Is it possible to loss weight? - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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Is it possible to loss weight?

Tmetz
Tmetz

Hello everyone,

Been battling the Beast for 5 and a half years.

First 2 years casodex, lupron, and zometa; the next 3 and a half years- zytiga, prednisone, lupron, and zometa.

I have gained 50 lbs during this time. I just found out that I am now prediabetic.

I realize that I have to exercise and watch what I eat.

My question is ... is it really possible to lose weight on these meds?

Would appreciate any advice and/or success stories to get me motivated.

Thank you all.

Tom

62 Replies

Sorry, meant to say lose

Yes Sir...but it takes commitment to diet and exercise...aerobic and weightlifting...

You don't need to go crazy vegan but you do need to be plant based and keep the calories to a net 1300/day. Get a meal/calorie tracker in the beginning to see how much you are actual consuming each day...important to keep protien between 80-100 gms/day when lifting...

I do the following:

1. IF 16/8 ( Intermediate Fasting - which is 16 hours of fasting per day and a 8 hour window for eating...so I eat between 11am and 7pm.

2. Plant based diet of mainly vegetables and plant based proteins...occasionnal meat mixed in.

3. Exercise at least 5 day per week...and vigorous aerobic exercise (METS 7 or more) Weight lift at least 3 days a week.

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to XPO1

Thank you

XPO1
XPO1 in reply to Tmetz

As you can see, you are not alone is the struggle to keep weight off.You'll need to figure out what works best for you. If you have never worked out before, a personal trainer might be a good investment in the beginning. Motivation and proper techniques are important for getting the most out of the workout sessions.

I do a net 1300/day because it's very hard to exercise properly and maintain a calorie restricted diet.

On the days I burn 1000+ in the gym I'm eating 2300 calories in 8 hours. That is hard to do on a plant based diet.

Oct18
Oct18 in reply to XPO1

I emphatically second that. I am 49 years old and have lost 15 pounds from switching to a plant based diet and exercising every other day. It takes commitment but you will feel so much better. I am at a very comfortable weight.

XPO1
XPO1 in reply to Oct18

Read your previous posts...are you still suffering from the fatigue you mentioned a few months ago? I'm at 19 months on Eligard and Zytiga and still feeling pretty good overall. Just the general blanket of fatigue with T < 1 ng/dl

Oct18
Oct18 in reply to XPO1

No fatigue for about 8 months. My T is surprisingly high 146. My Dr. is puzzled by it as my scans were good with no new spots yesterday, one has gotten a little bigger and will be treated with radiation. He thinks possibly my last lupron shot wore off too soon and caused my T to rise. PSA is 1.05 (.02, .04, .09, .33) over the last 9 months. Hopeful radiation to one spot on my tailbone will bring T and PSA back down.

XPO1
XPO1 in reply to Oct18

I see you do the 6 month...I do the 3 month eligard and the injection is in the tricep area.I read lots of complaints by member of this site with the abdomen injections.

I'm not much older that you (55 in Feb) but you being a single parent is a lot on you.

With all you are going through personally...that is a tough load to carry all by yourself.

But I'm sure the kids keep you moving so that is a good thing

Take care.

Oct18
Oct18 in reply to XPO1

Yes, they give me a reason to live. Best of luck to you too.

My personal experience on ADT was that my weight stayed about the same. I exercised fairly often before getting on Lupron and continued to exercise after. It was harder to do. I was more tired, more often, than before I was on Lupron. I could not exercise at the same level. Running four miles at medium speed was replaced by running one mile at low speed. But I kept it up and added some lighter exercise like more walking to try to make up for it.

I know from reports by others that my experience was not unique. Numbers of others on this and other forums have described how they worked hard at exercising and got good results in weight control and maintaining energy.

I believe that diet and exercise are needed more than ever on ADT and, if we engage in them, we can keep our weight down and our energy level up. From everything I've read, the scientific studies confirm this conclusion. It's harder to exercise on ADT, but it's even more necessary than when we're not on ADT.

Don't give up. Make the effort. I think you'll find it rewarding.

Best of luck.

Alan

AlanMeyer
AlanMeyer in reply to AlanMeyer

I should add that I tried to get a little extra sleep too - 9 hours a night instead of 8 hours. That helped keep me from getting worn out during the day.

Alan

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to AlanMeyer

Thank you, Alan

As others have said, yes it's possible through diet and exercise, but different people respond to these medications differently. I am some combination of lucky and strange and immediately lost about 5 lbs when starting abiraterone. I'm not the only member here to experience this.

