line is it is our decision and there are no guanantees in anything besides taxes and death😉

  • Carnt agree with you more, I am new to P AF, went to A E , told me I was in Af I'd never heard of it, lasted an hour and stopped itself, I was told to see my GP, did have 48 hr tape and an echo, all came back normal except for 2 episodes on the tape the longest lasting 20 seconds, went to see my GP and he prescribed Apaxiban , told him I wanted to think about it which I did, my argument was that the risk factor of taking it outwayed the benefit, maybe people like us Hoski question things too much. I've never seen a Cardiologist yet, I was told by letter that my GP could handle it, I'm going to see him this week and if he won't listen to me I'm going to ask if I can see one of these E P People you all keep talking about, see if I can get some sense out of him, feel like I was diagnosed and shoved out the door. 😧

  • Very good , thanks for that. My gastroenterologist Said to me heart specialists would put blood thinners in the water supply if they could. I just wonder what they might discover about long term affects of these modern anticoagulant. I am on pradaxa, and I even find the smell of the capsules disgusting.

  • Who knows, it's a mind field out there, you need somebody you can trust problem with me is I haven't found one yet. My mother died recently and I didn't know untill I read the death certificate that she also had AF ( Thanks Mam ) Af didn't kill her Old Age did, she was 97 and was fit as a lop, she was just too old to live any longer, Not bad eh. 😁

  • I am happy to see that there is someone who prefers alternative therapy, because I am very scared to take anticoagulants (age 76), and I live in Croatia (Zagreb). I woulod very much appreciate if you would tell me what quantities on each mentioned supplement do you take? I had my AF in March this year and non. untill now. I live an active life and eat healthy food. I thank you in advance and wish all the best in your future life.

    Yours 6-7-70 (e mail: vanja.kraljev@gmail.com

  • keep you cholesterol down too if possible. Plant sterols are effective.

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