MICROBIOME TRANSPLANTS--A NEW WAY TO ... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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MICROBIOME TRANSPLANTS--A NEW WAY TO FIGHT CANCER TUMORS---OR HOW I CAME TO LOVE FECAL IMPLANTS.

Nalakrats
Nalakrats

Microbiome definition[meaning the microorganisms found in a specific environment, that has distinct Physio-Chemical Properties].

A group of Israeli Oncologists have found that changing the Microbiome can reprogram the immune System to attack malignant tumors. This data comes from Clinical Trials at Sheba Medical Center in Israel. Results were published and Peer Reviewed and can be found in-->Journal Science.

This is a first never tried before endeavor, where the researchers fought all types of cancerous tumors, by changing the Gut Microbiome[Tens of Trillions of Microorganisms living in your entire Gut]. Whereby Diet, and other Ingested substances play a role in the make-up of ones Gut Microorganisms. Now currently reported by this writer, and others on HU, Immunology having high hopes for cancer remissions, recessions, and cures--->seems to never work for more than 30-40%, or less, of Test Subjects, across all cancers, which is yet disappointing.

The Israeli Oncologists performed Fecal Microbiota Transplantation, on very terminal ill patients with Metastatic Melanoma who had exhausted all other immunology and other types of treatments.

In the process, the researchers eradicated the patients Microbiome[how this was done was not described]. Then they transplanted Gut Microbiota from Cancer Survivors who also had Melanoma, but who had responded very well to other types of Immunology--->and key here---> these survivors were cancer free for one year. After 2 weeks of the Donor Microbiome was planted by colonoscopy, and the patients has completely absorbed the Donor Microbiota, they resume their varied last Immunology Treatments that were failing.

One patients tumors completely disappeared and has been cancer free for more than 2 years. The others had tumors that shrank more than 50%. In evidence gathering--->the team saw an increase of immune response on a cellular level, as well as in Gene Expression, on the patients that responded well. The clinical Benefit was to see if this type treatment was safe and feasible. The team has moved on to Lung, Breast and Prostate Cancer. As for side effects none were reported.

As I have pressed; all immunology techniques, this one being very unusual, We need to identify the markers[whatever they be], identifying which patients will benefit, from any and all Immunology Modalities. The researchers can see this particular technique combined with other or another Therapy. We seem to be having the same results occurring with all of our immunology methods, as well as BAT, and certain drug combinations. Why do these treatments work for the 30-40%, or less for a group of patients and not others. The answer IMO can be found in the Genome[All the Genes & Non-coding DNA, as well as the Mitochondria & Chloroplast DNA].

Thought you all would enjoy this, as another new technique, but my Fecal Matter is not up for donation, at this time!

Nalakrats

61 Replies
oldestnewest

That cat has not missed any meals.

Nalakrats
Nalakrats in reply to abmicro

True, he does not follow LearnAll's diet--but we have never seen a picture of him.

Nal.

LearnAll
LearnAll in reply to Nalakrats

Guru Nalakrats...you motivated me to get CRP to undetectable. Yesterday, I got the lab results. C Reactive protein is <0.1. Diet and supplements are working.BTW, in USA ,fecal implants are being used for Ulcerative Colitis treatment.

Nalakrats
Nalakrats in reply to LearnAll

Glad to help motivate you!

Nal.

LearnAll
LearnAll in reply to Nalakrats

I am 148 lbs, Trying to get down to my ideal weight which is 144 lbs. (height 5' 6" )Once I achieve that I might post a picture. Also , Trying to get BMI down from 24 to 22.

Nalakrats
Nalakrats in reply to LearnAll

I cannot wait to see what you look like---4 more pounds--you can do that on a water diet--and get there quickly.

Nal.

LearnAll
LearnAll in reply to Nalakrats

I am trying to do it by diet and physical exercise. Losing four pounds is easy with appetite suppressant, Phentermine hydrochloride , But I am avoiding use of pill.

Nalakrats
Nalakrats in reply to LearnAll

You are tenacious--you will get there!

Nal.

