I'm just curious....my partner had prostate cancer over 11 years ago. Gleason 7. Had radiation. His diet is "anything goes"....especially if it's sweet. His PSA has stayed 0.3 the entire time (give or take a point). What does that mean? He loves ribs...he loves pot roast (even more)...French fries...eggs...chocolate fudge sundaes...Reuben Sandwiches, spinach (especially if it's creamed)....etc.
He's not had any special diet or supplement...just the radiation 11 years ago. Are the people that are talking about keeping their "cancer under control" talking about people like him...
or are they talking about people like me...who went to stage 4 right out of the gate? and they are controlling the PSA with diet? I just read an older article about diet and I have the two of us to compare...he eats my same diet (plus more sweets) and my PSA is not behaving....HIS, on the other hand...since radiation has been perfect.
what's it all about (Alfie)?
gJohn
p.s. photo is just an old Antique sofa we own...some sofas last 120 years...some don't. Is it their diet or their destiny? LOL.
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This is EXACTLY what’s bothering me about this whole diet thing. You explained it perfectly. I Can’t seem to have a clue about what the heck is going on. NO one knows, you hear lots and lots of different opnions and research to support each one’s opnion. I am so frustrated about this because I REALLY want to do the right thing to control the rising psa but I do NOT know what the right thing is.
the moral of the story (if there is one) ....is that everybody's different and everyone has a destiny. We can sculpt it ....but have to work with what we are given. (I think)
It's interesting to see how differently my partner and my cancer paths have gone...he started out Gleason 7...I started out Gleason 6....
He's doing great 11 years later...
I'm doing pretty great (all things considered) but I jumped right into Stage 4 after treatment...he jumped into...
no Lupron, no chemo...no nothing AND eating whatever he pleases..and he's doing GREAT ! ! !
p.s.
it is interesting because our diets have been VERY similar (almost identical) for the 42 years we've been together.
Same here. I arguably eat healthier than my wife and definitely exercise more, yet her cholesterol numbers have always been better. After my diagnosis, our diets changed. Her cholesterol improved, mine didn't. Sigh.
Oh definitely. There's always the 100 year old guy on the news who credits smoking and alcoholism for killing off any pathogens before they killed him.
Here's the bottom line -- what is good for the heart is also good for the prostate. Don't get too complicated about what people say about their PSA staying below 1 or 0.6 even they eat like normal people, like a big steak without veggies, eggs, dairy products like milk, cheese, whiskey, etc. One size does not fit all. What you eat is what you are. Stay on a healthy course -- Good diet and do exercise seven days a week. On top of all these, take some cancer-fighting spices, like ginger, turmeric and reishi mushroom powder.
The futile debate about diet is because of "All or None' "Black and White" thinking process.
In life, most things happen in grey zone and are multifactorial.
Nobody is saying that Healthy diet alone can cure all prostate cancer. The treatment one requires is based on individual case based on aggressiveness, co-morbidity, genetics and stage of the disease.
Healthy diet of course plays a role...By keeping you less obese and reducing your chances of Diabetes, High blood pressure, high cholesterol, Arthritis and other obesity related problems.
Healthy diet has anti inflammatory effect which is now proven to be at the core of prostate cancer. Healthy diet has anti oxidants to boost your cancer fighting immunity.
Its appalling to read that so many people are "anti-healthy diet" for no logical reason.
Prostate cancer needs to be treated with all modalities as needed ...there is no one magic cure ! And every individual's cancer will respond differently to interventions because prostate cancer is not one entity. .it is heterogeneous and has different varieties.
there is no bigger sacrifice than sacrifice of ones life. I am ready to eat rocks if it helps my cancer fight. I want to sacrifice anything to live for my loved ones.
To greatjohn and all... The sacrifice is all in your mind. 99% dark chocolate used to taste awful until I got used to it. Turmeric was also weird before added some other healthy stuff and made a great tasting drink I can now taste of the finger and its okay. There are many more good outcomes of eating heathy. Lets face given the choice and you are able, would you rather look great (which makes you feel great) or not look great? Would you rather feel great than not.