I mention it because most people do gain weight on abiraterone, and it's not because they're all lazy and eat crap. Many cancer drugs make it more difficult to lose weight, so please don't get disappointed if it's difficult to do. Exercise and diet will provide benefits even if you don't meet your weight loss goals. I personally can't say enough good things about exercise.

Focus on the process of making healthy choices (diet and exercise) and let your body do what it will do. My 2 cents.

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to tom67inMA

Thank you, Tom

I lost weight but I also increased my activity level after I started ADT. I read somewhere that for regular folk it takes 3200 calories burned to lose a pound and for us ADT folk it takes 4500 calories. No idea if that is true but I lost weight, about 45 pounds between July 2019 and March 2020 which was towards the end of my RT which I biked to 41 out of 44 treatments. I don't get as much activity in during the winter so I tend to reduce calories more, in summer I can eat what I want as my activity increases. That said I am on the younger side of this group and was very active for the years preceding my dx. I agree with Tom above that enough can't be said about exercise. It clears my mind and gives me time to think. I believe it has kept me free of SE's like fatique, hot flashes and brain fog so far at least. It helps to find something you love be it running , swimming or biking and that's hard for some people but makes a big difference for sticking with it.

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to treedown

Thank you, Tree

Hello Tmetz. Loosing weight is one of the hardest things to do while taking these drugs & few people realize just how hard it is to have enough energy to go to the gym, but that is simply what you have to do, Exercise!

I have been battling this like many others here for ten years now & been on Lupron & casodex & even had two LU177.

Throwing weights around at the gym are great but just start on the walking machine, aero walker & rowing machine & you will notice the difference. Also watch the diet!

Good Health & keep on keeping on!

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to ARIES29

Thank you, Aries

I have only been doing ADT for 5 months...but have maintained my exercise routines (moderate during COVID - as I am avoiding gyms and those who don't wear masks properly)...and I cut back on the calories when needed if a small gain is noticed. Firmagon for 4 months...and 1 month on Orgovyx). Getting a dog has been great...his energy level has been contagious :)

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to JPnSD

Thank you, JP

Ahk1
Ahk1 in reply to JPnSD

How did you make the switch to orgovyx? Did your MO agreed to the switch? Where do you get it and how much? Thanks

Yes, you can lose weight on a whole food plant based diet. No meat, dairy, eggs, alcohol or processed refined foods.

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to dhccpa

Thanks

Find myself in that boat too. Almost 3 years in and now presiabetic and high blood pressure. I'm starting with portion control, fewer carbs and sugars and increasing exercise.

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to michael00

Thank you, Michael. Good luck!

exercise be starve a bitstop eating when still hungary

Actually before eating I put on my dish quantity I will eat...no more

no sugar no fried stuff

walk walk...

I feel tired but when I move no more...Tell your conditioned mind

forget about being tired ...a fake signal..

have a laughter

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to Karmaji

Thank you so much, Karmaji

Karmaji
Karmaji in reply to Tmetz

pcf.org/c/giving-cancer-a-b... simple way of starving PC cells

I lost 20 lbs during quarantine then hired a personal trainer to help me with building muscle. She put me on a 2500 calorie diet and packed muscle on me as muscle loss was concerning me. I then gained 20lbs, some muscle, some fat. Now she has dropped my calories to 1500 and weight is slowly coming off. I workout 5 days a week lifting and doing cardio. My diet consists of oatmeal in AM, protein shake after workout, salad for lunch and fish or chicken for dinner. Wife loves my new body and I feel more like a man again

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to mrscruffy

Thank you so much, Mrscruffy

Hi Tmetz. If you're pre-diabetic did your doctor mention Metformin?

I know a number of the men who post on this site mention taking it and from the little knowledge I have on this topic I know it is widely used when patients with all sorts of conditions present as pre-diabetic. It goes without saying you would need to discuss its use with your own doctor to ensure it is suitable in your particular circumstances.

We found out about it by accident when my husband was being considered for a trial at a major Sydney hospital (although not pre-diabetic but severely overweight) the Professor screening likely candidates strongly suggested its use. He explained that as well as being the current treatment recommended for pre-diabetic patients it is both an appetite suppressant and some evidence it might ( and he stressed the word might) have a favourable role in advanced prostate management.

I very much doubt our GP or any of the many specialists treating my husband would have thought to suggest it. Although not a suitable candidate for the trial, on this recommendation my husband ended up using Metformin coupled with 16/8 interval fasting and lost a significant amount of weight. Definitely the appetite suppressant effect helped in the beginning to follow this dieting regime. Obviously, exercise is also important.

