Cranberry extract for prostate cancer?

[Nirman]

Is it safe to take cranberry extract when you have prostate cancer as it treats UTIs?

[pjoshea13]

It took me a while to add a cranberry extract to my polyphenol mix - it rarely comes up as a PCa supplement. But I'm a big fan. Cran-Max is the product that almost every brand offers, so shop by price rather than brand. [1]

I wrote about this 5 years ago. [2]

Absolutely safe IMO, but some will say to wait for the study.

-Patrick

[1] cranmaxinfo.com

[2] healthunlocked.com/advanced...

[Nirman in reply to pjoshea13]

But I’ve read it decreases psa your disease progresses while psa is down

[pjoshea13 in reply to Nirman]

It's amazing that clinical trials use PSA results to prove that a drug is effective, but when men use supplements they are told that a fall in PSA will mask the usefulness of the PSA test and that the cancer is still growing.

What does a drop in PSA mean?:

1 - perhaps the agent is acting directly on PSA to speed its metabolism? Do you have a study that shows this for cranberries?

2 - perhaps the agent is causing some cells to enter cell cycle arrest? Those cells are not dying, but not progressing.

3 - perhaps the agent is causing some cells to die?

-Patrick

[LearnAll in reply to pjoshea13]

Absolutely brilliant post..Patrick. I have been thinking about this issue for sometime whenever naysayers say silly stuff like "It masks PSA". Does that mean Chemo, Lutamides, Lupron also "mask" PSA when PSA drops.

[Hidden in reply to pjoshea13]

What clinical trials are you referring too that has an endpoint of lower psa and drug effectiveness?

[pjoshea13 in reply to Hidden]

A PSA50 response (50% decline in PSA from baseline] is common, I believe.

The latest such:

"177 Lu-PSMA Therapy in Metastatic Castration-Resistant Prostate Cancer"

"a PSA (prostate specific antigen) decline of ≥50% was seen in 10.6-69% of patients with mCRPC"

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/339...

Of course, there may well be other criteria, but why bother with PSA50 unless it is meaningful?

There are 34 ClinicalTrials hits where the "PSA50" shorthand has been used:

clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/resu...

often expressed differently, though.

-Patrick

[Hidden in reply to pjoshea13]

My only reply is this.While a p50 or greater psa response is a nice result of a treatment, it in no way says anything about the effectiveness of the treatment. Which is why taking any supplements that lowers one's psa should not be construed as pca treatment.

[pjoshea13 in reply to Hidden]

As far as BigPharma is concerned, if they specify PSA50 as an endpoint & no-one hits that, they are not going to waste money on survival data. They have more faith in PSA than you do.

[LearnAll in reply to pjoshea13]

Yes. All research papers keep declaring...so and so drug caused PSA to go down by 50% or 80%. PSA is still considered the most valuable marker by researchers.

[SeosamhM in reply to pjoshea13]

As always, your comments penetrate to the heart of the issue and the question of the true value of PSA at different points along a man's disease progression curve.

[Currumpaw in reply to pjoshea13]

Hey pjoshea13!

Well said. Stop taking a supplement that may be responsible for possibly achieving stability to ensure that nothing intrudes with the proliferation of cancer cells to obtain a more accurate result from a test that is deemed --inaccurate!

Currumpaw

[pjoshea13 in reply to Currumpaw]

Exactly! Best, -P

[dhccpa in reply to pjoshea13]

Around when will that cranberry clinical trial be completed?

[pjoshea13 in reply to dhccpa]

Alas, you & I will be long gone before it even begins.

Best, -Patrick

[Nirman]

Okay

[pjoshea13]

I'm aware of that post and I don't give it much weight.

On this site I expect that men have already had some form of aggressive treatment, but I need to add something for men who have intact prostates.

The thing that makes PSA a flawed screening tool, is that many aging men have BPH. Any treatment that removes BPH from the equation is going to invalidate the guideline for biopsy. The 'traditional' 4.0 cutoff is based on the demographic having some degree of BPH, & of biopsy having a 20% hit rate.

This subject has come up with 5ARIs. There should be a lower threshhold for those on Dutasteride [Avodart[, say. Even so, that doesn't solve the problem. At the time that I had a positive DRE, my PSA was 0.8. DREs have never been associated with timely diagnosis, but the PSA test doesn't help those with an otherwise healthy prostate. It's time to add something to PSA for screening.

The same problem exists for any supplement that reduces prostatic inflammation imo. e.g. cranberry extract,

Bottom line: I accept that cranberries can lower total PSA by lowering BPH PSA.

-Patrick

[Nirman in reply to pjoshea13]

Okay thank you

[Magnus1964]

I have been using cranberry juice and pills for UTI for years.

[Hidden in reply to Magnus1964]

Does the combo work? I'm guessing you use cranberry pills. How much juice do you drink daily?

[Magnus1964 in reply to Hidden]

I only use cranberry juice and pills (25,400 i.u.s) when I catheterize. I usually wash down 5 pills with a large glass of juice.

[Hidden in reply to Magnus1964]

Thank you sir.

[Tall_Allen]

sure, as far as I know

[Justfor_]

In regards to PSA50, it came as an unanticipated surprise to me when number crunching 20+ PSA values spanning almost 2 years it turned out that a 50% decline had less than 5% probability of being random.

[cigafred]

For some reason the "heart" button is not working (though it darkens when I hover), so I cannot "like" this Nalakrats post?? And this reply will not position itself right after the Nalakrats post??

[SeosamhM in reply to cigafred]

I've noticed that, too.... likely because this is a "response to a response"... or there's too much love on this forum and we need to toughen up! 👍

[cigafred in reply to SeosamhM]

Agreed

[Currumpaw in reply to cigafred]

Hey cigafred!

The "like" or "Luv" or "Heart" button--whatever one wants to call it doesn't work for me either!

Currumpaw

[dhccpa]

Don't even whisper that!

[miscdenver]

Here's some information about Curcumin, Resveratrol (Cranberry ingredient) and Ursolic Acid that might be of interest:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/282...

nature.com/articles/s41698-...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[WalrusReads3]

My RO has me drink cranberry juice for post radiation urinary symptoms.