This prospective study observed 5,182 men from 1986 to 2012. The conclusion is:
„Alcohol drinkers had a lower risk of lethal prostate cancer“
and
„Compared with none, 15 to 30 g/d of total alcohol after prostate cancer diagnosis was associated with a lower risk of death (HR, 0.71 [95% CI, 0.50 to 1.00])„.
This means alcohol drinkers lower their risk of lethal PCa by 29%!
Glass of red wine for sure!
I will raise a glass of red wine to that! Thanks for posting!
No, unfortunately it only shows an association between men who had that drinking habit and their risk of lethal PC. It does not mean that one can lower one's risk of lethal PC by drinking alcohol. Are men who drink that amount more likely to do some other healthy thing?
yes, they're likely to have more sex!
Hello Tall Allen, your frequent reminders of the value of evidence based medicine and cautions about the differences between associations/correlations and actual direct linkages are always valued and appreciated. Many of us desperate characters need to be reminded every so often. Thank you again. Cheers, Phil
Some might remember my numerous threads on the SAM cycle. Vitamin B12 is a cofactor in the conversion of homocysteine back to methionine. Folate/folic acid is the common methyl donor. Vitamin B12 insufficiency and hyperhomocysteinemia are associated with protection against aggressive PCa. The probable cause is the withholding of methyl from PCa cells. PCa cells tend to be hypermethylated & this is associated with the silencing of tumor suppressor genes.
Alcohol consumption is associated with vitamin B12 insufficiency and hyperhomocysteinemia too [1]. & so the association between alcohol & protection against PCa mortality has plausibility.
Notice that I used association/associated 4 times. One has to be careful when posting.
As a drinker, I am pleased to see the new study.
"the Health Professionals Follow-Up Study ... included 47,568 cancer-free men. Our analysis of alcohol intake among men with prostate cancer was restricted to 5,182 men diagnosed with nonmetastatic prostate cancer during follow-up."
It's a large study. The countless papers generated from this database over the years have been very useful to me. IMO, it would be foolish to ignore such associations. Few of us have enough time remaining to wait for "proof".
-Patrick
[1] ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/155...
Hello Patrick, I always learn something new from you, which has been very helpful and appreciated over the last several years. I believe many on this forum would readily call you Professor O’Shea.
I stopped taking the occasional multivitamin (containing folate) and mineral supplement when my B12 rose to above the median. Even when I was deficient and taking metformin homocysteine levels were normal. The effect of metformin has been discussed on this forum - it lowers B12 as well. Cheers, Phil
Patrick, did you see my post on the relationship between cobalt and B12? My recent blood tests showed my B12 at 2,000, which is double the high end of the normal level. My cobalt is virtually zero. It said .001 but didn't show at all on the bar graph. It appears that my body is not absorbing the B12 very much because I'm not taking any supplements that have B12 in them. Getting cobalt into the normal range is supposed to have some real benefits. You're about the only person I can think of that might now the answers to this problem. I didn't get any usable responses when I posted the question.
thanks, and I hope you're doing well.
george
Hi George,
I somehow missed your post, but have caught up with it & the comments.
My own situation more than a dozen years ago, was that my hair showed no cobalt at all & my homocystein was elevated. That was enough for my integrative doc to suggest B12 injections. I had been taking a B12 supplement, but seemingly not taking it up in the gut. The injections seemrd to work because my PCa lapped up the methyl that suddenly became available & the PSA went up. I stopped the injections & I really don't know my B12 status now. I should get it checked because when symptoms occur the damage cannot be reversed. Thanks!
I have no idea why your body would accumulate so much B12. I see that high levels might be due to liver issues (or kidney & diabetes), but I don't where utilization would breakdown in your situation. The liver will store up to 3 mg B12 (enough for 5 years) - perhaps that isn't happening? I don't think that you need cobalt.
One symptom of B12 not being available is a breakdown of the folate cycle, where B12 is a cofactor. This would cause a build-up of homocysteine.
A natural way of treating the liver is to take milk thistle. e.g.:
lifeextension.com/search#q=...
I wish I could be more useful.
Best, -Patrick
thanks Patrick, I am taking milk thistle. Tests say my liver is doing fine. I may need to do another B12 test to see if the result is the same. I did read articles saying that the cobalt would help absorb the B12 but like you said, maybe we dont want the B12 absorbed due to the cancer growth. Cobalt can help reduce or stabilize arterialschlorosis plaque as well. My kidneys test well and no prediabetes etc. thanks for your ideas. I appreciate it.
