Warning on Alternative Therapies.

[Mike11]

We quite often see posts here from people seeking alternative therapies to the admittedly harsh effects of the drugs many of us need to take for our heart conditions. Perhaps this article will warn people to check any such products they propose to take with their cardiologist or EP first.

bbc.co.uk/news/health-37572771

[Finvola]

Interesting article Mike - thank you for posting the link.

I took vitamin D tablets for three months in our 'summer' but stopped as I noticed breathlessness and fatigue seemed to be getting worse - whether those symptoms now return remains to be seen.

[ultramarine]

Its a good link and advice, but I don't think it applies to adults on this site, who have Arrhythmia and not Autism.

[rothwell]

Absolutely nothing to do with Afib so why post it?

[Mike11 in reply to rothwell]

As a general warning to people who take alternative remedies without realising the risks of course. These ill-informed parents almost killed their child and it would probably be easier to kill yourself by ignoring medical advice.

[rothwell in reply to Mike11]

There is ,of course, no mention of the success of alternative remedies as the big drug companies certainly wont fund research ...no financial gain in that! Also doctors just find it so much easier to hand out prescriptions but just look on the website for the dangers posed by the new blood thinners....plenty of info on the dangers of taking them and the pending lawsuits. Afib poses risks but so do the medications. Its up to the individual to research and assess.

[Mike11 in reply to rothwell]

I've found my GP and consultants very thorough in discussing all the available options and that's what everyone should insist upon. By all means research alternatives BUT THEN DISCUSS IT WITH YOUR DOCTOR. They don't spend 10 years or more training for nothing.

[rothwell in reply to Mike11]

Well of course its OK to discuss it with your doctor if you have faith in the medical profession and firmly believe that they are not at all influenced by Big Pharma and their financial inducements to dole out medication. Watch The Doctor who Gave up Drugs on catchup if you can ..BBC.....fascinating! Doctors are taught that the only response to a medical problem is a drug in their training ....hence the phenomenal cost to the NHS of so many unnecessary medications.

[Mike11 in reply to rothwell]

I saw that programme live and it was interesting, However I do not accept that UK doctors are influenced by pharma companies at all - indeed doing so could get them struck off. But I accept such practices may occur in other countries quite legally.

But we do see a lot of hazardous suggestions on this forum. A while back someone was promoting aspirin as a natural anticoagulant (it isn't) whilst knocking warfarin which is also derived from a natural source.

[ILowe in reply to Mike11]

You say: I do not accept that UK doctors are influenced by pharma companies at all - indeed doing so could get them struck off.

May I suggest that you kindly reconsider this statement in the light of some evidence? May I suggest as a starting point that excellent book by Ben Goldacre called "Big Pharma: how drug companies mislead doctors and harm patients". It is very readable, and well documented.

[Mike11 in reply to ILowe]

Sorry but no I don't accept your statement. In fact Ben Goldacre has actually been highly critical of alternative therepies, and was one of the keys to exposing of the anti-immunisation fad that swept the UK some years ago. The book you reference pointed out that pharma companies make claims not supported by evidence - this is not the same as making financial inducements to doctors which the other respondent accused doctors of doing and is a practice I still reject as happening in the UK.

[ILowe in reply to Mike11]

p245. "The pharmaceutical industry overall spends about twice as much on marketing and promotion as it does on research and development:

p279. "...free drug company treats at the weekly lunchtime team meeting"

p281 paid visits to conferences

p287ff Ghostwriters, furthering the careers of doctor researchers

p331 "Propublica, the US non-profit investigative journalism foundation has done an astonishing piece of work with its Dollars for Docs campaign, creating a huge, publicly accessible database of payments made to doctors". Goldacre goes on to explain what happens in UK.

And then there are the stacking of many of the so called guidelines committees with those favourable to the use of medicines. It sure makes it hard to decide, for doctor and patient. But, as I learned early in my career, we are all biased. But we must declare our biases and take active steps to counteract them. Declare conflicts of interest, so others can decide.

[Mike11 in reply to ILowe]

I'm afraid 'marketing is twice R&D' is an urban myth that has become a 'fact' with repitition rather than actual study. If you look at almost any pharma accounts in detail, you'll see they are about equal. However much of this marketing budget is due to the rather unique (and utterly insane) American way of selling drugs where the patient asks the doctor for a particular brand, and so this has to be supported by hugely expensive TV ad campaigns.

And indeed all your other points all refer to the USA as well - UK doctors are not allowed to accept or do any of these things. I didn't say doctors worldwide weren't corruptable, just those in the UK who I believe are both the best in the world, and the most honest and hard-working.

[ILowe in reply to Mike11]

Is marketing budget 2x research or equal to research. I would have to look more to see which was right. Either way, the marketing budget is huge.

Goldacre is a British doctor. He talks about free food, conferencing, and Ghostwriters.

p333ff he presents the problems with the British ABPI code of practice, that means drug companies must declare how much they have paid doctors for their services: this includes speakers'fees, consultancies, advisory board memberships and sponsorship for attending meetings. The main problem he says is that we know it is happening, but we are not allowed to see the detail.

There is also the problem of the powerful guidelines committees, supposedly independent, being stacked with members favourable to the use of drugs.

[seasider18 in reply to rothwell]

But he didn't give AF sufferers an alternative.

[Polski in reply to Mike11]

But that '10 years' of training doesn't include knowledge about supplements, apart from such mantras as 'eat a balanced diet'! So they know little about whether a particular supplement will help or hinder a particular problem. The pharmacist may be better informed, but often the information just doesn't exist because of lack of research. In my experience doctors are more likely to say 'No that won't help' on the basis of their ignorance and prejudice, than on the basis of any actual information. Of course we should check, in case their are known concerns, but don't be put off by a doctor's negative attitude. You may be missing out on the very things that could help - but always read round the internet, take advice from the doctors out there who do have some understanding, always start on the lowest dose and don't feel obliged to increase it.

[seasider18 in reply to rothwell]

Lawsuits? That will be in America where it s much easier to do.

[cali111 in reply to Mike11]

My son is autistic and I can assure anybody that this is not curable. He was born with it and he is now 33 and lives with me and each day is a teaching day. He is nearly there to be able to live independently which is a blessing - I can`t live forever!