Advanced Prostate Cancer

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Short Documentary about Death with Dignity

I wanted to post this for those interested in or considering Death with Dignity. I am thinking about this option for myself and beginning to research it since I'm am running out of treatment options and don't want to try doing it at the last minute when I might not be able to.

Ralph is doing it before things really go downhill for him, which I think is smart because waiting too long can mean being unable to pursue this option and enduring more suffering than necessary.

Keep in mind that although he "looks good" in the documentary, he only has a couple months to live according to his doctors and is already experiencing a lot of pain.

This is controversial and I know some will disagree with this approach, so I suggest not watching it if you feel that way. I'm posting this for those interested.

youtube.com/watch?v=esVf6Md...

Written by

EdBacon

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102 Replies

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tango6527 days ago

Thanks for posting. I agreed it should be a possibility to consider if one lives in a place where this option is allowed.

EdBacon in reply to tango6527 days ago

Thanks. Yes, it's more difficult but still possible to do if you don't live somewhere that allows it. There are a few countries in Europe that allow it only for residents and Switzerland that also allows it for non-residents. It's allowed in a few other countries including the US (11 states currently) In the US, Oregon no longer will enforce a residency requirement so it's also possible to travel there if you can.

gsun in reply to EdBacon26 days ago

It's available in Canada.

mrscruffy27 days ago

Not available in my state but I have a friend that will end my pain when the time comes. I have nothing but respect for him taking on this chore for me

maggiedrum in reply to mrscruffy26 days ago

It is not clear how your friend would help you. I have asked my spouse to do so but she says that she would not be able to do it. It may be a crime to assist in this manner without going through the legal process and without your state having made it "legal". I have told my wife I would want her to make sure that I get it but it makes her extremely nervous. She was for all intents and purposes the "guardian" of a close friend, who was very religious by the way, who had a terminal cancer. This close friend had gone through chemo once and was adamant about not doing anything like that again. She did not do Death with Dignity but she had an Advance Directive stating that she did not want any medical intervention should she get in a critical state. She did pass shortly after this and my wife was sad but glad that she was able to let her go in peace.

mrscruffy in reply to maggiedrum26 days ago

Without admitting guilt of any kind, I have seen it done twice. Each person wanting to participate gives a dose of morphine. Peaceful death. The one thing readily available to terminal patient is pain killers. I have mine in my safe. Terminal patients are not subject to autopsies

EdBacon in reply to mrscruffy26 days ago

A lot of people have the means without even realizing it.

mrscruffy in reply to EdBacon26 days ago

I contemplated a pillow with my mom, I felt it my duty as the oldest child. Hospice nurse told me about using medication

middlejoel27 days ago

I live in California. A couple of years ago, I created an Adbance Directive. Hopefully, I won't have to use like Ralph did.

EdBacon in reply to middlejoel27 days ago

Thanks, glad to hear to have good options available.

Adlon5727 days ago

Not available in UK, I've asked before, I wish when I go it could be done with dignity like that keeping the quality of life as long as possible. All the best Ralph👍

EdBacon in reply to Adlon5727 days ago

The UK has the most people who go to Switzerland for this.

Adlon57 in reply to EdBacon24 days ago

My last straw a GP not my regular doctor inspected my deformed chest Pectus Carinatum, whom I had gone to see, about breathlessness, I had done too much gardening [trimming two cherry trees] he pushed a rib, almost killed me. I ironically have a good friend, if not my best, living in Dublin a retired Swiss nurse! Seriously a holiday in Switzerland is imminent! I have been on HU before about Euthanasia, not many replies as far as that was concerned! My main concern is letting my family know how serious my health is, I live by myself!🥴

EdBacon in reply to Adlon5724 days ago

Sadly, it's not discussed much, here or anywhere else. Makes it hard to get information. I was thinking today about how I fully accept death, but do not and will not accept that I will have to suffer. I will do everything thing in my power to keep that from happening.

Adlon57 in reply to EdBacon23 days ago

Sizing up trying to get as much quality time from the expected time left. I don't want to lie in bed, with wires and tubes in me looking at relatives and friends peaking down at me, if I could get a couple of weeks 'enjoying' myself then ......that would suit me just fine, and in effect relatives and friends ?

Adlon57 in reply to Adlon5721 days ago

Unfortunately fast running out of quality time, two doctors in the last month, "nothing more can be done for you!"

Huzzah127 days ago

Yes, unfortunately, I recently had to put down the best dog I have ever known. We knew the diagnosis and what was going to happen. We were very aware of every action and when he was was in pain. We could have gotten a few extra weeks with him with zero QOL for him but we were able to call the travel vet who came to our home - it was very peaceful for us all. Afterwards, my wife and I both looked at each other and wondered why this option wasn't available for us humans in Georgia.

