My supplements/drugs: I'd like people... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

16,451 members20,007 posts

My supplements/drugs

smurtaw profile image

I'd like people to share what supplements/drugs they are using. The more the better. We could all learn from each other.

This might not be clear. I made it in a word doc with tables and then had to butcher it up to add it to this post. Let me know.

Supplements and Drugs

Supplements are very unlikely to “cure” higher-grade cancer (T2-T4). However, in conjunction with other therapies, they might help control it.

When reviewing data for supplements it is important to view the results in context of this study:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

“in the RCT placebo cohort; 46% of patients experienced PSADT increases >200%”, “These data suggest that calculated PSADT in BRPC may naturally increase over time in the absence of therapy and may be influenced by duration of PSA follow-up. As a result, single arm trials could show false significant increases despite the lack of active treatment of these patients. Placebo-controlled RCTs including clinical endpoints are recommended to screen novel agents in men with BRPC to mitigate bias because of natural PSADT variability.”

To reduce the possibility of supplement contamination overwhelming my body I divided the supplements into groups A and B. I take “A” for a month, and then “B”, and repeat. (note: this was lost going from my word doc to this text - but just divide them up how you want and keep the best ones in both A and B).

Ratings are for PCa only.

Coffee: A few cups before noon (unless you are not sensitive to the caffeine and then you can take it anytime you like).To prevent caffeine habituation I drink this for a week or so and then stop for a week or two.

Green or white tea: (80% tea/20% lemon juice – lemon juice helps prevent kidney stones)A few cups before noon (unless you are not sensitive to the caffeine and then you can take it anytime you like).

I drink tea for a week or so and then stop for a week. If I don’t take a break, I get headaches.

Take the supplements with a 1 next to it on the first week

Take the supplements with a 2 next to it on the second week

Take the supplements with a 3 next to it on the third week

K- is stressful on kidneys

L- is stressful on liver

K+ might help kidneys

L+ might help liver

Example:

1, 2 = take this supplement during week one and week two but not on week three

When I take them:

A: Upon awakening on empty stomach

B: First meal.

C: Second meal.

D: Last meal.

E: About an hour before bed on empty stomach

Things in bold are my "core" supplements/drugs

Rx Optional: (K-) (L-) Phenelzine – antidepressant.

Some research on the combination of phenelzine and naproxen shows some potential.

If this is taken, take it on the same days as naproxen. 1, 2, 3, A 15mg, B 15mg, C 15mg, E 15mg

Lycopene: 1 oz tomato paste or 4 oz tomato-based pasta or tomato sauce 1, 2, 3

8 oz of pomegranate juice or pomegranate extract with 100 mg+ ellagic acid 1, 2, 3

Optional: vegans are frequently low on creatine since it is mostly found in meat.

Creatine monohydrate 1, 2, 3 5 grams before working out

Ferrous Bisglycinate (Iron)

Only take this if your TIBC, Ferritin, and/or Iron is low (most vegans) 1, 2, 3, B ~100%-200% of RDA

(K+) Vitamin K2 (MK4 and/or MK7) 1, 2, 3 B 100% of RDA

(K+) Vitamin D3. Target serum levels of 30-50 ng/ml. Higher is as bad as lower. 1, 2, 3, B 5kIU

Garlic bulbs

Crush these and let sit for 10 minutes or so before eating. The crushed bulbs last about a day at room temperature. 1, 2

Rx (K-) Metformin (if your fasting blood glucose is < 70 mg/dl you probably don't need this) 1, 2 A 500 mg, B 500 mg, C 500 mg

NovaSol Curcumin 1, 2 as directed

(K+) Sodium bicarbonate 1, 2, 3, A 975 mg, E 975 mg

(K+) Sulforaphane 1, 2, 3, A, E

From supplements as directed

OR

1 oz of home sprouted broccoli sprouts

OR

½ tsp of powdered broccoli seeds.

If using seeds or sprouts heat them up for a minute to 50-60 degrees C. Hotter than that destroys the active ingredient. I use a meat thermometer to check the temperature. 1, 2 All 30 mg 30 mg

Rx Finasteride – if you are following BAT take as directed in the program. 5 mg

Rx Dutasteride - do not take if you are doing BAT, otherwise: 1, 2, 3, B 0.5 mg/day

Child’s multivitamin

Make sure B-12 is from methyl cobalamin and folate is methyl folate.

Iron should be low, non-heme, or from ferrous Bisglycinate.

One example is “NATURELO One Daily Multivitamin for Men - with Vitamins & Minerals + Organic Whole Foods” 1, 2 2-3 days As directed

Optional and only if you are doing a statin or red yeast rice and notice muscle pain (extremely rare)

CoQ10

Might reduce statin cancer fighting effectiveness but might fuel Pca. So only take if you notice statin side effects (typically fatigue and/or muscle pain). 1, 2 2-3 days 100 mg

(L-) EGCG 1, 2 A 400 mg, B 400mg

Magnesium 1, 2 E 250 mg

(K-) Aspirin – cardiac protection (blood thinner) 1, 2, E 81 mg

Melatonin – Take this with a full glass of water. 1, 2, E 3 mg

Rx Lovastatin – cardiac protection (cholesterol reduction) 1, 2 E 40 mg

Red Yeast Rice – cardiac protection (cholesterol reduction). (as of 2022 HPF Cholestene was one of the only effective brands) 3 B 120 mg, C 120 mg, E mg 120 mg

(K-) Orlistat 1, 2, B 60

Meriva curcumin 1, 2, C, as directed

Theracurmin 1, 2, B, 300 mg

Rx Celecoxib 1, 2, B 200-400 mg

Optional: (K-) (L-) Naproxen

Most research indicates that naproxen isn’t very effective vs. PCa. However, some research on the combination of phenelzine and naproxen shows some potential.

If this is taken, take it with the last phenelzine dose. 220 mg

Cholestoff – cardiac protection (cholesterol reduction)

1, 3, B as directed

Once a week with a meal

* Rx Cabergoline 1, 2, 3

~0.5 mg or as prescribed

(or optimally 0.25 mg twice weekly) Reduces prolactin. Prolactin might be one of the primary “fuels” for prostate cancer.

* Rx Sirolimus 1, 2, 3

~2 mg or as prescribed Fat burning is increased if you exercise an hour or so after taking this.

List of all supplements examined. Ratings are for PCa only.

Note that this has been updated. Some scores have changed slightly based on newest data.

Evidence, dose

7.50 Zytiga 250mg

6.99 Diet Depends on the diet Depends on the diet

6.16 Exercise

4.78 Dutasteride 0.5mg

4.68 celecoxib/statin

4.41 Aspirin 81mg

4.18 EGCG 400mg

4.14 Pomegranate (100 mg ellagic acid in 32oz of pomegranate juice, whole pom juice and arils likely have other cancer fighters in addition to ellagic acid) 2oz

4.14 Lovastatin 60mg

4.06 Green tea 1 cup

4.03 Red Yeast Rice 3600mg per day. Must provide a total of 15mg+ of monacolin K. 3.5 possibly if contaminated with citrinin. C

3.93 Pravastatin 10mg

3.64 Vitamin D3 ~4kIU/day. Monitor serum vitamin D and target 30-50 ng/ml.

3.63 Metformin 500mg

3.50 Melatonin 3 mg

3.17 Sulforaphane 30 mg

3.17 MCP Tbsp

3.15 Lycopene 20mg

3.03 Curcumin/Turmeric/C3/Theracurmin: Biocurc and NovaSOL>CurcuWin>Meriva>BCM-95>Theracurmin (NovaSol Supposed to be good with 24-hour half-life, take in morning on empty stomach)

3.00 Prednisone 5mg (only if zytiga is used)

3.00 Children’s Multivitamin

3.00 Iron - Ferrous Bisglycinate 25mg

2.83 Garlic 2 Cloves

2.82 Aged Garlic 440mg

2.80 Algal oil or fish omega 3 oil (DHA, EPA) 1g

2.70 Cabergoline 0.25mg twice weekly

2.68 Valproic acid 500mg

2.62 Reishi Mushroom 1200mg

2.57 Magnesium Bicarb Blood pressure. Magnesium RDA is 420mg (2.5g of magnesium bicarb). Dose 1g

2.54 Beta Sitosterol 900mg sterols/stanols

2.38 Pomi-T Cap

2.34 Zyflammend Cap

2.33 Magnesium 500mg

2.32 Dim (Diindolylmethane) 225mg

2.30 Whey protein (30-60 grams a day)

2.29 Berberine 500mg

2.24 Vitamin K2 Mk7 Form 100mcg

2.17 Loratadine 10 mg

2.17 Nattokinase 2000 FU+

2.11 Doxycycline 50mg

2.06 Orlistat 60mg

2.02 Resveratrol 150mg-3000mg

2.01 Cocoa 1g cocoa polyphenols (approx. 20g cocoa powder)

2.01 Cacao 15g (mixture)

2.00 American Ginseng as directed

1.93 Itraconazole 300 mg

1.93 Creatine Monohydrate 5g

1.88 Ursolic acid

1.86 Sodium Bicarbonate 1-2g

1.84 Turkey tail (trametes versicolor) as directed or an oz or two of real mushrooms

1.84 Niacin 1g

1.79 Piperine 10mg

1.77 ivermectin

1.77 Rapamune (Sirolimus) 2mg

1.77 Ginger 400mg

1.76 Phenelzine 15mg

1.73 Korean (Panax) Ginseng as directed

1.69 Boswellia 500mg

1.67 Probiotic as directed

1.64 Potassium Bicarb Blood pressure. Potassium RDA is 4200mg (10g of potassium bicarb). Dose 5g dangerous if your kidney function is decreased.