The thing is for me when I talk to myself, which is basically a simple definition of thinking and affirm what I am, I become what I think, what I eat and what I want to be.
That's why we are who and what we are. Thats what we believe and hey that's okay as long as you are truly really happy. Who gives a shit of how we get there.
'if you don't know where you're going any road will get you there'!
People need 3 things in life...
1. Someone to believe in.
2. Something to believe in.
3. Something to believe in.
Exercise of any form makes me feel good, the healthier i perceive the food to be the better it tastes.
All the conditioned goodies come by way of gifts and most if not all have added sugar Aaaargh the boogie man of PCa
We are what we condition ourselves to be.
There are many perceived good and bad foods on earth... The common thread of we are certainly others cannot see different is so so true.
Have 2020 vision and see what others cannot see. Ha off the top of head head, oh which I need to shave... Bye love to all whatever you think.
I don't know. Maybe his radiation hit right on the cancer and yours didnt or yours is radiation resistant and his was sensitive to radiation. I've thought about my cancer a lot but one think I didnt think much about was, why didn't all the radiation I received (20 sessions IMRT, and high dose brachytherapy) do any good. It just made the psa speed up much faster. I suppose it's radiation resistant but maybe they didn't hit the spot that is still alive now. Pisses me off but I have no way of knowing and the oncologists dont even venture a guess.
Everyone manifests disease differently. We all have genetic predispositions that play a role in how our bodies respond to cancer/disease and prescribed therapies/remedies. Environment, diet, behavior, habits also play important roles in how we manifest disease and respond to prescribed therapies.
You don’t appear to metabolize/utilize sugar and insulin as efficiently as your partner does. For this reason, you must work harder to help your body fight the cancer. Have you tried using naturally fermented exogenous keytones?
A ketogenic diet will theoretically starve the cancer cells in your body, as cancer cells are mutated cells that can only burn glucose/glucagon as their sole fuel source.
All of the other 14 trillion healthy cells in your body can (and prefer to) utilize Keytone bodies (derived from burning fat in your body instead of sugar and carbs) as fuel. There are a host of other healthy benefits you derive from obtaining and maintaining nutritional ketosis: reduced inflammation, Improved gut biome, stronger immune system, lower BP, to name a few....
NOTE: A ketogenic diet is very difficult to obtain/maintain. For this reason, I have successfully implemented the practice of administering naturally fermented exogenous ketones to automatically achieve nutritional ketosis, guaranteed in less than 60 minutes…Every time.
The company our practitioners trust because they have 9 issued international patents and 12 more patents pending on their proprietary natural fermentation process that creates the only bio-identical exogenous key tones legally on the market is Prüvit n8vst8.challenge.com
What is your PC story? Do you live with PC, or are you just here to hawk your wares?
This is a forum for people who are fighting for their lives and seeking support from others in a similar situation. Sales pitches are, for the most part, unwelcome.
I was on a “ strict” keto diet for 18 years before I was diagnosed with stage 4 metastatic PCa, initial psa of 1400.
In my case , for sure , keto did not prevent me from having a hardcore case of terminal cancer. In fact I often wonder if my keto diet somehow had a hand in the severity of my original dx.
I’m now off the keto regimen and my ( along with adt therapy ) psa is undetectable extending my life bit by bit.
In my case, my experience suggests that once you have prostrate cancer , diet alone probably will not stop it, and it’s even likely a strict keto diet in particular may have contributed to it’s undesirable qualities.
This is not scientific , just my own personal real life observation and first hand experience, for sure each and every one of us will be different.