EdBacon in reply to Huzzah127 days ago

Yeah, it's amazing that we make people suffer through a "natural death" when we would probably be prosecuted for animal cruelty for doing that to our pets. It's really absurd.

I'm not looking forward to going through what could be months more of suffering. Much of my time and energy over the last 3 months has been devoted toward trying to manage pain and have some sort of QOL. It's gotten better for me temporarily with what will likely be my last treatment option. Last time my treatment failed my cancer took off like a rocket from hell, PSA went from 63 to 248 in just 7 weeks. It was a preview for me.

It shouldn't be this way, but the option is available to everyone if you can travel. Right now, I'm looking into doing it in Switzerland even though my state has it. Anyone can do it there, regardless of where your residence is. The state of Oregon is also an option.

jtspitfire27 days ago

What a compelling and compassionate video. Thanks for sharing.

EdBacon in reply to jtspitfire27 days ago

Thanks. It's really helped me to watch it since I'm likely headed down that path.

noahware27 days ago

Another option (legal in all states), which I have mentioned in passing to my grown children and will discuss in greater detail with them soon, is VSED: Voluntarily Stopping Eating and Drinking.

endoflifechoicesny.org/educ...

pakb in reply to noahware27 days ago

My grandfather chose this. His Pca metastasized after almost 30 years of being contained. He had been on lupron for 25 years. He was 88 and decided he'd had a great life- met 7 great grandchildren- and didn't want to go through anymore treatments. It was a peaceful death.

noahware in reply to pakb26 days ago

I wish we had known of this option for both my mother's and father's deaths from cancer. I can't say for sure that either would have chosen it, but there is no harm in knowing about it and discussing it.

Did your grandfather have family acting as caregivers in the final days? How long was the process for him, from initiation to death?

The thought of "death by dehydration" sounds horrible but apparently if well-managed it is not a bad way to go. (And the closer you already are to the end, the easier.)

pakb in reply to noahware26 days ago

It was about 2 weeks for him from enacting to death. He had wonderful hospice nurses 24/7- probably because he lived with my grandmother in their own house and she was also 88. My mom and her sister (their 2 children) did go stay for the 2 weeks. They gave him enough medication that he felt no pain and mostly slept. He was a banker- so had planned his whole life- retired exactly at 62.5; had sold their house and moved in to a townhouse after buying their retirement home so that the retirement home was paid off before retiring etc etc. So we weren't surprised that no detail was left out. He was in amazing shape except for the cancer- no other meds or ailments. And great physical shape. He didn't want to burden my grandma with a long and painful death or treatments. The cancer had metastasized to the point it would have taken a lot to stabilize again and he figured- like the gentleman in this video- what was 1 more year if he was miserable during that year. This was in 2010. Perhaps if some of the meds we have now were around then he may have tried one. But he'd been an original lupron trial patient and was done.

EdBacon in reply to pakb26 days ago

Thanks for sharing. Part of what makes this difficult is that the best time to do it is not when you are the last hours of life, in a bed hooked up to a drip, etc. You want to do it when you are still in decent physical condition like your grandfather did. For one thing, you have to be able to do it yourself without assistance and some people will need to travel if they want to get the service. Not to mention that extra, and unnecessary suffering you will endure by waiting. Waiting too long may mean losing the opportunity.

Of course inevitably, someone will say something like "Oh but you're in such good shape" just like that guy that he met at the lake on his walk. Everyone knows someone like this guy. There are even comments below the video criticizing Ralph, apparently because he doesn't look sick enough for them.

Near the end of the video he says "People say 'your doing that to yourself'? But they don't live inside my body."

maggiedrum in reply to noahware26 days ago

Some facilities/providers may or may not follow a directive like this despite its legality in the state. They should butt out in my opinion but I know it has happened. In many cases it is honored though. I would hope to be only semi-conscious if I tried this though as I don't believe it is always a "painless" option for the patient, either/or emotionally or physically.

noahware in reply to maggiedrum26 days ago

It is probably best suited to home care. As for painless, it is mentioned in most literature that some pain meds can and should be continued as needed... in no way is it promoted as JUST "stop eating and drinking."

The emotional aspect is important. I think such an approach has to be considered and discussed between patient and caregivers, multiple times, well in advance of any decision to proceed.

Sam2346 in reply to noahware26 days ago

i always heard that was painful, but then never fully looked into it. As a nurse I had heard of it but heard it wasn’t pain free.Thank you for article

Carlosbach27 days ago

EddieB,

Thanks for posting this video. I was touched by Ralph's story and his example.

