Keto, plant based, Mediterranean, cycle them, standard American eat what you want?
If PCa is heterogenous and diet does play some kind of factor in cancer, cardiac heath, etc perhaps cycle? Or does it even matter what we do?
Diet: Keto, plant based, Mediterranean... - Advanced Prostate...
Diet
46 Replies
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Man..you are opening a pandoras box by bringing diet issue on our "Knowledge forum"
We have had heated debates about this issue in the past on this very forum.
There is a group of people, myself included who believe strongly that Plant based food, antioxidant,anti inflammatory herbs, roots, leaves and spices have a definite benefit . But then there is group which strongly believe that diet has nothing to do with PCa and has no effect.
My own positive experience of dietary habits and exercise will never let me believe the second point of view. I am big proponent of right diet and exercise. You can see my past posts which gives details of it.
in reply to LearnAll
Thanks. I'll look at your posts.
I was hoping for a heated discussion. I believe that diet plays a big role in setting the stage for cancer and other health issues. And the evidence is conclusive to me, that diet is important for mitigating existing cardiac disease. I also think exercise is critical. I hit the weights and the cardio, yoga, pilates, at least 7 hours a week.
LearnAll in reply to
My inflammation parameters like CRP, LDH, Fibrinogen, ESR are all time best.
My Lipid profile were never better in my last 40 years. My cardiologist commented "great job" after doing special tests such as Threadmil, doppler etc. HbA1C 5.7
My BMI got low even while I was on Lupron (BMI is 23 now) with plenty of energy to walk 5 miles each day.
in reply to LearnAll
Mine are also at all time bests (except fibrinogen - I've tried to get that tested 3 times and each time there has been some snafu).
Hi there, are you willing to share your list anti-inflammatory and antioxidant (and other if relevant) herbs, roots, leaves, and spices? Thanks!!! Please forgive me if you've listed them somewhere else and I missed them. I'm trying to get a better handle on what works for people.
in reply to Barbara345
No problem. They are in the supplements post on my blog.
Barbara345 in reply to
Thank you!
We need to explore our options
There are many health benefits in a diet that promotes balance and nutrition
Prior to my diagnosis as a bodybuilder protein a d carbs played a major role in my development
Salads or veg became a garnish
I have turned that upside down pretty much
Less carbs my main protein base is fish legumes beans and peas
A lot more ruffage
I feel much better I gave more energy a d most of all I am responding to treatment
I never stopped training through it all 2 days after chemo I am back in my gym doing resistance training I strongly believe these practices brought me through
Loving my rebuild it's amazing right now
Those studies targeted heart disease. Here we are focused on prostate cancer. I became a vegetarian ( laterPescatarian) a few days after diagnosis. Close to the Mediterranean diet. I stopped eating red meat and poultry because of the hormones fed domestic animals in the US. Prostate cancer is a hormone fueled cancer so all of the hormones fed to domestic animals to make them grow bigger fatter faster can't be good for Pca.
in reply to Magnus1964
These particular studies focused on heart disease. However, more men with PCa die of heart disease than cancer. And there are some sketchy studies that indicate diet is important for cancer prevention and treatment.
On keto I don't plan on doing much of any dairy or red meat (probably zero).
One of those studies did show a significant reduction in cancer and cardiovascular deaths, using the Mediterranean diet plus nuts. There are no details of the type cancer.
Frequency of Nut Consumption and Mortality Risk in the PREDIMED Nutrition Intervention Trial
Marta Guasch-Ferré 1 , Mònica Bulló, Miguel Ángel Martínez-González, Emilio Ros, Dolores Corella, Ramon Estruch, Montserrat Fitó, Fernando Arós, Julia Wärnberg, Miquel Fiol, José Lapetra, Ernest Vinyoles, Rosa Maria Lamuela-Raventós, Lluís Serra-Majem, Xavier Pintó, Valentina Ruiz-Gutiérrez, Josep Basora, Jordi Salas-Salvadó, PREDIMED study group
Collaborators, Affiliations expand
PMID: 23866098 PMCID: PMC3738153 DOI: 10.1186/1741-7015-11-164
Free PMC article
Full-text links Cite
Abstract
Background: Prospective studies in non-Mediterranean populations have consistently related increasing nut consumption to lower coronary heart disease mortality. A small protective effect on all-cause and cancer mortality has also been suggested. To examine the association between frequency of nut consumption and mortality in individuals at high cardiovascular risk from Spain, a Mediterranean country with a relatively high average nut intake per person.
Methods: We evaluated 7,216 men and women aged 55 to 80 years randomized to 1 of 3 interventions (Mediterranean diets supplemented with nuts or olive oil and control diet) in the PREDIMED ('PREvención con DIeta MEDiterránea') study. Nut consumption was assessed at baseline and mortality was ascertained by medical records and linkage to the National Death Index. Multivariable-adjusted Cox regression and multivariable analyses with generalized estimating equation models were used to assess the association between yearly repeated measurements of nut consumption and mortality.