To be fair, my keto diet did return my high blood pressure back to normal and change my mild diabetes back to normal making it possible to quit taking metformin as well. On my keto diet I did not need bp or bg meds at all. Nevertheless, all that healthy crap did not prevent me from contracting a nasty death sentence case of stage 4 prostate cancer. For me, at least, there doesn’t seem to be much interaction between my diet and my cancer , none at all. It certainly doesn’t hurt anyone to live healthy, but probably sticking with medical research proven methods of treatment for your cancer would be anyone’s first choice primary line of defense. A healthy diet , maybe with certain supplements, as a beneficial supportive role in your personal care. As always talk with your medical care team before making any changes or choices related to stalling your stage 4 PCa. Sometimes , unusual diets and or supplements may not mesh well with type of treatment you are currently receiving, it’s always best to be sure and not cheat yourself out of days , weeks or worse that you may not have had to sacrifice.
Well, if you ever want to get rid of the couch, I'll take it off your hands, it's a thing of beauty. You make some great points: over the years I've given up dairy, refined sugar, read meat, high fats, you name it, I've tried it. I've kept logs so I could detect patterns- there were none! Sometimes I wonder if all I've done is to deprive myself of the things that give me pleasure. Fortunately, I'm not a foodie, so it's no great sacrifice.
Compared to the effectiveness of the treatment and the drugs, I suspect diet is about 2-3% of the story....
So, I may allow myself some Christmas pudding this year!
p.s. re. the couch. We have had it for about 40 of our 42 years together....so I'm a bit attached to it...LOL. I've never seen another quite like it. I did find the original it was based on...an actual Thomas Chippendale that was up for auction. This is just a c. 1890 very well done copy ...the original was estimated at 2.5 to 2.75 million dollars. Damn...why couldn't I have found an original way back then...(we became antiques dealers shortly after we bought this sofa)
p.p.s. every time I see your name ....crocodile shoes...I think of a pair of red Italian crocodile shoes that I had through the 90's and into the 21st century. I wore them at trade shows in Las Vegas every year and boy were they a hit! (trade show was for our other business a Movie Theater Equipment company.)
Haaaaay .... croc shoes are great ... especially if they are bright red leather 5” stilettos .... just say’in. Hard to find quality tho ..in size 14 extra wide ... yayahahahaya.
I think that’s a fainting couch gj ..... meaning you’d probably faint if I laid down on it and those legs started to wobble yayahahahaya. ( and they surely would ). Probably make it an instant futon convertible. 👍👍👍👍
Sounds like my life. Today is gym day . Every day is 2 fairly long walks per day....made a big pot of 3 bean soup with extra veggies yesterday. Life is beautiful.
3 bean soup? How about some, "Sweat Off the Top of Your Head Chili"? It has mushrooms in it. Some ciabatta, garlic bread made with olive oil rubbed on it, fresh garlic and garlic powder liberally dusted on it. All organic of course. Easy and quick opening two cans to begin. Amy's vegan chili, some red kidney beans, spaghetti sauce, a good squeeze of ketchup, a handful each of mushrooms, green and red peppers, red onion---and CAYENNE!
A little olive oil in the pan first, cook the mushrooms while slicing the rest of the ingredients which are added all at once then the can of chili on top followed by the kidney beans, spaghetti sauce and ketchup and cayenne. let the cans sit for a minute or two on the vegetables before stirring. The garlic bread goes in the toaster and some of the raw garlic is readying, letting it's allicin reach it's potency to eat. Adjust the cayenne, adding it until the chili is deliciously "tolerable". The peppers and onion should still have some crunch.
Love the sofa analogy. Hate the over simplification of complicated things.
My father ate a daily pound of bacon, smoked (5 packs) daily. Drank heavily. Done with all of the above now, in his 80s.
My husband, vegetarian meditator. Healthiest stage4 ever. My dad will long outlive my husband in any likely scenario, given what we know.
Life is a game of random chance. Control is an illusion.
And, Analyzing one’s diet implies one is responsible for their rouge cell division. Which is kind of obsurd. I get it, there are known risk factors for cancer (smoking= much greater 7x risk of lung cancer)
I don’t like the diet shaming related to cancer.
And we continue to have a healthy diet because I do believe it will help my husband to survive treatment longer.