I've sat with several people as they passed of cancer, and seen the toll it took on them, their families, their friends, and their caregivers. Shortly after my diagnosis I decided that I would take the Death with Dignity option when my own time draws near. I'm fortunate enough to live in Oregon, so that makes the choice a little easier for me.

I've talked the options over with my wife and kids, and they support me. I'm sure it will get increasingly difficult for them as the time draws nearer, so we are planning to do some family counseling together.

I hope to have some time left to be with my loved ones, but when its my time...

EdBacon in reply to Carlosbach27 days ago

That's great that you have a supportive family. I do as well. I'm hoping I can do it here in California, but it really depends on how long they give me after Pluvicto stops working. If it looks like it's going to be too long and drawn out, it will be off to Switzerland for me. My wife just happens to be Swiss and her mother is a member of Exit, the Swiss organization for residents. We will able to stay with her as long as we need.

I've told my family that this is my last treatment so they understand that. If you're going to do Death with Dignity, it's important that you don't waste the time you have pursuing treatment dead ends that can leave you debilitated and not give you much in return.

You have to follow the advice of The Gambler in the song: "Know when to hold 'em, Know when to fold 'em."

Carlosbach in reply to EdBacon27 days ago

know when to pack it in...

EdBacon in reply to Carlosbach27 days ago

Just read the lyrics to the The Gambler which includes the line: "The best thing you can hope for is to die in your sleep"

Foldem in reply to EdBacon26 days ago

To be eligible for Death with Dignity in California, you need two doctors to certify that you have less than 6 months to live. I’ve been in Stage 4 treatment since 2010, and have already discussed this. I fully expect to chop a few months of useless pain off my life.

I also have a good will and advance directives in place.

I think every patient should have this option.

middlejoel in reply to Foldem26 days ago

My fear is that even though I might be in extreme pain with no chance of improvement but not about to die, it will be nearly impossible to find docs willing to authorize the going away cocktail.

Carlosbach27 days ago

and in your final words I found an ace that I can keep

Thanks

Stanny127 days ago

Sorry to hear However only one person has the Answer. All of us here on this site has had some difficult questions to Answer. You know the right ending of your journey. Wishing you all the best.

PSAed27 days ago

Thanks for posting this video. Best wishes

Wongle127 days ago

I for one totally agree with the idea I wish we would have had the choice for my boo but sadly the financial side was the problem if and when I reach a time be it through illness or old age I would like to leave this mortal coil when I chooses and with my faculties all intact but most of all my dignity xx

Miomarito27 days ago

Ed, I don’t know how to talk about this with Jim. He could be thinking it but not wanting to break my heart. We have had the best life together for 40 plus years and I guess, I mean we can’t think about being with out each other. I see he is getting worse…. I’m sorry, I’m crying but wanted to thank you for posting this.

EdBacon in reply to Miomarito26 days ago

So sorry to hear about your sadness and tears. I hope you find a way to talk him about it. Do you live in a place that allows it?

Miomarito in reply to EdBacon25 days ago

yes Ed, we are in Pa. Even if they didn’t allow it, I would never let him suffer❤️

BB_127 days ago

Thanks for sharing. Options are good.

mjtct6126 days ago

I have experienced Voluntarily Stopping Eating and Drinking during my grandmothers passing after several strokes. My aunt claimed my grandmother had a medical agreement that resulted in no life support. At the time I didnt think there was such a thing and questioned my aunt. I couldnt imagine it meant no eating or drinking and said she will pass from dehydration. I can tell you it took approx 2-3 weeks and she was kept comfortable. I didnt understand it at the time but will certainly consider it when my time comes.

maggiedrum26 days ago

I fully support Death with Dignity. It is "legal" in Washington state but there are several rules which are very similar to those in other states. However, where you can do it is a major/severe problem. Most all the major hospitals here, and many of the hospice facilities, are owned or controlled by religious entities that will ban or refuse any and all "care" related to Death with Dignity. Some doctors will refuse to do it and since it requires two doctors to approve it, that could be a problem. If anyone, or anyone's family, wish to go via Death with Dignity in Washington state, they MUST consider where they will do it, i.e. in what facility, and select two doctors who will cooperate with the requirements. And, I believe that no providers will sign off for a patient unless they are very familiar with the medical history of the patient. This could be a major delay and/or major additional expense.

I don't think it can be done without the consent of the patient who would be considered to be of sound mind at the time of consent. There may be a way to sign a document in advance when a patient expects to lose his soundness of mind, which may include being on pain medication, but that should also be explored. This is a potential complicated procedure and the rules are strict and subject to interpretation.