Results: During a median follow-up of 4.8 years, 323 total deaths, 81 cardiovascular deaths and 130 cancer deaths occurred. Nut consumption was associated with a significantly reduced risk of all-cause mortality (P for trend<0.05, all). Compared to non-consumers, subjects consuming nuts>3 servings/week (32% of the cohort) had a 39% lower mortality risk (hazard ratio (HR) 0.61; 95% CI 0.45 to 0.83). A similar protective effect against cardiovascular and cancer mortality was observed. Participants allocated to the Mediterranean diet with nuts group who consumed nuts>3 servings/week at baseline had the lowest total mortality risk (HR 0.37; 95% CI 0.22 to 0.66).
Conclusions: Increased frequency of nut consumption was associated with a significantly reduced risk of mortality in a Mediterranean population at high cardiovascular risk.Please see related commentary: biomedcentral.com/1741-7015....
Trial registration: Clinicaltrials.gov. International Standard Randomized Controlled Trial Number (ISRCTN): 35739639. Registration date: 5 October 2005.
Lots of ways to decrease your chances of health problems developing in the future if you don't already have them. Diet is big part of that. Fat couch potatoes have more problems. All beef BBQ and eggs and bacon with sweat rolls etc can cause health problems for anybody. For us as aPc patients we need to eat healthy. Now my definition of eat healthy my be different than yours but practice moderation. Watch what you eat and that's about all we can do now that we are living with a death sentence hanging over our heads. That said, I still eat grass fed beef, wild caught fish and shrimp and more vegetables. Hope it will help me last longer. Now watch all the vegan folks jump in and say I am full of it, but each of us is different as each of our cancers and treatments are different. Best of luck to you.
That,s why I was saying to RSH1 to avoid the topic of diet. The people who love to eat animal body parts jump with anger and hostility if you touch their eating habit subject.
Plant based diet ,herbs,spices are doing good job in my case...I do not need to convince anyone else.
in reply to LearnAll
Lol! I can handle anger and hostility and I don't think I'm bringing news to the table that some people don't eat vegan. Personally I prefer peaceful thoughts but I can't control the emotions of others.
To be frank, if it comes to a choice between the life of an animal vs. my life and my son having a father, it's a no-brainer for me.
Part of a healthy diet is keeping a healthy mind. That's why tonight I will have some hot fudge on my Handels's Graham Central Station ice cream.
I never felt better (physically AND mentally) than when I did a low-protein, CR keto diet last spring/summer. But once I "fell off" of it, it has been difficult to get it going again. I just LOVE (am addicted to?) so many high-carb foods, including fruits and tomatoes and beans along with the less wholesome carbs.
I do believe keto can significantly change your metabolic milieu and your gut microbiome, and I do believe that cancer is, to some degree, a disorder of metabolism. I think a low-dairy and low-meat keto diet makes good sense, intuitively if not scientifically.
in reply to noahware
Unfortunately I am addicted to high carb foods also. Frozen fruit blended in a yohanas type machine to make an ice cream consistency. Yum!
I do like peanut butter, guac, and salmon though so keto isn't too bad I guess. Still miss that frozen fruit.
I loaded on sulforaphanes today with a cooked, spicy cauliflower. Its wrapped with tomato paste (lycopene) Turmeric paste ( curcumin) and Ginger (gingeroles) red onions (quercetin) with a touch of Cayenne pepper, black cumin seeds, peppercorns (peperines) and mustard seed oil.
All antioxidants, anti inflammatory and anti cancer packed dynamite...no wonder I am feeling great. Proof: C RP still 0.2
Nalakrats, such a muted response....LOL
Yes it matters what we do more so now than ever
There are foods that feed cancer and it's been proven by many
The alkaline diet is best for those of us diagnosed with cancer
in reply to Bodysculpture
Urine PH meter is a good way to track. If it is low, potassium bicarb, magnesium bicarb, sodium bicarb (watch to make sure you aren't getting too much). Works in hours. My PH was around 5.5. Got it very quickly to 7.2. On Keto it drops a lot. This morning it was 5.9. Now 6.3.
This is the one I use: smile.amazon.com/gp/product...
Hope you've gone for slow cooking. I'm on my way over.....
No thanks, I've been a pescatarian for so long, I don't think I have the enzymes to digest meat anymore. I remember being at a wedding year ago and had too much wine and champagne. I saw some stuffed mushrooms with sausage and could not resist. I spent the night with my head in the big white wishing well.
I wouldn't call myself a party animal. On special occasions I over due it. Happy for you that you eat what you wish.
My wife and I are both pescatarian. she has another handicap of being gluten intolerant. Try finding a restaurant that will satisfy both of our limitations.
