Dad/Heart Risk with ADT. Almost 3 ye... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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Dad/Heart Risk with ADT. Almost 3 years in PSA good.

DaughterOnAMission profile image

Hi all! Checking in, now almost 3 years now since diagnosis for my dad. PSA17, G9. Lupron and Zytiga (4) plus prednisone (5mg) daily since mid 2018. 28 sessions of radiation also in early 2019.

I'm worried about cardiovascular effects and weight gain. His belly is very big now. He has changed a lot in this time but PSA went from 17 to undetectable and has stayed there.

How can he control the belly? And avoid a heart attack?

He is taking Crestor (10mgs/week). He's 75 and I'm trying to get him more active but would dexamethasone be better than prednisone?

Not sure if a vacation or reducing the Zytiga by 1 is worth it...? He looks unhealthy and both his parents died under 80 of heart and stroke. PC seems to be under control at this time. No Mets.

Thoughts? Would appreciate it greatly.

46 Replies

Lots of us adt guys developed the big belly syndrome , along with a long list of other physical issues. There will probably be some replies talking of diet and exercise to follow that could help as well. Generally tho ... all of us on adt worry about heart attack and / or stroke .... because adt can cause unstable cardiac and blood glucose .... blood pressure problems in many men. Some things you can do at home are keep a close eye on your fathers blood glucose levels with a home finger prick tester. Buy a high end home blood pressure test machine and go in and get the free cardiographs supplied by your medical provider . Also you can buy a Kardia home ekg ( that works to an app on your smartphone) to keep an eye on changes to your fathers cardiac rhythms at home.

My blood pressure , my blood glucose have been dramatically altered by adt treatment. I have adt induced high blood glucose now too. I have to adjust my heart meds and blood glucose meds frequently . If you monitor and track your fathers blood sugar, ekg and blood pressure and keep them in the lower range of normal all the time, you minimize the likelihood of stroke and heart attack. You give him the best chance you can .

I check my blood sugar several times a week, my blood pressure several times a week and use my Kardia ekg device every week or two.

in reply to Kaliber

Some develop a Big Head and possible Big Boobs. I just wish more develop a Big Sense of Humor too like you Mon Ami.

Kaliber profile image
Kaliber in reply to

Yea , I’ve got all that ...plus the shrivels .. the works. I’m the poster boy for adt side effects yayahahahaya yayahahahaya. Well thank you my brother , you are just as funny as anyone on here. .... well, maybe j-o-h-n is the master but you hold your own with him ( ewwwww that’s nasty ) 😱😱😱😱😂😂😂😂

Love ya brother ❤️❤️❤️❤️

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply to Kaliber

BTW. One day XPO1 was holding his own and wanted to hold mine too. I refused since there's not enough of my own for the two of us to hold my own....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Tuesday 01/19/2021 7:01PM EST

Belly circumference of more than 90 cms (40 inches) is a strong sign of Metabolic Syndrome. And that raises one's risk of Heart attacks, Strokes and Diabetes significantly high.The most effective way to lose weight is by reducing calories one eats . Once calorie intake is seriously reduced , the body starts to utilize fat stored in the body.

Fatty acids and Amino acids feed growth of prostate cancer cells . So, reducing these in food will also help control Prostate cancer. Animal proteins and animal fats are particularly cancer promoting.

Increasing vegetables, fruits and other high fiber foods not only reduce calories and control belly size...they also slow prostate cancer growth by providing polyphenols, flavanoids and many specific micro nutrients.

The most beneficial foods for PCa are...Cauliflower, Cabbage, Brocolli, Radishes, Green and Black tea, Berries, Guava, Green and Red Chilli peppers, turmeric, Ginger, Onions ,Garlic etc.

When on ADT, its harder to lose weight but with discipline in diet and exercise, it is certainly possible.

Nalakrats profile image
Nalakrats in reply to LearnAll

Sorry, I do not agree with you adding Amino Acids, to your no no list. They are the building blocks of all cells in the body that need replacement when older cells die off. Essential Aminos, Must come from Foods, and non-essential, the body is suppose to make--but when compromised due to age and disease, they also start becoming essential.

Nal.