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to marnieg46

Thank you so much, marni, will definitely check it out

marnieg46
marnieg46 in reply to Tmetz

Yes check it out on Web..lots of info . Hope you find what’s best for you 😊

Wow, that’s a lot of weight to add but 5 years is good 😊😊. I’m at 4 1/2 years and have gained 20 pounds over my normal 165. Can’t loose it but I’m alive so guess I’m a winner. Keep up the fight warrior 🙏🙏🙏

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to larry_dammit

Thank you

For me, the best part of exercise that I have noted, is that it is harder to eat when I am walking

NecessarilySo
NecessarilySo in reply to Ron53

Also harder with mask on.

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to NecessarilySo

So true

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to Ron53

I agree

I exercise daily and eat a healthy diet in order to maintain a normal BMI. But I’ve also been taking 2000 mg of Metformin daily as originally prescribed by Snuffy Myers about 6 years ago. I am not diabetic, he prescribed it for it’s anti cancer properties as well as to ward off metabolic syndrome which causes weight gain around your middle which is not healthy. I believe I’ve actually been able to shed a few pounds during this time. I weigh myself daily and if it starts to creep up due to eating more carbs than normal a reduction in carb intake for a couple of days normally brings me back to my target weight. I eat lots of fruits and vegetables, only brown carbs, and try to resist the temptation to eat until I’m stuffed.

Ed

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to EdBar

Thank you

I went on the nutrisystem diet a month ago at 247 pounds. I’m now at 226. It’s all about portion control and of course the related reduction in calorie intake. Exercise is important but most weight loss comes from eating less and eating right. My goal is 200. I’m 6’3”.

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to Break60

Thank you, congratulations

XPO1
XPO1 in reply to Break60

I never dismiss someone's dietary choices but one of the reasons I did drop teh South Beach diet was the use of casein in most of their shakes and foods.

consumerlab.com/answers/cas...

If you can avoid the foods with casein added, that would be the only thing I would recommend.

Also...ADT promotes muscle wasting. Without adequate aerobic and weight bearing exercises you may also be losing muscle along with fat...keep that in mind and maybe get a scale that measures total body fat along with weight. They are not perfect but can pick up general trends.

As Break60 said, the diet is probably more important to weight loss than the exercise. But do not discount the exercise, because it is MORE vital for other reasons (muscle mass, bone density, mental health, etc.)

Although it is a bit tougher to do than simply going vegan or reducing calories, many are finding a keto diet to work very well. I went from 200 lb to 160 lb in just a matter of months, doing keto and fasting. Here is the thing: it can be very tough to "adapt" over the first few weeks of the diet, and if you drop off it (as I did) it can be even tougher to re-start.

I find the same to be true of working out. I am not an exercise guy, but once I get into shape and make exercise a HABIT, it is quite easy to sustain. The moment you let that good habit drop, it becomes quite painful and frustrating to re-start when you realize how OUT of shape you got in just a few weeks or months.

Be aware that extreme diets can result in fast weight loss, but if the diet is unsustainable then you will go off it and likely regain the weight. That is what happened to me, because mine was a very low-cal keto that was almost a starvation diet at times. I felt great when I was on it, but after I dropped off, all I wanted to do was eat... and eat!

So if you are at all a "food addict" as I am, just giving up your addiction cold turkey may result in it coming back even stronger. So a diet that you can SUSTAIN is preferred, which means the results may be slow and steady at first, but that is better than exciting results that are only to disappear!

By all means, any diet should try dropping the simple "white" carbs of flour and sugar in their junkiest forms. But I see it as easier to give up ALL grains and grain-products, because I can over-eat "whole-grain" breads and pastas as surely as I can over-eat pretzels and pancakes and pastries.

The other thing I found is that my hunger and cravings are reduced most when I eat absolutely NOTHING at all. When I was able to water-fast for two or three days in a row, I rarely felt hungry, which seems quite amazing. On the other hand, eating just a few hundred calories would prompt serious cravings for more food.

So many suggest fasting as a good way to enter into to a keto or other low-carb diet, because it gives you a chance to reset your mental expectations of "feeding time." Then, it will be easier to go with the very beneficial habit of time-restricted eating, as XPO1 described.

If you were to make only a SINGLE dietary change, this might be the best: cram all your calories into two meals within a small (4 hr to 8 hr) eating window, and then consume NO calories in the other (16-20) hours. This gives you benefits of fasting EVERY day.

If you are like me, you may tend to graze for all your waking hours from first waking to right before bed, and only NOT eat while sleeping. Every time you eat, you get an insulin response, and that tells your body to store fat. It also helps lead to insulin resistance. Both the reduction of carbs and the reduction of the number of TIMES you ingest those carbs should improve your declining insulin status. Good luck!