Other family members might object and they may or may not be able to delay or prevent this type of closure but I am not sure if that is the case here. That should also be researched to make sure it does not stop or delay the process.

My spouse knows and agrees to me going with Death with Dignity as is my brother. They are my only close relatives so I believe I would be okay in that regard.

I recently attended a seminar at the local hospital where they presented various options, such as medical Advanced Directives to stop medical care under certain conditions (do not resuscitate, etc.) and they briefly touched on Death with Dignity. One of the best presenters there was from a local hospice facility. She was very knowledgeable about the process. I would say that some hospices in your area might be a good resource for information.

EdBacon in reply to maggiedrum26 days ago

I've read that Washigton has a problem having doctors that will participate. especially in certain parts of the state. This is one the main reasons that Oregon changed its residency requirement. In California we also have healthcare organizations that don't participate, but new our state laws require that they make it clear on their website if they do or don't.

maggiedrum in reply to EdBacon26 days ago

That's what I have heard too. Unfortunately, some if not most people who would want the procedure will not be able to travel to Oregon. I am not sure what Oregon requires as far as a wait time. It would certainly be an issue for friends/family who want to be there to support the patient.

EdBacon in reply to maggiedrum26 days ago

I am in contact now with someone who lives on the other side of the country and is looking into traveling to Oregon. There is no additional waiting required although you do have to take up a temporary residence for the time it takes for eveything to get approved. There is a doctor in Portland who works with out-of-state patients. For more information anyone interested can contact:

End of Life Choices Oregon

eolcoregon.org/end-of-life-...

maggiedrum in reply to EdBacon26 days ago

Thank you for the additional info. Some day I may have to visit Portland again.

alohapickle in reply to maggiedrum22 days ago

Thanks, Ed, for starting this conversation and for your thorough and thoughtful remarks regarding yourself and replying to others. My spouse is probably nearing the end of treatment options; we have discussed End of Life options thoroughly ever since his diagnosis (age 73, PSA >400, G 9, bone and node mets: became CR after only 4 months on degarelix and Zytiga.) Spouse is and has always been clear that he is grateful for a long and healthy life, and that the disease symptoms and treatment SE vs quality of life equation must favor quality of life.

We live in Washington State that has Death with Dignity. He has connected with a volunteer with the organization "End of Life Washington (endoflifewas.org). This individual is available by personal email and phone for support and guidance. The resources for ALL aspects of planning for end-of-life care are excellent. Everyone can learn how to better plan for their health care, regardless of where they live, with the resources on their site. For state residents who want to consider Death with Dignity, a volunteer with the organization can assist with the process of understanding the law, the forms, the steps, AND with connecting with physicians that are supportive of the law. We are trying to learn as much as we can while life is better than it (likely) will be in the coming months. Planning for possibilities and options is so important. Family and any loved ones who may be involved in care need to know a person's profoundly held beliefs so they know they are honoring them and that equals loving them. Peace and comfort to you and to all on this site.

Bigmls789026 days ago

Speak to Dr Thomas Seyfried, Boston College, Cancer is a metabolic disease, get on Fenbendazole, Nitroxoline, Nitazoxanide, luteolin, Paw Paw Supplements.

fourputt26 days ago

Thank you for posting this. For some reason it reminded of a line I heard in a movie the other night that stuck with me. Wyatt Earp (Burt Lancaster) had lectured Doc Holiday (Kirk Douglas) that being as sick as he was he needed treatment and needed to stop taking chances. Doc knew he was terminally ill and his reply was (paraphrasing) " Wyatt my worst fear is dying in a bed and if I keep going like I am someday I'll run into somebody faster than me and it'll be over quick". Now I'm not saying we're a bunch of outlaws LOL but in the end most of us are like Doc about dying in a bed.

Cyclingrealtor26 days ago

A friends father in-law just took himself out last year. His wife had passed 4 - 6 months before and he was ready to go. He had some respiratory disease that had progressed to the point that he was on oxygen 24/7 and really couldn't do anything but sit in a chair because getting up and even walking across the room would drop his oxygen severely low. So he exercised his right (California) while he was still of sound mind and went through the process. My friend said that as sad as it was it had its own peace and beauty with that process.

I wish it was available for my Dad at his time of departure. It was the worst 3 weeks of his life........starving and wasting away in a hospital bed at home. The strongest man I have ever saw. I was actually happy for him when he passed. He was no longer suffering!