I guess this is the paper: DOI: 10.1126/science.abb5920

My Swiss doc has been trying to sell me this for the last couple of years (in addition maybe boosting the immune system to fight cancer, it might help with cardiovascular health, etc. etc.) He uses young clean "donors" to collect the fecal matter, tests for disease, then you get 3 "injections" spaced over a few days. Should help re-program your immune system. But this is for normal healthy-ish patients, he does not do anything to kill your existing microbiome. Relatively expensive even by Swiss standards.

This kind of procedure I believe is only official approved for bad cases of C. difficile currently.

But I don't think we can keep this at a very seriously level for long.

Let's face it, this is shitty science at its best (or worst .... )

Okay your turn.

drmoose
drmoose in reply to drmoose

or maybe this is a case where your shit really is better than my shit.

drmoose
drmoose in reply to drmoose

okay how 'bout this: Fecal Matter? We ain't got no Fecal Matter. We don't need no Fecal Matter. I don't have to show you any stinkin' Fecal Matter!

drmoose
drmoose in reply to drmoose

this shit is takin' us down the rabbit hole ....

Shooter1
Shooter1 in reply to drmoose

Preparation should be same as for colonoscopy. Flush it all down your rabbit hole and then refill.

Nalakrats
Nalakrats in reply to Shooter1

Like I said my microbiome is not for sale!

Nalakrats

Shooter1
Shooter1 in reply to Nalakrats

Once it hits the drain, it's probably free. Like your garbage can in the alley.

monte1111
monte1111 in reply to drmoose

I always wondered why Grandma's outhouse was a two seater.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to monte1111

😂

j-o-h-n
j-o-h-n in reply to drmoose

No shit!

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Sunday 01/10/2021 6:38 PM EST

Nalakrats
Nalakrats in reply to j-o-h-n

I thought you would have been more creative. Your the Joke Miester.

Nal.

TheTopBanana
TheTopBanana in reply to drmoose

What is the name of your Swiss doctor?

drmoose
drmoose in reply to TheTopBanana

Dr. Rainer Arendt, he runs a small clinic in Zürich, swissmedclinic.ch/. Speaks fluent english, also caters to international clients. Call the office at the web site telephone number (Switzerland is 6 hours ahead of East Coast time).

But I guess you gotta get to Zurich for the treatment. And to confirm some of the comments, he uses young, regularly tested "donors" for best results. And claims he has administered the treatment to himself several times!

I am still working through the mental - and financial - barriers ....

TheTopBanana
TheTopBanana in reply to drmoose

Thank you!! May I Ask: did he want to do it in combination with immunotherapy for the cancer or how did he present it?

drmoose
drmoose in reply to TheTopBanana

He has been offering it for a number of years as a way to generally improve your immune system, possible longevity, maybe even improving cardiovascular system. Of course all of this is really in the "non-mainstream" medicine just to be clear (except if you have C. Difficile and need this, and of course more evidence is developing that it may help against cancer e.g. the work cited here).

The way I evaluate treatments like this is first 1) possible risks, temporary / permanent 2) cost 3) some weighing of the (unreliable but still interesting) anecdotal evidence 4) do I understand at least the proposed mechanism as to why it may help.

In this case, I think it is a "low" risk procedure (in theory some risk of infection from the donor but this is screened for), however the cost is still high (north of 10k for a round of 3 treatments, at least in Switzerland). I certainly do not see clear convincing evidence as to what exactly causes it to help, there is a lot of hand-waving involved. Not to say it would not help, just part of the weighing of all considerations.

If it was "low-cost" (for me e.g. 1k$) I would probably just do it ... but so far I am holding off. Also I would first work on diet, fitness, weight/BMI, body fat, etc. (which I am doing ...) and also repeat the gut microbiome test to get a before and after.

But maybe (sorry cannot prevent going into joke mode) - it will turn out that the cure to cancer is just "we all just need better shit".

And I see a point in the future where your ranking on facebook or twitter is "has better shit" as a sign of virtue ...

Future politicians win elections by - literally - promising everyone "(free) better shit"

And both parties will argue "our shit is better than your shit"

omg I just realized we are in that world now ...

This will never end ....

CantChoose
CantChoose in reply to drmoose

The trick is to use very old donors with established colonies IMO.