Break60
Break60 in reply to noahware

The nutrisystem diet does the opposite: you eat five to six times a day so you’re never “ starving “.

I gained 50 lbs of weight by barely eating all day then stuffing myself in the evening. After dinner I was still hungry so ate crackers and cheese or it’s ilk and drank at least a bottle of wine or four gin and tonics.

This time I’ve stopped all alcohol as well as switched to nutrisystem and I work out at least every other day with about an hour of cardio , a half hour of resistance exercises ( lower body one day, upper body the next) and 10-15 minutes of stretching. I have always worked out but it does not stop weight gain if you eat poorly and too much.

Being on hormone therapy( estradiol) I can’t gain muscle ( my T is 3!) but it keeps me toned and in half way decent shape.

Bob

noahware
noahware in reply to Break60

My problem is, I can be eating all day then STILL stuffing myself (or drinking beer/wine) in the evening. For me, eating is only partly related to hunger... also related to mediating emotions (like ALL addictions).

The only way I have ever felt a complete cessation of "hunger" (or more aptly, "craving") is to stop eating altogether for a day or two!

Of course, there are MANY ways to merely "lose weight." I do believe, however, the reduction of frequency of insulin responses is probably beneficial to our health in ways other than potential weight loss.

[I have also read that putting all or most of your eating earlier in the day is better for you than shifting it into the pm... so you need to have those gin&tonics for BREAKFAST, lol!]

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to noahware

Thank you

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to Break60

Thank you

MateoBeach
MateoBeach in reply to noahware

Perfect advice fellow keto-IMF guy. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to noahware

Thank you

Yes sir, I just lost 20lbs from 1/13/2021 to 2/13/2021. (260 to 240). On my own diet.

BTW my best fighting weight is 200 to 210 Lbs at 6'1"....(ask my ex-wife, she'll attest to that)...

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Tuesday 02/23/2021 4:53 PM EST

XPO1
XPO1 in reply to j-o-h-n

Unless that 20lb loss is accomplished by having your wife hold those breasts of yours while you are on the scale..I don't believe it. 😜

j-o-h-n
j-o-h-n in reply to XPO1

It's true.....(and funny)...

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Tuesday 02/23/2021 5:32 PM EST

XPO1
XPO1 in reply to j-o-h-n

That is good news. By the picture Kaliber posted, he chose the lobotomy route.

j-o-h-n
j-o-h-n in reply to XPO1

That's my next approach..... Dual, me and the ex-wife...For her it's and easy procedure cause 1/2 is already gone.....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Tuesday 02/23/2021 5:41 PM EST

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to j-o-h-n

Thank you

XPO1, laid out a good plan--but I would add, no outside sugars, and avoid all Dough/Flour Products, that gets converted to sugar, in the body. Eat high Protein, substitute, Whey Isolate Protein Bars, if needing to snack---nuts have too many Fats/Calories. Fish, Chicken, and Beef OK, for protein sources. Eat at night big monster salads/w veggies. Eat your biggest meal, which should be High Protein, and that is for your Breakfast. Avoid commercial Diet products/plans. You can do it naturally. And the Bible outlines a Proper Diet as given us from God---Eat Kosher Style.And learn how to become a Gym Hog!

Nalakrats

All good advice above...except I was advised NOT to lift weights due to my 6 bone mets. I dont want to go putting stress on any of those. Prefer to swim. but to each his or her own..best wishes...I've been on Zytiga 75 months, and yes it's hard to loose weight but can be done. I'm a bad example though for weight loss, got to work on it, starting walking two miles/day

Tried a few things with partial results. Then tried ketogenic diet with intermittent fasting (OMAD or one meal a day, only eat at dinner all I can or want to eat, but mostly keto.) Went from 188 lbs to 142 without any sense of hunger and tons of energy from burning my fat stores. Research it online such as the free content on DietDoctor.com. Or the Keto Bible for Kindle. Worth a try. Lots of evidence it is healthful. A different mode of metabolism for ancient hunters is latent in all of us. Be a hunter and take long walks every day.

Tmetz
Tmetz in reply to MateoBeach

Thank you so much

Contrary to all the veggies out there .......I have been on a Zytiga and Lupron for almost 2 years.

Went on Keto (oncologist studied it and tried it) and never looked back.

Lost 30 pounds and Doc’s are surprised but ok with it. Monthly bloodwork is outstanding. PSA is undetectable. Had Gleason 10 before prostatectomy in Jan 2019. Check out Duke Medical Lifestyle for Keto support.

Keto can get bad rap from traditional nutritionist but newer thinking is showing it is okay. No hunger or energy issues. Helps with weight. Fresh veggies are ok but carbs are a BIG issue.

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