1.64 Cinnamon 1g cassia or Ceylon with meals

1.59 Caffeine get from coffee primarily

1.57 Olive Oil 5-15g

1.54 Finasteride 2.5-5mg

1.53 Dukoral vaccine

1.53 Green Coffee Extract

1.52 Naltrexone (LDN) 5mg

1.52 Astragalus 5g

1.51 ALCAR

1.51 Spirulina

1.48 Boron 3mg

1.46 Potassium 99mg (hypertension experts rec up to 4.7g a day) dangerous if your kidney function is decreased.

1.46 L-Carnitine 1g

1.43 CoQ10 100mg

1.42 Vitamin E Delta Tocotrienol 150mg

1.38 Milk Thistle 760mg

1.32 Ip6 And Inositol 5g

1.31 Beta Alanine

1.30 Black Seed oil (Cumin Seed) (Nigella Sativa) TBSP

1.28 Ashwagandha 500mg

1.26 Blueberries 60-120g/day

1.26 HMB 1g

1.26 Pqq (Pyrroloquinoline Quinone)

1.26 Olive Leaf Extract 1g

1.26 Hydroxychloroquine

1.26 fenugreek

1.26 hibiscus tea

1.26 7-Keto DHEA 100mg

1.25 Eleuthrococcus Senticosous (Siberian Ginseng) as directed

1.23 Quercetin 750mg

1.17 Yohimbine 10mg

1.11 Tamoxifen 5mg

1.08 B12 methylcobalamin

1.05 Grape Seed 400mg

1.03 Nigella Sativa Oil 1g

1.02 Genistein 100mg

1.02 Elderberry

1.01 Holy Basil

1.01 Bacopa Monniere

1.00 Bromelain

1.00 Mebendazole 100mg

1.00 Colostrum

1.00 Citrulline Malate

0.79 Lecithin 1g

0.78 Wheat Germ Oil 1g

0.78 Pterostilbene 500mg

0.77 L-Taurine

0.77 Stinging Nettle - reduce SHBG 3mg

0.76 Peppermint oil (menthol)

0.76 Theanine

0.63 Alpha Lipoic Acid

0.50 Fulvic Acid

0.48 Pregnenolone 100mg

0.43 HCA 250mg

0.26 Sea Buckthorn Oil 1g

0.24 Niclosamide 10-3000mg 1-3x a day

0.21 Ibuprofen Opposite Days from Aspirin

0.16 Artemisinin 200mg

0.14 Fisetin 100mg

0.13 Red Wine

0.13 Celastrol

0.11 Astaxanthin

0.10 Black Cohash

0.09 Naproxen 200mg

0.08 Indole 3 Carbinol (I3C) 81mg

0.06 sulindac

0.05 Prebiotic Mix (Psyllium, Inulin) 15g (mixture)

0.04 Aprotinin

0.03 fenofibrate

0.03 PMSF

0.02 Cimetidine 200mg

0.02 Bestatin

0.02 Pepstatin

0.02 Avena Sativa

0.02 Beta 1,3D Glucan

0.02 Mistletoe

0.02 Strawberries

0.01 Azithromycin 125mg

0.01 Prostacaid

0.00 Flax Oil 1g

0.00 Fenbendazole 222mg (1g Panacur C)

0.00 Leflunomide

0.00 B Vitamins

-1.00 Nad+

I got tired to compiling data for things that don't pass first screen. So I started just listing them. Supplements that are not summarized. Ratings are for PCa only.

None of these passed initial data analysis.

No positive RCTs

3-bromopyruvate lemon balm

acetazolamide retinoic acid

ahcc Tamoxifen

apigenin Propranolol

asparaginase pde-5 inhibitors (sildenafil is possibly best for ED and possible treatment)

baclein doxorubicin serious sides

betulin Disulfiram possibly 1 positive clinical trial

biobran intravenous vitamin C data is inconclusive

black chokeberry

butryric acid

capsaicin

cat’s claw (uncaria)

chito-oligosaccaride

chromium

chrysin

clemastine

cordyceps

cyclocreatine

dan shen

dichloroacetate 1 null

ellagic acid

fermented wheat germ extract

feverfew

gambogic acid

graviola

gymnema silvestre

haritaki

honokiol

juglone

Kaempferol

kava kava

lactoferrin

memantine

mildronate

naringen

nexrutine

Nifuroxazide

nimolide

Nordihydroguaiaretic Acid (NDGA)

oxymatrine

papaya seeds

paw paw

pentoxifylline

polydatin

proanthocyanidins

rabdosia

raloxifene 2 null

rhodiola

scutellaria baicalensis 1 null

siegesbeckia

Stevia

sulfasalazine

tetrathiomolybdate

thc

triphala

vigna

watercress

xanthohumol

114 Replies

Wooh! That's quite a list. Like many of us dealing with PCa, I did exhaustive research trying to determine the most likely supplement combo with the highest likelihood of being that "Silver Bullet" Bottom line is no one has found it. There's not enough money to fund long-term well designed studies on all the neutraceuticals as most don't provide high profit potential for Big Pharma - although the supplement industry is making a killing (billions) since they can make all sort of claims based on weak/poorly designed studies. I don't think I know a single person that isn't taking some sort of supplement, most of them a systemic meta-analysis of studies (if it exists) shows questionable benefit. There are some gems in the rough of course.

By far, good diet, lots of exercise and stress reduction are the combination that probably has more of a significant synergistic effect than pretty much any supplement combination you can dream up. I do a Medditeranean Diet that is 80% Vegan and like to cook and don't miss the hamburgers but I'll have a big burger every couple weeks as a treat or BBQ chicken. Also going on a lipid based statin (like Simvastatin) has pretty good data.

Personally I chose a few supplements that are not overly expensive that I was confident can do no harm. I alternate between Rhodiola Rosea and Coq10 (200mg) every other day, the former is an adaptogen/anti-oxidant I took before my PCa diagnosis that helps with stress/energy and I've had far less colds and no cold sore outbreaks when I take it. The latter I take to insure against Coq10 depletion from the Simvastatin I take. In general I'm trying not to overdo it on antioxidants as too much can also help cancer survive better. I also take Omega-3 supps (fish oil, avoid too much ALA Omega-3, get DHA/EPA - I take 750 mg total EPA/DHA a day) and use an app that has an NCCB database with Omega content of foods so I can shoot for a 2 to 1 Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio which is about 1/10th the ratio of the average American diet at 20 to 1. And finally I try to maintain Vitamin D levels between 45 and 70 ng. There is strong evidence too little or too much Vit D is bad for PCa. This requires from what I understand somewhere around 2,500 to 5,000 IU a day depending on how far North you live, season, and and how often you get out in the sunshine. This is one thing you want to test once or twice a year for to dial in how much you need. And finally due to the mostly Vegan Diet I take low dose Calcium+Magnesium+Zinc supp (333-500 mg Calcium 2 + 150-250mg Mag + a little zinc) and Vitamin K2 daily. All of those you can easily miss the mark on if you are going Vegan unless you go out of your way to eat foods high in those minerals (usually fortified.) Too much calcium not good for the arteries though. I get most calcium from fortified foods (bread, non-dairy yogurt, calcium processed tofu) That's it. Was tempted to do Sulforaphane, Modified Citrus Pectin, and a lot of other stuff but I'm not going that far unless I end up with significantly rising PSA.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to jazj

Exercise appears to be king. Diet is second. Statins are #3. I tried simvastatin and a few other statins but they gave me terrible insomnia (a rare side effect - but if it hits you it's 100%).Lovastatin is fine for me. Maybe interferes with my sleep a little but not enough to stop taking it.

I tried to remove subjectivity from the rankings. I doubt that I succeeded 100%.

I have a rather complex weighting formula that includes data sources:

1. care oncology

2. some BAT and SPT MOs

3. examine.com

4. consumerlab.com

5. my MO

6. my own test data

7. cancer.gov

8. PubMed trials

9. PubMed 5-year trials

10. PubMed hits

11. PubMed 5-year hits

12. PubMed 5 yr/all-time hits and Pubmed 5 yr trials/all-time trials - shows kind of a heat map.

13. Government-regulated RCTs

(getting all the data for all of these drugs and supplements took hundreds or thousands of hours over the last 4 years)

I weighed the government RCTs very high. Cancer.gov was also rather high.

On any given day I only take about 10 drugs/supplements. I took more at one time but my kidneys were failing so I cut back a lot.

Some are specific for certain conditions. And some are likely synergistic but do not pass on their own. So, is my list perfect? No. It's a stab at putting some order in my supplement/drug chaos.

If you notice I take a few that aren't ranked highly. Sirolimus for example. Not a bad ranking but not in the top dozen. Blocking mTOR is something that I think might be important when on the ADT portion of BAT.

I didn't highlight finasteride even though I take it and not dutasteride during the ADT portion of BAT. For most guys, the long elimination half-life of dutasteride isn't going to be an issue. And it blocks 80-90% of DHT whereas finasteride only blocks about 70%. 2 avenues vs. 1.