We all need to follow what is best for ourselves! 🙏🏻

EdBacon in reply to Cyclingrealtor26 days ago

I was just thinking about how my fight with the cancer is coming to an end, but now I have a new fight: getting the best death I can get for myself. While I am getting whatever I can out of Pluvcito, I am getting things prepared so I can have an option in my death.

j-o-h-n in reply to Cyclingrealtor24 days ago

Thank God your Dad is without pain for eternity. Bless him.

Would you be kind enough to tell us your age, location and where you are being treated? All information is voluntary. Thank you and keep your chin up......(especially if you're doing chinups),,,,

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 02/25/2023 12:12 AM EST

Cyclingrealtor in reply to j-o-h-n24 days ago

I am 55 now and live in Northern California. Currently being treated at Kaiser Permanente. It's a fight and battle for anything other than basics with KP. They are pitiful.

EdBacon in reply to Cyclingrealtor24 days ago

Which Kaiser?

Cyclingrealtor in reply to EdBacon23 days ago

Roseville

KP has been pathetic. In fact another Cancer Brother I met on social media and I had a conference call with the VP of Cancer Care. He had written about his nightmare and included my shit Care in an email and she reached out. She's fairly new to KP and I really don't think she understands KP's attitude towards prostate cancer. She gave me a push in my care. My Cancer Brother in the other area.......just ignored her. Pathetic.

I have had friends talk to their KP doc about getting screened and they shoot it down. Another guy online said his KP doctor wouldn't run a psa test switched out to another healthcare system stage 4 / G9. I'm surprised KP doesn't have a MASSIVE class action suit by now.

I didn't discover my 15.2 by KP. I ran a men's panel through an online lab. My primary care doc was tongue tied with my discovery and said most likely not accurate.

j-o-h-n in reply to Cyclingrealtor23 days ago

Thank you for your response..... Not the way you, a Pca patient should be treated. Fire the aHoles...... May the force be with you......

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 02/25/2023 12: 38 PM EST

Lrv4422126 days ago

Dear Ed,

Thank you for the courage to post this. I agree, death with dignity, is an option to think about,

We euthanize our beloved pets, and I have done that to 3 of my dear pets, with sadness to lose them and relief to see them stop suffering. Why can't we end suffering with dignity in this country to humans?

I don't know the answer. I do remember when I lived in Michigan, Dr Jack Kevorkian was a pathologist and euthanasia proponent. He lived in royal Oak, Michigan.

I used to attend some of his seminars. Sadly, Euthanasia never has been accepted in this country and Dr. Kevorkian is now deceased.

I agree with you, that people need the choice. It is not for some and yet others would welcome it.

Thank You again. 🦊

EdBacon in reply to Lrv4422126 days ago

Thank you.

I think it's good that we are having a discussion here on the forum about this subject. To me, the forum is a bit geared toward fight, fight, fight until the last breath. And that's fine, and it's what a lot of people want. But some of us are exhausted from the fight and see that we are at the end of line.

After 7 years of it, I certainly am. And now facing long-shot treatment options/clinical trials that are more likely to just extend my suffering than add any really significant quality of life time. It would nice for those of us who want to go out on our own terms to have permission to do so.

I'm glad I've got a supportive family, but I'd say overall, there is a lack of support for this choice.

Lrv44221 in reply to EdBacon26 days ago

I agree Ed, some are tired of fighting., and need other options, 🦊

gsun26 days ago

We have this option in BC but you have to be of sound mind to consent at the last minute. This rules out people with dementia. They are looking into a consent form by the patient but not yet. Before it was legal, many people were sent off by the doctors and nurses. My wife's best friend had terminal cancer and when she got really bad there was a nurse doing home care and she just kept turning up the morphine drip until our friend passed. This was standard practice but nobody talked about it.

NIKKIWOOD26 days ago

Thanks for posting this video. It's just tragic that a "death with dignity" option is not available everywhere in this country. Traveling to Oregon or Switzerland is just not a practical alternative for most of us. Maybe it's time to buy a pistol ..................... if you don't already have one.

EdBacon in reply to NIKKIWOOD26 days ago

There is an organization called Final Exit in the US. They can arrange a DIY kit that does the job with nitrogen so there is no drugs or approval required from anyone. Supposed to be a painless and peaceful way to go. They even have staff to show you how to set it up and use it without actually assisting you. This is legal in all US states and a lot less messy than the pistol method.

NIKKIWOOD in reply to EdBacon26 days ago

Yes, here is their website: finalexitnetwork.org/

Ed, are their pluses and minuses that you know about (re: their services)?

EdBacon in reply to NIKKIWOOD26 days ago

From what I know, advantages are:

Low cost, no drugs, available anywhere, legal everywhere, no doctors needed to sign off and no need to be within 6 months of death.