So I was deficient on B12 and started taking it and found at least at my first blood test an increase in RBC and Hemoglobin which has been low since radiation. Am I reading this right that I am trading mild anemia for aggressive pc by increasing my B12?
IMO we should avoid outright deficiency and use only he lowest of B12 doses to achieve that.
In European countries & others that did not adopt the FDA mandate for 'enriching' grain products with folic acid, men have easier control over folate intake - a better way to thwart the SAM cycle. i.e. no need to gamble with B12.
-Patrick
I don't eat enriched anything and reduced meat intake drastically. Myblast test was 342 after the start of the supplement and there's a note onthe test that below 400 could have hematological effects. I assume they meant negative effects. So I get your talking about higher amounts in the blood. I will research the SAM cycle. Thanks.
In vino veritas, Pliny The Elder: Back in AD 77. He did not published his study.
Hmm... Ok, I get it (did study Latin in HS).
However, what did Pliny the younger say?
PARTY ON!!
Only kidding. I do my homework!
"Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus, best known as Pliny the Younger, was a successful Roman lawyer prosecuting corruption, government official (including in the treasury), and author of famous letters that paint an important picture of the Roman world around his lifetime."
Think about it!
I have no idea why I made this reply. ADT??
Best
Well association or lowered risk or not I intend to continue with an average moderate red wine intake of one glass 4 days in 7. No evidence that this can do much harm and has other benefits imo
Cheapo California Organic Red with no sulfites added for me. ;0)
So, is it the alcohol or the resveratrol in the red wine that’s key?
I believe it relates to gut bacteria.
The good bacteria is 'supported' by the red wine.
I have read numerous times that resveratrol does next to nothing for PCa.
Thanks
So it’s been only the alcohol that’s key element
Interesting, dr Myers believed strongly in resveratrol; he always did a lot of research for all supplements he advised to take
A lot of claims have been made about resveratrol.
I supplemented with it for awhile, until I discovered that it made no significant difference in PCa outcomes.
This is consistent with many other supplements that have NO effect on certain types of cancers.
Beware of the snake oil salesmen.
Note that I take many supplements - some are related to PCa and others with arthritis or insomnia.
I keep an open mind about them but have learned enough to not get suckered by every claim of benefit(s).
Of course, I might be wrong - wouldn't be the first time .....
My motto is a "martini a day is, my way" I think Sinatra would agree.🍸🍸🤠
My great grandmother lived to 94 riding her 3 wheeler and drinking a martini a day 😁
My grandmother lived to 106 and didn't drink alcohol at all.
Studies have shown that Mormon men in Cali (UCLA study) live ten years longer than other men and Mormon women live 8 years longer.
Study didn't include metastatic pca. I didn't notice a definition of moderate alcohol use. I'm thinking Sinatra had more than a martini a day? What I get from this is that Pliny the Drunkard lived longer than Pliny the Elder or Pliny the Younger.
I''ll drink to that...
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Tuesday 02/04/2020 9:08 PM EST
Brilliant where's the wine lol
My B12 was low on a blood test and I started taking it hoping to address my anemia. Now I am unsure if this is a poor choice for my cancer. This supplement stuff is all so very confusing and so hard to proceed with any confidence in my opinion.
MTHFR gene mutation in 30-40% of world population. Related to B12 and Folate (NOT folic acid). I can't go into this as it is very complicated but it is related to processing of B12 and Folate, and then other drugs and supplements thru the system. Depending on whether you have the 677 (heart related diseases ) or 1298 version (everything else!!) or even both and whether it is 'homozygous' or 'heterozygous', it complicates even more what you have.
Discovered this when trying to figure out what was wrong with my mother, endoscopy anesthesia (69 yo and working as nurse) forced her brain forward in fast motion to Lewy Body dementia (one of the worst dementias). Still alive but definitely after 10 years maybe in her final years? Even after a broken femur and surgery Mar 7, 2020 she still is going.
So, be glad you at least have your minds, able to eat, walk, run, drive your car, love your loved ones and KNOW them. I have grieved for at least 8 years (she knows me not for at least 6 years. My father even more so. With CV we have not seen her in person in months, and not sure how much longer that will be the 'rule'. Sorry, just a sad day for me.
Hell! I knew this all the time.🍸🍸🤠
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