Rolphs profile image
Rolphs in reply to smurtaw

Super, this is so helpful. Ranking your references is especially valuable when we're all facing information overload. You have really researched these things and I'm going to save this post as a reference. I posted what I'm taking and why but it's not nearly as comprehensive as what you have done.

👍

"I'm trying not to overdo it on antioxidants as too much can also help cancer survive better" I am curious if this statement is based on a reliable study?

Depends on what antioxidant or combination I suppose. Many years ago they thought Vit A + E would help protect against cancer but later found it made lung cancer more likely.

tcr.amegroups.com/article/v...

Here's an example regarding breast cancer (also posted by smurlaw) regarding Breast Cancer as another example of antioxidants not always being beneficial.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/318...

Lrv44221 profile image
Lrv44221 in reply to jazj

Super and well written' I agree we need to do research.the Vit D3 is fantastic for cancer and general health. as you said around 60 Nanogram's per milliliter

Thant would be about 4000IU (international Units) of the vitamin per day........statins and other drugs tend to deplete it.

I also believe in Beta Glucan. We use the extra strength by NSC corporation. Beta Glucan modulates your immune system and does not" rev" it up or bring it down as we all need something different in that area.

As I have suggested in one of my posts: exercise for oxygen, diet (no sugar), sleep, water (keeping hydrated), a happy attitude...........and Hope

The vit D and Beta Glucan do wonders...........

thank You for your time

LRV

.

I am eating Watercress as a salad with water, olive oil and a little apple cider vinegar and I love it! Q10 can cause insomnia?

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to Seasid

Statins can give insomnia. Even tiny doses of atorvastatin taken every other day with food would keep me up all night.

Seasid profile image
Seasid in reply to smurtaw

You are probably taking Q10 with statins. How do you know then which one is the problem?

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to Seasid

Initially I took the statins by themselves. That is when I found out that some of them give me terrible insomnia.

Since then I have added very occasional CoQ10 sups. I might drop them for now since I probably only really need them in the rare case of Rhabdomyolysis. Or at least more severe muscle pain (minor muscle aches occur 10-20% of the time on statins but rhabdo is like 1 in 70,000).

Seasid profile image
Seasid in reply to smurtaw

I was on crestor 40mg a day and didn't have any apparent side effects. I never had any muscle pain, let alone Rhabdomyolysis, i know that Crestor is water soluble and that could be the reason. Crestor is the most powerful statin. That is why my PCP prescribed it. Not everyone is experiencing the same side effects. Maybe you could change to 20mg crestor if you are not Asian. Otherwise You could start with 5mg a day and see the effects on you. I stopped with statins because i may start with Enzalutamide very soon and I don't want drug interactions. Especially with such a powerful and important drug like Enzalutamide. Plus I want to know the side effects of the newly introduced drug. If i will be fine with the new drug, I coud slowly reintroduce crestor if I need.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to Seasid

I don't think that lovastatin gives me insomnia. Still, I might try a washout period to check that. And then try Crestor if I sleep better when I am off of lovastatin. Thanks.

Good that you are taking it out temporarily so that you can see what the sides of Xtandi are.

Seasid profile image
Seasid in reply to smurtaw

Exactly. I am very afraid of Xtandi. My hopes are high with that drug so I don't really want to combine it with too many drugs which are not essential at this moment. I wish you all the best. Professor Joshua said that Crestor is also fine.

Wow - what a comprehensive list. And I thought I‘m sophisticated. 😉 Besides Lupeon, Docetaxel, RP and RT (in that order) I more focus on a holistic approach. I trust in my exercising. I do long road running since I‘m 18 years old and I‘m lucky that I‘m still able to run daily. There are only a few days, when I miss my run, e.g. when travelling. I do between 8-13 km a day. I think, this mainly saved m life up to now. Since one year I added extensive weight lifting, also normally daily, as I lost my muscles quickly. I can only recommend to everybody, looking at muscle mass early. It’s tough to re-start, but doable. If weights are too heavy, try resistance bands. Next is diet. I switched to a whole food plant based diet without sugar, oil and alcohol, except at celebrations or special days when I nip from a little glas of whine. The other days I dring non-alcoholic beer, got very used to it and like it even more than normal beer now. I also reduced stress as much as possible and started meditation. That helped me a lot from getting rid of some of my bad habits. Today I‘m pretty relaxed - that’s what my wife and my friends say.

Regarding supplements I trust turmeric, pomegranate, K2, B12 and Omega-3 (as I‘m vegan). Vitamin D3 I get from sunshine here in Croatia, in winter times I supplement to keep my level between 40-70. That’s basically it. Currently my PSA is undetectable, hope this goes on.

Maybe you find some useful stuff in my post. Take care and keep on fighting!

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to Nusch

What form of B-12 do you use?

Exercise is the king of it all and it potentiates many other things. Vitamin D for example.

Nusch profile image
Nusch in reply to smurtaw

I use different once - keep changing. But always vegan.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to Nusch

Ask Pjosh about methylcobalamin vs. regular cobalamin.

in reply to smurtaw

Smarty, how much is too much for the cancer…. Another one I want for my hubby, but worries me.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to

I'd only mess with B-12 supplementation if I was very deficient on blood labs. Talk to pjosh about it. I know he did a deep dive into the subject. I think that he said that if you have to take some B-12, methylcobalamin was better than cobalamin. LIkewise, methyl folate is better than regular folate. But again don't add unless you have to.

If you meant vitamin D3, I think that there is a good target zone. Too high might not be the best just as lower than 30 ng/ml might be too low. I shoot for 30-50. Note the units. Some labs report in different units and many countries use nmol/l (If in nmol/l divide by 2.5 to get ng/ml).

in reply to smurtaw

Thank you, I will take any tweaking I can get from everyone....I am new at Cancer and just trying my best....I always need help! Thanks Smarty!

jazj profile image
jazj in reply to Nusch

B12 has been shown to be pro PCa in some studies and the famous Dr. Snuffy Myers also was anti-B12 if I recall. Going mostly Vegan though I was concerned about B12 deficiency as you obviously are too. One study I read recommended going for a low serum level of B12 that isn't too low, 200-300 was the recommendation. I also got the app "Cronometer" for diet logging and it is far superior to MyFitnessPal or MyNetDiary. It uses more than one database and if you select entries with an NCCDB database entry, it has FAR more data than the labels, even has Omega 6/3 content. You can create custom foods from the NCCDB entry that most closely match labeled foods and modify it to more closely match the FDA label and then get better approximations on all the vitamins and minerals, amino acids, and lipids.

Anyway, being about 85% Vegan, I was shocked to find I was meeting my B12 requirements virtually every day even days I didn't eat any meat or dairy at all. A lot of the plant based meat substitutes have been formulated to provide adequate amounts of B12. So anyone on a Vegan or near-Vegan diet I tell them to not assume you need to take a B12 supplement. They'll probably need a moderate amount of Calcium, Magnesium, and Zinc though. I was surprised out of everything I was farthest from the RDI on Vit A even with a well balanced mostly Vegan diet. So started eating more carrots!

Curcumin (turmeric) is a great antioxidant/anti-inflammatory with supposed anti-cancer properties but as far as PCa the evidence to date is not very powerful, with many studies that show a benefit being done in vitro or in mice, not long-term human RCTs. You need to make sure you get a good bioavailable form (look up Curqfen CGM study for one that is low-cost via Life Extension Brand).

Here's one systematic review on Curcumin. Overall the evidence is leaning in the positive direction but with a degree of uncertainty.

scielo.br/j/bjps/a/cRhzQCnF...

Doesn't seem to make a big difference in the context of IADT.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/306...

"Six months' intake of oral curcumin did not significantly affect the overall off-treatment duration of IAD. However, PSA elevation was suppressed with curcumin intake during the curcumin administration period. Curcumin at this dose was well tolerated and safe."

Pomegranate has weak evidence regarding PCa context. There was the POM-T study that shined the spotlight on it but subsequent studies don't show a very significant benefit regarding Pomegranate and PCa. (Note I believe the POM-T study was funded by the maker of POM-T if I recall.) Like Curcumin, I'd classify it as one of those "on the fence" supplements being that it most likely will have some positive benefit but possibly negligible, and in the least will not promote PCa.

Example:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

"Pomegranate juice and extract are safe but did not significantly improve outcomes in BCR patients in a large placebo controlled trial. However a subset of BCR patients with the MnSOD AA genotype appear to respond positively to the antioxidant effects of pomegranate treatment. Phase II trials of 100% pomegranate products in neoadjuvant patients and patients with mCRPC were negative. A multi-component food supplement showed promising results in a phase II study in active surveillance and BCR patients."

K2, Omega-3, and Vit D3 - I concur should be at the top of people's lists to consider, especially if they are significantly limiting their animal protein and dairy intake (along with keeping tabs on their Calcium, Magnesium, and Zinc intake.)

When I spoke to the head of Integrative Medicine at Sloan Kettering he thought the only compelling combination he had seen was of turmeric, green tea, reservatrol and broccoli sprouts. Seems to all be about synergistic potential which your regimen has the most synergistic potential I've seen from anyone (obviously your intention.)