Disadvantages that I know of:

Would be considered suicide, unlike following the law in a state that allows it. It's a DIY kit and I'd be a little nervous about botching something although if you do it right, it's about 100% reliable. I think it requires a bit more effort and time to get everything together and arrange for help to learn how to do it.

EdBacon in reply to NIKKIWOOD26 days ago

I don't think I'd try a pistol after talking to an X-ray technician I met while I was working in the medical field. He said they brought this guy in one day who was in a vegetative state and nobody could figure out why. They x-rayed his head and saw a bullet inside and noticed a small wound in the side of his head where the bullet had entered. Apparently he shot himself and the bullet went right around the inside of his skull and gave him an instant lobotomy.

Miomarito in reply to EdBacon26 days ago

good grief, that sounds horrible, that poor man!

EdBacon in reply to Miomarito26 days ago

Yeah, for sure. Some things are better left to the professionals.

Miomarito in reply to EdBacon25 days ago

Ed, I think the professionals have kind hearts, I believe they will take care of business. They do it all the time with upping certain meds, only we don't know it. When I was so young, my mother in law was dying of cancer. That day, it was my watch for this lovely sweet woman...The doctor, a family friend took one look at her and I overheard something " Ohhh (her name) its time to change your meds! That night she passed. I remembered that day, years ago, and said those exact words to the Doc for my own mom at 92. I was asked if I knew what I was asking, my brother and I said yes we do...two nights later she passed. Why should any one of us suffer at the end, like many of us said on this thread, we never let our pets suffer, so this just seems like what should be done with our loved ones. This terrible disease makes you suffer enough.

NIKKIWOOD in reply to Miomarito21 days ago

I think you are absolutely right -- but it depends on the community and the doctor involved. When Attorney General John Ashcroft (2001-2005) tried to ban assisted suicide, I had a conversation with my parents' doctor who practiced in a small town in a community hospital. She looked at me and said "let's just say my patients never suffer". True to her word, my parents (both in their 90's ) died a fast, peaceful death in her hospital. It was the right thing to do, and our entire family was grateful........

Miomarito in reply to NIKKIWOOD21 days ago

41 hours from Pa. To Oregon I guess by car. My Jim has such a strong desire to be with all of us. I can’t say anything and I’ll probably be no good to anyone if something happens to him. I’m brave now, but…..,,

EdBacon in reply to Miomarito21 days ago

I've been talking to my family about it.

I think it's easy for people to look at it like a choice between taking your life and continuing to live. What I've been trying to explain is that is a choice between dying now peacefully and dying later horribly. Either way, you are going to die. You don't get out of it by waiting.

I really do believe a lot of people think that if you put it off, you don't have to go through it.

Miomarito in reply to EdBacon21 days ago

No one has told me what kind of death it is...I'm thinking it is horrible. Like I said, I will not watch the man I love suffer, I'm worried but I can't let that happen!

EdBacon in reply to Miomarito21 days ago

I can be bad because of the bone metastases and how painful they are. I've already had a lot of pain so I know that's only going to get worse. As much as I hate the pain, it really forces you to accept death. I think the way to talk about it is to say, "You don't have to suffer., there's an option" I have a friend who is religious and he doesn't fully support what I'm doing. At one point he said "I'm really hoping to die in my sleep" I kind of chuckled when he said that.

Miomarito in reply to EdBacon21 days ago

Thank you Ed!

MrG68 in reply to EdBacon21 days ago

Personally I don't think you should be too concerned about your religious friends opinion. There's an absolute chasm in someone recognizing ones pain, and that of that person actually enduring it. Who wants to really extend their life only to suffer horribly with that time? Family members also suffer too. It's just horrific to see someone go through it, never mind having to do it.

In most cases, family who witness this are relieved when it all eventually comes to pass. Not for them personally, more that the suffering has ended and they're finally at peace.

This is something that I've thought about for a long time actually. Switzerland would be my choice if I decided to do it. Looks like a dignified option to me personally.

Hope it works out for you, whatever path you take.

EdBacon in reply to MrG6821 days ago

Thanks, I agree. I always say that if I could give someone a few days of some of the pain I've had, I could make a "believer" out of anyone. After you've suffered for a while, you don't really care any more about what anyone thinks or believes. Nothing matters except making it stop.

Switzerland is good option, in part because they use the best drug (pentobarbital). It's becoming impossible to get in the US because of the death penalty. With several layers of irony, Texas, a state known for the death penalty but a state that doesn't allow for death with dignity, has stockpiled something like 10 doses to use for executing their inmates, while the rest of us can use a cocktail of 4 different drugs.