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll in reply to Nalakrats

I agree that amino acids are very important.. But plant based proteins are preferable due to stale, packed and stale animal body parts available in stores now a days. Plant sources of amino acids include all kinds of lentils, beans, chickpeas, green peas, algae and many more. Average Human body requires only 1 gram protein per kilogram of weight. Athletes like you require 1.5 grams protein per kilogram of weight.

Excessive amount of protein ends up burdening kidneys and may result in increased BUN and Creatinine. I guess small amount of animal protein should be OK. I do eat Fat Free Yogurt every day. With all this, still 4 lbs above Ideal weight.

BTW..our kidneys are already under pressure from so many medicines we need..

Nalakrats profile image
Nalakrats in reply to LearnAll

Sorry I am not able to really educate you especially on use of Amino's that only come from meat. As well, B-12 from Vegetable sources is not useable, by the body, you need it from meat sources, as well iron from Veggie sources are not of value, only Heme Iron from Meat---you have not read previous Posts of mine about a year ago, or so, on this subject--where I lay out the negatives, of being a Vegan, but also indicate how to do it with the right supplementation. If all hung up on being a Vegan--then you need to add, Whey Isolate Protein Powder, Sublingual B-12, and Heme Iron Supplement. Will do you well!

Nal.

dhccpa profile image
dhccpa in reply to Nalakrats

I always absorb what you have to say. I do eat fish (about 15 oz. Max every 8-10 days. B-12 is normal, iron is normal.

I did take heme iron recently while doing an artemisinin protocol.

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply to LearnAll

does that formula apply to the 30+ extra fat pounds????

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply to Nalakrats

what is your list of most appealing proteins

in reply to maley2711

Rib eye , medium rare

Filet Mignon. Medium rare

Sea Scallops, pan grilled

Shrimp. Pan grilled

Oysters. Smoked

Last and not least,

chocolate ice cream, 2 scoops

Nalakrats profile image
Nalakrats in reply to

Oysters, Shrimp, Scallops, NOT KOSHER!

Nal.

in reply to Nalakrats

Excellent! I'll have yours.I do use KOSHER salt

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply to

You forgot your favorite:

Korean style homemade peasant and cat

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Tuesday 01/19/2021 7:11PM EST

in reply to j-o-h-n

The request was for most appealing, not most appalling proteins.

in reply to

However, with a little KOSHER salt, they may make the list of appealing proteins.

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply to

opps got my merds wixed........

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Tuesday 01/19/2021 7:43 PM EST

in reply to j-o-h-n

I think Nal is traveling north in his car to throttle the both of us.

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply to

He doesn't drive.... His chauffeur drives him in his 2021 Rolls.....(FYI. They eliminated throttles in cars years ago),,,,,,

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Tuesday 01/19/2021 8:03 PM EST

in reply to j-o-h-n

Is that an Italian Rolls or French Rolls?

in reply to j-o-h-n

I think Nal's Kosher drives a 2021 Rincoln on Saturdays and a 2020 Cataract on the rest of the days

Nalakrats profile image
Nalakrats in reply to maley2711

Do not know what you mean by appealing!

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply to Nalakrats

appealing in normal sense...but meeting your standards healthwise? some folks might love 30% fat burgers, but healthwise??

Nalakrats profile image
Nalakrats in reply to maley2711

Just don't eat the cheese and the bun at McDonalds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply to Nalakrats

seriously...you disagree with the stringent diets?

Nalakrats profile image
Nalakrats in reply to maley2711

Yep---moderation, moderation--->the key to a long life

Nalakrats

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply to Nalakrats

I'm surprised...but I like it!!

dhccpa profile image
dhccpa in reply to LearnAll

Yes I've lost 30 lbs since switching to whole food plant based diet. It can be done!

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply to dhccpa

is that a lower cal diet than your previous diet before the weight loss?

dhccpa profile image
dhccpa in reply to maley2711

I don't count calories, but I assume it is. Once you eliminate things like alcohol, eating out, dairy, and packeged/refined/processed foods, you find you can pretty much eat what you want if you are consistent.

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply to dhccpa

what would your typical dinner be?? Interested in eating all I desire and still losing weight!!

dhccpa profile image
dhccpa in reply to maley2711

I tend to cook various variations on 1. Beans and rice mixed with changing combos of veggies and spices (I have an Instant Pot). 2. Various combos of whole grains (the groats, unprocessed) with combos of fruit mixed in.