Nusch profile image
Nusch in reply to jazj

Many thx! I use Cronometer, too - great tool. I also check my B12 level all three months together with PSA and many other blood levels. My B12 is always between 200 and 250 - agree with all you say.

Regarding turmeric and pomegranate. I agree as well, but I‘m not only looking for PC survival but overall survival. According to some sources, around 30% of all warriors die of something else, mainly cardiovascular illnesses.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to Nusch

Precisely correct. Lots of use die from cardiac issues. My focus is not only on PCa but other things that are killers. Cardiac issues, diabetes, fractures, stability, etc. And I don't want to have brain deterioration. It doesn't run in my family but my ex-father in law had dementia, my father in law has dementia, and my wife's ex's father has dementia. By all accounts it really sucks.

I have a list of foods in excel and it pops out macros. Sometimes I use Cronometer though. Nice tool and I probably would have used it instead of laboring over my excel list but I didn't find it until after I was done.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to jazj

Thanks. I'll go through this later today.

in reply to jazj

So helpful, thank you!

in reply to Nusch

Nusch, your knowledge and good sense far surpasses you’re 18 years! How about it, doesn’t a good long run help your soul more than anything?! I use to love a good Marathon and the training involved❤️👏

Nusch profile image
Nusch in reply to

Of course, a good run is good for body & soul.

With your elaborate, complex plan....You must check your Liver and Kidney function at least once a month.. The blood tests to keep a close eye on liver and kidney function are: Serum Creatinine, BUN, AST, ALT and .s. Bilirubin. Also, add Alkaline phosphatase to these

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to LearnAll

I listed every supplement/drug that I have looked into. On any given day I only take about a dozen total. That includes Zytiga and prednisone when I take them, a blood pressure med (try as I might I don't have it completely under control!), and whatever other drugs I might be taking (I'm currently on BAT and sometimes take Casodex, Finasteride, use estrogen patches, Androgel and/or testosterone propionate or Cernos gelcaps, NPP and plan some more experiments with various anabolic agents, some others)

But I do check CMP at least once a month (lately it has been closer to once a week). My liver and kidneys are in good shape according to tests. I used to take more supplements and my kidneys were breaking down. It's important to check on things.

Some things I monitor with fair regularity are CMP, CBC, PSA, T, SHBG, FSH, LH, DHT, HsCRP, E1 E2 E3, PRL, D, lipids, DEXA scans, flexibility, vo2max, blood glucose, fat-free mass, and fat.

I occasionally monitor many other parameters.

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll in reply to smurtaw

Thats very smart that you monitor biomarkers frequently. Supplements are like drugs and are capable of effects and side effects.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to LearnAll

Yup. What's the point of beating PCa if my kidneys fail in the process? Dialysis patients live an average of 5 years. My mom was on dialysis. I think she got 5 1/2 years. It's hard on you.

KAgolf profile image
KAgolf in reply to LearnAll

and of interactions with drugs--check how things are metabolized to see if OK with Zytiga

In addition to vegan nutrition, Black Grape Shell Seed Extract Resveratrol, water with a pH value of 8.4 and organic tomato juice are my father's diet.

Went through your list more carefully. Can you provide any links to evidence you found that Coq10 could be a negative in the context of PCa? I only found positive evidence like this:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/231...

"CoQ10 therapy also significantly reduced serum PSA level by 33·0 (95 % CI 27, 40) % (P= 0·002). "

However I believe the marketing of it preventing muscle pain from statin use is disingenuous based on meta analysis of all the studies not supporting that contention. I believe It's still not something you want to have a deficiency in from a general health standpoint, let alone PCa context.

You obviously invested a lot of time researching. For others out there, one trick I found to uncover the best evidence is in quotes put the word "placebo" in your searches. It generally helps filter out the in vitro only studies and provides more human studies.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to jazj

Thanks for the placebo tip.

CoQ10 use is speculative either way. I think I had found a negative statin/CoQ10 study 2 or 3 years ago for PCa and potential detriment for statin therapy. I'm not sure though because it wasn't in my bookmarks.

Mostly positive studies. Not very conclusive. Some small RCTs. I am not certain that I want to take it. Will it counter the effect of statins on the mevalonate pathway? Or will supplementing with CoQ10 bypass this since it is an end-product and not an input? I'm not smart enough to figure it out and I haven't stumbled across any data to support or refute my guesses. What does it really do if you don't have rhabdo? Is part of the reason that statin cancer therapy is so successful (comparatively) partly due to the CoQ10 decrease? Or should I take CoQ10 because it "might" help mitochondria?

When in doubt, I usually err on the side of don't do it. Usually.... Definitely not always.

Two negatives:

CoQ10 supplementation would decrease this effect: The lack of CoQ10 resulting from statins may block normal cellular aerobic respiration and produce an abundance of free radicals, which are toxic to cells: Statins Limit Coenzyme Q Synthesis and Metabolically Synergize with MEK Inhibition in Pancreatic Tumors | Cancer Research | American Association for Cancer Research

aacrjournals.org/cancerres/...

Trend to significance in poorer breast cancer survival after chemotherapy: Dietary Supplement Use During Chemotherapy and Survival Outcomes of Patients With Breast Cancer Enrolled in a Cooperative Group Clinical Trial (SWOG S0221) - PubMed

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/318...

Small RCT showing a slight benefit for muscle pain: Evaluation of Ubiquinol on Mitochondrial Oxidative Capacity in Statin Patients Using 31PMRS - Study Results - ClinicalTrials.gov

clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show...

Moderate CoQ10 is preferred. However, the PCa risk does not appear to be substantial, and it is nonlinear: (PDF) Plasma Coenzyme Q10 Levels and Prostate Cancer Risk: The Multiethnic Cohort Study

researchgate.net/publicatio...

Possibly reduces statin induced myopathy or muscle pain: Effects of Coenzyme Q10 on Statin‐Induced Myopathy: An Updated Meta‐Analysis of Randomized Controlled Trials | Journal of the American Heart Association

ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161...

Null: Specialty Supplements and Prostate Cancer Risk in the VITamins And Lifestyle (VITAL) Cohort: Nutrition and Cancer: Vol 63, No 4

tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10....

Possibly stimulates the immune system: Coenzyme Q10 (PDQ®)–Health Professional Version - NCI

cancer.gov/about-cancer/tre...

Perhaps lowers inflammation: Effects of coenzyme Q10 supplementation on inflammatory markers: A systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials - ScienceDirect

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

Small RCT showing a slight benefit for muscle pain: Clinical Trial of CoQ10 for Mild-to-Moderate Statin-Associated Muscle Symptoms - Study Results - ClinicalTrials.gov

clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show...

jazj profile image
jazj in reply to smurtaw

I'm with you on the philosophy if there isn't significant evidence of a real benefit, better to play it safe and leave it alone. Your first two links have me rethinking Coq10 as I didn't run across those (but that's what this forum is for... info sharing.) It seems it was mainly made popular due to the theory of deficiency was the cause of the muscle soreness side effect of statins but there appears to be more recent evidence that's not the case. So then continuing to take this goes against my philosophy of too much antioxidants can help cancer survive. I'm well aware of the pro-vitamin A and Vitamin E showing to increase the incidence of lung cancer and low and behold, in that second link they are mentioned right along with Coq10. Maybe I'll just go to 100mg every other day instead of 200mg which is very low or just swap Curcumin for Coq10.

This is pre-diagnosis but my gut is that this conclusion on this one might hit the nail on the head. That study you referenced with the mice, who knows what the equivalent CoQ10 dose/serum level would be the equivalent in a human? 5000mg daily?

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

"The results suggest the possibility that MODERATE levels of circulating CoQ10 may be optimal for the reduction of prostate cancer risk; however, the findings were weak and not statistically significant."

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/302...

"Statin therapy appeared to impair mitochondrial complex-II-linked respiration, but the mitochondrial capacity for complex I+II-linked respiration remained intact. Myalgia was not coupled to reduced intramuscular CoQ10 levels. Intrinsic mitochondrial respiratory capacity was increased with statin-induced myalgia but not accompanied by increased ROS production."

Don't ask me what I think that really means. LOL. Doesn't sound bad though.

If there's concern about heart disease, seems that's probably the main reason to take some Coq10 with your statins (I've seen some evidence it helps lower chance of diabetes too.)

thieme-connect.com/products...

This one is a nice comprehensive compendium of study results. Of course most of the results show no change in PSA. Can't remember if I read it before. It may be the data behind the latest PDQ. Again, I think the "when in doubt, leave it out, is a good rule of thumb."

mdpi.com/2072-6643/12/10/29...

I always like to also see what Dr. Greger says (author of the book "How Not To Die") and in his book he says chlorophyll rich foods combined with sunlight exposure (not just for Vitamin D) help regenerate Coq10. Mayo Clinic says:

If you are worried that your coenzyme Q10 level is low, you can have it checked with a blood test at your doctor’s office. If it is lower than normal, then you may first want to consider making changes to your diet. For most people, eating at least five fruits and vegetables a day, fish two to three times a week, and nuts two to three times a week keeps their coenzyme Q10 level normal, even if they are taking a statin.

newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/....

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to jazj

Thanks for the links - good info. I'm right with you there. When in doubt...

I eat at least 5-15 servings of fruit and veggies a day. I eat fish 2-3 times a week and get some nuts a few times a week. I should probably get more sunlight. I'm kind of sporadic with that. Sometimes get hours a day and sometimes I don't even go outside.