Miomarito in reply to EdBacon20 days ago

No one knows, unless your living it!

NIKKIWOOD in reply to EdBacon21 days ago

On the other hand, if the gun shot gave this guy a lobotomy, I would think he was beyond caring about his condition.

maggiedrum in reply to NIKKIWOOD21 days ago

I've thought about this. One consideration is how horrific it can be to family as it can be extremely disturbing to see someones body parts against a wall or a chair. I am sure there are ways to do it without that but I certainly would not subject my spouse to seeing the results. Actually, I worry about her seeing me passed in any situation. That can be helped by having the difficult discussions before then. I have started trying to bring it up with my spouse almost casually. She watched a friend pass just by refusing any more treatment. That is a bit less "intentional" feeling but it certainly has paved the way for our discussions. She knows that there will be a time when, for whatever the situation is, it is intolerable for me and it would be time to go. We have had, like many of you, to take our beloved dogs to the vet for the last time, and watched for our closest go. It was more than difficult but we both knew it would take away the pain and suffering he had from his crippling arthritis. It was more agonizing than the vet visit which was over quick.

EdBacon in reply to maggiedrum21 days ago

It's really a difficult thing to figure out. Unfortunately for many, they are not proactive and end up with no choice in the end. I had friend in this situation with the same cancer as Ralph in the video. But he just thought about and talked about it and did nothing. At the end, he was trying disparately to figure out a way to speed things up for him. So planning is important here. I see people making vague comments like "oh I'll figure that out later" or "there are lots of ways to do it.." And they end up with the default: nothing.

As much as I hate pain, it does make it easier to decide and provides motivation not to be complacent. I was explaining to someone how it's like being on the ledge of building with the net down below and firefighters telling you to jump. You are really scared and don't want to do it, but as the flames get closer, it gets a lot easier.

maggiedrum in reply to EdBacon21 days ago

Ed, thank you for all the comments you have made. I entirely agree about the need to plan and nail things done. Fortunately I am a compulsive planner (ask my wife) and intend to set it all up in advance. I am not as far along my path as some of you so I will take advantage of all the videos, advice, organizations, etc.

Ed, I am truly sorry to hear about your pain.

EdBacon in reply to maggiedrum21 days ago

Thanks. Yeah the pain is terrible for sure. But the positive side is that is has motivated me to take action and to moving ahead with acceptance of death. I can imagine just sitting there looking at that cocktail and thinking "I'm going to end my life now if I take this" and I can imagine being afraid of doing it. But when you are in pain, that cocktail looks like relief. It looks like the only way out of continued suffering. When you are in a lot of pain you just want it to end. I kind of look at this as palliative care. It's for when other meds fail to give you the relief you need. It's the ultimate pain reliever.

Purple-Bike26 days ago

A powerful thread started by the video and filling a big gap in the Forum. It touches deeply and gives a perspective of relief from suffering and fear of death.

EdBacon in reply to Purple-Bike26 days ago

Thanks. I have a lot of family in Switzerland and they lead the world in this area. It's a really established part of the culture to support this. They have an organization for Swiss residents called Exit. My mother-in-law is a member. Once you are a member, when you feel it's your time to go, you just make the arrangements. They have some safeguards in place, but it is considered a basic human right there.

Papillon226 days ago

Thanks, Ed, for exposing an Elephant in the room. Death with Dignity for some can be very empowering. Personally, I would like to have as much control as legally possible when the time arrives. Once again you have reminded us that "the emperor has no clothes."

EdBacon in reply to Papillon226 days ago

Thanks. You really have to figure out when to cut your losses and that's not easy. Chasing after treatments near the end that aren't working can seem innocuous, but end up taking this option off the table. If you are adamant about squeezing every drop out your life, you could end up losing your autonomy.

I was reading this book by a mountain climber. He explained how sometimes for a number of reasons, you can't make it to the summit safely. He talked about how hard it is to make the decision to come back down the mountain. But if you do continue, with every step you take forward, you will need another one back if you have to come back later.

j-o-h-n26 days ago

My wish would be to leap off of the leaning tower of Pisa... this way my family and friends could always say they always had an idea that I was not never on the level......

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 02/22/2023 6:05 PM EST

Miomarito in reply to j-o-h-n21 days ago

The one side John, is a shorter way down!

EdBacon in reply to Miomarito21 days ago

Take the long way home.