You wasn't Uncle Ed from Minnesota's shit. That shit is good (and hasn't been groomed by Nestlé all its life).

It's actually fairly good science. While the procedure turns some folks off emotionally, it's been extremely successful curing C. Diff infection, and putting active ulcerative colitis into remission.

Not saying that Nalakrats' fecal matter stinks, but it's my understanding the best chance to avoid complications, and have the highest degree of success, is to obtain the poop from a young and healthy close family donor.

Nalakrats
Nalakrats in reply to garyi

Well I am not young and I am not a close relative---I do not think.

Nalakrats

Chask
Chask in reply to garyi

I developed C-Diff after my prostatectomy and defied all sorts of antibiotics. The infection specialist advised that it might be time to try a fecal implant, and when I asked who would be the donor, he gave my wife a very piercing stare.

As it happened the last attempt with gradual reducing of heavy duty antibiotics worked so I never had to take my wife’s sh!t.

j-o-h-n
j-o-h-n in reply to Chask

Come on now........... we all take a lot of shit from our wives....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Sunday 01/10/2021 6:59 PM EST

Nalakrats
Nalakrats in reply to j-o-h-n

Better!

Nal.

Scoofer33
Scoofer33 in reply to Chask

It was 2018 when I first learned of this general technique to restore a healthy gut biome. My nuclear medicine tech told me that the shit going in (hopefully, from a blood relative) smelled a whole lot better than the shit going out initially. He said that the C. Diff infection caused the fecal matter to reek like you couldn’t believe. Any wisdom to share on this aspect?

Chask
Chask in reply to Scoofer33

Can’t say I noticed that, but what I was passing was pretty near pure fluid and there was never a lot because I didn’t eat for several days, just felt like shit with a temp of 105. Once the most extreme symptoms passed, I think the smell and frequency was most affected by the anti biotics.

Scoofer33
Scoofer33 in reply to Chask

Wow, Chask, I can't believe your fever was 105 degrees! That's pretty serious territory there! My naturopath asked me to use VSL#3 to get my gut right. I used that until the company got bought out by another and the product became difficult to find... but I just checked and it's readily available again.

Chask
Chask in reply to Scoofer33

Yes it was pretty bad, I was hospitalized and in isolation for 2 weeks (longer than for my prostatectomy) and was pretty much out of it for the first week. The problem with C-Diff is that it can return, and is brought on by overuse of anti-biotics, so I am now very reluctant to take a-b’s unless absolutely essential. Ironically, the only way to treat C-Diff is with a-b’s which is why there is a high recurrence rate a few months after apparent cure. I believe there is something like an 8% fatality rate. Fecal transplants are a last resort and have proven very successful.

I feel very thankful that I was under the care of Dr Sanjaya Senanayake, an infection specialist who is now a bit of a media star in Australia consulting on Covid.

Hi Nal,Thank you for posting this article. Interesting read!

Here is a similar trial for Melanoma in Canada:

clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show...

Nalakrats
Nalakrats in reply to Hope59

Thanks Hope--everyone interested in Immunology, should give a read to your Clinicaltrials, suggestion.

Nalakrats

podsart
podsart in reply to Nalakrats

There are those that include certain fermented foods on a daily basis to improve the good/bad microbe ratio in the gut , to help restore a healthy and perhaps repair a leaky gut. Not as dramatic as a fecal transplant but perhaps useful as a slow incremental restorative or maintenance process.

tysig
tysig in reply to podsart

be nice to know what fermented foods are used...

j-o-h-n
j-o-h-n in reply to tysig

Actually, I don't give a damn......

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Sunday 01/10/2021 7:08 PM EST

Nalakrats
Nalakrats in reply to j-o-h-n

Ah Shit.

Nal.

podsart
podsart in reply to tysig

Sauerkraut is one

Nalakrats
Nalakrats in reply to podsart

This Technique, is not as equivalent to using 20 day fermented Sauerkraut or other probiotic, prebiotic intake. There are intrinsic values, from someone who had defended themselves from a form of cancer. These intrinsic values, are then passed on to a late stage cancer patient having the same cancer, to add immunology values, that came from the donor, that did not exist in the one receiving the implant. You cannot cure C-Dif, by diet. And the interesting thing is once there is a positive reaction, moving back to a previous treatment or adding a new one becomes additive, to saving a patient. Granted they are moving on to other cancers as I mentioned--and I believe the same results can be obtained as was done for Melanoma.