I take 100 mg every other day. I'm not certain that I should continue but it probably doesn't make a huge difference either way. I'm going to research it more and talk to my MO (he's surprisingly good at discussing non-SOC therapies). I haven't measured serum CoQ10 in just over a year. I had been on statins or red yeast rice for a couple of years. My CoQ10 status was normal but it was in Q1 (820 ng/ml). I wish I knew if low was good for progression with my therapies or bad. If you ever run across a BAT+ study that used CoQ10 let me know :)

That is a really long list, centrum siver, k2, cq10,fish oil, citracal, tum, d3, vit c tablet, turmeric, omega3, bi-flex. Have to watch the calcium and potassium due to the xgeva. I do have a small glass of orange juice and banana if they are decent.

I've taken many of these over the past 10 years. I'm on Xtandi and Lupron.

Seems you provided a one stop encyclodepia of supplement use for PCa . I appreciate your dedication , research, and generosity on this subject. Bravo!!!

Daily: combo 8ozs juiced organic carrots celery and pineapple. 1 cup of broccoli sprouts

4 scoops good whey protein @ 24G each.

3-4 cups green tea, home made, no sugar alkaline water that I get from whole foods in my glass bottles.

2Tbs ACV

1 Tbs Black seed oil… I will list with my supplements list.

Smoothie with 1 frozen banana, 1/2 cup blueberries , strawberries.

2Tbs good olive oil

1/2 to 1cup of beet juice

Half to 1 cup cranberry juice.. organic not from concentrate no sugar added.

Watermelon ( thank God it’s summer)

1 cup of grapes

Plant based yogurt 1 every day with wild blueberries… everything organic.

Try for low to no animal protein and healthy dinners if I am not too tired!

SUPPLEMENTS:

Black Seed oil

750mg Curcumin

2 capsules per day BERBERINE complex

Omega 3 DPA 130 EPA 200 DHA 1,000

Nal responded to one of my questions regarding fish oil…Thank you Nalcrats!

Vit D3 5000 iu

Vit K2 100mcg

Turmeric

Curcumin

Boswella extract 100 mg

Mega B complex

Acetyl l carnitine

Melatonin before bed 60mg

Garçon is Cambodia extract

Luteolin powder

Dan Shen Root extract powder

TUDCA 500mg liver support

Lupron into his 5th month. Jim has stage 4 PC Mets to bones. We had no idea until last year. The normal urinary problems of a 70 year old led him to knowledge of cancer. His Uroligist at the time did not pick up on his rising PSA numbers over 3+ years. We are both smarter now, but not soon enough!😭

Follow Care Oncology

Joe Tippin protocol.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to

Thanks and a quick note. If you are not on a statin, look into it. If you don't want to take a drug, look into red yeast rice. It's very similar to lovastatin and works fantastic. HPF Cholestene is by far the best brand that I have found. I also recommend Cholestoff.

How often is Jim exercising? I was on pseudo-conventional ADT once and I know you don't feel like doing anything. As Nike says "just do it".

I bought a stationary bike and, when I did ADT, I would ride at a very slow pace for hours.

in reply to smurtaw

He is on a statin following care Onc. I stopped Jim's red yeast rice and also COQ10.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to

Good. Don't take red yeast rice and a statin at the same time. And don't take two different types of statins. Higher risk of muscle pain.

CoQ10 might interfere. I don't know but I opted to be safe so I only take a small dose of CoQ10 no more than 3 times a week. Say 100 mg every Sunday.

in reply to smurtaw

Yes, need to be safe as my husband has put his full faith in me....I can't let him down now!

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to

Stand by him and support him as you are doing now and you are absolutely not letting him down.

Sm

CAMPSOUPS profile image
CAMPSOUPS in reply to

Could we interest you in putting in a bio on your home page.I think you mentioned your husband had/has bone mets and the only medical treatment I see is Lupron.

Please invest some time in researching medical treatments as well. It can pay off when things change in the future.

If you feel I am stepping on your toes it is not intentional and I am sorry.

in reply to CAMPSOUPS

Not at all CAMPSOUPS i have invested Time, that is what brought me to this site a more traditional approach. Yes I have to spend time with Jims bio. At first the docs had no options for us. Tumors, stage 4 to the bones, just a sad story, a story we all can tell. We had no clue it was cancer until this past January. I am sorry about the bio, I can do this now, I am comfortable with all of you!

CAMPSOUPS profile image
CAMPSOUPS in reply to

No worries as far as the bio. Its not for me its for you so we can better relate to your condition. Jim's condition that is.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to

A sad story and a lifechanging event.

You said that I was young for PCa. I am. But I just looked at a guy's bio who has stage 4, did chemo, ADT, etc. and he's only 41. My surgeon told me about how he had just done RP on a guy who was 38. Ouch! Can you imagine? 38! I wasn't even married. I had no kids. I had a bunch of single gym rat friends and we'd go out every weekend. A high school friend of mine (football star, 4.0 student, prom king) died from brain cancer when he was 25. I think of really young guys with cancer and I don't feel good. But in a way it makes me feel blessed because I had my 20s, 30s, 40s, and most of my 50s to live life without this thing.

We are where we are though and have to move forward. Who knows? Maybe this extended my life because I now take a statin, eat even cleaner than I did before, and exercise more, have lower fat, and have dropped my blood pressure considerably and my cholesterol even more. Perhaps I would have been destined to die of a heart attack when I was 65. Taking responsibility for my own health has made me aware of how many issues I had 5 years ago. And how most of them can be fixed.

in reply to smurtaw

The young cancer stories make me cry every time. I told our son who will be 40, always check your zPSA and blood work every year. Jim was so strong and healthy no one ever would think it would be him. We have led a healthy life style for 50 years.

KAgolf profile image
KAgolf in reply to

even that's no guarantee-my hubby had yearly prostate checks and PSA checked and it was fine every year until it wasn't; perhaps saving grace might be it was caught about as early as it could be but still stage 4 and very aggressive--guess he should have had it checked every month! 🤨🙄😏 nasty disease

in reply to KAgolf

Yes, aggressive, I hate this!

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to KAgolf

Perhaps other prognostic tests, such as free PSA should be done periodically.

One of the giveaways for me was that my PSA was 11 and climbing. A dead giveaway was that my free PSA was 18% of the total PSA. Before I had a biopsy the doc told me that "you have prostate cancer. Now we need to find out how bad it is".

KAgolf profile image
KAgolf in reply to smurtaw

hubby's PSA was 3. 7 Sept. 2019 and 5.15 Sept 2020--they said wait 3 months (I HATE THAT STATEMENT!) to see if it's a fluke; 8.18 in Dec. and 10.43 in January 2021 on day of 1st ADT injection. Wonder what happened between Sept 2019 and Sept 2020? went up less in those 12 months than it did in the next 3 months

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to

I stopped juicing and i use vitamix instead. That helps me retain the all important fiber. Try to get more than 27 grams of fiber per day.

in reply to GeorgeGlass

George I agree. I will look up vitamix. Is that similar to blends of soluable and insoluble fiber. My thing with juicing is the amount of good stuff you get in just 8 ounces. It’s prob equal to 3 carrots a few stalks of celery and a cup of pineapple minus the fiber, like you said. ..Oh George hmmmmm! He use to take Res-Q land n sea fiber but I stopped it, just not sure about thir ingredients! Thank you for the advise!

in reply to

George, my other worry is, lots of sugar, even though it’s natural, sugar is sugar is sugar!

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to

Is it because of the blood glucose spike? There are simple ways around that. I spent months testing them on myself.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to GeorgeGlass

I use a frozen fruit blender to keep the fiber and everything else. I average over 40 grams of fiber per day (today it will wind up at 52). Rice, lentils, oatmeal, fruit, veggies. I recently had a colonoscopy and my doctor wanted me to get less than 10 grams a day. I had to go on a severe diet to get that low.

Polster profile image
Polster in reply to

Hi, Thanks for all info / advice . I note you say Whey protein , I thought whey is milk based and milk is bad for Cancer? Im confused.......

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to Polster

Whey and casein are milk proteins. Casein is the potentially bad one. Whey is the potentially good one.

Same source, very different.

Use of Proteins as Biomarkers and Their Role in Carcinogenesis – PMC

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

WHEY PROTEIN CONCENTRATE (WPC) AND GLUTATHIONE MODULATION

theperfectdermapeel.com/wp-...

Differential effects of casein versus whey on fasting plasma levels of insulin, IGF-1 and IGF-1/IGFBP-3: results from a randomized 7-day supplementation study in prepubertal boys – PubMed

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/194...

Whey Protein and Cancer: Friend or Foe? - Paul Hrkal ND

paulhrkalnd.com/blog/whey-p...

Investigation and comparison of the anti-tumor activities of lactoferrin, α-lactalbumin, and β-lactoglobulin in A549, HT29, HepG2, and MDA231-LM2 tumor models – ScienceDirect

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

Arsenic, Lead Found in Popular Protein Supplements - Consumer Reports

consumerreports.org/dietary...

Whey Protein May Prevent Prostate Cancer

webmd.com/prostate-cancer/n....