Miomarito in reply to EdBacon21 days ago

I don't know whether to cry or laugh!

j-o-h-n in reply to Miomarito21 days ago

OK, as long as I make a WOP sound when I hit the ground .....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Monday 02/27/2023 6:34 PM EST

Miomarito in reply to j-o-h-n21 days ago

lol funny man!

j-o-h-n in reply to Miomarito21 days ago

Thank you Mio.... You sure are one special Spouse!!!..........That's what your wife wrote about you on the ladies room wall....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Monday 02/27/2023 7:32 PM EST

CurrentSEO21 days ago

Great video and subject, we all need to be ready to “die”.

I’m sure that we have the right to discard physical body if it exhausted or nearly exhausted it usefulness and do Not face any negative consequences in the material or spiritual worlds. Life insurance companies in some places my disagree however….

Family members must respect and support decision of the person who make such decision, otherwise it will be extremely egoistic to make person suffer for their peace of mind.

Generally prolonging life of the physical body by whatever it takes is done either because of religious believes and fear to go to hell or somewhere alike or almost always because of fear of death on its own by the person in question and/or his relatives.

There many ways to overcome fear of death and none of them easy.

However, I can suggest an easy start to people who afraid to die or to their relatives to read the book “Journey of Souls” and then maybe to do past life regressions and more importantly between life regression with qualified hypnotherapist. That will give different perspectives about cancer and other life experiences.

Basically “death” it is something to look forward to and celebrate departure with champagne and party is a great way to do that!

EdBacon in reply to CurrentSEO21 days ago

I think one kind of has to "get with the program". We are all going to die, whether we like or or not. So the choice is how we die. Putting it off a little longer and suffering more is not a good choice in my opinion.

CurrentSEO in reply to EdBacon21 days ago

Ed,

I partially agree, that we all going to discard current physical bodies, but are not really going to “die”. Death and fear of it only for people who don’t know better than this physical world.

I do think that the only reason to do treatments is a chance to receive durable remission and be able to have good QoL that put this physical body to a good use, if something like that is not an option… ending connection with your physical body few months before official expiration of it is a great option to exercise. However each human being has to make their own judgment based on his maturity and understanding of this subject and rest of the family and friends if cannot understand at-least have to respect and fall inline with such human being choice.

I have no doubts that when for me come time to go … I won’t be drugging myself with pain killers or join hospice … I will disconnect from physical body with clear (not drugged consciousness). That is my choice.

“Death” is really something to look forward to for all of us😉

Miomarito in reply to EdBacon21 days ago

This is true Ed, now to be able to ask this question is my fear. When my mom was dying, they told me you should tell her its ok to die and let her know exactly what is happening. I took their advise, when my mom asked me if she was going to die, I said yes Mom and its ok, you can rest now. She got so upset and said What, I don't want to die, I want to live....my daughter and I just looked at each other and really did not know what to say. I will never forget our daughters face that day.....then I ended up saying, I could be wrong you know, I probably am wrong.....it sounds funny but believe me, it was the worst thing that could ever happen to my daughter and I, something that will never be forgotten.

db196621 days ago

Hi Ed. How is your Pluvicto treatment going. I do my 2nd on March 15th. In the meantime pain is increasing and I know I have run out of options after Pluvicto.

Always in my mind I was planning to ensure I pass on my terms and this article confirms this is what I will do. At some point I need to have that conversation with my family. Choosing the right time is the hardest part. In the meantime I will focus on giving my all to Pluvicto. Fingers crossed that the fatigue, dry mouth, constipation is all worth it.

Thanks for raising this point and posting the video. Ralph was clear in his mind what he wanted and yiu have to respect that.

EdBacon in reply to db196621 days ago

Thanks for asking. It's going fairly well, or at least it feels that way. I have energy now and appetite back at least. Still have pain although less for sure. Some or most of that could be from the Pluvicto killing the cancer.

In any case, I'm not making any assumptions about the future. Like all treatments, Pluvicto will eventually fail and I need to use the time it's giving to tie up loose ends and get things ready for bailing out of here. The two months I had with no working treatments before Pluvicto were really bad so I'm expecting that my cancer progression will take off once it gets the chance. I don't want to end up locking myself out of options by waiting too long, even if that means leaving "some life on the table".

My family understands this and I explain it to them as a trade off between some extra time with me vs potentially having to watch me suffer and wither away in hospice.

If you need any help, support, information or just need to talk about it feel free to Private Message me any time.

Wishing you the best with your Pluvicto. I get my #2 the day before you do.

Derf422320 days ago

PCa treatment is largely palliative anyway -- leading to a somewhat later death (ideally from something besides PCa) with better QoL allowing one to be classy and kind and thoughtful --- aka dignity. "Death with dignity" to me implied medical euthanasia, aka Kevorking. Not my cuppa.

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