Those are my two staples. I also eat about 15 oz of oily fish spread over 3 days every 7-10 days.

For snacks, i eat plain popcorn (no oil, but with salt), radishes, celery, carrots, leeks, onions, etc., nuts, fruits, and so forth.

As alternative meals, I'll cook whole potatos or sweet potatoes.

I do consume oils but usually modestly as a teaspoon or tablespoon size, for calories and heart healthy aspects (unheated).

That's about it, but I'm sure others have unleashed many creations.

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply to dhccpa

Thanks.....do these dishes provide you with 60-80 grams of protein daily? Maybe a somewhat difficult challenge for someone diabetic? I guess I should try to lose my sweet tooth and switch to your snack suggestions.......evening tea with popcorn?hmmm?? Also, I have a bean problem !!!

in reply to maley2711

Have you considered adding pea protein to you daily diet regiment?

I use plnt pea protein brand (Vitamin Shoppe) ...it's about as pure pea protein as you'll find...it mixes great and doesn't have a gritty feel to when mixed. Use two scoops (25gms of protein) and add 2-3 cups of spinach, whole ginger root (organic) and fruit (blue Berries and lemon, mango and kiwi, dragon fruit etc) I have a Vitamix 5000 so the peels/skins go in also... I then split it across lunch and and post workout. about 160 cals a serving with 15-18 gms protein per serving.

dhccpa profile image
dhccpa in reply to

I haven't used yet but it's something I'll take a look at.

in reply to dhccpa

If you do decide to purchase it make sure you buy the plnt pea protein and not the plnt protein.

Most of the vegan protein powders are riddled with extras to get it to taste right and blend nice. That's why I chose the plnt pea protein because it had the least amount of that stuff.

dhccpa profile image
dhccpa in reply to

Thanks will do. I subscribe to Consumer Lab so i believe they have tested brands

in reply to dhccpa

I notice we are both on in the morning. Are you in the Eastern Time Zone too?

dhccpa profile image
dhccpa in reply to

Yes Florida

in reply to dhccpa

Ah...good deal...im waiting for the next real estate market crash to pick up a property.

dhccpa profile image
dhccpa in reply to maley2711

I dropped dried fruits like raisins for the most part due to sugar contents. Farting seemed to subside a bit after eating beans daily. Yes, I thunk the beans and grains provide close to my protein needs, but you could always eat a small can of tuna, salmon, or sardines regularly.

How much does he exercise and what kind?

I also am 75 and am a Gleason 9 with barely detectable PSA. Dr. Myers put me on Metformin which helps with weight and also insisted I take a statin, in my case Lipitor generic for heart disease. When I was diagnosed I was fanatic about working out which helped me greatly. I fell off the workout wagon somewhat during Covid but have returned to hard swim workouts and am holding my weight at what I was when I competed in Triathlons...To control the weight and feel better first limit what you put in your mouth. Lots of fruit and vegetables and little refined sugar products. I eat red meat, but small quantities. Once you get your weight down you stomach shrinks and it is not hard to avoid eating too much. If your Dad cannot do anything else, get him to at least start walking.

My situation was in some ways similar - gained 25 - 30 lbs on zytiga over 2 years.

On "vacation" since August. At suggestion of UO, am intermittent fasting (eat only from noon - 8:00 pm), only water or coffee at other times. Increased plant based diet, some days a big salad for a meal. Losing about 4 - 5 lbs/month. Walking increased to 1 to 2 miles/day. Like this approach because there's no counting or restrictions - just limit your eating hours. Was difficult to adjust (really hungry) the first week or so, but now happy to start day w/ water and lots of coffee.Much (most?) of the weight loss may be due to "vacation" from zytiga, maybe it's from walking more, or from my slightly more healthy diet - but it's working for me.

Hope you find something that works for your dad.

Thank you everyone for the comments, he is walking and every winter I take him skiing. He always works in the garden, shoveling tons of dirt but works a fulltime job from home so I've been pushing him to get active. He is making healthy smoothies and avoiding carbs now that I scared him earlier this week. Bought him a new scale and measuring tape.

Appreciate your guidance to keep him healthy! This forum is amazing. Thank you. You all have kept me sane and educated since day 1.

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