Use of Proteins as Biomarkers and Their Role in Carcinogenesis – PMC

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

A Milk Protein, Casein, as a Proliferation Promoting Factor in Prostate Cancer Cells – PMC

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Sorry I posted too quickly yes on a statin, not quite sure if I should have stoped the COQ10 as that with Orosine gives you so much energy! Here is my life...should I, maybe not, maybe yes Ok yes no no Oh no I made a mistake! I will listen to the many knowledgeable people I follow on this site, and ask lots of questions....The book that I read, actually twice, How to Starve Cancer, Jane McCleland, what a journey that woman went through!

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to

I'm not high on Jane. I read her book and dove into each drug/supplement. Most of them just plain do not have any good evidence of efficacy. And it makes no sense to me that you can starve cancer without starving yourself. When I read her book I noticed that she went through radiation and chemo and surgery but then claim that her supplements cured her. And then I talked to a nurse who used to work with her. The nurse claimed that Jane had breast cancer but fabricated the second cancer.

I will personally attest that she isn't always a nice person. Wow! If half of what she snarled at me were true, I'd have a special place down below waiting for me.

I don't think that some CoQ10 is going to kill you and if it gives you energy or reduces muscle pain, then go with what you know. Lot's of unknowns with it though. I think that it might interfere with the beneficial effects of statins (one of the proposed cancer-fighting mechanisms is CoQ10 depletion). But so not proven one way or the other.

in reply to smurtaw

The feeling that I got, reading Janes book was, if I had cancer, I would starve myself! I am sorry you had a bad experience with her....even If I am having the worst day ever, I try not to be a Karen....my name is Karen, Yikes!

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to

Lol! There is a lot of validity in starving yourself. If you starve to death cancer dies. RCTs prove that it works 100% of the time. I suspect it also works for kidney disease, heart disease and others. But probably not good for bone mass or muscle mass. And I predict that libido would go away - probably not a bad thing.

Meds:Zytega + prednisone (soon switching to darolutamide)

Lupron every 3 months

Alendronate every 2 weeks

Tamsulosin (Flomax)

Sertraline (Zoloft)

Tadalafil (Cialis)

Supplements:

Reishi Mushroom Powder (morning and night)

Omega 3 capsules (2100 mg total per day, divided between AM/PM)

Calcium 1500 mg per day divided between AM/PM (I consume very little dairy which is why I take this)

Vitamin D 4000 IU/Day (This is the dose I’ve taken for many years and keeps me right in the 40-60 range when I’ve had it tested several times)

Multivitamin

Vitamin E (gamma tocopherol form) 150 mg

Questions:

1. What is a good multivitamin people suggest to address the issues previously mentioned with the form of B12 and folate?

2. Should I include vitamin K? If so, how much?

Thank you!

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to AlvinSD

Good target for D and good form of E. Omega 3 is probably good to. I take 1-2 grams a day and split similar to you.

This is the multi I take: smile.amazon.com/gp/product... I don't know if it is the best but is a low dose one with good forms of B-12 and Folate and no iron that might potentially mess things up.

I'd take 10-30% of the RDA for K. K2 split between MK-4 and MK-7 forms. Most of the PCa research is for K2 but I've found a little on K1 also. One of the MK forms is very potent but not very bioabsorbable. I forgot which is which.

You probably get a fair amount from your diet. This is one I'm going to look into more at some time. Maybe larger doses used occasionally?

Anyway, this is the one I use: smile.amazon.com/gp/product...

Again, might not be the best, but seems pretty good and moderate to me.

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to AlvinSD

Are you taking cialis for sex or for cancer?

I don’t take calcium sups. My research shows it can do not harm than good. Take magnesium d3 and k2. The k2 transports calcium to the bones and avoids the heart. Calcium sups bring calcium everywhere, including the heat, where it can cause calcification. Many guys on this site agree with this and I’ve read it in several articles.

I take a few supplements, but have continued to whittle it down. At this point, it's Broccomax, Modified Citrus Pectin, Neem Leaf and the prescribed Zytiga and Prednisone and Flowmax. I also take a magnesium, old habit from standing too much as an RN and it helps with muscle cramps. Vitamin D was recommended, but I live in a sunny state and my levels have never dropped. I stopped taking a baby aspirin as most recent studies indicate it's contraindicated. I shouldn't say contraindicated, no indicated for someone without known heart disease.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to Vangogh1961

Hi, do you have any links for the contraindication of aspirin? Thanks.

Vangogh1961 profile image
Vangogh1961 in reply to smurtaw

health.harvard.edu/heart-he...

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to Vangogh1961

The article is for heart attacks. My PCP put me on baby aspirin 25 years ago. I told my MO about my use and he didn't say anything pro or con.

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to smurtaw

Since studies show aspirin might help slow cancer. I take it daily. Nal takes it twice daily.

wow.... just wow. And here I thought I was taking to many. This is an incredible list. Thank you for sharing.

Thanks. I only take about 10 of these at a time. I cycle many of the ones I use and listed lots of them just to display my data weighting.

That’s quite the list! I’m sorry but just not that melancholy. For almost 70 years been on a path of KISS. Keep it simple stupid. So it’s all about moderation and the path of least resistance and a strong believer that Holy Spirit guides my path. Trust in a power that’s greater than my wisdom. I do take a powered vitamin C in my orange juice in the morning. That’s about it. Other than that quality food that’s organic.Again thank you for your efforts for many who trust in supplements. I find it interesting. Cheers 🍻

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to anonymoose2

I don't trust the supplements alone. Certainly not to cure cancer. If you notice I take about 10 per day and that includes the MO drugs.

However, I think that they can help set up an environment that might not be perfect for cancer. And statins (or red yeast rice and Cholestoff) took my cholesterol from 200+ down to 130. My 15-year cardiac risk dropped from 14.2% to just over 7% according to AHA predictions. And some might help with other issues. Most of the ones I take have few or no side effects.

Faith helps. I do believe though that God helps those who help themselves. An ultimate plan? Yes. But that doesn't mean that I should stop trying (I guess that's part of my nature and part of the plan).

Maybe a more interesting point of view to shift to is which supplements to AVOID based on at least some scientific evidence? My own list is as follows. The only ones on this list I try to avoid in diet is Choline (mainly egg yolks) and Casein (mainly cheese - I have never drank milk for all my life - don't like it.) The rest I just don't include as a supplement.

Selenium (moderately controversial - some say good more recent data says bad)

Choline (mostly referred to in the context of egg yolks, pretty consistent evidence but not without controversy)

Casein (mainly from dairy possibly controversial)

nature.com/articles/nrurol....

frontiersin.org/articles/10...

synapse.koreamed.org/articl...

Vitamin E (controversial - some say good some say bad)

nih.gov/news-events/nih-res....

nature.com/articles/s41598-...

Vitamin B12 (if you aren't deficient - controversial, same say bad some say no effect) and Folate (Folic Acid - somewhat controversial) - I think these are indirectly related to possible positive effects of low animal protein intake which reduces B12 and Folate intake amongst other things.

jmedicalcasereports.biomedc...

academic.oup.com/ije/articl...

General caution about antioxidants in general and cancer prevention:

tcr.amegroups.com/article/v...

The hypothesis that the main benefit of statins in the context of PCa is Coq10 depletion is DRIVING ME CRAZY. Other than that one study with the mice, the overwhelming body of evidence regarding Coq10 and cancer or Prostate Cancer appears to be positive not negative. But like the statement from the Mayo Clinic said, if you eat a good diet, you should be fine on Coq10 levels even WITH taking statins. So to me it seems wise to not take Coq10 or take very low levels like 50mg/day or 100mg every other day (the half-life is 33 hours!) Not that even with a good diet, you might ingest like 5-20mg a day! So these supplements are like 10 times or more what you get in a healthy diet that would maintain adequate levels. I think the obsession with preventing things like muscle pain from statins and Alzheimers/Dementia has driven an exaggeration of Coq10 supplement benefits touted by the supplement industry. With so much chronic disease in America (a huge portion of the population being overweight/obese/diabetic), there's a huge hunger for a natural magic pill to avoid drugs and drug side effects.

As you can see, the highest content is Reindeer meat at only 15.8mg. In the plants, soybeans don't even get you 2mg and broccoli gets you 0.59. So as you can see, if you trust what the Mayo clinic says you probably don't need more than 5-20 mg of Coq10 in your diet whether you take statins or not.

superfoodly.com/coq10-foods...

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to jazj

I agree with most everything you said. I moderate choline and casein. If the evidence is weak, so what? I don't have any issues reducing my dairy and egg yolks.

Selenium is out until proven otherwise. E alpha tocopherol is out until proven otherwise.

Low CoQ10 or none.

I only found one study that suggests that one of the possible drivers of statin anti-cancer action is CoQ10 depletion. But it doesn't take much to tip my teeter totter. I was on the edge anyway. And looking at the avenue of action for statins, the mevalonate path is directly upstream of CoQ10. So what do I really do if I take CoQ10 and a statin? I have no idea. Statins reduce CoQ10, cholesterol and also a few other things. It "probably" doesn't hurt to bypass the CoQ10 inhibition. But I weigh that up with a what I feel is a very small likelihood of CoQ10 helping something. So for me, statins in, CoQ10 out. Until I see an RCT or at least a very good study of statin users with/without supplementing with CoQ10 (need doses of course).