Wishing you all the best. You sound like an excellent caregiver. Your husband having that feeling of care is a big part of the healing for him I'm sure.
There is evidence that cancer survivors that eat healthily and exercise regularly are less likely to relapse and live longer than those that adopt or continue a couch potato existence after treatment.
But this is a statistical thing, it does not say a lot about individual patients.
Increasingly we know that not all cancers are the same with prostate cancer being a very heterogeneous example that is poorly classified by Gleason Score.
Most low scores are not very aggressive but suddenly up pops one that breaks all the rules.
So some patients are lucky and others are less so.
John. I’m like your partner, my dietitian told me when I started chemo just eat anything I could stand to eat as the cancer would make its own sugar. My diet is simple very little beef especially rare, lots of chicken and pork, Dailey veggies and my pie and ice cream. I carry a pocket full of candy with me every day, never had a sweet tooth until the monster took over. PSA has been <0.05 since chemo. So I guess my diet or lack of is doing me ok 😜😜. Fighting to monster every day 🙏🙏🙏
My oncologist asked me to eat healthy foods but that he has not found a diet that helps prostate cancer. He said to try and be happy and keep a good attitude about life. He considered that to be more important than diet. Exercise is recommended, but I have heart disease and kidney disease, so everyone is different. Right now my cancer is in remission. My you and your friend have a long life ahead!
Here's my two cents I've said it before we all have an expiration date on us with or without PC so why not enjoy everyday like it's the last. I eat, drink anything I want. I stay active when I'm tired I rest . I think that with all the medication, needles, tests that I've been put through and still endure if I want a sundae then by God it will be a double chocolate walnut with extra syrup and whipped cream. I'll probably die with an empty sundae boat next to me. Never give up never surrender. Leo
Imho diet is all about keeping proper weight in order to preclude cardiovascular problems , help keep excessive strain off of your spine and maintain a positive attitude. Exercise is also necessary particularly if you’re on ADT. Whether or not this has anything to do with controlling cancer is anyone’s guess.
There are diets for healthy people that can lower your chances of "getting" cancer and diets for those who already have cancer. The two are pretty much the same. No meats, low carbs, low dairy and no sweets.
I had a roommate years ago that ate what I cooked for me, he gained 10 pounds, it was a low fat due to family history, go figure. We are all different so diet is a small part, our dna dictates alot.
Timothy McVeigh, the American terrorist behind the Oklahoma City bombing, was put to death in Indiana by lethal injection at the age of 33. He was sentenced to death for 168 counts of murder.
For his last meal, McVeigh requested two pints of mint chocolate chip ice cream.
I had something happen a few days ago. I went to a restaurant for something that I love...and I've been there many time for it. It was served...it looked beautiful...I tasted almost nothing.
I have read a lot about "super tasters"...and I think I am in that category (or close). I eat food and if it's good....it's really good.
I believe that day perhaps I was tasting food the way "normal" people taste food. It didn't taste bad...didn't hurt to chew....didn't turn my stomach....it just tasted "okay".
Normally .....even a photograph of food sends an explosion of joy in my brain. Tasting the dish I was talking about (whole fried snapper) was something that felt better...all over my body than anything else. In the moment I am lost. It overloads my sensory nerves.
If you normally taste like I did that day when things just tasted "okay") I can see how it would be easy to "give up"....or even call not eating bacon "a sacrifice".....but, for me....what food does in my mouth (and I love to cook and create this explosion of sensations) is better than anything else.
I hear people on here lamenting about loosing "their libido"....or their "erections". I couldn't possibly care less....to me it's the BEST thing about Lupron.
I worried so much about losing my taste on Chemo....thank god, I didn't...
but, alas, if I have to do Chemo again (and this time she says for 10 sessions) and I lose my orgasmic sense of taste....then it will not be a big deal to give up any foods....