Nalakrats

Big thanks, a lot of health for you in the new year!

C'mon Nal, are you sure this isn't just a bunch of--well, you know...?

Nalakrats
Nalakrats in reply to dhccpa

No it is not S***---serious stuff.

Nalakrats

Promising..looks like I got this stinking disease 10 years too early.

"...my Fecal Matter is not up for donation, at this time!"

No Sh*t!

Thanks for this, Nal. Fascinating stuff.

Gives one another aspect in how we view cancer--not sure about Germline Inherited cancers, but this is fascinating, as you said.

Nal.

"In the process, the researchers eradicated the patients Microbiome[how this was done was not described]." --- Microbiome can be wiped out with oral antibiotics ..... it is easy so my GUESS is that is the most likely way they did this.

Nalakrats
Nalakrats in reply to rscic

Or they wiped the microbiome out thru Colonoscopy Techniques---using drugs with cancer patients who have a couple of months or weeks left to live might be harmful.

Nalakrats

rscic
rscic in reply to Nalakrats

Oral Anti-biotics would be easier than a Colonoscopy --- this is why my GUESS is they may have used oral anti-biotics .... UNLESS Colonoscopy was REQUIRED to implant the new Microbiome, if so both the elimination of the old microbiome & the implantation of the new microbiome might be able to be done in the same procedure (my GUESS is Colonoscopy is not required) ..... also, my GUESS is a Colonoscopy is more stressful on the patient vs oral anti-biotics ..... lots of GUESSING here .... I am obviously not "married" to this idea, it is just an exercise in logic ... happy to be wrong here.

Nalakrats
Nalakrats in reply to rscic

Yes it was done with a Colonoscopy!!!!

Nalakrats

Another (semi-serious) comment - there are a number of providers now doing a "gut microbiome" analysis - basically you send them a bit of stool sample, and they look at all the microbiome e.g. what is growing there and what percentage of each.

Super cool, probably important, but nobody knows how to interpret the results. However you can see if you are an "outlier" e.g. if your gut microbiome is different than the "average". However note that western diet tends to skew the microbiome in ways not yet understood (but expected to be non-optimal).

In any case, it probably leads back to the basics: don't smoke, eat healthy and avoid sugar, processed carbs, general crap food, exercise more, and sleep well. It turns out sugar and cheap carbs likely cause bad skews in your gut microbiome. This should not be a surprise...

thanks for sharing this Nalakrats ... valuable info !

sorry to Nal and all in advance, this is NOT personal, but I can't resist more jokes ....

So - if you are not willing to donate your shit, are must be implying:

- my shit is better than your shit

- I am not full of shit so I just don't have enough

- I would consider selling my shit to the highest bidder

- I am collecting my shit for the upcoming shit-show

- ...

Pick your favorite or add better ones 🤪

(I hope humor cures cancer and I also hope this is humorous ....)

Nalakrats
Nalakrats in reply to drmoose

I love the humor--I am many times not a serious man--especially on my winter vacation and fishing, in Florida, now---> this therapy is better than shit!

Nal.

j-o-h-n
j-o-h-n in reply to drmoose

I'll see you and raise you two lumps.......

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Monday 01/11/2021 8:30 PM EST

Nalakrats
Nalakrats in reply to j-o-h-n

Much better!

Nal

I grew up in Florida (a "real" native - a lot less developed than now) - south St. Pete - where are you when you are there? Parents are still living in the area so I am back there often, at least pre-covid when air travel worked ...

Nalakrats
Nalakrats in reply to drmoose

I am now in Ormond Beach just about 7 miles north of the Daytona Beach Pier---will be here until it is warm enough to go back to the mountains of N.C.

Nal.

HelloI hope they will succeed 100%.

R.George

Nalakrats
Nalakrats in reply to NOCanceros

Success occurs, many times, when other immunology techniques are followed after the Fecal Implant. These techniques start working after the Fecal Implant.

Nalakrats

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