My diet is everything in moderation. I have modified my diet somewhat since my diagnosis, mostly thanks to my wife. She eats very healthy because of her rheumatoid arthritis. So I do eat more fruits and veggies, but I still eat pasta, chicken, grass fed beef on occasion and some eggs and dairy. I also have to have my sweets at night(small portions). Just had my labs done. Everything was in the "low" range. Plus AC1 - 5.2 C-RP <.1 BMI -21.
This way of eating keeps me happy!
What are the alternative therapies would you be using?
I worked at diet changes pretty hard over last 25yrs.
Didn't stop major heart problems and bypass surgery 20yrs ago, didn't stop major stage4 Dx mPCa 2yrs ago.
Forums full of anechdotal stories both ways along with plenty of supporting stories.
Eat reasonably (if you get indigestion your body says change), keep weight reasonable, exercise more than you can, roll back the pain, and sleep as needed.
Enjoy the best QOL you can till you can't.
2Dee
I have posted before that I participated in the study that looked at the impact of diet and lifestyle on prostate cancer led by Gordon Saxe, MD/PhD at UCSD...I think it was about 2006 but would have to look. It was a relatively small study but showed either absolute or rate of change slowing of PSA in men with recurrent prostate cancer when they switched to a macrobiotic diet and adopted some lifestyle changes (yoga, meditation, exercise). You can look it up if you'd like. I was diagnosed March 2003, PSA 32, Gleason 3+4. RP, Radiation and Androgen Deprivation. My PSA started to rise after all of it and I attacked it with diet, lifestyle, and positive attitude. Today my PSA is <0.01 and hope that it stays that way for a long time. Now focused on my mild hypertension...ugh! Good luck to you.
in reply to Gary64
I also have mild hypertension. I started taking losartin. Some NIH research concludes that it is good for PCa. Coincidentally it was my cardiologists first choice. Dropped my bp from 140/85 to 125/75 (still not ideal but a lot better). And statins or red rice yeast are very effective at lowering my lipids. Cholesterol was over 200 for almost my entire life and now it is around 140-160.
My diet is no longer so strict but almost everything we eat is fresh and healthy. I'm 5'7", 175 lbs and am focused on losing 25 lbs which I think would improve the hypertension. I also need to increase my walking. I have two Siberian huskies who have volunteered to help me with that. We are still adjusting the dosage of hypertension medication. Currently I am using 20mg HCTZ, 30mg Lisinopril and 20mg Atorvastin. My cholesterol is borderline high but my primary care doc thought it should be part of the mix. My mom died after complications related to stroke and she had aFib so I'm sensitive about that. I wore a Zio heart patch for the past two weeks and have not received the results but I don't have any symptoms of irregular heartbeat. I also bought a Kardia 6L and do a 30 second ECG every morning that has shown no irregularities.
When I wanted to lose some pounds, I did calorie restriction and keto. But I think the biggest help was going for a 4-6 hour eating window (usually 10am to 4 pm or so). The hardest thing for me to give up is "pm eating" that can be a huge calorie load.... big dinner, big glasses of wine or beer, big dessert and then "midnight snack." When I do give that up, I feel a lot better.
Good. Baking soda is cheap. Seems to increase ph quickly and effectively. But I don't know if it might interfere with chemo.
Ohhh. Yummm please share your recipe 💕
Chocolate chip ice cream (two scoops)...
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Sunday 06/07/2020 7:41 PM DST
Diet is important. Read "How to Starve Cancer (without starving yourself)" by Jane McLelland. Read "Cancer Secrets" by Jonathan Stegall, M.D. Both books were published in the past two years. Jane McLelland's book is about curing her own cancer -- complicated and utterly fascinating. Dr. Stegall's book has a succinct chapter on diet for cancer patients.
Normally your contributions to matters are quite detailed and specific. I wasn't expecting such a limited response and redirection to your prior info on this subject...lOL
Why doesn't urine ph show anything useful? Could be a coincidence but over the last year I've tested my CMP diox status at least a dozen times and it correlates very well with my urine ph. Could be coincidence but it seems like urine ph is acting as a marker for diox.
Thank for the run down. My research doctor said the same thing about Apalutamide. Next time I'll have to put his feet to the fire on that.
Horse radish , inexpensive Ginseng. Eastern European delight.
Just an fyi: I don't buy the body alkalinity thing.
It's carbon diox in the blood. My urine ph correlates strongly with it. NIH and my oncologist both think that PCa survival correlates with carbon diox status. My onc thinks it is causal. I don't know but baking soda costs me a penny or so a day and my diet is very low on sodium. Baking soda is part sodium.
Mine were low. My onc told me to take some baking soda. They went up and now are close to the upper end of normal.
excuse me, but what is Janes protocol? thanks
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