Another look at VITAL.: I liked the way... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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Another look at VITAL.

smurtaw profile image
15 Replies

I liked the way Moyad breaks things down and makes things easy to understand. Here he addresses vitamin D3.

Vitamin D for Preventing Fractures in Low-Risk Adults | Video

grandroundsinurology.com/vi...

15 Replies
maley2711 profile image
maley2711

You are a researcher !! any idea re importance of D level when D is low, ie < 20, but Ca is in normal range, as mine is. Wife similar ! I have a higher fracture risk, per our DEXA scans.....13% for major fracture, and 7% for hip, over next 10 years......and for radiation, I'm to start ADT !! ?? Good golly!! already a candidate for bone thinning drug...before ADT?

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to maley2711

Thanks! These documents and studies help me keep my thoughts straight. Too much noise out there and hard for me to make sense of it without help.

I found this blurb that might be pertinent: healthcentral.com/article/o...

If your status is less than 20 mg/dl the data tells me to increase it. My wife is at 18 mg/dl and she's taking 2.4kIU D3 and a small dose of K2 to increase it. Coincidentally I was also at 18 mg/dl but 5kIU/day increased mine to 35 mg/dl.

A nice supplement/serum calculator: originalText

The first link has a graph (nmol/l so divide by 2.5 for mg/dl).

2. Circulating vitamin D level and mortality in prostate cancer patients: a dose–response meta-analysis

originalText

3. 25-hydroxyl Vitamin D Levels and the Risk of Mortality in the General Population

originalText

4. Meta-analysis of All-Cause Mortality According to Serum 25-Hydroxyvitamin D

originalText

5. Frontiers | Combined Vitamin D, Omega-3 Fatty Acids, and a Simple Home Exercise Program May Reduce Cancer Risk Among Active Adults Aged 70 and Older: A Randomized Clinical Trial | Aging

originalText

6. Vitamin D May Reduce Prostate Cancer Metastasis by Several Mechanisms Including Blocking Stat3

originalText

7. Vitamin D levels and the risk of prostate cancer and prostate cancer mortality – PubMed

originalText

Look into a low-dose estrogen patch addition for the ADT. Some MOs are good with it. Some even prescribe them. Most of them are stuck in the oral estrogen past (oral increases cardiac risks - transdermal doesn't and might even decrease them).

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply to smurtaw

Thanks so much !!! Do you ever feel as though you are using too much time of limited lifespan thinking about/studying PCa? Taking a "just trust your Docs" approach would seem to allow a patient to more successfully avoid such a situation? I'm more in your camp, but I continue to question the wisdom of that approach...life is so short.....cancer or not...especially at age 74, but at any age ?

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to maley2711

I understand that sentiment and I told my wife that it is probably one of the reasons that some men follow their MO's advice implicitly.

I enjoy learning about the human body. I think I missed my calling. Now that I am retired I can finally do what I want to do. I love learning about muscles and how they work and grow. But there is only so much to learn there. Enter PCa!... I hate having it and if I didn't I'd tone it down some and research other areas.

I have to place limits on it. When we go on vacations I try to limit this area to no more than an hour a day. As you said, life is short.

Take care, Russ

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply to smurtaw

Except for my journey into the swamp with PCa, I've been pretyy much the opposite re biology, anatomy, physiology, etc. Always felt true understanding was past the limits of man's intelligence...bolstered when I learned in approx 1970 in a beginner's elective microbiology course that scientists still had limited understanding of how the most basic ( one cell? ) organisms function? In science, seems the ultimate "why" question is unanswerable. They discovered what is called DNA and have also found that this complex molecular structure somehow is associated with organisms' functioning and future...but why??????? Thus, I guess, God?

Delving into the unusual constipation with soft stools that is dogging me now and worsening over time, I see that perhaps ? related to nerve(or brain??) problem that might be related to improper functioning of muscle that controls rectum activity?

Previously had no idea of any of the details of bowel system and its proper functioning. Not just injurious to current QOL, the problem is stopping me from proceeeding with PCa radiation treatment.....requires daily bowel movements so as to help minimize radiation damage to rectum,etc.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to maley2711

I assume it isn't so simple as coffee or magnesium? When I drink a half dozen cups of coffee at a restaurant I'll be looking for the bathroom in a hurry.

That's one of the things that really draws me to it. Our knowledge barely scratches the surface. The challenge is to try to piece together little bits of a huge puzzle.

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply to smurtaw

The big "why" ? ....why does anything exist???? My friend talked about God....ultimately, Ok, if God exists...why?

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to maley2711

God exists so that we can wonder why he exists :)

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply to smurtaw

Voila!!

MrG68 profile image
MrG68 in reply to smurtaw

I'm leaning more towards: 'God exists so that HE can wonder why HE exists'

😃

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to MrG68

What if He decides that He doesn't like the answer?

MrG68 profile image
MrG68 in reply to smurtaw

Well he could always create man. That way he can sit back watch in amusement 🤣

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to MrG68

He'll have company. I do that a lot (and sometimes I look in the mirror for more amusement).

KocoPr profile image
KocoPr

Here is an easy breakdown of criteria, but didn’t see the vitD status on this breakdown.Im not putting a lot of faith in this study.

They did have over 25,000 participants men , but over a 5 year period, healthy men 50 and older and women 55 and older.

It is a good study but I don’t think one could infer a cause and effect from this study.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to KocoPr

Here are a few more analyses:

1. VITAL RCT

a. Vitamin D and Omega-3 Trial (VITAL) - Study Results - ClinicalTrials.gov

clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show...

b. In the active D group the average 25(OH)D went from 30.8 mg/dl to 42.7 ng/ml: Serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D in the VITamin D and OmegA-3 TriaL (VITAL): Clinical and demographic characteristics associated with baseline and change with randomized vitamin D treatment – PMC

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

c. VITAL RCT cancer mortality significantly reduced: Principal results of the VITamin D and OmegA-3 TriaL (VITAL) and updated meta-analyses of relevant vitamin D trials – PubMed

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/317...

d. Effect of Vitamin D3 Supplements on Development of Advanced Cancer – PMC

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

e. Vitamin D and marine omega 3 fatty acid supplementation and incident autoimmune disease: VITAL randomized controlled trial | The BMJ

bmj.com/content/376/bmj-202...

f. Vitamin D for Preventing Fractures in Low-Risk Adults | Video

grandroundsinurology.com/vi...

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