Kirkland Himalayan Pink Salt Potato Chips ( the best in the world)
a Thick slice of medium rare prime rib with horseradish sauce
yummy, runny over medium eggs with bacon and toast
Moros(a Cuban dish I make with rice cooked in black beans)
hamburgers. (any hamburgers...I've never met one I didn't like)
baby back ribs
French fries
just to name of a few of the things....that "won't mean a thing to me"
You are making me hungry. Hoping food still gets your taste buds to stand at attention. Sorry your life now, just 2 years later, is such a drag. Best of luck with your new immuno treatments...Doug , Way up here in North Idaho..
When I was in prison breaking rocks I thought that if I ate one I would be a rockstar...I ate one and the staff sent me to see the prison shrink who determined that I was off my rocker
and suggested I always drink my alcoholic beverages on the rocks....To this day I think the shrink had rocks in his head.....
nice sofa... but missing the plastic covering.......
He sometimes has urgency for peeing...that's about it.
I agree that every one is different.
But since you are comparing:
Your friend, is he on this group? Is he anxious about his cancer, how much of his time is he thinking about it?
I think diet is important, but much more try to distress.
The mind is number one.
If you are worried about diet and you eat badly it will be twice badly.
If you eat well thinking you are doing good it will help you twice.
My husband, stage 4 Gleason 9 no therapy had at beginning great results with sport, diet, supplements and cannabis.
His PSA went from 17.9 to 12.
Then he had other worries (heart issues not related) and did not anymore believe in his natural cure (he thought he would cure after a certain amount of cannabis) and it went again all back and even higher.
Also the too strict diet stressed him.
Now he is a little more relaxed about diet, (and I still have to learn not to think or say anything if he is just eating a sweet once) decided to do tests only every 3 months, meditates, and he is doing really well.
Maybe too extreme, because still on no therapy, but till here even doctors believe some Mets are not Mets because they don't grow.
So: try to find something that helps you be more relaxed, maybe a pause from this groupe (as does Nalakrats) from time to time, do your best of diet but don't exaggerate and you will have more fun.
Maybe your vacations (with all that came along) is one reason your PSA stopped rising.
I don't think your friends diet is helping him, but maybe a more relaxed attitude.
I'm just guessing.... as we know every one is different!
well...LOL...as I am my own "caregiver" as well as his...perhaps...I'm a better caregiver for him than myself.....I'm also caregiver for a former employee/friend (mental disability) who lives with us...so I'm cooking, cleaning, organizing and budgeting for a small "assisted living home"...with myself not have much time for assistance...I think that's why I'm doing so well. I don't have time to think about me much...just, when reading the diets, and with the people that I've gotten to know on here...it really does seem like it's "the luck of the draw" more than anything else.
Hope everything keeps going well for your husband(it does seem like he's definitely doing something right)...I feel like so big breakthrough treatments might be right around the corner!
To greatjohn and all... The sacrifice is all in your mind. 99% dark chocolate used to taste awful until I got used to it. Turmeric was also weird before added some other healthy stuff and made a great tasting drink I can now taste of the finger and its okay. There are many more good outcomes of eating heathy. Lets face given the choice and you are able, would you rather look great (which makes you feel great) or not look great? Would you rather feel great than not.
The thing is for me when I talk to myself, which is basically a simple definition of thinking and affirm what I am, I become what I think, what I eat and what I want to be.
That's why we are who and what we are. Thats what we believe and hey that's okay as long as you are truly really happy. Who gives a shit of how we get there.
'if you don't know where you're going any road will get you there'!
People need 3 things in life...
1. Someone to believe in.
2. Something to believe in.
3. Something to believe in.
Exercise of any form makes me feel good, the healthier i perceive the food to be the better it tastes.
All the conditioned goodies come by way of gifts and most if not all have added sugar Aaaargh the boogie man of PCa
We are what we condition ourselves to be.
There are many perceived good and bad foods on earth... The common thread of we are certainly others cannot see different is so so true.
Have 2020 vision and see what others cannot see. Ha off the top of head head, oh which I need to shave...
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