What your doing is interesting as a survey but mixing actual studies with everyone's supplements seems like it can lead to misinterpretation. Because supplements, other than perhaps vitamin D3, C, A, B, and a few others have been studied at all, the relevance of various other natural supplements cannot be scientifically quantified for their value in impacting overall survival or quality of life.

I take numerous supplements myself and have done a lot of research over the years to inform my decisions but almost none have been published by the NIH in a study and certainly are not FDA approved. Unfortunately, there is a paucity of studies that are recognized by the medical establishment to provide any guidance on the efficacy, dosages, etc. for supplements and non-western remedies.

The study of supplements is not a money-maker for big pharma and supplements companies are doing just fine without spending money to fund studies. Prescription drugs are FDA approved and that is the "gold standard" for the medical profession, providing a level of confidence and lowered liability. On the flip side, their are recognized protocols for studies that lead to acceptance of the results by the medical community and this is what's needed for their acceptance and prescribing of supplements beyond the basics I listed above.

The list of your supplements and methodology for evaluating them is fascinating and quite an undertaking. However, using this approach to draw any conclusions about the use of supplements in the treatment for PCa lacks the recognized scientific protocols, fine as a personal choice but not for others to use for guidance.

I believe that sharing our experiences with supplements is fine but when you use this forum to start a quasi-study of the use and efficacy of supplements, based on a link to an NIH published article and what people are taking, that can lead to misleading conclusions.

jazj profile image
jazj in reply to dmt1121

I agree. One must keep in mind, "misleading conclusions" are a three-lane road. Conclusion that something is beneficial, that something makes no significant difference, and that something is harmful. As you point out, due to the lack of the same oversight as required by prescription drugs, each individual needs to arrive at their own personal conclusion based on various sources of information. There is however not a complete lack of oversight, it's just extremely marginal.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/318...

"Structure/function claims may describe the role of a nutrient or dietary ingredient intended to affect the normal structure or function of the human body, for example, "calcium builds strong bones." In addition, they may characterize the means by which a nutrient or dietary ingredient acts to maintain such structure or function, for example, "fiber maintains bowel regularity," or "antioxidants maintain cell integrity." General well-being claims describe general well-being from consumption of a nutrient or dietary ingredient. Nutrient deficiency disease claims describe a benefit related to a nutrient deficiency disease (like vitamin C and scurvy), but such claims are allowed only if they also say how widespread the disease is in the United States. These three types of claims are not pre-approved by FDA, but the manufacturer must have substantiation that the claim is truthful and not misleading and must submit a notification with the text of the claim to FDA no later than 30 days after marketing the dietary supplement with the claim. If a dietary supplement label includes such a claim, it must state in a "disclaimer" that FDA has not evaluated the claim. The disclaimer must also state that the dietary supplement product is not intended to "diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease," because only a drug can legally make such a claim."

dmt1121 profile image
dmt1121 in reply to jazj

Yes. It is a system slanted for drug approvals and to leave other remedies that may be beneficial for "super funders" to research. They must be purely interested in the advancement of the treatment and not the profit....not likely.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to dmt1121

I think you misunderstood what I was attempting.

I was sharing what I do. I'm not a doctor and do not pretend to be and I am not prescribing anything.

I am not running an RCT. I wasn't trying to pretend that this was some kind of scientific research on a grand scale.

If you only want to listen to doctors and follow their designated protocols, I have absolutely no problem with that. Tolerance is an important word in my book. We are all going to approach things in different ways. I have a young son and am going to do things that allow me to be active in his life and be a positive role model for his wrestling and weightlifting endeavors. My sites are set for 12 more years. I think I can do that and be active in his life. If I didn't have a young child I would probably be shooting for decades and wouldn't need to worry about being a strong role model. Your goal is likely different than mine and SOC might allow you to accomplish it. SOC ADT, chemo, or many of the anti-androgen drugs on their own, will not get me to my goal. Doctors are focused on longevity. They are not concerned with my personal situation, and I would be surprised if they were. Very illogical if they focused on short-term goals.

In addition to sharing what I am doing, I am interested in what others are doing. Be that strictly SOC drugs and therapies or supplements or diet or exercise or "fill in the blank". This might give me some things to study. I don't just look at a PubMed article and run with it. If I did, well I'd be consuming thousands of supplements and drugs. As it is I take approximately 10 a day and that includes a handful of SOC drugs.

dmt1121 profile image
dmt1121 in reply to smurtaw

I did not intend to come off as accusatory. My only concern is that there are thousands of potential approaches to alternative remedies and when you include a link to an article, published by NIH and also include a list of your extensive regiment, protocols, and assignments of efficacy, while asking for others to share theirs, it is unclear what the connections are between the article, your list and request for others to share theirs.

Having raised two daughters, I can only imagine how you are coping with your situation. It must be very difficult to balance treatment, quality of life, longevity and enjoy every moment for the time you have.

I wish that you and your family to have quality time enjoying each other for as long as possible. Enjoy life to its fullest!

BTW - I take Host Defense Turkey Tail and MyCommunity mushroom capsules based on some research I have done. The NIH had funded a study of Turkey Tail mushroom for treating cancer which was killed by the sequester some years ago. I am not expecting a cure but I have been defying the odds and believe it has helped.

Good luck to you.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to dmt1121

No offense. It seemed that you were expecting more from this than what I was. I have very simple motives for this. I am not trying to replace SOC or anyone's personal favorite treatments with my own. To do so would be playing something that I am not.

If you read my book you would see that I heavily prioritize government RCTs. If they are small, I note that. If they are large, I note it. I rank things by a number of things and by far large RCTs get the highest weighting. As noted though, it is weakly objective. It is my subjective impressions of RCTs etc. Then my subjective impressions are weighted in an objective way to arrive at a subjective/objective number. The number isn't always what I expect or what I would like, But if I modified them then it would be pretty much useless.

My definition of Supplements = 21st century Snake Oil...........

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 06/29/2022 7:38 PM DST

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to j-o-h-n

An apt description of 99.9% of them. I am on a hunt to catch that sneaky wabbit!

jazj profile image
jazj in reply to j-o-h-n

In most cases I agree. Every time a commercial comes up for CoQ10 basically saying "you must take this if you are on statins! - which half of America probably is" I roll my eyes.

Now that everyone has had a say I will add mine. You have an impressive list of supplements. I hope you are not taking all of them. I view supplements the same as conventional treatments, they eventually loose their effectiveness. I have taken many supplements over the years. One or two at any one time. As my PSA began to rise, I stopped what I was on and moved on to another.

For an older list here is a link:

mnwelldir.org/docs/cancer1/...

The NIH as you already know does research with all kinds of drugs and supplements

Good luck to all

jazj profile image
jazj in reply to Magnus1964

One thing also to remember is there can be interactions with prescription drugs. The more supplements you take (and more prescription medicines) the more permutations you have to cross reference for negative interactions. If you take 2 supps and 2 drugs, that's 4 possible interactions. If you take 5 supps and 4 drugs, that's 20 possible interactions. And that doesn't account for combination interactions which could make the number of possible interactions rise exponentially.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to jazj

Good point. I always check known interactions on drug sites and supplement sites. Dollars to donuts we don't know all of the potential interactions. I hope that testing and my own body will help me out there. If it doesn't, I'll stop posting...

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to Magnus1964

I cycle many of the few that I take. Two reasons: cancer might be adapting to whatever its environment consists of. And I like to give my organs a break.

I counted yesterday and this week I am taking a little over 4 doctor-prescribed drugs (blood pressure, cancer, and cholesterol) and 6 supplements a day.

Nice post. A lot more information than I can process in one sitting, but that's good. I'll come back to it.

Can you elaborate on "supplement contamination overwhelming the body"?

Thanks.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to jdm3

I added a reply but this page locked up on my computer. See attached image.

Supplements have toxins and heavy metals

I just printed this as a guide. This is wonderful work. I do use dan shen instead of aspirin or NSAID, I feel like it controls my blood pressure but who knows.

2 positive placebo controlled studies and one negative (short duration and time charts in one of the other studies show no effect though the shorter duration used).

So might be worth a shot. I have problems with my BP and now take some prazosin to control it.

A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study to evaluate the efficacy and tolerability of Fufang Danshen (Salvia miltiorrhiza) as add-on antihypertensive therapy in Taiwanese patients with uncontrolled hypertension - PubMed

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/218...

Perhaps not long enough study duration? Salvia Miltiorrhiza Root Water-Extract (Danshen) Has No Beneficial Effect on Cardiovascular Risk Factors. A Randomized Double-Blind Cross-Over Trial | PLOS ONE

journals.plos.org/plosone/a...

A Randomized, Doubleblind, Placebocontrolled Study to Evaluate the Efficacy and Tolerability of Fufang Danshen (Salvia miltiorrhiza) as Addon Antihypertensive Therapy in Taiwanese Patients with Uncontrolled Hypertension

tahomaclinic.com/Private/Ar...

niclosam.com/shop/

Hi smurtaw. I am trying to remember a specific compound that I believe you mentioned, one that preserves muscle mass, was not a SARM nor androgen directly, tough anabolic effects. Not Creatinine or Carnitine. Begins with a Ca---, I believe. Banned as performance enhancer. Can you help me recall so I can research further? Thx.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to MateoBeach

Hi, was it cardarine?

PPARδ is a hormone receptor that has roles in cancer, diabetes, and obesity. It has been determined that PPARδ is required for optimal cardiovascular function, production of energy, effective endurance function, and decreasing inflammation and obesity. Cardarine (also known as GW501516) is a PPARδ receptor agonist (increases PPARδ) and theoretically should decrease body fat and might increase HDL cholesterol (sometimes called the “good” cholesterol). PPARδ receptor agonists are regarded as exercise mimetics.

PPARδ has been shown to:

1. Assist in the prevention of heart disease.

2. Increase HDL and improve lipid profile.

3. Reduce inflammation

4. Decrease blood glucose levels

5. Act as an exercise mimetic

6. Improve insulin sensitivity

7. Provide greater fat burning capacity in fat and muscle cells as well as elevate energy at higher levels.

8. Reduce common inflammatory cytokines including Tumor Necrosis Factor in addition to macrophage-based inflammation.

9. Impede certain immune system factors, battle autoimmunity, and trigger weight loss.

It is important to note that cancer studies which examined the function of PPAR delta on cancer cells were conducted on mice and showed conflicting results as to whether PPAR delta encouraged or blocked cancer formation.

Some studies showed that Cardarine might cause liver damage. However, I took twice the studied dose and did not see any liver enzyme changes.

My personal experience with Cardarine is that a few weeks at 10 mg/day improves lipids and does not interfere with ADT (or the low phase of BAT+). HDL cholesterol increased and my lipid profile improved. I think that I lost some fat. When I stopped, my body fat increased.

References

1. PPARδ Elicits Ligand-Independent Repression of Trefoil Factor Family to Limit Prostate Cancer Growth | Cancer Research:

cancerres.aacrjournals.org/...

2. Increases HDL - Lipid effects of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-δ agonist GW501516 in subjects with low high-density lipoprotein cholesterol: characteristics of metabolic syndrome – PubMed:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/228...

3. Tumor progression via PPARδ:

mdpi.com/1422-0067/19/11/33...

4. Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-β/δ (PPARβ/δ) ligands do not potentiate growth of human cancer cell lines:

academic.oup.com/carcin/art...

5. The Role of PPARs in Cancer – PMC

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

6. Pharmacological targeting of exercise adaptations in skeletal muscle: Benefits and pitfalls – PMC

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/a...

7. No side effects known for Cardarine: Scheduling delegates' interim decisions and invitation for further comment: ACCS/ACMS, November 2017: 1.2. Cardarine | Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA)

tga.gov.au/book-page/12-car...

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to MateoBeach

YK-11 is another one. A myostatin inhibitor. I tried it and didn't notice any profound changes.

YK-11 is a myostatin inhibitor. Myostatin is involved in tumor growth, but studies have shown inconsistent results. Myostatin inhibits muscle growth. It is a protein responsible to put on the brakes in hypertrophy lest we spend too much of our metabolic capabilities on muscle maintenance. While this was an issue thousands of years ago, the opposite is true today.

My own experience with YK-11 is that a few weeks at 10 mg/day does not interfere with ADT (or the low phase of BAT+). I didn’t see any marked blood work changes. I didn’t notice any muscle hypertrophy.

References

1. Building muscle, browning fat, and preventing obesity by inhibiting myostatin – PubMed

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/220...

2. What Does Myostatin Inhibition Do? + Risks & Side Effects - SelfHacked

selfhacked.com/blog/myostat...

3. The effects of a myostatin inhibitor on lean body mass, strength, and power in resistance trained males - PMC

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

4. Myostatin inhibition via sulforaphane: Sulforaphane causes a major epigenetic repression of myostatin in porcine satellite cells - PMC

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

5. The effects of a myostatin inhibitor on lean body mass, strength, and power in resistance trained males

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

6. Non-genomic activation of ARs so perhaps contraindicated during ADT: Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator, YK11, Up-Regulates Osteoblastic Proliferation and Differentiation in MC3T3-E1 Cells

jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bp...

7. Myostatin Inhibitors: Panacea or Predicament for Musculoskeletal Disorders?

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

8. Interplay of adipokines and myokines in cancer pathophysiology: Emerging therapeutic implications

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

9. Myostatin Inhibition: A New Treatment for Androgen Deprivation-Induced Sarcopenia?

academic.oup.com/jcem/artic...

10. Pharmacological inhibition of myostatin and changes in lean body mass and lower extremity muscle size in patients receiving androgen deprivation therapy for prostate cancer – PubMed

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/249...

11. Myostatin Inhibitor YK-11: The Muscle Growth Breakthrough! Rochester Hills

universitypain.net/myostati...

12. YK11 SARMs Review: YK11 benefits, cycle, side effects, before and after results - Fingerlakes1.com

fingerlakes1.com/2021/10/06...

13. Myostatin inhibitors as therapies for muscle wasting association: Current Opinion in Supportive and Palliative Care

journals.lww.com/co-support...

14. Effects of oral creatine and resistance training on serum myostatin and GASP-1 - PubMed

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/200...

15. Myokine Expression and Tumor-suppressive Effect of Serum following 12 Weeks of Exercise in Prostate Cancer Patients on ADT

researchgate.net/publicatio...

Thank you. Yes, Cardarine is the one I was looking for. So interesting. Thanks for the links.YK-11 must be similar to epicatechin, as myostatin inhibitor? Creatine also has this effect but very short term. You are indeed a metabolic-astronaut (Metabonaut? Pharmanaut?) As am I, I suppose. Though some would say "Metabo-nuts". 🤣 I appreciate your personal research, boldness and sharing. Paul/MB

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to MateoBeach

Metabo-nuts could catch on. Particularly with my wife.

Pte82 profile image
Pte82 in reply to MateoBeach

MateoBeach, research collagen and copper for muscle mass and more.

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to MateoBeach

Have you tried epicatechin? If so, what dose and did you notice anything?

Thanks

Saved to this point as PDF, lest it be lost...

Thanks for posting!

I have finally been diagnosed with Prostate Cancer, after waiting two months for result of a Transpirneal Biopsy of Prostate, TODAY! All I can say is 💩is this what I have let myself into?I am not a VEGAN and no time going to be 'converted' into being so, I am a diabetes 2, terminal epilepsy, osteoarthritis, NF3, etc, etc, etc, etc, so have been through plenty of this painful 💩before, just retired, looking forward to it, then this💩comes along, a years rehab for this? So I suppose ask me again this time next year, how this eegit will enjoy his 67 birthday 👍

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to Adlon57

A punch in the gut for sure. I retired early, enjoyed my retirement for 2 years and then BAM!

What is your Gleason and stage?

There are some things that can make PCa "palatable". For the first 9 months I wasted away and felt worse and worse. You don't have to go down that road. However, it is a low-risk proven road. Some things you can do are natural and recommended by cancer.gov but I view others as calculated risks.

Adlon57 profile image
Adlon57 in reply to smurtaw

Sorry a bit sore at the moment, last six years, pure medical mess one after another, was looking forward to pension, I have been told early 7 out of ten, which is curable, like I said today so still naive about this condition,[have not read all the material that was given to me] I had a good friend of mine died last year, hit me hard early 80's one of the fittest people I knew! I know inwardly I will survive, I'm a stubborn bugger, been through plenty of serious medical episodes [durable]! The surgeon that did the biopsy, now in charge of me now, we hit it off, nice girl, I have at this moment a good GP, a good friend! I have schwannomatosis NF3 whereby I had schwannomas on my prostate, 2 1/2 years ago, BUT this might be just a coincidence, I was getting urinary problems then ? It is in the early stage, they seem 'cheerful' about it, my treatment starts in 3 weeks, medication included and a bone scan coming up, but my colourful medical history, my terminal epilepsy especially, a bit of a worry! I have been told to get in touch with MacMillan Cancer, but it has not really hit in fully! My finances are now 'steady' and I can get out now, vulnerably disabled, have been semi isolated, living on my own for the last two years!

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to Adlon57

Nothing to apologize for. We've all been there. I was happy-go-lucky, always with a smile plastered on my face. My wife called me the Disney Bunny.

Then this hit. I spent a month in bed playing video games.

A localized 7 is very curable. Mine is 9 and not local. I have lifelong treatments ahead of me. Yay..... Not

If I was in your shoes, I wouldn't take any risks. Educate yourself certainly. But you should be able to walk on that proven SOC road for a mile or so and then go off on your merry way.

Best of luck my friend.

Thanks for your optimism, good luck with your treatment 👍

Adlon57 profile image
Adlon57 in reply to Adlon57

Thanks Smurtaw, Apparently I have adenocarcinoma prostate cancer grade 7, with hormones and radiotherapy best option, there is alternative surgery but with my epilepsy, high risk? taking bicalutamide and an injection of Decapeptyl in small doses? Meant to be in early stages🤞

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to Adlon57

If we're going to get PCa, early localized is the type to get. I wasn't quite as lucky.

BTW: I had grand mal epilepsy when I was a teenager. 150 mg of phenytoin 3 times a day kept it sort of in check.

Adlon57 profile image
Adlon57 in reply to smurtaw

Smurtaw unfortunately I had epilepsy from the age of 14, after 400+ seizures found out last year, my next seizure will be my last, so not so lucky there?Beginning to get used to the PC bling, feeling a bit better mentally than yesterday

👍

You may also like...